Should a Teacher be required to Say the pledge

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

No. The opposite of sad. We live in a country where we are not required to profess anything. We need not say Heil Hitler, we need not sign oaths of loyalty, we need not pledge allegiance to anything.

You don't get it. The "sad" part is that they do not WANT to say it. That is very sad that they do not have allegiance to our country.

[phone]

the point is that typically, unless there is a strong and deep personal reason for NOT saying the pledge, most people (like a lot of the teachers on here) don't make it a big deal. It seems like it's a lot more effort to protest the saying of the pledge then to just say it. And THAT's what's sad. I honestly couldn't care less and don't base someone's allegiance on whether they say the pledge, but I think it's sad that so many people in this country would take a stand on something like opposing an undivided country and allegiance to it. What happened to us? this thread and the arguments within it are good examples of how proud some people are of not wanting to support our country, proud to not be part of a country and definitely proud to say "screw you America."

That's what's sad - and the pp said it more succinctly than I.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

No. The opposite of sad. We live in a country where we are not required to profess anything. We need not say Heil Hitler, we need not sign oaths of loyalty, we need not pledge allegiance to anything.

You don't get it. The "sad" part is that they do not WANT to say it. That is very sad that they do not have allegiance to our country.

[phone]

the point is that typically, unless there is a strong and deep personal reason for NOT saying the pledge, most people (like a lot of the teachers on here) don't make it a big deal. It seems like it's a lot more effort to protest the saying of the pledge then to just say it. And THAT's what's sad. I honestly couldn't care less and don't base someone's allegiance on whether they say the pledge, but I think it's sad that so many people in this country would take a stand on something like opposing an undivided country and allegiance to it. What happened to us? this thread and the arguments within it are good examples of how proud some people are of not wanting to support our country, proud to not be part of a country and definitely proud to say "screw you America."

That's what's sad - and the pp said it more succinctly than I.

What's sad is you don't understand that people aren't saying, "screw you America" if they don't say the pledge. There are myriad reasons why someone might not, and Jehovah's Witnesses have been used here to clarify one of those reasons (Idolatry and their allegiance is to God). People who don't say the pledge, do support our country, and our Constitution. Equating stating the pledge to supporting the country and vice-verse is what is sad.

This thread is not evidence of something "happening to us;" it is merely enlightening for many to understand why it is a right not to say it. And again, it has been a right for quite some time, so really nothing terribly new.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

No. The opposite of sad. We live in a country where we are not required to profess anything. We need not say Heil Hitler, we need not sign oaths of loyalty, we need not pledge allegiance to anything.

You don't get it. The "sad" part is that they do not WANT to say it. That is very sad that they do not have allegiance to our country.

[phone]

the point is that typically, unless there is a strong and deep personal reason for NOT saying the pledge, most people (like a lot of the teachers on here) don't make it a big deal. It seems like it's a lot more effort to protest the saying of the pledge then to just say it. And THAT's what's sad. I honestly couldn't care less and don't base someone's allegiance on whether they say the pledge, but I think it's sad that so many people in this country would take a stand on something like opposing an undivided country and allegiance to it. What happened to us? this thread and the arguments within it are good examples of how proud some people are of not wanting to support our country, proud to not be part of a country and definitely proud to say "screw you America."

That's what's sad - and the pp said it more succinctly than I.

What's sad is you don't understand that people aren't saying, "screw you America" if they don't say the pledge. There are myriad reasons why someone might not, and Jehovah's Witnesses have been used here to clarify one of those reasons (Idolatry and their allegiance is to God). People who don't say the pledge, do support our country, and our Constitution. Equating stating the pledge to supporting the country and vice-verse is what is sad.

This thread is not evidence of something "happening to us;" it is merely enlightening for many to understand why it is a right not to say it. And again, it has been a right for quite some time, so really nothing terribly new.

Exactly.

