MERLD does exist!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Ok, now you guys are really freaking me out. I am the one who has a son with a mild receptive language delay meaning it is slightly lower than his expressive but within normal/average range - is that an indicator of an ID?

Not necessarily but many times certain things can go together like red hair and freckles. But no point in freaking out, especially not by what you read here.

Well, given that redheads alkmost always have freckles, I am not sure this makes me feel any better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thanks. It is in normal range so I refuse to freak further. I am putting down the freaking out for now.

IQ is in the normal range? Then stop freaking out. Outcomes are generally good for kids with IQ in the normal range (or better). They may have some lingering deficits as adults, but they do okay.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not all kids with ASD need or get ABA. ABA has NEVER been recommended for my DS with ASD/ADHD by anyone.

You are right however that speech therapy for a MERLD child will look very different than speech therapy for a child whose deficit is solely pragmatics. DS attends a language immersion school, Mandarin/English, has excellent language skills and gets pragmatic speech therapy and social skills classes. He would not be in a dual language program if he had issues with receptive and expressive language in English.

Also, it is hard to imagine a child who has issues with receptive and expressive language NOT having pragmatic speech issues.

It may be hard for you to imagine, but the MERLD kids I know do not have pragmatic speech issues. They have expressive issues that may impact social things but its not the same thing as what you are thinking. And, my MERLD kid could do an immersion school, as he's done foreign language at his school for two years/no more issues than other kids. You are very much overgeneralizing and making it based of ADHD/ASD, not a language disorder.

What is MERLD, then? What do the receptive issues mean - nothing? I understand that a kid with expressive delays only could do that - but how is a kid who cannot understand language having no issues udnerstanding language? WT everloving F, OP? If there is nothing wrong with your kid, awesome, move along. If there is, join us over here in the land where things are wrong and unpredictable but get off your high horse, for the love of.

Some of this disagreement seems to be a misunderstanding of the technical terms involved. Receptive language is understanding the vocubulary and grammar of speech. Expressive language is using vocabulary and grammar. Pragmatics is understanding the social and emotional context of language. Each of these is controlled by a different part of the brain that are supposed to work together, but depending on where the miswiring is located, you can have one, two or all three.

So a child may have perfect grammar and a large vocabulary, but not understand the difference between friendly teasing and bullying. That would be pragmatics. Or a child may not understand the words another child is using, but understand friendly tones and gestures. That would be receptive.

Exactly and when there are issues understanding and using vocabulary and grammar, there are pragmatic speech issues. Pragmatic issues can be explained to a child with only pragmatic issues using words but it is a whole other ball game explaining pragmatics if there are receptive issues.

Your statement makes no sense. Just because a child has receptive issues does not mean they have pragmatic. Most receptive language kids have other coping strategies and learn to function, especially socially. I can explain social things very easily to my child as can others. You missed the point of that comment.

Really? How do you explain concepts like "humility", "good sportsmanship", "kindness", etc. without using language? Receptive language delays need much more than coping strategies and that is why a receptive language delay is sometimes an indicator for ID.

Social skills picture stories help a lot. I know this one is for kids with autism, but you can do the same thing for other deficits.

http://www.amazon.com/Picture-Teaching-emotion-communication-children/dp/1885477910/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1463086471&sr=8-1&keywords=social+skills+picture+book

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks. It is in normal range so I refuse to freak further. I am putting down the freaking out for now.

IQ is in the normal range? Then stop freaking out. Outcomes are generally good for kids with IQ in the normal range (or better). They may have some lingering deficits as adults, but they do okay.

No, we don't know that yet. Receptive skills are in the normal range but lower than expressive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not all kids with ASD need or get ABA. ABA has NEVER been recommended for my DS with ASD/ADHD by anyone.

You are right however that speech therapy for a MERLD child will look very different than speech therapy for a child whose deficit is solely pragmatics. DS attends a language immersion school, Mandarin/English, has excellent language skills and gets pragmatic speech therapy and social skills classes. He would not be in a dual language program if he had issues with receptive and expressive language in English.

Also, it is hard to imagine a child who has issues with receptive and expressive language NOT having pragmatic speech issues.

