Oldest kids in class do better, even through college - NPR

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Yes, exactly. Money would solve the problem, it's just that we don't want to spend what it would take.

There's not enough money to solve the problem. Funny, some people talk about how "trickle down" economics doesn't work, but they are convinced that "trickle down" cash does.

How much money does not solving the problem cost?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The cutoffs should be hard and fast, with the possible exception of major disabilities.

Because every kid of a particular age has exactly the same maturity level as every other kid of that age?

Because all kids have the same abilities and needs?

Because one size can and should fit all?

Absent documented learning disabilities, I think it's better to have only a one year spread in age in any given class.
It is "hard" enough for a kid just making the cutoff with a Sept bday to have kids in the class who are almost a year older with Oct bdays who missed the cutoff but now that Sept bday kid also has kids 14-15 months older who were held back.
This isn't a scenario where it's "I chose what's best for my own kid" - your decision affects other kids as well.
I try not to hate the player but I hate the game.

[Anonymous]

How much money does not solving the problem cost?

Throwing money at it without success does nothing. No one is saying don't spend money, it just needs to be done wisely. And, more is not necessarily better of it is not working. Then, it is just wasteful.

How does money solve a problem in this case? How would you spend it? Where would you start? Specific examples of how you would solve a problem if you had the funds. Not just-put money here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The cutoffs should be hard and fast, with the possible exception of major disabilities.

Because every kid of a particular age has exactly the same maturity level as every other kid of that age?

Because all kids have the same abilities and needs?

Because one size can and should fit all?

Absent documented learning disabilities, I think it's better to have only a one year spread in age in any given class.
It is "hard" enough for a kid just making the cutoff with a Sept bday to have kids in the class who are almost a year older with Oct bdays who missed the cutoff but now that Sept bday kid also has kids 14-15 months older who were held back.
This isn't a scenario where it's "I chose what's best for my own kid" - your decision affects other kids as well.
I try not to hate the player but I hate the game.

Even if the schools enforced a one year age range, some kids are going to be way more mature than other kids. And sometimes the more mature kid is chronologically younger than the less mature kid. You'll find a range of maturity levels in a class no matter how confined the age range in the class is.

My kids spent time in classes that combined two grade levels, and those years were some of their best school experiences. A wider age difference was actually better than a narrower one because there was a better likelihood of finding their own peeps in that situation. I have kids at either end of the age spectrum. It was great to have the combined classes where they had a wide variety of kids to be friends with.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

How much money does not solving the problem cost?

Throwing money at it without success does nothing. No one is saying don't spend money, it just needs to be done wisely. And, more is not necessarily better of it is not working. Then, it is just wasteful.

How does money solve a problem in this case? How would you spend it? Where would you start? Specific examples of how you would solve a problem if you had the funds. Not just-put money here.

http://hcz.org/our-programs/

[Anonymous]

There is just no way there is enough money to make something like HCZ happen everywhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There is just no way there is enough money to make something like HCZ happen everywhere.

What is the cost of not doing it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

+1. Very few people in this country understand the blacklisting public schools have gotten in the name of privatization, when the core problem has always been, and will always be, poverty. No matter how much we test kids, cut recess, or fire teachers, the rich kids will always do better than the poor ones. But it's easier to pretend poverty doesn't exist than work to make an equal society, especially in a society as individualistic as ours.

NP here but I agree that the issue is our country expects public schools to solve all the problems of poverty.

Actually I think the issue is that our country claims to expect public schools to solve all the problems of poverty. If our country actually expected this, our country would provide public schools with a lot more resources, and a wider range of resources. And our country certainly wouldn't allow public school funding to be primarily based on local property taxes from areas that are segregated by income.

Title One schools get more more but it's up to the schools themselves to decide how that money is spent. No amount of money in the world can change the mindset of poverty. I teach in one of these schools and the pressure to be everything for these kids is intense. The only reason I don't burn out is summer vacation. If there was no long break from it, I couldn't do it. I have my own kids and I cannot teach and be the savior of other people's children too. Nobody expects you to do that in UMC schools. You are just expected to teach. I can't be someone's mother, family, counselor, psychologist, college counselor, etc. That's why schools like mine have such high turnover. This kind of work is for young people who don't have other time commitments. I stay because I get paid significantly more and I need the money for tuition for my kids.

