Gifted programs, lack of, in DC

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Won't happen because the racial makeup wouldn't match the city.

But it would match the country. We don't live in Nigeria, despite of what some folks seem to think.

What does the racial makeup of the DC school system have to do with the racial makeup of the country?

Enrollment in DCPS is limited to DC families (OK, maybe a few VA and MD families...)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:According to the Census, there are only 24,000 kids aged 10-14 in DC--and that's a major overstatement of how many high schoolers there will be in a few years since families will send kids to private school or move out of the District. Even if they all went to public high school, about half would be in charters. The top 1% of DCPS kids would only be 24 kids per grade, which is not enough to run a very interesting high school--especially since the top couple dozen most gifted kids in DC are not going to be gifted in the same way: some are going to want to do physics research and some are going to write plays and some are going to build computers and some want to learn Hindi and study international relations.

I think the DCPS application high schools plus AP at Wilson and IB at Eastern offer rigorous curricula, though the schools each have aspects that make them not a great fit for certain kids. A motivated student can also use the resources of the universities, agencies, organizations, etc. in the city to do a whole lot more.

Fixing the pipeline seems like a useful step--identifying smart kids at early grades and working with them in ways parents like. And there could be improvements (different ones for each school) at SWW, Banneker, Wilson, Eastern, etc. But building a whole new TJ-like school makes a lot less sense to me than working on McKinley Tech, which has the same aims.

Have you talked to the top IB Diploma candidates at Eastern lately, or their IB Diploma Program Coordinator? Do you know that the "rigorous curricula" you describe led to a first-year IB Diploma pass rate in the mid 20s, versus in the high 30s in the better suburban programs (the IB Diploma Point pass range is 24-45)? This year, half the Diploma candidates couldn't earn the minimum 24 points. Flash forward ten years, and little is likely to have changed at the rate we're going.

You're not fooling me because I've volunteered in Eastern's fraught IB Diploma Program. Nobody else should be fooled either. Not a good fit for certain kids, my foot. Try middle class kids, period.

I said it was a rigorous curriculum. The fact that many kids who attempt it don't get the minimum score to pass just proves that point. If Eastern all of a sudden had 50 kids who scored 4s and 5s on PARCC enter each grade, there would be more kids passing. The problem isn't IB. The problem is that too few kids go into high school with the skills needed to do IB. If you have a kid who has the skills, then IB will be there for them. Now, there may be other problems at Eastern--how is classroom discipline? Are kids who don't want to/can't do IB put into IB classes because the school doesn't want to have a teacher working with only 5 students? Those are issues, but they are solvable--and the solution isn't to remove IB.

[Anonymous]

THere would be no need for a lottery if DC had a gifted school program

[Anonymous]

OP here- interesting thread. I am not sure where DCPS or Charters go from here. I agree that failing to identify gifted minority students is a huge issue. My mother was a teacher for 30 years and would be the first to tell you that differentiation that truly serves ALL students in the class is myth. It just doesnt work well for any of the top or bottom students. Teachers teach down the middle or if its a grade that is testing, focus on the kids that will pull school test scores down.
I want to add that I think the NC legislatures have done some seriously rotten things to teachers and school budgets which is why I was so surprised at what they haven't cut funding more. Just food for thought-here is the link to the STEM Boarding school in NC. I think minority kids in DC would actually benefit from a residential program like this. Imagine being surrounded by other high achieving students 24/7?
http://www.ncssm.edu/about

[Anonymous]

"that differentiation that truly serves ALL students in the class is myth. It just doesnt work well for any of the top or bottom students. Teachers teach down the middle or if its a grade that is testing, focus on the kids that will pull school test scores down."

Exactly. At our JKLM, the pull outs are for the struggling kids to get them to grade level, while the main teacher focuses on the larger group. Granted, the main group is taught at a slightly excellerated level, given the abilities of most of the kids, but this still doesn't serve gifted children.

[Anonymous]

It is frustrating that pull outs in DC seem to focus on kids who are behind rather than those that are ahead.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:yes, if it isn't clear enough here - if you have the typical American high test score-based gifted program, you'll have a gifted program that has 99% of its enrollment from 20% of its student body, i.e., it will be white, Asian, and to be politically incorrect, a few token majority-assimilated black and Hispanic kids.

That being obvious, DCPS tries to go about this from a different perspective, making enrichment content available to students who are bad at test taking and possibly just simply poor students. So you won't see the gifted programs you wish for.