I think it's very UNAmerican to expect people to say it...or even to expect that they would want to say it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

No. The opposite of sad. We live in a country where we are not required to profess anything. We need not say Heil Hitler, we need not sign oaths of loyalty, we need not pledge allegiance to anything.

You don't get it. The "sad" part is that they do not WANT to say it. That is very sad that they do not have allegiance to our country.

Standing and reciting something is proof of nothing aside from the ability to stand and recite something. It has nothing to do with allegiance to our country.

The people you've seen protesting since Donald Trump's election? THAT'S allegiance to our country. That is demonstrating a love for our country and a willingness to fight against threats, foreign and domestic. THAT'S how you do it, not standing up in a classroom day after day saying a few words so often that they become virtually meaningless.

+1

Saying the pledge is not a litmus test for patriotism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

No. The opposite of sad. We live in a country where we are not required to profess anything. We need not say Heil Hitler, we need not sign oaths of loyalty, we need not pledge allegiance to anything.

You don't get it. The "sad" part is that they do not WANT to say it. That is very sad that they do not have allegiance to our country.

[phone]

the point is that typically, unless there is a strong and deep personal reason for NOT saying the pledge, most people (like a lot of the teachers on here) don't make it a big deal. It seems like it's a lot more effort to protest the saying of the pledge then to just say it. And THAT's what's sad. I honestly couldn't care less and don't base someone's allegiance on whether they say the pledge, but I think it's sad that so many people in this country would take a stand on something like opposing an undivided country and allegiance to it. What happened to us? this thread and the arguments within it are good examples of how proud some people are of not wanting to support our country, proud to not be part of a country and definitely proud to say "screw you America."

That's what's sad - and the pp said it more succinctly than I.

Actually, what's sad is going with the flow and not thinking about what you are saying, whether you want to say it, and what its meaning is.

I love my country and express that love through going to marches, writing to and calling my elected representatives, donating to the ACLU, and voting. All of this takes a lot more work and has a lot more meaning to me than saying the pledge of allegiance does.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

No. The opposite of sad. We live in a country where we are not required to profess anything. We need not say Heil Hitler, we need not sign oaths of loyalty, we need not pledge allegiance to anything.

You don't get it. The "sad" part is that they do not WANT to say it. That is very sad that they do not have allegiance to our country.

[phone]

the point is that typically, unless there is a strong and deep personal reason for NOT saying the pledge, most people (like a lot of the teachers on here) don't make it a big deal. It seems like it's a lot more effort to protest the saying of the pledge then to just say it. And THAT's what's sad. I honestly couldn't care less and don't base someone's allegiance on whether they say the pledge, but I think it's sad that so many people in this country would take a stand on something like opposing an undivided country and allegiance to it. What happened to us? this thread and the arguments within it are good examples of how proud some people are of not wanting to support our country, proud to not be part of a country and definitely proud to say "screw you America."

That's what's sad - and the pp said it more succinctly than I.

What's sad is you don't understand that people aren't saying, "screw you America" if they don't say the pledge. There are myriad reasons why someone might not, and Jehovah's Witnesses have been used here to clarify one of those reasons (Idolatry and their allegiance is to God). People who don't say the pledge, do support our country, and our Constitution. Equating stating the pledge to supporting the country and vice-verse is what is sad.

This thread is not evidence of something "happening to us;" it is merely enlightening for many to understand why it is a right not to say it. And again, it has been a right for quite some time, so really nothing terribly new.

I'm sorry you are having trouble reading and comprehending my post. I'll try and help you:

What's sad is you don't understand that people aren't saying, "screw you America" if they don't say the pledge.

what I actually said:

I honestly couldn't care less and don't base someone's allegiance on whether they say the pledge,

you say:

There are myriad reasons why someone might not, and Jehovah's Witnesses have been used here to clarify one of those reasons (Idolatry and their allegiance is to God).

What I actually said:

unless there is a strong and deep personal reason for NOT saying the pledge,

My apologies for not spelling out some reasons like Jehovah's witnesses, etc.