It may be hard for you to imagine, but the MERLD kids I know do not have pragmatic speech issues. They have expressive issues that may impact social things but its not the same thing as what you are thinking. And, my MERLD kid could do an immersion school, as he's done foreign language at his school for two years/no more issues than other kids. You are very much overgeneralizing and making it based of ADHD/ASD, not a language disorder.

What is MERLD, then? What do the receptive issues mean - nothing? I understand that a kid with expressive delays only could do that - but how is a kid who cannot understand language having no issues udnerstanding language? WT everloving F, OP? If there is nothing wrong with your kid, awesome, move along. If there is, join us over here in the land where things are wrong and unpredictable but get off your high horse, for the love of.

Some of this disagreement seems to be a misunderstanding of the technical terms involved. Receptive language is understanding the vocubulary and grammar of speech. Expressive language is using vocabulary and grammar. Pragmatics is understanding the social and emotional context of language. Each of these is controlled by a different part of the brain that are supposed to work together, but depending on where the miswiring is located, you can have one, two or all three.

So a child may have perfect grammar and a large vocabulary, but not understand the difference between friendly teasing and bullying. That would be pragmatics. Or a child may not understand the words another child is using, but understand friendly tones and gestures. That would be receptive.

Exactly and when there are issues understanding and using vocabulary and grammar, there are pragmatic speech issues. Pragmatic issues can be explained to a child with only pragmatic issues using words but it is a whole other ball game explaining pragmatics if there are receptive issues.

Your statement makes no sense. Just because a child has receptive issues does not mean they have pragmatic. Most receptive language kids have other coping strategies and learn to function, especially socially. I can explain social things very easily to my child as can others. You missed the point of that comment.

Really? How do you explain concepts like "humility", "good sportsmanship", "kindness", etc. without using language? Receptive language delays need much more than coping strategies and that is why a receptive language delay is sometimes an indicator for ID.

Social skills picture stories help a lot. I know this one is for kids with autism, but you can do the same thing for other deficits.

http://www.amazon.com/Picture-Teaching-emotion-communication-children/dp/1885477910/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1463086471&sr=8-1&keywords=social+skills+picture+book

+ visual schedules to help with executive functioning

+ timers to help with time management

+ visual cues

But the older a child gets and the abstract concepts get more complicated and more language dependent, it's hard to find stuff that can help.

Receptive delays are serious and outcomes are often dependent on IQ - which is LANGUAGE dependent and measures language ability. Higher the IQ, better the outcome generally.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not all kids with ASD need or get ABA. ABA has NEVER been recommended for my DS with ASD/ADHD by anyone.

You are right however that speech therapy for a MERLD child will look very different than speech therapy for a child whose deficit is solely pragmatics. DS attends a language immersion school, Mandarin/English, has excellent language skills and gets pragmatic speech therapy and social skills classes. He would not be in a dual language program if he had issues with receptive and expressive language in English.

Also, it is hard to imagine a child who has issues with receptive and expressive language NOT having pragmatic speech issues.

It may be hard for you to imagine, but the MERLD kids I know do not have pragmatic speech issues. They have expressive issues that may impact social things but its not the same thing as what you are thinking. And, my MERLD kid could do an immersion school, as he's done foreign language at his school for two years/no more issues than other kids. You are very much overgeneralizing and making it based of ADHD/ASD, not a language disorder.

What is MERLD, then? What do the receptive issues mean - nothing? I understand that a kid with expressive delays only could do that - but how is a kid who cannot understand language having no issues udnerstanding language? WT everloving F, OP? If there is nothing wrong with your kid, awesome, move along. If there is, join us over here in the land where things are wrong and unpredictable but get off your high horse, for the love of.

Some of this disagreement seems to be a misunderstanding of the technical terms involved. Receptive language is understanding the vocubulary and grammar of speech. Expressive language is using vocabulary and grammar. Pragmatics is understanding the social and emotional context of language. Each of these is controlled by a different part of the brain that are supposed to work together, but depending on where the miswiring is located, you can have one, two or all three.

So a child may have perfect grammar and a large vocabulary, but not understand the difference between friendly teasing and bullying. That would be pragmatics. Or a child may not understand the words another child is using, but understand friendly tones and gestures. That would be receptive.

