MERLD does exist!

[Anonymous]

Also, to the pragmatics questions, a MERLD's child pragmatic language will be delayed, because his OVERALL language is delayed. They won't be out of sync by much. Whereas a hallmark of ASD is often trouble with pragmatics, where a child can talk well, but have little pragmatic skill.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not all kids with ASD need or get ABA. ABA has NEVER been recommended for my DS with ASD/ADHD by anyone.

You are right however that speech therapy for a MERLD child will look very different than speech therapy for a child whose deficit is solely pragmatics. DS attends a language immersion school, Mandarin/English, has excellent language skills and gets pragmatic speech therapy and social skills classes. He would not be in a dual language program if he had issues with receptive and expressive language in English.

Also, it is hard to imagine a child who has issues with receptive and expressive language NOT having pragmatic speech issues.

It may be hard for you to imagine, but the MERLD kids I know do not have pragmatic speech issues. They have expressive issues that may impact social things but its not the same thing as what you are thinking. And, my MERLD kid could do an immersion school, as he's done foreign language at his school for two years/no more issues than other kids. You are very much overgeneralizing and making it based of ADHD/ASD, not a language disorder.

What is MERLD, then? What do the receptive issues mean - nothing? I understand that a kid with expressive delays only could do that - but how is a kid who cannot understand language having no issues udnerstanding language? WT everloving F, OP? If there is nothing wrong with your kid, awesome, move along. If there is, join us over here in the land where things are wrong and unpredictable but get off your high horse, for the love of.

Here's what many MERLD parents are saying: Most kids grow out of MERLD. I see it every day on our MERLD message boards. I've met many of these kids. They truly "grow" out of it. The receptive language kicks in, and you'd never know there was ANY delay. There is a percentage who struggle quite a bit, particularly those whose receptive language gets "stuck" or who have other conditions layered on top. That certainly happens, but it's ' not the norm.

As to whether the others are somehow "cheating" by using coping strategies, well most people have some weakness they work around to achieve their best self.




Some of this disagreement seems to be a misunderstanding of the technical terms involved. Receptive language is understanding the vocubulary and grammar of speech. Expressive language is using vocabulary and grammar. Pragmatics is understanding the social and emotional context of language. Each of these is controlled by a different part of the brain that are supposed to work together, but depending on where the miswiring is located, you can have one, two or all three.

So a child may have perfect grammar and a large vocabulary, but not understand the difference between friendly teasing and bullying. That would be pragmatics. Or a child may not understand the words another child is using, but understand friendly tones and gestures. That would be receptive.

Exactly and when there are issues understanding and using vocabulary and grammar, there are pragmatic speech issues. Pragmatic issues can be explained to a child with only pragmatic issues using words but it is a whole other ball game explaining pragmatics if there are receptive issues.

Your statement makes no sense. Just because a child has receptive issues does not mean they have pragmatic. Most receptive language kids have other coping strategies and learn to function, especially socially. I can explain social things very easily to my child as can others. You missed the point of that comment.

Really? How do you explain concepts like "humility", "good sportsmanship", "kindness", etc. without using language? Receptive language delays need much more than coping strategies and that is why a receptive language delay is sometimes an indicator for ID.

Social communication skills are not necessarily dependent on spoken language. Just think about pre-verbal babies, or toddlers with just a few words. Many of them engage in socialization extremely effectively, without any language at all. Conversely, high-functioning ASD kids can have great receptive and expressive language, and still need help with pragmatics. Language is ONE tool to engage in socialization. Not the only one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not all kids with ASD need or get ABA. ABA has NEVER been recommended for my DS with ASD/ADHD by anyone.

You are right however that speech therapy for a MERLD child will look very different than speech therapy for a child whose deficit is solely pragmatics. DS attends a language immersion school, Mandarin/English, has excellent language skills and gets pragmatic speech therapy and social skills classes. He would not be in a dual language program if he had issues with receptive and expressive language in English.

Also, it is hard to imagine a child who has issues with receptive and expressive language NOT having pragmatic speech issues.

It may be hard for you to imagine, but the MERLD kids I know do not have pragmatic speech issues. They have expressive issues that may impact social things but its not the same thing as what you are thinking. And, my MERLD kid could do an immersion school, as he's done foreign language at his school for two years/no more issues than other kids. You are very much overgeneralizing and making it based of ADHD/ASD, not a language disorder.

