MERLD does exist!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not all kids with ASD need or get ABA. ABA has NEVER been recommended for my DS with ASD/ADHD by anyone.

You are right however that speech therapy for a MERLD child will look very different than speech therapy for a child whose deficit is solely pragmatics. DS attends a language immersion school, Mandarin/English, has excellent language skills and gets pragmatic speech therapy and social skills classes. He would not be in a dual language program if he had issues with receptive and expressive language in English.

Also, it is hard to imagine a child who has issues with receptive and expressive language NOT having pragmatic speech issues.

It may be hard for you to imagine, but the MERLD kids I know do not have pragmatic speech issues. They have expressive issues that may impact social things but its not the same thing as what you are thinking. And, my MERLD kid could do an immersion school, as he's done foreign language at his school for two years/no more issues than other kids. You are very much overgeneralizing and making it based of ADHD/ASD, not a language disorder.

What is MERLD, then? What do the receptive issues mean - nothing? I understand that a kid with expressive delays only could do that - but how is a kid who cannot understand language having no issues udnerstanding language? WT everloving F, OP? If there is nothing wrong with your kid, awesome, move along. If there is, join us over here in the land where things are wrong and unpredictable but get off your high horse, for the love of.

Some of this disagreement seems to be a misunderstanding of the technical terms involved. Receptive language is understanding the vocubulary and grammar of speech. Expressive language is using vocabulary and grammar. Pragmatics is understanding the social and emotional context of language. Each of these is controlled by a different part of the brain that are supposed to work together, but depending on where the miswiring is located, you can have one, two or all three.

So a child may have perfect grammar and a large vocabulary, but not understand the difference between friendly teasing and bullying. That would be pragmatics. Or a child may not understand the words another child is using, but understand friendly tones and gestures. That would be receptive.

Exactly and when there are issues understanding and using vocabulary and grammar, there are pragmatic speech issues. Pragmatic issues can be explained to a child with only pragmatic issues using words but it is a whole other ball game explaining pragmatics if there are receptive issues.

Your statement makes no sense. Just because a child has receptive issues does not mean they have pragmatic. Most receptive language kids have other coping strategies and learn to function, especially socially. I can explain social things very easily to my child as can others. You missed the point of that comment.

I'm sorry - why are you acting like a receptive delay is no big deal whatsoever, exactly? My son has one, and it is apparently "mild" - actually within average range just lower than his expressive - and it has made all professionals take note and mention future possible issues. Its a big deal, all alone. You don't need to have ASD to have a scary prognosis, you know. Your child has MERLD, meaning they have some kind of neurological impairment. And science does not yet know what that means, or where, or how it is different than other impairments. But, rest assured, it is an impairment, and we are all on this island together, so FFS grow up, play nice, or go home.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not all kids with ASD need or get ABA. ABA has NEVER been recommended for my DS with ASD/ADHD by anyone.

You are right however that speech therapy for a MERLD child will look very different than speech therapy for a child whose deficit is solely pragmatics. DS attends a language immersion school, Mandarin/English, has excellent language skills and gets pragmatic speech therapy and social skills classes. He would not be in a dual language program if he had issues with receptive and expressive language in English.

Also, it is hard to imagine a child who has issues with receptive and expressive language NOT having pragmatic speech issues.

It may be hard for you to imagine, but the MERLD kids I know do not have pragmatic speech issues. They have expressive issues that may impact social things but its not the same thing as what you are thinking. And, my MERLD kid could do an immersion school, as he's done foreign language at his school for two years/no more issues than other kids. You are very much overgeneralizing and making it based of ADHD/ASD, not a language disorder.

What is MERLD, then? What do the receptive issues mean - nothing? I understand that a kid with expressive delays only could do that - but how is a kid who cannot understand language having no issues udnerstanding language? WT everloving F, OP? If there is nothing wrong with your kid, awesome, move along. If there is, join us over here in the land where things are wrong and unpredictable but get off your high horse, for the love of.

Some of this disagreement seems to be a misunderstanding of the technical terms involved. Receptive language is understanding the vocubulary and grammar of speech. Expressive language is using vocabulary and grammar. Pragmatics is understanding the social and emotional context of language. Each of these is controlled by a different part of the brain that are supposed to work together, but depending on where the miswiring is located, you can have one, two or all three.

So a child may have perfect grammar and a large vocabulary, but not understand the difference between friendly teasing and bullying. That would be pragmatics. Or a child may not understand the words another child is using, but understand friendly tones and gestures. That would be receptive.