Exactly and when there are issues understanding and using vocabulary and grammar, there are pragmatic speech issues. Pragmatic issues can be explained to a child with only pragmatic issues using words but it is a whole other ball game explaining pragmatics if there are receptive issues.

Your statement makes no sense. Just because a child has receptive issues does not mean they have pragmatic. Most receptive language kids have other coping strategies and learn to function, especially socially. I can explain social things very easily to my child as can others. You missed the point of that comment.

Really? How do you explain concepts like "humility", "good sportsmanship", "kindness", etc. without using language? Receptive language delays need much more than coping strategies and that is why a receptive language delay is sometimes an indicator for ID.

Social communication skills are not necessarily dependent on spoken language. Just think about pre-verbal babies, or toddlers with just a few words. Many of them engage in socialization extremely effectively, without any language at all. Conversely, high-functioning ASD kids can have great receptive and expressive language, and still need help with pragmatics. Language is ONE tool to engage in socialization. Not the only one.

Agree. Social communication isn't just dependent on spoken language. This is why ASD is also often diagnosed as "non-verbal learning disability."

While social communication skills are not completely dependent on language. Abstract reasoning ability and IQ tests such as the WISC ARE completely dependent on language. Thus why receptive language issues can also show up as low IQ scores.

Thus bringing it full circle. Kids whose only deficit is pragmatics can be taught pragmatics using words - probably the easiest way to teach social skills. Kids with receptive delays require more than words thus therapies like ABA - whether or not the child has an ASD diagnosis.

FYI, NVLD is no longer in the DSM, PP.

This makes no sense PPP. You're confusing pragmatics, social skills, and behavior. Pragmatics is context pure and simple. You don't teach "using words." You teach it through experience (preferably), social skill groups, picture stories, etc. It's helping a kid learn appropriate responses in context. (Sidetone: I never met a kid whose "only deficit" was pragmatics.)

Kids learn social skills best from their peers--that's based on research. ABA or behavioral therapy aren't generally used for teaching social skills; they are for skill building and to address behavioral issues. Not all kids with receptive delays will require "more therapies." It really just depends on the kid and the severity of their delays. I'm not sure where you got this nonsense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not all kids with ASD need or get ABA. ABA has NEVER been recommended for my DS with ASD/ADHD by anyone.

You are right however that speech therapy for a MERLD child will look very different than speech therapy for a child whose deficit is solely pragmatics. DS attends a language immersion school, Mandarin/English, has excellent language skills and gets pragmatic speech therapy and social skills classes. He would not be in a dual language program if he had issues with receptive and expressive language in English.

Also, it is hard to imagine a child who has issues with receptive and expressive language NOT having pragmatic speech issues.

It may be hard for you to imagine, but the MERLD kids I know do not have pragmatic speech issues. They have expressive issues that may impact social things but its not the same thing as what you are thinking. And, my MERLD kid could do an immersion school, as he's done foreign language at his school for two years/no more issues than other kids. You are very much overgeneralizing and making it based of ADHD/ASD, not a language disorder.

What is MERLD, then? What do the receptive issues mean - nothing? I understand that a kid with expressive delays only could do that - but how is a kid who cannot understand language having no issues udnerstanding language? WT everloving F, OP? If there is nothing wrong with your kid, awesome, move along. If there is, join us over here in the land where things are wrong and unpredictable but get off your high horse, for the love of.

Some of this disagreement seems to be a misunderstanding of the technical terms involved. Receptive language is understanding the vocubulary and grammar of speech. Expressive language is using vocabulary and grammar. Pragmatics is understanding the social and emotional context of language. Each of these is controlled by a different part of the brain that are supposed to work together, but depending on where the miswiring is located, you can have one, two or all three.

So a child may have perfect grammar and a large vocabulary, but not understand the difference between friendly teasing and bullying. That would be pragmatics. Or a child may not understand the words another child is using, but understand friendly tones and gestures. That would be receptive.

Exactly and when there are issues understanding and using vocabulary and grammar, there are pragmatic speech issues. Pragmatic issues can be explained to a child with only pragmatic issues using words but it is a whole other ball game explaining pragmatics if there are receptive issues.