What is MERLD, then? What do the receptive issues mean - nothing? I understand that a kid with expressive delays only could do that - but how is a kid who cannot understand language having no issues udnerstanding language? WT everloving F, OP? If there is nothing wrong with your kid, awesome, move along. If there is, join us over here in the land where things are wrong and unpredictable but get off your high horse, for the love of.
Here's what many MERLD parents are saying: Most kids grow out of MERLD. I see it every day on our MERLD message boards. I've met many of these kids. They truly "grow" out of it. The receptive language kicks in, and you'd never know there was ANY delay. There is a percentage who struggle quite a bit, particularly those whose receptive language gets "stuck" or who have other conditions layered on top. That certainly happens, but it's ' not the norm.

As to whether the others are somehow "cheating" by using coping strategies, well most people have some weakness they work around to achieve their best self.




Some of this disagreement seems to be a misunderstanding of the technical terms involved. Receptive language is understanding the vocubulary and grammar of speech. Expressive language is using vocabulary and grammar. Pragmatics is understanding the social and emotional context of language. Each of these is controlled by a different part of the brain that are supposed to work together, but depending on where the miswiring is located, you can have one, two or all three.

So a child may have perfect grammar and a large vocabulary, but not understand the difference between friendly teasing and bullying. That would be pragmatics. Or a child may not understand the words another child is using, but understand friendly tones and gestures. That would be receptive.

Exactly and when there are issues understanding and using vocabulary and grammar, there are pragmatic speech issues. Pragmatic issues can be explained to a child with only pragmatic issues using words but it is a whole other ball game explaining pragmatics if there are receptive issues.

Your statement makes no sense. Just because a child has receptive issues does not mean they have pragmatic. Most receptive language kids have other coping strategies and learn to function, especially socially. I can explain social things very easily to my child as can others. You missed the point of that comment.

Really? How do you explain concepts like "humility", "good sportsmanship", "kindness", etc. without using language? Receptive language delays need much more than coping strategies and that is why a receptive language delay is sometimes an indicator for ID.

Social communication skills are not necessarily dependent on spoken language. Just think about pre-verbal babies, or toddlers with just a few words. Many of them engage in socialization extremely effectively, without any language at all. Conversely, high-functioning ASD kids can have great receptive and expressive language, and still need help with pragmatics. Language is ONE tool to engage in socialization. Not the only one.

What is MERLD, then? What do the receptive issues mean - nothing? I understand that a kid with expressive delays only could do that - but how is a kid who cannot understand language having no issues udnerstanding language[/b]? WT everloving F, OP? If there is nothing wrong with your kid, awesome, move along. If there is, join us over here in the land where things are wrong and unpredictable but get off your high horse, for the love of.


Here's what many MERLD parents are saying: Most kids grow out of MERLD. I see it every day on our MERLD message boards. I've met many of these kids. They truly "grow" out of it. The receptive language kicks in, and you'd never know there was ANY delay. There is a percentage who struggle quite a bit, particularly those whose receptive language gets "stuck" or who have other conditions layered on top. That certainly happens, but it's ' not the norm.

As to whether the others are somehow "cheating" by using coping strategies, well most people have some weakness they work around to achieve their best self.

[Anonymous]

Its kind of interesting - my son has epilepsy and I have done quite a bit of research on comorbid conditions. A lot of kids with temporal lobe epilepsy have receptive delays that usually (for those without other conditions) abate by around 7. Kind of strange how the brain works sometimes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Also, to the pragmatics questions, a MERLD's child pragmatic language will be delayed, because his OVERALL language is delayed. They won't be out of sync by much. Whereas a hallmark of ASD is often trouble with pragmatics, where a child can talk well, but have little pragmatic skill.

You obviously know very little about MERLD or ASD so stop spreading the ignorance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Also, to the pragmatics questions, a MERLD's child pragmatic language will be delayed, because his OVERALL language is delayed. They won't be out of sync by much. Whereas a hallmark of ASD is often trouble with pragmatics, where a child can talk well, but have little pragmatic skill.

You obviously know very little about MERLD or ASD so stop spreading the ignorance.

I thought that comment was spot-on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Again, so much misinformation about MERLD on this thread. Going back to the clinical definition: For a MERLD diagnosis, ASD has been ruled out and there's a documented gap between a child's NONVERBAL IQ and their speech input and output.



Diagnostic criteria for 315.31 Mixed Receptive-Expressive Language Disorder

DSM IV - TR



A. The scores obtained from a battery of standardized individually administered measures of both receptive and expressive language development are substantially below those obtained from standardized measures of nonverbal intellectual capacity. Symptoms include those for Expressive Language Disorder as well as difficulty understanding words, sentences, or specific types of words, such as spatial terms.

B. The difficulties with receptive and expressive language significantly interfere with academic or occupational achievement or with social communication.

C. Criteria are not met for a Pervasive Developmental Disorder.

D. If Mental Retardation, a speech-motor or sensory deficit, or environmental deprivation is present, the language difficulties are in excess of those usually associated with these problems.