???? You get paid more to teach in a title 1 school? I've never heard of such a thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:having a kid repeat k absent a teacher's recommendation is flat out WEIRD.

It's smart. Wish I had thought of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

JEB Stuart High School was named in 1958. Also in 1958 in Virginia - "massive resistance". Was that a coincidence?

It was named because he had a camp at the location of the school. Is that so hard to understand?

Schools across the south have been named for famous people for years. It was not rare. It may have been based on romanticism, but the South revered these people. Gone with the Wind, etc.
Same as the Scots revering their ancestors.

Just because someone yells "massive resistance" does not mean that was the motive.

Well, the white people in the South did. Particularly around the times that the black people in the South were vocal about civil rights. Purely coincidence, of course.

No these people were revered by southerners consistently since the end of the Civil War.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

JEB Stuart High School was named in 1958. Also in 1958 in Virginia - "massive resistance". Was that a coincidence?

It was named because he had a camp at the location of the school. Is that so hard to understand?

Schools across the south have been named for famous people for years. It was not rare. It may have been based on romanticism, but the South revered these people. Gone with the Wind, etc.
Same as the Scots revering their ancestors.

Just because someone yells "massive resistance" does not mean that was the motive.

Well, the white people in the South did. Particularly around the times that the black people in the South were vocal about civil rights. Purely coincidence, of course.

No these people were revered by southerners consistently since the end of the Civil War.

Including black southerners? Black southerners revered Confederate generals?

Also, while white southerners may have consistently revered Confederate generals since the end of the Civil War, they didn't consistently put up monuments to Confederate generals and name things after Confederate generals. Those things happened during specific periods of times.

[Anonymous]

The thing I don't get about this as a phenomenon is that the kids eventually figure it out and they start to think of the oldest kids in class as the "dumb" ones because even an 8 year old knows that a 10 year old should be doing high level work.

So yeah your 10 year old might be the best reader in class but the other kids are aware that that kid shouldn't be in their class in the first place. Kids are much cannier than we give them credit for. They're not fooled by this kind of gaming of the system.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The thing I don't get about this as a phenomenon is that the kids eventually figure it out and they start to think of the oldest kids in class as the "dumb" ones because even an 8 year old knows that a 10 year old should be doing high level work.

So yeah your 10 year old might be the best reader in class but the other kids are aware that that kid shouldn't be in their class in the first place. Kids are much cannier than we give them credit for. They're not fooled by this kind of gaming of the system.

Huh. I've never heard such a comment from either of my kids. And if I did, I would talk to them about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The thing I don't get about this as a phenomenon is that the kids eventually figure it out and they start to think of the oldest kids in class as the "dumb" ones because even an 8 year old knows that a 10 year old should be doing high level work.

So yeah your 10 year old might be the best reader in class but the other kids are aware that that kid shouldn't be in their class in the first place. Kids are much cannier than we give them credit for. They're not fooled by this kind of gaming of the system.

Huh. I've never heard such a comment from either of my kids. And if I did, I would talk to them about it.

NP. Don't you remember thinking this when you were a kid about the oldest kids? I do.

My kid said something like this to me recently and I didn't know what to say because I know red shirting is more common now and I don't think it's appropriate. So I said something like "I'm not sure why so and so is older. It's none of our business anyway."

But the truth is, a 10 year should be doing more advanced reading than an 8 year old. That is simply reality. You won't be able to convince kids otherwise no matter what you say.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The thing I don't get about this as a phenomenon is that the kids eventually figure it out and they start to think of the oldest kids in class as the "dumb" ones because even an 8 year old knows that a 10 year old should be doing high level work.

So yeah your 10 year old might be the best reader in class but the other kids are aware that that kid shouldn't be in their class in the first place. Kids are much cannier than we give them credit for. They're not fooled by this kind of gaming of the system.

Huh. I've never heard such a comment from either of my kids. And if I did, I would talk to them about it.

I would be interested to know what you say. I don't know what to say, especially since I have a summer bday one who I sent on time. Mine has said just out of curiosity - "so and so in my grade is one year older than me and even older than X who is one grade ahead of us!"