Your statement makes no sense. Just because a child has receptive issues does not mean they have pragmatic. Most receptive language kids have other coping strategies and learn to function, especially socially. I can explain social things very easily to my child as can others. You missed the point of that comment.

Really? How do you explain concepts like "humility", "good sportsmanship", "kindness", etc. without using language? Receptive language delays need much more than coping strategies and that is why a receptive language delay is sometimes an indicator for ID.

Social skills picture stories help a lot. I know this one is for kids with autism, but you can do the same thing for other deficits.

http://www.amazon.com/Picture-Teaching-emotion-communication-children/dp/1885477910/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1463086471&sr=8-1&keywords=social+skills+picture+book

+ visual schedules to help with executive functioning

+ timers to help with time management

+ visual cues

But the older a child gets and the abstract concepts get more complicated and more language dependent, it's hard to find stuff that can help.

Receptive delays are serious and outcomes are often dependent on IQ - which is LANGUAGE dependent and measures language ability. Higher the IQ, better the outcome generally.

Not entirely. Performance IQ and its subtests are not language dependent. DS has poor scores on several of the verbal IQ subtests and has high scores on several of the performance IQ subtests, including matrix reasoning. His overall IQ score is 121, but that isn't really reflective of his abilities because he is worse on verbal tasks and better on visual spatial tasks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not all kids with ASD need or get ABA. ABA has NEVER been recommended for my DS with ASD/ADHD by anyone.

You are right however that speech therapy for a MERLD child will look very different than speech therapy for a child whose deficit is solely pragmatics. DS attends a language immersion school, Mandarin/English, has excellent language skills and gets pragmatic speech therapy and social skills classes. He would not be in a dual language program if he had issues with receptive and expressive language in English.

Also, it is hard to imagine a child who has issues with receptive and expressive language NOT having pragmatic speech issues.

It may be hard for you to imagine, but the MERLD kids I know do not have pragmatic speech issues. They have expressive issues that may impact social things but its not the same thing as what you are thinking. And, my MERLD kid could do an immersion school, as he's done foreign language at his school for two years/no more issues than other kids. You are very much overgeneralizing and making it based of ADHD/ASD, not a language disorder.

What is MERLD, then? What do the receptive issues mean - nothing? I understand that a kid with expressive delays only could do that - but how is a kid who cannot understand language having no issues udnerstanding language? WT everloving F, OP? If there is nothing wrong with your kid, awesome, move along. If there is, join us over here in the land where things are wrong and unpredictable but get off your high horse, for the love of.

Some of this disagreement seems to be a misunderstanding of the technical terms involved. Receptive language is understanding the vocubulary and grammar of speech. Expressive language is using vocabulary and grammar. Pragmatics is understanding the social and emotional context of language. Each of these is controlled by a different part of the brain that are supposed to work together, but depending on where the miswiring is located, you can have one, two or all three.

So a child may have perfect grammar and a large vocabulary, but not understand the difference between friendly teasing and bullying. That would be pragmatics. Or a child may not understand the words another child is using, but understand friendly tones and gestures. That would be receptive.

Exactly and when there are issues understanding and using vocabulary and grammar, there are pragmatic speech issues. Pragmatic issues can be explained to a child with only pragmatic issues using words but it is a whole other ball game explaining pragmatics if there are receptive issues.

Your statement makes no sense. Just because a child has receptive issues does not mean they have pragmatic. Most receptive language kids have other coping strategies and learn to function, especially socially. I can explain social things very easily to my child as can others. You missed the point of that comment.

Really? How do you explain concepts like "humility", "good sportsmanship", "kindness", etc. without using language? Receptive language delays need much more than coping strategies and that is why a receptive language delay is sometimes an indicator for ID.

Social communication skills are not necessarily dependent on spoken language. Just think about pre-verbal babies, or toddlers with just a few words. Many of them engage in socialization extremely effectively, without any language at all. Conversely, high-functioning ASD kids can have great receptive and expressive language, and still need help with pragmatics. Language is ONE tool to engage in socialization. Not the only one.

Agree. Social communication isn't just dependent on spoken language. This is why ASD is also often diagnosed as "non-verbal learning disability."

While social communication skills are not completely dependent on language. Abstract reasoning ability and IQ tests such as the WISC ARE completely dependent on language. Thus why receptive language issues can also show up as low IQ scores.