You post:

People who don't say the pledge, do support our country, and our Constitution. Equating stating the pledge to supporting the country and vice-verse is what is sad.

Again, to remind you of what I said:

and don't base someone's allegiance on whether they say the pledge

,

to respond to you on this

This thread is not evidence of something "happening to us;" it is merely enlightening for many to understand why it is a right not to say it. And again, it has been a right for quite some time, so really nothing terribly new

You missed my point. I was making a deeper observation - not about whether someone says the pledge or not (do I need to repeat that line again?) - but that as a country we are so divided and seem to care less and less about being a unified country and that some people would rather fight every little argument to death to be divided instead of choosing the bigger issues (like we are seeing with the marches, protests, etc. And again - in MY OPINION, unless there's a deeper reason (and BTW, I don't get to choose what that reason is - only the person who chooses not to pledge gets to decides what's a "deeper" reason) saying the pledge isn't a big deal and shouldn't be such an outrage.

[Anonymous]

Unless there is a deeper reason, saying -- or not saying -- the pledge isn't a big deal and shouldn't be such an outrage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

No. The opposite of sad. We live in a country where we are not required to profess anything. We need not say Heil Hitler, we need not sign oaths of loyalty, we need not pledge allegiance to anything.

You don't get it. The "sad" part is that they do not WANT to say it. That is very sad that they do not have allegiance to our country.

[phone]

the point is that typically, unless there is a strong and deep personal reason for NOT saying the pledge, most people (like a lot of the teachers on here) don't make it a big deal. It seems like it's a lot more effort to protest the saying of the pledge then to just say it. And THAT's what's sad. I honestly couldn't care less and don't base someone's allegiance on whether they say the pledge, but I think it's sad that so many people in this country would take a stand on something like opposing an undivided country and allegiance to it. What happened to us? this thread and the arguments within it are good examples of how proud some people are of not wanting to support our country, proud to not be part of a country and definitely proud to say "screw you America."

That's what's sad - and the pp said it more succinctly than I.

Actually, what's sad is going with the flow and not thinking about what you are saying, whether you want to say it, and what its meaning is.

I love my country and express that love through going to marches, writing to and calling my elected representatives, donating to the ACLU, and voting. All of this takes a lot more work and has a lot more meaning to me than saying the pledge of allegiance does.

I'm the poster you're quoting and I agree. But there's a difference between choosing to just stay quiet and not saying it (like a lot of the teachers on here) and protesting to high hell about not saying it and fighting about not saying it for pages and pages

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

No. The opposite of sad. We live in a country where we are not required to profess anything. We need not say Heil Hitler, we need not sign oaths of loyalty, we need not pledge allegiance to anything.

Y/quote]


[phone]

the point is that typically, unless there is a strong and deep personal reason for NOT saying the pledge, most people (like a lot of the teachers on here) don't make it a big deal. It seems like it's a lot more effort to protest the saying of the pledge then to just say it. And THAT's what's sad. I honestly couldn't care less and don't base someone's allegiance on whether they say the pledge, but I think it's sad that so many people in this country would take a stand on something like opposing an undivided country and allegiance to it. What happened to us? [b]this thread and the arguments within it are good examples of how proud some people are of not wanting to support our country, proud to not be part of a country and definitely proud to say "screw you America."
[/b]
That's what's sad - and the pp said it more succinctly than I.

What's sad is you don't understand that people aren't saying, "screw you America" if they don't say the pledge. There are myriad reasons why someone might not, and Jehovah's Witnesses have been used here to clarify one of those reasons (Idolatry and their allegiance is to God). People who don't say the pledge, do support our country, and our Constitution. Equating stating the pledge to supporting the country and vice-verse is what is sad.

This thread is not evidence of something "happening to us;" it is merely enlightening for many to understand why it is a right not to say it. And again, it has been a right for quite some time, so really nothing terribly new.