WTF is an assimilated black kid?!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:yes, if it isn't clear enough here - if you have the typical American high test score-based gifted program, you'll have a gifted program that has 99% of its enrollment from 20% of its student body, i.e., it will be white, Asian, and to be politically incorrect, a few token majority-assimilated black and Hispanic kids.

That being obvious, DCPS tries to go about this from a different perspective, making enrichment content available to students who are bad at test taking and possibly just simply poor students. So you won't see the gifted programs you wish for.

WTF is an assimilated black kid?!!

not you, bro

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:According to the Census, there are only 24,000 kids aged 10-14 in DC--and that's a major overstatement of how many high schoolers there will be in a few years since families will send kids to private school or move out of the District. Even if they all went to public high school, about half would be in charters. The top 1% of DCPS kids would only be 24 kids per grade, which is not enough to run a very interesting high school--especially since the top couple dozen most gifted kids in DC are not going to be gifted in the same way: some are going to want to do physics research and some are going to write plays and some are going to build computers and some want to learn Hindi and study international relations.

I think the DCPS application high schools plus AP at Wilson and IB at Eastern offer rigorous curricula, though the schools each have aspects that make them not a great fit for certain kids. A motivated student can also use the resources of the universities, agencies, organizations, etc. in the city to do a whole lot more.

Fixing the pipeline seems like a useful step--identifying smart kids at early grades and working with them in ways parents like. And there could be improvements (different ones for each school) at SWW, Banneker, Wilson, Eastern, etc. But building a whole new TJ-like school makes a lot less sense to me than working on McKinley Tech, which has the same aims.

Have you talked to the top IB Diploma candidates at Eastern lately, or their IB Diploma Program Coordinator? Do you know that the "rigorous curricula" you describe led to a first-year IB Diploma pass rate in the mid 20s, versus in the high 30s in the better suburban programs (the IB Diploma Point pass range is 24-45)? This year, half the Diploma candidates couldn't earn the minimum 24 points. Flash forward ten years, and little is likely to have changed at the rate we're going.

You're not fooling me because I've volunteered in Eastern's fraught IB Diploma Program. Nobody else should be fooled either. Not a good fit for certain kids, my foot. Try middle class kids, period.

I said it was a rigorous curriculum. The fact that many kids who attempt it don't get the minimum score to pass just proves that point. If Eastern all of a sudden had 50 kids who scored 4s and 5s on PARCC enter each grade, there would be more kids passing. The problem isn't IB. The problem is that too few kids go into high school with the skills needed to do IB. If you have a kid who has the skills, then IB will be there for them. Now, there may be other problems at Eastern--how is classroom discipline? Are kids who don't want to/can't do IB put into IB classes because the school doesn't want to have a teacher working with only 5 students? Those are issues, but they are solvable--and the solution isn't to remove IB.

OK, fantastic, a rigorous curriculum that should stay. What of it for Cap Hill gentrifiers? What doesn't appear to be solveable is the Ward 6 neighborhood middle school arrangement, with the nine Cap Hill neighborhood elementary schools feeding into several weak middle schools, causing the great majority of well-educated parents to vote with their feet to BASIS, Washington Latin, private and the burbs at 4th grade. Stuart Hobson's in-boundary percentage has dipped for five years running now, with no end in sight.

So when are the kids with the skills to ace IB Diploma examinations coming to Eastern? 30 years hence?

Anything is solvable in the grand scheme of things. Apparently, just not in Ward 6, with no heads rolling politically as a result.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Won't happen because the racial makeup wouldn't match the city.

But it would match the country. We don't live in Nigeria, despite of what some folks seem to think.

What does the racial makeup of the DC school system have to do with the racial makeup of the country?

Enrollment in DCPS is limited to DC families (OK, maybe a few VA and MD families...)

By the same token, what does the racial makeup in SE have to do with that in NW?

If gifted programs could benefit a significant number of students, they should take place, regardless of whether they match any particular racial makeup.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is frustrating that pull outs in DC seem to focus on kids who are behind rather than those that are ahead.

Not the experience at our elementary school (Hearst). While those who are behind are getting pullouts, many of the kids who are ahead are getting pullouts as well to give them more challenging work. In fact, some have been concerned that the advanced kids are being pulled out too much.

[Anonymous]

Where well-heeled PTAs pony up for teachers aides, or pay for enough stuff so that schools can afford them past K (e.g. at Janney, Murch and Brent) gifted elementary school kids are increasingly pulled out for enrichment systematically. BASIS alone offers real challenge for truly math gifted middle school kids, including 5th and 6th grade algebra.