Thus bringing it full circle. Kids whose only deficit is pragmatics can be taught pragmatics using words - probably the easiest way to teach social skills. Kids with receptive delays require more than words thus therapies like ABA - whether or not the child has an ASD diagnosis.

FYI, NVLD is no longer in the DSM, PP.

This makes no sense PPP. You're confusing pragmatics, social skills, and behavior. Pragmatics is context pure and simple. You don't teach "using words." You teach it through experience (preferably), social skill groups, picture stories, etc. It's helping a kid learn appropriate responses in context. (Sidetone: I never met a kid whose "only deficit" was pragmatics.)

Kids learn social skills best from their peers--that's based on research. ABA or behavioral therapy aren't generally used for teaching social skills; they are for skill building and to address behavioral issues. Not all kids with receptive delays will require "more therapies." It really just depends on the kid and the severity of their delays. I'm not sure where you got this nonsense.

Kids with ASD need explicit instruction in pragmatics and social skills. They do not learn it from observation, experience and modeling by peers or adults. If they did, they would not have ASD and no one would be running social skills classes and charging parents $$$.

[Anonymous]

^And my kid with ASD was never recommended ABA or behavioral therapy for learning social skills or to treat his autism.

He has always gotten social skills classes and pragmatic speech therapy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not all kids with ASD need or get ABA. ABA has NEVER been recommended for my DS with ASD/ADHD by anyone.

You are right however that speech therapy for a MERLD child will look very different than speech therapy for a child whose deficit is solely pragmatics. DS attends a language immersion school, Mandarin/English, has excellent language skills and gets pragmatic speech therapy and social skills classes. He would not be in a dual language program if he had issues with receptive and expressive language in English.

Also, it is hard to imagine a child who has issues with receptive and expressive language NOT having pragmatic speech issues.

It may be hard for you to imagine, but the MERLD kids I know do not have pragmatic speech issues. They have expressive issues that may impact social things but its not the same thing as what you are thinking. And, my MERLD kid could do an immersion school, as he's done foreign language at his school for two years/no more issues than other kids. You are very much overgeneralizing and making it based of ADHD/ASD, not a language disorder.

What is MERLD, then? What do the receptive issues mean - nothing? I understand that a kid with expressive delays only could do that - but how is a kid who cannot understand language having no issues udnerstanding language? WT everloving F, OP? If there is nothing wrong with your kid, awesome, move along. If there is, join us over here in the land where things are wrong and unpredictable but get off your high horse, for the love of.

Some of this disagreement seems to be a misunderstanding of the technical terms involved. Receptive language is understanding the vocubulary and grammar of speech. Expressive language is using vocabulary and grammar. Pragmatics is understanding the social and emotional context of language. Each of these is controlled by a different part of the brain that are supposed to work together, but depending on where the miswiring is located, you can have one, two or all three.

So a child may have perfect grammar and a large vocabulary, but not understand the difference between friendly teasing and bullying. That would be pragmatics. Or a child may not understand the words another child is using, but understand friendly tones and gestures. That would be receptive.

Exactly and when there are issues understanding and using vocabulary and grammar, there are pragmatic speech issues. Pragmatic issues can be explained to a child with only pragmatic issues using words but it is a whole other ball game explaining pragmatics if there are receptive issues.

Your statement makes no sense. Just because a child has receptive issues does not mean they have pragmatic. Most receptive language kids have other coping strategies and learn to function, especially socially. I can explain social things very easily to my child as can others. You missed the point of that comment.

Really? How do you explain concepts like "humility", "good sportsmanship", "kindness", etc. without using language? Receptive language delays need much more than coping strategies and that is why a receptive language delay is sometimes an indicator for ID.

Social communication skills are not necessarily dependent on spoken language. Just think about pre-verbal babies, or toddlers with just a few words. Many of them engage in socialization extremely effectively, without any language at all. Conversely, high-functioning ASD kids can have great receptive and expressive language, and still need help with pragmatics. Language is ONE tool to engage in socialization. Not the only one.

Agree. Social communication isn't just dependent on spoken language. This is why ASD is also often diagnosed as "non-verbal learning disability."