Coding note: If a speech-motor or sensory deficit or a neurological condition is present, code the condition on Axis III.

Reprinted with permission from the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fourth Edition, Text Revision. Copyright 2000 American Psychiatric Association

MERLD is no longer a current diagnosis for professionals. The correct diagnosis is "Language Disorder." They combined MERLD, expressive language disorder, and receptive language disorder into one diagnosis. They also eliminated the PDD-NOS diagnosis from the developmental disorders category. Any kids with language impairment AND restricted interests or repetitive behaviors and impaired social communication/social skills should go in the ASD diagnosis. Kids without repetitive behaviors/restricted interests and impaired social communication/social skills go under "Language Disorder." Some kids previously diagnosed as PDD-NOS do not meet the criteria for ASD, but do meet the criteria for "Language Disorder."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Also, somone keeps claiming that ASD and MERLD have the same brain scans and neurological base. But that is not true. To see the brain scans, go to the link.

http://eideneurolearningblog.blogspot.com/2009/02/late-talking-children-confused-with.html

Late-Talking Children Confused with Autism Spectrum


This study (figure above) provides insight into some of the whys of speech delay. When late-talking children listened to their mother's voices "recalling relatives, pets, and events; and singing familiar songs", they listened with their right language areas rather than their left (controls). We've blogged on some the characteristics of right-hemispheric language (Searching for the Right Word in the Right Brain); gifted dyslexic storytellers (here) also tend to have a right hemispheric pattern of expression - cinematic (immersive, multisensory, rich in associations), but often non-linear. The fMRI appearance of autistic subjects, on the other hand, is very different from this. Language problems associated with autism showed reduced connectivity with sentence comprehension tasks, but the activity is still on the left hemisphere, not the right. For more on this, look here.

The link is about late-talking children, not MERLD. Is this just about kids who happen to have delayed speech and that's it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
MERLD is no longer a current diagnosis for professionals. The correct diagnosis is "Language Disorder." They combined MERLD, expressive language disorder, and receptive language disorder into one diagnosis. They also eliminated the PDD-NOS diagnosis from the developmental disorders category. Any kids with language impairment AND restricted interests or repetitive behaviors and impaired social communication/social skills should go in the ASD diagnosis. Kids without repetitive behaviors/restricted interests and impaired social communication/social skills go under "Language Disorder." Some kids previously diagnosed as PDD-NOS do not meet the criteria for ASD, but do meet the criteria for "Language Disorder."

Not quite. True, MERLD is now Language Disorder. But kids with impaired social communication but no repetitive/restricted behaviors who used to be PDD-NOS are now classified as Social(Pragmatic) Communication Disorder, not "Language Disorder."

https://www.autismspeaks.org/dsm-5/faq

"What is the new Social (Pragmatic) Communication Disorder diagnosis?

Social Communication Disorder is a new diagnostic category. It is meant to apply to individuals who have deficits in the social use of language, but do not have the restricted interests or repetitive behavior you see in autism spectrum disorders. Some children who previously would have received a diagnosis of PDD-NOS may now receive a diagnosis of Social Communication Disorder. This should only apply to newly diagnosed individuals. Individuals who receive this diagnosis would likely benefit from services typically provided to individuals with autism.

Is SCD part of the autism spectrum?

SCD is not included under the autism spectrum disorder category, instead it is a communication disorder. If an individual meets criteria for an autism spectrum disorder, they will receive that diagnosis rather than SCD."

[Anonymous]

It it's important to point out to MERLD-mad mom that the new definition of Language Disorder that replaces MERLD does not now exclude autism. This is because when DSM-IV released in 1994 it was assumed that all language difficulties in autistic children was caused by the autism itself.

Now it is believed that autistic language deficiencies are primarily social pragmatic in nature, but there is also a high comorbidity with a variety of other communication and developmental disorders such as Language Disorder, ADHD, OCD, SLDs and Tourette's Syndrome.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
MERLD is no longer a current diagnosis for professionals. The correct diagnosis is "Language Disorder." They combined MERLD, expressive language disorder, and receptive language disorder into one diagnosis. They also eliminated the PDD-NOS diagnosis from the developmental disorders category. Any kids with language impairment AND restricted interests or repetitive behaviors and impaired social communication/social skills should go in the ASD diagnosis. Kids without repetitive behaviors/restricted interests and impaired social communication/social skills go under "Language Disorder." Some kids previously diagnosed as PDD-NOS do not meet the criteria for ASD, but do meet the criteria for "Language Disorder."

