Gifted programs, lack of, in DC

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In this town, what is considered gifted? I recently received my kid's academic assessment from two different testing centers, C2 Education and Huntington. He is two grades ahead in math, and almost a full two grades below in reading. Two different evaluations, same results. I bet most of these parents claiming that their DC are gifted are not. They just read or do math at a higher level.

An academic assessment is very different from an IQ test, which is what would be done to determine giftedness. It tests abstract reasoning, processing speed, problem solving skills and a bunch of other things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DCPS can't even meet the needs of average students never mind the gifted. The majority of kids in DCPS in all testing grades are below grade level in reading and math including high schoolers. Quite understandable why they don't bother with gifted education since they are woefully inadequate in teaching anyone.

Which is why focusing on in-class differentiation that ensures all kids are taught at the right level is the right answer. It doesn't have to be either/or.

Differentiation is obviously not working at all since DCPS has pathetically low proficiency rates in reading and math for large swaths of its students. Then you have large cohorts of families bailing on DCPS in order to meet their kids' educational needs.

No. Differentiation isn't happening in most DCPS. Skipping from nothing to "let's just pull out the advanced kids" doesn't address the bigger problem. And differentiation, done right, can actually address all of the issues (except, perhaps, for the profoundly gifted, whom we can all agree make up an incredibly small portion of the population--maybe 1 or 2 kids per school).

I would beg to differ. What DCPS schools are you finding that are not attempting to put in adequate or appropriate efforts to differentiate?

Well, just upthread two Janney posters said in-class differentiation isn't happening there. And in schools with less affluent populations, people report that the bulk of resources go to supporting kids who aren't proficient, without differentiation at the proficient/advanced levels.

True, in-class differentiation is about small, ability-leveled groups in every class, with instruction and assignments targeted to each different level. It's regular reassessment and fluid movement among groups, as appropriate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In this town, what is considered gifted? I recently received my kid's academic assessment from two different testing centers, C2 Education and Huntington. He is two grades ahead in math, and almost a full two grades below in reading. Two different evaluations, same results. I bet most of these parents claiming that their DC are gifted are not. They just read or do math at a higher level.

An academic assessment is very different from an IQ test, which is what would be done to determine giftedness. It tests abstract reasoning, processing speed, problem solving skills and a bunch of other things.

Are MoCo and FFX gifted programs based on IQ tests or standardized academic tests? My guess is standardized test, and that's why parents can pay to have their children prepped for testing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In this town, what is considered gifted? I recently received my kid's academic assessment from two different testing centers, C2 Education and Huntington. He is two grades ahead in math, and almost a full two grades below in reading. Two different evaluations, same results. I bet most of these parents claiming that their DC are gifted are not. They just read or do math at a higher level.

An academic assessment is very different from an IQ test, which is what would be done to determine giftedness. It tests abstract reasoning, processing speed, problem solving skills and a bunch of other things.

Are MoCo and FFX gifted programs based on IQ tests or standardized academic tests? My guess is standardized test, and that's why parents can pay to have their children prepped for testing.

MoCo uses the CogAt (Cognitive Abilities Test). It's not officially an IQ test but it's similar. And yes, it could be prepped for, and I'm sure some do prep for it. It comes with percentiles for each section and an overall score with percentiles. That's much better than "Reading two grade levels above"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I've thought about this some more and I stand by my statement that Janney's population is about 75% kids who would be admitted to a traditional, suburban district's Gifted and Talented program (which would admit about the top 20% of the cross section of kids). They're very bright and very capable of working several grade levels ahead but not prodigies.
Unfortunately the price of admission to this G&T program is the ability to afford to buy/rent a million dollar house in AU Park. Which is ALL sorts of wrong, I agree 100%. Unlike traditional school districts you can't test in, you must buy in to this peer group in DC. And for many if you can't afford (or chose not to) buy in, many Charter schools fulfill the same purpose of self-segregation by academic talent/ambition.

I'm really curious how you can claim that 75% of Janney's population is G&T when only 15% of the students performed advanced on PARCC. Even the very low bar of DCCAS had 53% (math) and 33% (reading) as advanced.

Totally agree with the bolded.

I also can't seem to get past the pp trying to say that any child who has college educated parents must be gifted. Most college educated people are not gifted - they are of average intelligence and worked to get through school (or didn't work hard but got "good enough" grades to graduate).

[Anonymous]

"I'm really curious how you can claim that 75% of Janney's population is G&T when only 15% of the students performed advanced on PARCC. Even the very low bar of DCCAS had 53% (math) and 33% (reading) as advanced.

Totally agree with the bolded."

She said 75% would quality for a Fairfax-style G&T program, which isn't a true "gifted" program as it has a lower bar to entry. (As does MoCo, apparently, as top 3-4% isn't quite gifted, more like top 2%). But I agree with her. My 99% Janney kid is the never the smartest in class - there are always a good 3-5 others who appear to be smarter, and only 2-3 who appear to really lag behind, so the cohort there is extremely bright. (And my IQ is the same as my kid's, which I actually find a bit weird, but I also suspect it supports the view that there is a lot of "nature" at play rather than just to environment.)