While social communication skills are not completely dependent on language. Abstract reasoning ability and IQ tests such as the WISC ARE completely dependent on language. Thus why receptive language issues can also show up as low IQ scores.

Thus bringing it full circle. Kids whose only deficit is pragmatics can be taught pragmatics using words - probably the easiest way to teach social skills. Kids with receptive delays require more than words thus therapies like ABA - whether or not the child has an ASD diagnosis.

FYI, NVLD is no longer in the DSM, PP.

This makes no sense PPP. You're confusing pragmatics, social skills, and behavior. Pragmatics is context pure and simple. You don't teach "using words." You teach it through experience (preferably), social skill groups, picture stories, etc. It's helping a kid learn appropriate responses in context. (Sidetone: I never met a kid whose "only deficit" was pragmatics.)

Kids learn social skills best from their peers--that's based on research. ABA or behavioral therapy aren't generally used for teaching social skills; they are for skill building and to address behavioral issues. Not all kids with receptive delays will require "more therapies." It really just depends on the kid and the severity of their delays. I'm not sure where you got this nonsense.

Kids with ASD need explicit instruction in pragmatics and social skills. They do not learn it from observation, experience and modeling by peers or adults. If they did, they would not have ASD and no one would be running social skills classes and charging parents $$$.

Well, to burst your bubble social skill class/pragmatics instruction are not just for kids on the spectrum. Not all kids on the spectrum need social skill classes/pragmatics instruction. It really just depends on the kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not all kids with ASD need or get ABA. ABA has NEVER been recommended for my DS with ASD/ADHD by anyone.

You are right however that speech therapy for a MERLD child will look very different than speech therapy for a child whose deficit is solely pragmatics. DS attends a language immersion school, Mandarin/English, has excellent language skills and gets pragmatic speech therapy and social skills classes. He would not be in a dual language program if he had issues with receptive and expressive language in English.

Also, it is hard to imagine a child who has issues with receptive and expressive language NOT having pragmatic speech issues.

It may be hard for you to imagine, but the MERLD kids I know do not have pragmatic speech issues. They have expressive issues that may impact social things but its not the same thing as what you are thinking. And, my MERLD kid could do an immersion school, as he's done foreign language at his school for two years/no more issues than other kids. You are very much overgeneralizing and making it based of ADHD/ASD, not a language disorder.

What is MERLD, then? What do the receptive issues mean - nothing? I understand that a kid with expressive delays only could do that - but how is a kid who cannot understand language having no issues udnerstanding language? WT everloving F, OP? If there is nothing wrong with your kid, awesome, move along. If there is, join us over here in the land where things are wrong and unpredictable but get off your high horse, for the love of.

Some of this disagreement seems to be a misunderstanding of the technical terms involved. Receptive language is understanding the vocubulary and grammar of speech. Expressive language is using vocabulary and grammar. Pragmatics is understanding the social and emotional context of language. Each of these is controlled by a different part of the brain that are supposed to work together, but depending on where the miswiring is located, you can have one, two or all three.

So a child may have perfect grammar and a large vocabulary, but not understand the difference between friendly teasing and bullying. That would be pragmatics. Or a child may not understand the words another child is using, but understand friendly tones and gestures. That would be receptive.

Exactly and when there are issues understanding and using vocabulary and grammar, there are pragmatic speech issues. Pragmatic issues can be explained to a child with only pragmatic issues using words but it is a whole other ball game explaining pragmatics if there are receptive issues.

Your statement makes no sense. Just because a child has receptive issues does not mean they have pragmatic. Most receptive language kids have other coping strategies and learn to function, especially socially. I can explain social things very easily to my child as can others. You missed the point of that comment.

Really? How do you explain concepts like "humility", "good sportsmanship", "kindness", etc. without using language? Receptive language delays need much more than coping strategies and that is why a receptive language delay is sometimes an indicator for ID.

Social communication skills are not necessarily dependent on spoken language. Just think about pre-verbal babies, or toddlers with just a few words. Many of them engage in socialization extremely effectively, without any language at all. Conversely, high-functioning ASD kids can have great receptive and expressive language, and still need help with pragmatics. Language is ONE tool to engage in socialization. Not the only one.

Agree. Social communication isn't just dependent on spoken language. This is why ASD is also often diagnosed as "non-verbal learning disability."