Not quite. True, MERLD is now Language Disorder. But kids with impaired social communication but no repetitive/restricted behaviors who used to be PDD-NOS are now classified as Social(Pragmatic) Communication Disorder, not "Language Disorder."

https://www.autismspeaks.org/dsm-5/faq

"What is the new Social (Pragmatic) Communication Disorder diagnosis?

Social Communication Disorder is a new diagnostic category. It is meant to apply to individuals who have deficits in the social use of language, but do not have the restricted interests or repetitive behavior you see in autism spectrum disorders. Some children who previously would have received a diagnosis of PDD-NOS may now receive a diagnosis of Social Communication Disorder. This should only apply to newly diagnosed individuals. Individuals who receive this diagnosis would likely benefit from services typically provided to individuals with autism.

Is SCD part of the autism spectrum?

SCD is not included under the autism spectrum disorder category, instead it is a communication disorder. If an individual meets criteria for an autism spectrum disorder, they will receive that diagnosis rather than SCD."

Fair enough

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It it's important to point out to MERLD-mad mom that the new definition of Language Disorder that replaces MERLD does not now exclude autism. This is because when DSM-IV released in 1994 it was assumed that all language difficulties in autistic children was caused by the autism itself.

Now it is believed that autistic language deficiencies are primarily social pragmatic in nature, but there is also a high comorbidity with a variety of other communication and developmental disorders such as Language Disorder, ADHD, OCD, SLDs and Tourette's Syndrome.

And, this comment has what to do with MERLD?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It it's important to point out to MERLD-mad mom that the new definition of Language Disorder that replaces MERLD does not now exclude autism. This is because when DSM-IV released in 1994 it was assumed that all language difficulties in autistic children was caused by the autism itself.

Now it is believed that autistic language deficiencies are primarily social pragmatic in nature, but there is also a high comorbidity with a variety of other communication and developmental disorders such as Language Disorder, ADHD, OCD, SLDs and Tourette's Syndrome.

And, this comment has what to do with MERLD?

Corrects the misinformation that a diagnosis of MERLD, aka Language Disorder, still excludes ASD, which is something one particular poster has been insisting on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It it's important to point out to MERLD-mad mom that the new definition of Language Disorder that replaces MERLD does not now exclude autism. This is because when DSM-IV released in 1994 it was assumed that all language difficulties in autistic children was caused by the autism itself.

Now it is believed that autistic language deficiencies are primarily social pragmatic in nature, but there is also a high comorbidity with a variety of other communication and developmental disorders such as Language Disorder, ADHD, OCD, SLDs and Tourette's Syndrome.

And, this comment has what to do with MERLD?

Corrects the misinformation that a diagnosis of MERLD, aka Language Disorder, still excludes ASD, which is something one particular poster has been insisting on.

No it does not and someone is spewing "facts" about MERLD that make sense for MERLD children basically placing them with autism and social communication issues when that is not the primary issue. MERLD and Autism are very different in nature and how children present. Children with MERLD do not have pragmatic issues but their social skills can be impacted by language. My child understands kindness, empathy and all the social constructs of how to act. He also does his best to do so given his challenges. He doesn't need pragmatic assistance or social skills classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It it's important to point out to MERLD-mad mom that the new definition of Language Disorder that replaces MERLD does not now exclude autism. This is because when DSM-IV released in 1994 it was assumed that all language difficulties in autistic children was caused by the autism itself.

Now it is believed that autistic language deficiencies are primarily social pragmatic in nature, but there is also a high comorbidity with a variety of other communication and developmental disorders such as Language Disorder, ADHD, OCD, SLDs and Tourette's Syndrome.

And, this comment has what to do with MERLD?

Corrects the misinformation that a diagnosis of MERLD, aka Language Disorder, still excludes ASD, which is something one particular poster has been insisting on.

No it does not and someone is spewing "facts" about MERLD that make sense for MERLD children basically placing them with autism and social communication issues when that is not the primary issue. MERLD and Autism are very different in nature and how children present. Children with MERLD do not have pragmatic issues but their social skills can be impacted by language. My child understands kindness, empathy and all the social constructs of how to act. He also does his best to do so given his challenges. He doesn't need pragmatic assistance or social skills classes.

Would it help you to understand if you thought of ASD as MERLD+? Kids with ASD frequently have receptive and expressive language deficits, just like kids with MERLD. Kids with ASD also have social skills issues and repetitive behaviors/restricted interests. It's language issues plus the other two things.

BTW, it is a myth that kids with ASD don't understand kindness and don't have empathy. They usually have both. They aren't sociopaths. They often have problems perceiving emotions in others correctly. They often have difficulty reading facial expressions and body language. When they learn to do that, they have the same amount of empathy as kids who don't have an ASD. They may also have to be taught explicitly how to express that empathy and how to act kindly, but it isn't from lacking empathy.