It's a cynical state of affairs that politicians won't talk about because they don't have to. OP, DCPS is rotten to the core. I'm impressed with what you tell us about NC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:According to the Census, there are only 24,000 kids aged 10-14 in DC--and that's a major overstatement of how many high schoolers there will be in a few years since families will send kids to private school or move out of the District. Even if they all went to public high school, about half would be in charters. The top 1% of DCPS kids would only be 24 kids per grade, which is not enough to run a very interesting high school--especially since the top couple dozen most gifted kids in DC are not going to be gifted in the same way: some are going to want to do physics research and some are going to write plays and some are going to build computers and some want to learn Hindi and study international relations.

I think the DCPS application high schools plus AP at Wilson and IB at Eastern offer rigorous curricula, though the schools each have aspects that make them not a great fit for certain kids. A motivated student can also use the resources of the universities, agencies, organizations, etc. in the city to do a whole lot more.

Fixing the pipeline seems like a useful step--identifying smart kids at early grades and working with them in ways parents like. And there could be improvements (different ones for each school) at SWW, Banneker, Wilson, Eastern, etc. But building a whole new TJ-like school makes a lot less sense to me than working on McKinley Tech, which has the same aims.

Have you talked to the top IB Diploma candidates at Eastern lately, or their IB Diploma Program Coordinator? Do you know that the "rigorous curricula" you describe led to a first-year IB Diploma pass rate in the mid 20s, versus in the high 30s in the better suburban programs (the IB Diploma Point pass range is 24-45)? This year, half the Diploma candidates couldn't earn the minimum 24 points. Flash forward ten years, and little is likely to have changed at the rate we're going.

You're not fooling me because I've volunteered in Eastern's fraught IB Diploma Program. Nobody else should be fooled either. Not a good fit for certain kids, my foot. Try middle class kids, period.

I said it was a rigorous curriculum. The fact that many kids who attempt it don't get the minimum score to pass just proves that point. If Eastern all of a sudden had 50 kids who scored 4s and 5s on PARCC enter each grade, there would be more kids passing. The problem isn't IB. The problem is that too few kids go into high school with the skills needed to do IB. If you have a kid who has the skills, then IB will be there for them. Now, there may be other problems at Eastern--how is classroom discipline? Are kids who don't want to/can't do IB put into IB classes because the school doesn't want to have a teacher working with only 5 students? Those are issues, but they are solvable--and the solution isn't to remove IB.

OK, fantastic, a rigorous curriculum that should stay. What of it for Cap Hill gentrifiers? What doesn't appear to be solveable is the Ward 6 neighborhood middle school arrangement, with the nine Cap Hill neighborhood elementary schools feeding into several weak middle schools, causing the great majority of well-educated parents to vote with their feet to BASIS, Washington Latin, private and the burbs at 4th grade. Stuart Hobson's in-boundary percentage has dipped for five years running now, with no end in sight.

So when are the kids with the skills to ace IB Diploma examinations coming to Eastern? 30 years hence?

Anything is solvable in the grand scheme of things. Apparently, just not in Ward 6, with no heads rolling politically as a result.

Those Hill kids could just as easily go to Eastern for IB at 9th as anywhere else. The Latin and SWW aren't actually as 'rigorous' as IB.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:yes, if it isn't clear enough here - if you have the typical American high test score-based gifted program, you'll have a gifted program that has 99% of its enrollment from 20% of its student body, i.e., it will be white, Asian, and to be politically incorrect, a few token majority-assimilated black and Hispanic kids.

That being obvious, DCPS tries to go about this from a different perspective, making enrichment content available to students who are bad at test taking and possibly just simply poor students. So you won't see the gifted programs you wish for.

WTF is an assimilated black kid?!!

not you, bro

I don't get this response. Is this supposed to be funny? Are you supposed to be "talking black", really I don't get it. What were you going for here?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:yes, if it isn't clear enough here - if you have the typical American high test score-based gifted program, you'll have a gifted program that has 99% of its enrollment from 20% of its student body, i.e., it will be white, Asian, and to be politically incorrect, a few token majority-assimilated black and Hispanic kids.

That being obvious, DCPS tries to go about this from a different perspective, making enrichment content available to students who are bad at test taking and possibly just simply poor students. So you won't see the gifted programs you wish for.

WTF is an assimilated black kid?!!

not you, bro

I don't get this response. Is this supposed to be funny? Are you supposed to be "talking black", really I don't get it. What were you going for here?

thumbs up, dude, it's not that easy to assimilate well