While social communication skills are not completely dependent on language. Abstract reasoning ability and IQ tests such as the WISC ARE completely dependent on language. Thus why receptive language issues can also show up as low IQ scores.

Thus bringing it full circle. Kids whose only deficit is pragmatics can be taught pragmatics using words - probably the easiest way to teach social skills. Kids with receptive delays require more than words thus therapies like ABA - whether or not the child has an ASD diagnosis.

FYI, NVLD is no longer in the DSM, PP.

This makes no sense PPP. You're confusing pragmatics, social skills, and behavior. Pragmatics is context pure and simple. You don't teach "using words." You teach it through experience (preferably), social skill groups, picture stories, etc. It's helping a kid learn appropriate responses in context. (Sidetone: I never met a kid whose "only deficit" was pragmatics.)

Kids learn social skills best from their peers--that's based on research. ABA or behavioral therapy aren't generally used for teaching social skills; they are for skill building and to address behavioral issues. Not all kids with receptive delays will require "more therapies." It really just depends on the kid and the severity of their delays. I'm not sure where you got this nonsense.

Kids with ASD need explicit instruction in pragmatics and social skills. They do not learn it from observation, experience and modeling by peers or adults. If they did, they would not have ASD and no one would be running social skills classes and charging parents $$$.

Well, to burst your bubble social skill class/pragmatics instruction are not just for kids on the spectrum. Not all kids on the spectrum need social skill classes/pragmatics instruction. It really just depends on the kid.

In our area, there are lots of social skills classes for kids with ADHD. Is that not a thing in DC?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not all kids with ASD need or get ABA. ABA has NEVER been recommended for my DS with ASD/ADHD by anyone.

You are right however that speech therapy for a MERLD child will look very different than speech therapy for a child whose deficit is solely pragmatics. DS attends a language immersion school, Mandarin/English, has excellent language skills and gets pragmatic speech therapy and social skills classes. He would not be in a dual language program if he had issues with receptive and expressive language in English.

Also, it is hard to imagine a child who has issues with receptive and expressive language NOT having pragmatic speech issues.

It may be hard for you to imagine, but the MERLD kids I know do not have pragmatic speech issues. They have expressive issues that may impact social things but its not the same thing as what you are thinking. And, my MERLD kid could do an immersion school, as he's done foreign language at his school for two years/no more issues than other kids. You are very much overgeneralizing and making it based of ADHD/ASD, not a language disorder.

What is MERLD, then? What do the receptive issues mean - nothing? I understand that a kid with expressive delays only could do that - but how is a kid who cannot understand language having no issues udnerstanding language? WT everloving F, OP? If there is nothing wrong with your kid, awesome, move along. If there is, join us over here in the land where things are wrong and unpredictable but get off your high horse, for the love of.

Some of this disagreement seems to be a misunderstanding of the technical terms involved. Receptive language is understanding the vocubulary and grammar of speech. Expressive language is using vocabulary and grammar. Pragmatics is understanding the social and emotional context of language. Each of these is controlled by a different part of the brain that are supposed to work together, but depending on where the miswiring is located, you can have one, two or all three.

So a child may have perfect grammar and a large vocabulary, but not understand the difference between friendly teasing and bullying. That would be pragmatics. Or a child may not understand the words another child is using, but understand friendly tones and gestures. That would be receptive.

Exactly and when there are issues understanding and using vocabulary and grammar, there are pragmatic speech issues. Pragmatic issues can be explained to a child with only pragmatic issues using words but it is a whole other ball game explaining pragmatics if there are receptive issues.

Your statement makes no sense. Just because a child has receptive issues does not mean they have pragmatic. Most receptive language kids have other coping strategies and learn to function, especially socially. I can explain social things very easily to my child as can others. You missed the point of that comment.

Really? How do you explain concepts like "humility", "good sportsmanship", "kindness", etc. without using language? Receptive language delays need much more than coping strategies and that is why a receptive language delay is sometimes an indicator for ID.

Social communication skills are not necessarily dependent on spoken language. Just think about pre-verbal babies, or toddlers with just a few words. Many of them engage in socialization extremely effectively, without any language at all. Conversely, high-functioning ASD kids can have great receptive and expressive language, and still need help with pragmatics. Language is ONE tool to engage in socialization. Not the only one.

