I feel absolutely horrible! Please tell me what you think

[Anonymous]

That test was fascinating. Thanks to whomever posted the link. I was surprised at the results. It was a little bit confusing, but I guess that is by design.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:to 18:00 --how is this going to damage the firm? In some interview will the interviewee say, "by the way, I heard at one of your picnics, one of the wives thought some kids at the party didn't belong there, is that true? Is that really going to come up?

Not 18:00. There is a grapevine, word just gets around. No one will say anything about the picnic on an interview, but the firms that have no "picnic stories" will be the ones people will want to work for. Some studies have suggested that even whites prefer not to work for the "picnic story" firms.

18:00 here. Exactly right, quoted PP. I still recall some of the "picnic stories," "wet t-shirt contest stories," etc. etc. from my law school days, and I remember the firms associated with them. Nearly 20 years later. Law firms scramble to woo the best and brightest students, esp. minority candidates, and this kind of stuff certainly doesn't help.

[Anonymous]

So OP, how did your husband react to your story?

I still remember the firms known for taking summers out to strip clubs for lunch...

[Anonymous]

What kind of fallout do you expect there would be? She apologized--what would the mom do now? And how would that help her at her job? Wouldn't she only cause problems for herself at work? What is she going to say, "Dave's wife didn't know those were my kids and thought they weren't supposed to be at the picnic" Nobody knows if this was race-based, but unfortunately the kids did feel that way, but it may not have been the intention of the partner's wife who made the mistake. She just made a mistake-where would it really go from there?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I'm not the PP you're referring to but . . . I just don't believe it doesn't happen to all kids. Sorry. I was certainly called out for my naughty behavior -real or perceived- when I was a child. [Note: I live in a diverse neighborhood and have friends of all colors, genders, sexual orientation, etc. My child is in a daycare with all colors, ethnicities, etc. So, I'm not in a "white bubble" as some will undoubtedly allege (i.e., the Bethesda thread a few weeks back).] I am just going to say the unpopular thing and not doubt will be flamed: I think some races tend to be oversensitive in situations like this. I don't blame anyone for being that way given the history of racism in this country. But I do think it is unreasonable in a situation like this where there is nothing to support a charge of racism / prejudice other than the color of the parties involved. I think that this situation was not racism. Or prejudice. It is a woman with some control issues who should have left well enough alone. This is being blown way out of proportion.

Flame away . . .

OP saw two black kids at a (probably) mostly white party for families of people who all work together. The kids stood out because they were black. She notidced them because they looked like the didn't belong there.

If there had been some white kids who she hadn't met before she NEVER would have told them "This is a private party, don't touch that ice cream."

She would have said what she should have said "Hi!" Or even, if the ice cream was her responsibility, and the kids were young -- "Does you mom/dad know you are taking ice cream? I just want to be sure it's ok --some kids have food allergies -- which one is she/he? I'd like to meet them."

Why didn't she say that to the black kids at the party? Because she jumped to the conclusion that they did NOT belong there. And instead of just letting it go, she intervened: "This is a private party, kids; this stuff isn't for you." What possible reason could she have had for doing so? To teach these interlopers some manners?

I don't think OP is prejudiced necessarily, but she knows that race was a factor. That's why she mentioned their race. She NOTICED them because of their race, and she assumed they were not part of the party, because they stood out, and she figured, she would have noticed if there were any black people there.

No one is saying this is an example of racism/prejudice. AT least I'm not. But it was an egrigious eorri in etiquitte, with some racial underpinnings; and a second apology is in order. SOmething along the lines of "Hey, Sarah, my wife still feels horrible about her mistake with the kids and the ice cream on THursday. Just wanted you to know that."

Yes, the two kids stood out because they were "the only brown skinned" ones there (their words, I believe OP said). If they had been two white kids at an all AA party, the same thing would have happened. Apologizing twice is just making it worse. It's like saying, "Just wanted to make sure you know I have nothing against blacks."

I don't think the OP meant in her post that she felt terrible that she did something racist. I think she felt terrible that she could be perceived as having done something racist. Big difference.