And the PARRC isn't even a validated test, in the world of educational psychologists (IQ testers), and wasn't designed to measure IQ, so I'm not sure why that is relevant, other than to show ignorance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"I'm really curious how you can claim that 75% of Janney's population is G&T when only 15% of the students performed advanced on PARCC. Even the very low bar of DCCAS had 53% (math) and 33% (reading) as advanced.

Totally agree with the bolded."

She said 75% would quality for a Fairfax-style G&T program, which isn't a true "gifted" program as it has a lower bar to entry. (As does MoCo, apparently, as top 3-4% isn't quite gifted, more like top 2%). But I agree with her. My 99% Janney kid is the never the smartest in class - there are always a good 3-5 others who appear to be smarter, and only 2-3 who appear to really lag behind, so the cohort there is extremely bright. (And my IQ is the same as my kid's, which I actually find a bit weird, but I also suspect it supports the view that there is a lot of "nature" at play rather than just to environment.)

And the PARRC isn't even a validated test, in the world of educational psychologists (IQ testers), and wasn't designed to measure IQ, so I'm not sure why that is relevant, other than to show ignorance.

I guarantee the top 3-4% of kids in MoCo are in the top 2% nationally. My niece has a 140+ IQ (top .5% nationally) went to a magnet in MoCo and was not at all exceptional in the program. There are a TON of smart kids in MoCo.

[Anonymous]

I like how everyone is fighting to get into the gifted classes. Why can't everyone?? Why are we forcing kids who want to be in challenging classes be in regular classes? Why are we teaching to the lowest common denominator. Maybe everyone should start in gifted and then move downward.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"I'm really curious how you can claim that 75% of Janney's population is G&T when only 15% of the students performed advanced on PARCC. Even the very low bar of DCCAS had 53% (math) and 33% (reading) as advanced.

Totally agree with the bolded."

She said 75% would quality for a Fairfax-style G&T program, which isn't a true "gifted" program as it has a lower bar to entry. (As does MoCo, apparently, as top 3-4% isn't quite gifted, more like top 2%). But I agree with her. My 99% Janney kid is the never the smartest in class - there are always a good 3-5 others who appear to be smarter, and only 2-3 who appear to really lag behind, so the cohort there is extremely bright. (And my IQ is the same as my kid's, which I actually find a bit weird, but I also suspect it supports the view that there is a lot of "nature" at play rather than just to environment.)

And the PARRC isn't even a validated test, in the world of educational psychologists (IQ testers), and wasn't designed to measure IQ, so I'm not sure why that is relevant, other than to show ignorance.

I still think it is strange that Janney thinks they have smarter kids then affluent local elementaries. So, in a McLean elementary where all the partners are law partners, etc., do 75% of kids test in to the top 20% of fairfax county?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"I'm really curious how you can claim that 75% of Janney's population is G&T when only 15% of the students performed advanced on PARCC. Even the very low bar of DCCAS had 53% (math) and 33% (reading) as advanced.

Totally agree with the bolded."

She said 75% would quality for a Fairfax-style G&T program, which isn't a true "gifted" program as it has a lower bar to entry. (As does MoCo, apparently, as top 3-4% isn't quite gifted, more like top 2%). But I agree with her. My 99% Janney kid is the never the smartest in class - there are always a good 3-5 others who appear to be smarter, and only 2-3 who appear to really lag behind, so the cohort there is extremely bright. (And my IQ is the same as my kid's, which I actually find a bit weird, but I also suspect it supports the view that there is a lot of "nature" at play rather than just to environment.)

And the PARRC isn't even a validated test, in the world of educational psychologists (IQ testers), and wasn't designed to measure IQ, so I'm not sure why that is relevant, other than to show ignorance.

Does Fairfax or Moco gifted program test for IQ? No. They do a standardized test just like PARCC. Sorry sweetie, your kid is average (which is good in DC with 75% of kids in poverty and not reading at grade level). So funny that you think you're all a bunch of smartie pants yet your kids can't score a 5 on PARCC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I know this has been debated over and over but it really is glaring. I am from NC and I am amazed at the opportunties that so many truly gifted kids have in my mid size city. Not only test in classes but they now have a special school that serves the truly top 1% who are even too advanced for the gifted classes. NC also has a Math and Science boarding school (think TJ but for statewide talent). Lots of FB friends in NC and SC are now preparing this their 7th graders for ACT/SAT as part of qualifying for the Duke Univiesity young scholars program which offers year wide enrichment for academically advanced kids. Yes, I know the arguements against all this, its just the parents "prepping" the kids, poor kids are at a disadvantage. But I can't help but feel in our liberal zeal to treat every student equally we have done a huge disservice to both the neediest students and also to the most academically advanced. I know DC is full if smart kids, some of them bordering on truly brilliant and other than AP (which based on the scores, probably most kids shouldnt be taking anyway so you know those are getting dumbed down) or IB, it seems that DC basically has said "smart kids do well anywhere so you are on your own"-- No I am not moving back to NC because our jobs are here. But for a state that seems to be gutting a lot of education program, they still have seriously invested in a lot of niche programming. I am curious why DC parents haven't demanded more? I am liberal but this just seems like a lot of misplaced liberal angst and guilt.