Exactly and when there are issues understanding and using vocabulary and grammar, there are pragmatic speech issues. Pragmatic issues can be explained to a child with only pragmatic issues using words but it is a whole other ball game explaining pragmatics if there are receptive issues.

Your statement makes no sense. Just because a child has receptive issues does not mean they have pragmatic. Most receptive language kids have other coping strategies and learn to function, especially socially. I can explain social things very easily to my child as can others. You missed the point of that comment.

Really? How do you explain concepts like "humility", "good sportsmanship", "kindness", etc. without using language? Receptive language delays need much more than coping strategies and that is why a receptive language delay is sometimes an indicator for ID.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There's been some argument about this category in recent days, but I hope that this post will lay the issue to rest, rather stir up more trouble. DSM V deleted MERLD as a diagnosistic category, but it lives on in another important place - ICD-10. ICD-10 is the International Classification of Diseases, 10th edition, and it's where those code numbers on your medical invoices come from. You can't get an insurance reimbursement for treatment without one of those codes, so users of DSM-V have to translate their diagnosis into an ICD-10 diagnosis . So it turns out that F80.2 is Mixed Receptive-Expressive Language Disorder.

http://www.icd10data.com/ICD10CM/Codes/F01-F99/F80-F89/F80-/F80.2

I trust this will lay this particular issue to rest, and we will have one less dumb thing to argue about.

Is MERLD-Insane also a recognized category?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Is MERLD-Insane also a recognized category?

It's coming in DSM-VI.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Really? How do you explain concepts like "humility", "good sportsmanship", "kindness", etc. without using language? Receptive language delays need much more than coping strategies and that is why a receptive language delay is sometimes an indicator for ID.

Also, having to resort to "coping strategies" means that you will likely continue to have issues, even if the coping strategies work very well. The mere fact that it is a coping strategy means that you are using one part of the brain to make up for a deficit in another part.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Really? How do you explain concepts like "humility", "good sportsmanship", "kindness", etc. without using language? Receptive language delays need much more than coping strategies and that is why a receptive language delay is sometimes an indicator for ID.

Also, having to resort to "coping strategies" means that you will likely continue to have issues, even if the coping strategies work very well. The mere fact that it is a coping strategy means that you are using one part of the brain to make up for a deficit in another part.

Ok, now you guys are really freaking me out. I am the one who has a son with a mild receptive language delay meaning it is slightly lower than his expressive but within normal/average range - is that an indicator of an ID?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Ok, now you guys are really freaking me out. I am the one who has a son with a mild receptive language delay meaning it is slightly lower than his expressive but within normal/average range - is that an indicator of an ID?

Not necessarily but many times certain things can go together like red hair and freckles. But no point in freaking out, especially not by what you read here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Really? How do you explain concepts like "humility", "good sportsmanship", "kindness", etc. without using language? Receptive language delays need much more than coping strategies and that is why a receptive language delay is sometimes an indicator for ID.

Also, having to resort to "coping strategies" means that you will likely continue to have issues, even if the coping strategies work very well. The mere fact that it is a coping strategy means that you are using one part of the brain to make up for a deficit in another part.

Ok, now you guys are really freaking me out. I am the one who has a son with a mild receptive language delay meaning it is slightly lower than his expressive but within normal/average range - is that an indicator of an ID?

Not necessarily, it's just something to watch out for. If your child is still in the low normal range, it could be argued that they don't have any real deficits at all, just a weakness in one particular area. These posts were geared more towards another poster who is arguing her own child has no problems while other children are nightmares. Not a popular view on an SN forum, to say the least.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Ok, now you guys are really freaking me out. I am the one who has a son with a mild receptive language delay meaning it is slightly lower than his expressive but within normal/average range - is that an indicator of an ID?

This article explain language disorders pretty well:
https://www.understood.org/en/learning-attention-issues/child-learning-disabilities/communication-disorders/understanding-language-disorders

[Anonymous]

Thanks. It is in normal range so I refuse to freak further. I am putting down the freaking out for now.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not all kids with ASD need or get ABA. ABA has NEVER been recommended for my DS with ASD/ADHD by anyone.

You are right however that speech therapy for a MERLD child will look very different than speech therapy for a child whose deficit is solely pragmatics. DS attends a language immersion school, Mandarin/English, has excellent language skills and gets pragmatic speech therapy and social skills classes. He would not be in a dual language program if he had issues with receptive and expressive language in English.

Also, it is hard to imagine a child who has issues with receptive and expressive language NOT having pragmatic speech issues.