Agree wholeheartedly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here-I need some therapy-someone please tell me if what I did was absolutely awful? Should I tell my husband? I am so embarrassed.

what good will come of it if you tell your husband? You made a mistake. So what, what if they were not part of the party? How would you know. I think in the future unless you are the partly police, mind your owe business. I would forget all about this. Things happen. Doesn't mean you are an awful or racist person. You certainly don't need a "test" to tell you if you are racist.

She should tell her husband because it's HIS co-worker. Did you miss that part? Also, I'm wondering why you would tell OP to forget about this as if she was the person that was offended. It's not about her. It's about the kids that feel like crap because they were singled out for being "brown". And their mother having to find a way to explain why someone would assume they don't belong. OP doesn't work at the law firm. How could she possibly know all the spouses and their children? You would forget about this because you don't have the decency to put yourself in the other mother's shoes. She's the one we should be thinking about here.

Thank you, PP. OP, pls listen to the posters who are encouraging you to tell your husband. He HAS to know and assess what, if, anything he should do in response.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What kind of fallout do you expect there would be? She apologized--what would the mom do now? And how would that help her at her job? Wouldn't she only cause problems for herself at work? What is she going to say, "Dave's wife didn't know those were my kids and thought they weren't supposed to be at the picnic" Nobody knows if this was race-based, but unfortunately the kids did feel that way, but it may not have been the intention of the partner's wife who made the mistake. She just made a mistake-where would it really go from there?

Look, it's been said before that there's a grapevine. Which was infamous when I was in school, and probably ten thousand times bigger and more efficient now thanks to the Internet. For better or worse, IMO law students don't have much hard information to diffrentiate one firm from another, so a lot of their decisionmaking comes down to "culture" or "fit." In other words, perception. They ask themselves "Where will I be happy?" Or, better put, "what people wouldn't I mind working 18 hours a day, 6 days a week with?" And based on the answers to those questions, they choose where they'll interview and eventually hopefully work.

Even with the lousy job market, there's huge competition for top students from top ranked schools. So after law students leave their summer stints they go back to their schools and talk about the good and the bad of their firm experience. Gossip? Yes, it is. But other students rely on it, and the stories sometimes take on lives of their own. As such, recruiting committees don't want their firm's name associated with anything that could even possibly smell faintly of discriminatory conduct, whether it was intentional, or an honest mistake, or something else entirely.

I wouldn't expect that there would be any fallout caused directly by the co-worker, though you never can tell.

Signed,

Someone who spent WAY too much time on a big firm recruiting committee, worrying about the "fallout" of seemingly minor incidents.

[Anonymous]

In a way, it's kind of sad that one minority discriminates against another assuming the first has had it happen to her before.

[Anonymous]

OP,
Are you out there?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In a way, it's kind of sad that one minority discriminates against another assuming the first has had it happen to her before.

Look, the reality is that some of the worst racists in this country have been white ethnic minorities (Jews, Poles, Italians), Asians, Persians, Latinos. That is not lost on black people. We are well aware.
On the other hand many from the groups mentioned can be very fair or unbiased.

[Anonymous]

OP, have you left the building?

[Anonymous]

The bottom line is that it's pretty sad that you felt you had to confront two kids regarding TWO icecreams? Couldn't you have just let that go and just let the kids have ice cream private party or not?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In a way, it's kind of sad that one minority discriminates against another assuming the first has had it happen to her before.

Look, the reality is that some of the worst racists in this country have been white ethnic minorities (Jews, Poles, Italians), Asians, Persians, Latinos. That is not lost on black people. We are well aware.
On the other hand many from the groups mentioned can be very fair or unbiased.

This is ignorant. There are racists everywhere, every race. It's a human thing, not a white thing. How do you explain untouchables (racism w/in a race)?

[Anonymous]

OP -- not sure if you are still reading, but would you have felt guilty if the boys were white?

[Anonymous]

I think that either OP's husband was not so happy to hear her story or that she decided not to tell him and doesn't want to share that info.