I'm sorry you are having trouble reading and comprehending my post. I'll try and help you:

What's sad is you don't understand that people aren't saying, "screw you America" if they don't say the pledge.

what I actually said:

I honestly couldn't care less and don't base someone's allegiance on whether they say the pledge,

you say:

There are myriad reasons why someone might not, and Jehovah's Witnesses have been used here to clarify one of those reasons (Idolatry and their allegiance is to God).

What I actually said:

unless there is a strong and deep personal reason for NOT saying the pledge,

My apologies for not spelling out some reasons like Jehovah's witnesses, etc.


You post:

People who don't say the pledge, do support our country, and our Constitution. Equating stating the pledge to supporting the country and vice-verse is what is sad.

Again, to remind you of what I said:

and don't base someone's allegiance on whether they say the pledge

,

to respond to you on this

This thread is not evidence of something "happening to us;" it is merely enlightening for many to understand why it is a right not to say it. And again, it has been a right for quite some time, so really nothing terribly new

You missed my point. I was making a deeper observation - not about whether someone says the pledge or not (do I need to repeat that line again?) - but that as a country we are so divided and seem to care less and less about being a unified country and that some people would rather fight every little argument to death to be divided instead of choosing the bigger issues (like we are seeing with the marches, protests, etc. And again - in MY OPINION, unless there's a deeper reason (and BTW, I don't get to choose what that reason is - only the person who chooses not to pledge gets to decides what's a "deeper" reason) saying the pledge isn't a big deal and shouldn't be such an outrage.

Some of your quotes seem to be taken from other comments you may have written? I was basing it on the one paragraph. Your quote dealing with "screw America" wasn't what you actually wrote, you had written that people were "definitely proud to say screw America"

I am not going to go point by point though, because my response was based on your paragraph, not your "deeper observation" that wasn't terribly evident. I do agree that saying the pledge isn't a big deal, thus not saying it shouldn't be causing all of the outrage on this thread.

There are deep divides in this country; apparently misunderstanding the rights given to us is one of those. And by misunderstanding I don't mean you don't understand the right, I mean you and others are equating not saying the pledge to mean more than it means. It is simply a right based on religion etc., to not say it period. All other deeper observations, thoughts, conclusions are moot. It is patriotic to abide by our Constitution.

[Anonymous]

OP IS HERE.. High School teacher teaches (Business/Ted Ed clsses)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Unless there is a deeper reason, saying -- or not saying -- the pledge isn't a big deal and shouldn't be such an outrage.

I just think is funyy how if we protest doing Obama tenure we were racist

[Anonymous]

I'd like to offer a slightly different perspective. I'm from a country where overt displays of nationalism in this way evoke memories of fascism and also domestic terrorism. I am incredibly uncomfortable with the idea of any sort of pledge of allegiance both because I think mindless patriotism and nationalism has a long negative history but also from a religious perspective. I am not a Jehovah's Witness but the only type of pledge I would be comfortable making would be a religious one. I think there's a cultural element here too - when you grow up in an environment without this practice, it seems very strange.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unless there is a deeper reason, saying -- or not saying -- the pledge isn't a big deal and shouldn't be such an outrage.

I just think is funyy how if we protest doing Obama tenure we were racist

Wrong thread. This one is about the pledge of allegiance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP IS HERE.. High School teacher teaches (Business/Ted Ed clsses)

Presumably he's familiar with the Constitution and Bill of Rughts. Maybe he can loan you a copy so you are better informed of what it means to be part of the US.

[Anonymous]

Ok, this thread has convinced me that so many people in this country have no clue about what makes this country great. One major thing is our freedom of expression. I've decided that as a protest to all the people saying this teacher doesn't have a right to exercise one of our fundamental constitutional rights, I will no longer say the pledge, nor will I put my hand over my heart for the national anthem. There is no litmus test for patriotism. My loyalty is to this country, not someone else's warped view of what our country should be or some bastardized view of our Constitution.