It may be hard for you to imagine, but the MERLD kids I know do not have pragmatic speech issues. They have expressive issues that may impact social things but its not the same thing as what you are thinking. And, my MERLD kid could do an immersion school, as he's done foreign language at his school for two years/no more issues than other kids. You are very much overgeneralizing and making it based of ADHD/ASD, not a language disorder.

What is MERLD, then? What do the receptive issues mean - nothing? I understand that a kid with expressive delays only could do that - but how is a kid who cannot understand language having no issues udnerstanding language? WT everloving F, OP? If there is nothing wrong with your kid, awesome, move along. If there is, join us over here in the land where things are wrong and unpredictable but get off your high horse, for the love of.

Some of this disagreement seems to be a misunderstanding of the technical terms involved. Receptive language is understanding the vocubulary and grammar of speech. Expressive language is using vocabulary and grammar. Pragmatics is understanding the social and emotional context of language. Each of these is controlled by a different part of the brain that are supposed to work together, but depending on where the miswiring is located, you can have one, two or all three.

So a child may have perfect grammar and a large vocabulary, but not understand the difference between friendly teasing and bullying. That would be pragmatics. Or a child may not understand the words another child is using, but understand friendly tones and gestures. That would be receptive.

Exactly and when there are issues understanding and using vocabulary and grammar, there are pragmatic speech issues. Pragmatic issues can be explained to a child with only pragmatic issues using words but it is a whole other ball game explaining pragmatics if there are receptive issues.

Your statement makes no sense. Just because a child has receptive issues does not mean they have pragmatic. Most receptive language kids have other coping strategies and learn to function, especially socially. I can explain social things very easily to my child as can others. You missed the point of that comment.

Really? How do you explain concepts like "humility", "good sportsmanship", "kindness", etc. without using language? Receptive language delays need much more than coping strategies and that is why a receptive language delay is sometimes an indicator for ID.

Social communication skills are not necessarily dependent on spoken language. Just think about pre-verbal babies, or toddlers with just a few words. Many of them engage in socialization extremely effectively, without any language at all. Conversely, high-functioning ASD kids can have great receptive and expressive language, and still need help with pragmatics. Language is ONE tool to engage in socialization. Not the only one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Is MERLD-Insane also a recognized category?

It's coming in DSM-VI.

n = OP

I find it ridiculous that the OP among others don't understand what the word "pragmatics" means. It has to do with context. If you have receptive delays, you have issues in "pragmatics" b/c you missed part of the teacher's instruction or have a hard time following a conversation among friends. It's not code for autism. Many kids have difficulty with pragmatics b/c of speech delays, ADHD, autism, auditory processing, or executive functioning issues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thanks. It is in normal range so I refuse to freak further. I am putting down the freaking out for now.

You should probably put down this entire thread. It's no longer (and never was) about actual information.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not all kids with ASD need or get ABA. ABA has NEVER been recommended for my DS with ASD/ADHD by anyone.

You are right however that speech therapy for a MERLD child will look very different than speech therapy for a child whose deficit is solely pragmatics. DS attends a language immersion school, Mandarin/English, has excellent language skills and gets pragmatic speech therapy and social skills classes. He would not be in a dual language program if he had issues with receptive and expressive language in English.

Also, it is hard to imagine a child who has issues with receptive and expressive language NOT having pragmatic speech issues.

It may be hard for you to imagine, but the MERLD kids I know do not have pragmatic speech issues. They have expressive issues that may impact social things but its not the same thing as what you are thinking. And, my MERLD kid could do an immersion school, as he's done foreign language at his school for two years/no more issues than other kids. You are very much overgeneralizing and making it based of ADHD/ASD, not a language disorder.

What is MERLD, then? What do the receptive issues mean - nothing? I understand that a kid with expressive delays only could do that - but how is a kid who cannot understand language having no issues udnerstanding language? WT everloving F, OP? If there is nothing wrong with your kid, awesome, move along. If there is, join us over here in the land where things are wrong and unpredictable but get off your high horse, for the love of.

Some of this disagreement seems to be a misunderstanding of the technical terms involved. Receptive language is understanding the vocubulary and grammar of speech. Expressive language is using vocabulary and grammar. Pragmatics is understanding the social and emotional context of language. Each of these is controlled by a different part of the brain that are supposed to work together, but depending on where the miswiring is located, you can have one, two or all three.

So a child may have perfect grammar and a large vocabulary, but not understand the difference between friendly teasing and bullying. That would be pragmatics. Or a child may not understand the words another child is using, but understand friendly tones and gestures. That would be receptive.