Dumbass right winger.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know this has been debated over and over but it really is glaring. I am from NC and I am amazed at the opportunties that so many truly gifted kids have in my mid size city. Not only test in classes but they now have a special school that serves the truly top 1% who are even too advanced for the gifted classes. NC also has a Math and Science boarding school (think TJ but for statewide talent). Lots of FB friends in NC and SC are now preparing this their 7th graders for ACT/SAT as part of qualifying for the Duke Univiesity young scholars program which offers year wide enrichment for academically advanced kids. Yes, I know the arguements against all this, its just the parents "prepping" the kids, poor kids are at a disadvantage. But I can't help but feel in our liberal zeal to treat every student equally we have done a huge disservice to both the neediest students and also to the most academically advanced. I know DC is full if smart kids, some of them bordering on truly brilliant and other than AP (which based on the scores, probably most kids shouldnt be taking anyway so you know those are getting dumbed down) or IB, it seems that DC basically has said "smart kids do well anywhere so you are on your own"-- No I am not moving back to NC because our jobs are here. But for a state that seems to be gutting a lot of education program, they still have seriously invested in a lot of niche programming. I am curious why DC parents haven't demanded more? I am liberal but this just seems like a lot of misplaced liberal angst and guilt.

Dumbass right winger.

Dumbass dumbass

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"I'm really curious how you can claim that 75% of Janney's population is G&T when only 15% of the students performed advanced on PARCC. Even the very low bar of DCCAS had 53% (math) and 33% (reading) as advanced.

Totally agree with the bolded."

She said 75% would quality for a Fairfax-style G&T program, which isn't a true "gifted" program as it has a lower bar to entry. (As does MoCo, apparently, as top 3-4% isn't quite gifted, more like top 2%). But I agree with her. My 99% Janney kid is the never the smartest in class - there are always a good 3-5 others who appear to be smarter, and only 2-3 who appear to really lag behind, so the cohort there is extremely bright. (And my IQ is the same as my kid's, which I actually find a bit weird, but I also suspect it supports the view that there is a lot of "nature" at play rather than just to environment.)

And the PARRC isn't even a validated test, in the world of educational psychologists (IQ testers), and wasn't designed to measure IQ, so I'm not sure why that is relevant, other than to show ignorance.

Does Fairfax or Moco gifted program test for IQ? No. They do a standardized test just like PARCC. Sorry sweetie, your kid is average (which is good in DC with 75% of kids in poverty and not reading at grade level). So funny that you think you're all a bunch of smartie pants yet your kids can't score a 5 on PARCC.

Actually as someone posted above Mont Co uses Cogat. Many Ffx parents have their children do private IQ tests and submit them with their application to the AAP schools (to augment what the schools do).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"I'm really curious how you can claim that 75% of Janney's population is G&T when only 15% of the students performed advanced on PARCC. Even the very low bar of DCCAS had 53% (math) and 33% (reading) as advanced.

Totally agree with the bolded."

She said 75% would quality for a Fairfax-style G&T program, which isn't a true "gifted" program as it has a lower bar to entry. (As does MoCo, apparently, as top 3-4% isn't quite gifted, more like top 2%). But I agree with her. My 99% Janney kid is the never the smartest in class - there are always a good 3-5 others who appear to be smarter, and only 2-3 who appear to really lag behind, so the cohort there is extremely bright. (And my IQ is the same as my kid's, which I actually find a bit weird, but I also suspect it supports the view that there is a lot of "nature" at play rather than just to environment.)

And the PARRC isn't even a validated test, in the world of educational psychologists (IQ testers), and wasn't designed to measure IQ, so I'm not sure why that is relevant, other than to show ignorance.

Does Fairfax or Moco gifted program test for IQ? No. They do a standardized test just like PARCC. Sorry sweetie, your kid is average (which is good in DC with 75% of kids in poverty and not reading at grade level). So funny that you think you're all a bunch of smartie pants yet your kids can't score a 5 on PARCC.

Actually as someone posted above Mont Co uses Cogat. Many Ffx parents have their children do private IQ tests and submit them with their application to the AAP schools (to augment what the schools do).

And Moco and Fairfax have 3-4% population qualify yet Janney has 75% that would qualify? My ass! Especially if these are the same kids where only 15% show advanced on PARCC. I'm sorry your "gifted" child that have parents that are college educated, valedictorian, Ivy leaguers should be able to score a 5 on PARCC. Miss me with that 75% gifted bullshit at Janney.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

And Moco and Fairfax have 3-4% population qualify yet Janney has 75% that would qualify? My ass! Especially if these are the same kids where only 15% show advanced on PARCC. I'm sorry your "gifted" child that have parents that are college educated, valedictorian, Ivy leaguers should be able to score a 5 on PARCC. Miss me with that 75% gifted bullshit at Janney.

Actually, according to the FFX's AAP program, they have 10 to 15% identified as gifted. MoCo's HGC program has only identified top 2-3%. I suspect the cutoff is very different between those two programs. Wasn't VA's National Merit cut off score slightly lower than MD's last year, too?