Agree. Social communication isn't just dependent on spoken language. This is why ASD is also often diagnosed as "non-verbal learning disability."

While social communication skills are not completely dependent on language. Abstract reasoning ability and IQ tests such as the WISC ARE completely dependent on language. Thus why receptive language issues can also show up as low IQ scores.

Thus bringing it full circle. Kids whose only deficit is pragmatics can be taught pragmatics using words - probably the easiest way to teach social skills. Kids with receptive delays require more than words thus therapies like ABA - whether or not the child has an ASD diagnosis.

FYI, NVLD is no longer in the DSM, PP.

This makes no sense PPP. You're confusing pragmatics, social skills, and behavior. Pragmatics is context pure and simple. You don't teach "using words." You teach it through experience (preferably), social skill groups, picture stories, etc. It's helping a kid learn appropriate responses in context. (Sidetone: I never met a kid whose "only deficit" was pragmatics.)

Kids learn social skills best from their peers--that's based on research. ABA or behavioral therapy aren't generally used for teaching social skills; they are for skill building and to address behavioral issues. Not all kids with receptive delays will require "more therapies." It really just depends on the kid and the severity of their delays. I'm not sure where you got this nonsense.

Kids with ASD need explicit instruction in pragmatics and social skills. They do not learn it from observation, experience and modeling by peers or adults. If they did, they would not have ASD and no one would be running social skills classes and charging parents $$$.

Well, to burst your bubble social skill class/pragmatics instruction are not just for kids on the spectrum. Not all kids on the spectrum need social skill classes/pragmatics instruction. It really just depends on the kid.

Autism is a social communication disorder. Whether or not they need pragmatics or social skills instruction, social skills deficits are the main criteria.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Autism is a social communication disorder. Whether or not they need pragmatics or social skills instruction, social skills deficits are the main criteria.

No it's not, it's a neurodevelopmental disorder that has two components - social communication AND restricted, repetitive behaviors. You have to have both, but one may be much more debilitating than the other.

[Anonymous]

Again, so much misinformation about MERLD on this thread. Going back to the clinical definition: For a MERLD diagnosis, ASD has been ruled out and there's a documented gap between a child's NONVERBAL IQ and their speech input and output.



Diagnostic criteria for 315.31 Mixed Receptive-Expressive Language Disorder

DSM IV - TR



A. The scores obtained from a battery of standardized individually administered measures of both receptive and expressive language development are substantially below those obtained from standardized measures of nonverbal intellectual capacity. Symptoms include those for Expressive Language Disorder as well as difficulty understanding words, sentences, or specific types of words, such as spatial terms.

B. The difficulties with receptive and expressive language significantly interfere with academic or occupational achievement or with social communication.

C. Criteria are not met for a Pervasive Developmental Disorder.

D. If Mental Retardation, a speech-motor or sensory deficit, or environmental deprivation is present, the language difficulties are in excess of those usually associated with these problems.

Coding note: If a speech-motor or sensory deficit or a neurological condition is present, code the condition on Axis III.

Reprinted with permission from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fourth Edition, Text Revision. Copyright 2000 American Psychiatric Association

[Anonymous]

Also, somone keeps claiming that ASD and MERLD have the same brain scans and neurological base. But that is not true. To see the brain scans, go to the link.

http://eideneurolearningblog.blogspot.com/2009/02/late-talking-children-confused-with.html

Late-Talking Children Confused with Autism Spectrum


This study (figure above) provides insight into some of the whys of speech delay. When late-talking children listened to their mother's voices "recalling relatives, pets, and events; and singing familiar songs", they listened with their right language areas rather than their left (controls). We've blogged on some the characteristics of right-hemispheric language (Searching for the Right Word in the Right Brain); gifted dyslexic storytellers (here) also tend to have a right hemispheric pattern of expression - cinematic (immersive, multisensory, rich in associations), but often non-linear. The fMRI appearance of autistic subjects, on the other hand, is very different from this. Language problems associated with autism showed reduced connectivity with sentence comprehension tasks, but the activity is still on the left hemisphere, not the right. For more on this, look here.