Exactly and when there are issues understanding and using vocabulary and grammar, there are pragmatic speech issues. Pragmatic issues can be explained to a child with only pragmatic issues using words but it is a whole other ball game explaining pragmatics if there are receptive issues.

Your statement makes no sense. Just because a child has receptive issues does not mean they have pragmatic. Most receptive language kids have other coping strategies and learn to function, especially socially. I can explain social things very easily to my child as can others. You missed the point of that comment.

Really? How do you explain concepts like "humility", "good sportsmanship", "kindness", etc. without using language? Receptive language delays need much more than coping strategies and that is why a receptive language delay is sometimes an indicator for ID.

Social communication skills are not necessarily dependent on spoken language. Just think about pre-verbal babies, or toddlers with just a few words. Many of them engage in socialization extremely effectively, without any language at all. Conversely, high-functioning ASD kids can have great receptive and expressive language, and still need help with pragmatics. Language is ONE tool to engage in socialization. Not the only one.

Agree. Social communication isn't just dependent on spoken language. This is why ASD is also often diagnosed as "non-verbal learning disability."

While social communication skills are not completely dependent on language. Abstract reasoning ability and IQ tests such as the WISC ARE completely dependent on language. Thus why receptive language issues can also show up as low IQ scores.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not all kids with ASD need or get ABA. ABA has NEVER been recommended for my DS with ASD/ADHD by anyone.

You are right however that speech therapy for a MERLD child will look very different than speech therapy for a child whose deficit is solely pragmatics. DS attends a language immersion school, Mandarin/English, has excellent language skills and gets pragmatic speech therapy and social skills classes. He would not be in a dual language program if he had issues with receptive and expressive language in English.

Also, it is hard to imagine a child who has issues with receptive and expressive language NOT having pragmatic speech issues.

It may be hard for you to imagine, but the MERLD kids I know do not have pragmatic speech issues. They have expressive issues that may impact social things but its not the same thing as what you are thinking. And, my MERLD kid could do an immersion school, as he's done foreign language at his school for two years/no more issues than other kids. You are very much overgeneralizing and making it based of ADHD/ASD, not a language disorder.

What is MERLD, then? What do the receptive issues mean - nothing? I understand that a kid with expressive delays only could do that - but how is a kid who cannot understand language having no issues udnerstanding language? WT everloving F, OP? If there is nothing wrong with your kid, awesome, move along. If there is, join us over here in the land where things are wrong and unpredictable but get off your high horse, for the love of.

Some of this disagreement seems to be a misunderstanding of the technical terms involved. Receptive language is understanding the vocubulary and grammar of speech. Expressive language is using vocabulary and grammar. Pragmatics is understanding the social and emotional context of language. Each of these is controlled by a different part of the brain that are supposed to work together, but depending on where the miswiring is located, you can have one, two or all three.

So a child may have perfect grammar and a large vocabulary, but not understand the difference between friendly teasing and bullying. That would be pragmatics. Or a child may not understand the words another child is using, but understand friendly tones and gestures. That would be receptive.

Exactly and when there are issues understanding and using vocabulary and grammar, there are pragmatic speech issues. Pragmatic issues can be explained to a child with only pragmatic issues using words but it is a whole other ball game explaining pragmatics if there are receptive issues.

Your statement makes no sense. Just because a child has receptive issues does not mean they have pragmatic. Most receptive language kids have other coping strategies and learn to function, especially socially. I can explain social things very easily to my child as can others. You missed the point of that comment.

Really? How do you explain concepts like "humility", "good sportsmanship", "kindness", etc. without using language? Receptive language delays need much more than coping strategies and that is why a receptive language delay is sometimes an indicator for ID.

Social communication skills are not necessarily dependent on spoken language. Just think about pre-verbal babies, or toddlers with just a few words. Many of them engage in socialization extremely effectively, without any language at all. Conversely, high-functioning ASD kids can have great receptive and expressive language, and still need help with pragmatics. Language is ONE tool to engage in socialization. Not the only one.

Agree. Social communication isn't just dependent on spoken language. This is why ASD is also often diagnosed as "non-verbal learning disability."

While social communication skills are not completely dependent on language. Abstract reasoning ability and IQ tests such as the WISC ARE completely dependent on language. Thus why receptive language issues can also show up as low IQ scores.

Thus bringing it full circle. Kids whose only deficit is pragmatics can be taught pragmatics using words - probably the easiest way to teach social skills. Kids with receptive delays require more than words thus therapies like ABA - whether or not the child has an ASD diagnosis.