Does 1580+ help T20 admissions?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Multiple 1580-1600 kids at our private got in ivies/T20 ED/ED2 this year with lack luster grades. Counselor was surprised.

What is lack luster? Outside top20%?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Multiple 1580-1600 kids at our private got in ivies/T20 ED/ED2 this year with lack luster grades. Counselor was surprised.

What is lack luster? Outside top20%?

I imagine this is because they are full-pay. Very appealing to colleges this year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m a broken record here but once you hit the threshold, it doesn’t matter for the HYP of the world.

It does matter for a school like Duke or Vandy.

how do you know? data?

They can’t supply data because they are wrong. Top schools care mightily about those top scores because they are reported to USNWR and therefore go directly to rankings. For some schools those top scores trigger scholarship offers. My kid received several, unsolicited, when he hit 34 ACT. I was talking to one about the offer and said “oh but he retook and now has a 36” and the officer immediately said “well then we can offer the President's full-ride scholarship!”. Every digit counts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Multiple 1580-1600 kids at our private got in ivies/T20 ED/ED2 this year with lack luster grades. Counselor was surprised.

What is lack luster? Outside top20%?

NP. Lack luster probably means they didn’t have high profile, out of school ECs. Just more normal, high school ECs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m a broken record here but once you hit the threshold, it doesn’t matter for the HYP of the world.

It does matter for a school like Duke or Vandy.

how do you know? data?

They can’t supply data because they are wrong. Top schools care mightily about those top scores because they are reported to USNWR and therefore go directly to rankings. For some schools those top scores trigger scholarship offers. My kid received several, unsolicited, when he hit 34 ACT. I was talking to one about the offer and said “oh but he retook and now has a 36” and the officer immediately said “well then we can offer the President's full-ride scholarship!”. Every digit counts.

This didn't happen.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m a broken record here but once you hit the threshold, it doesn’t matter for the HYP of the world.

It does matter for a school like Duke or Vandy.

It matters too at JHU Penn. That said, they have gotten so many 1580+ applying to JHU and Penn. Sometimes it gives you an illusion that they don't care but they do. Any school outside HYPMS all cares a great deal about your test score.

Those who want to believe that somehow a 1580 is actually viewed differently than a 1570 will keep deluding themselves. Nothing that anyone says will convince them otherwise. Likewise, those who believe that MIT somehow considers a 770 different than a 780 (though both may result from the exact same number of missed questions) because of their bucketing example which was an example rather than a hard rule will likewise never be convinced otherwise.

Others will settle into what the vast majority of informed voices say which is that above a certain point other factors take over.

Pick your poison because neither group is listening to the other but as you pick remember that correlation isn't causation.

Views are changing.

A year ago, people would challenge "somehow a 1580 is actually viewed differently than a 1500 will keep deluding themselves." Now they don't say 1500 anymore. Because they also believe 1580 is different from 1500 in kind.

A 1580 is different than a 1500, it always has been. The rule of thumb was that you were fine once you crossed the bar and that generally still holds true. People who believe that schools look at small gradations in scores to boost USNWR rankings are kidding themselves.

A 1580 isn't any different than a 1560 as they could both result from missing the exact same number of questions depending on the individual test. That is what seems lost to many. People also don't realize that an 800 isn't necessarily perfect and that a miss could result in a 790 or a 800 on a section depending on the individual test. The SAT just isn't granular enough to make the jumps that some want to make.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Other than schools like Caltech?

I have looked at our Naviance, I don’t see a pattern where high test scores help admissions. There is always a healthy distribution of test scores for top schools.

Someone mentioned in the other thread that they help in Michigan admissions. What is your observation at your school?

No

[Anonymous]

consider that there are probably more than 100,000 superscored 1580+ sat scorers applying to college every year, it isn't that impressive of a score.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:consider that there are probably more than 100,000 superscored 1580+ sat scorers applying to college every year, it isn't that impressive of a score.

No! 1580+ remains extremely difficult to get. Superscore doesn’t help in this range.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Multiple 1580-1600 kids at our private got in ivies/T20 ED/ED2 this year with lack luster grades. Counselor was surprised.

What is lack luster? Outside top20%?

Most private schools don’t rank any more and don’t weigh grades. Depending on the context, outside top 20 percentile could mean different things when rigor is considered.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m a broken record here but once you hit the threshold, it doesn’t matter for the HYP of the world.

It does matter for a school like Duke or Vandy.

It matters too at JHU Penn. That said, they have gotten so many 1580+ applying to JHU and Penn. Sometimes it gives you an illusion that they don't care but they do. Any school outside HYPMS all cares a great deal about your test score.

Those who want to believe that somehow a 1580 is actually viewed differently than a 1570 will keep deluding themselves. Nothing that anyone says will convince them otherwise. Likewise, those who believe that MIT somehow considers a 770 different than a 780 (though both may result from the exact same number of missed questions) because of their bucketing example which was an example rather than a hard rule will likewise never be convinced otherwise.

Others will settle into what the vast majority of informed voices say which is that above a certain point other factors take over.

Pick your poison because neither group is listening to the other but as you pick remember that correlation isn't causation.

Views are changing.

A year ago, people would challenge "somehow a 1580 is actually viewed differently than a 1500 will keep deluding themselves." Now they don't say 1500 anymore. Because they also believe 1580 is different from 1500 in kind.

A 1580 is different than a 1500, it always has been. The rule of thumb was that you were fine once you crossed the bar and that generally still holds true. People who believe that schools look at small gradations in scores to boost USNWR rankings are kidding themselves.

A 1580 isn't any different than a 1560 as they could both result from missing the exact same number of questions depending on the individual test. That is what seems lost to many. People also don't realize that an 800 isn't necessarily perfect and that a miss could result in a 790 or a 800 on a section depending on the individual test. The SAT just isn't granular enough to make the jumps that some want to make.

If 1580 isn’t different from 1560, and 1560 isn’t different from 1540, and 1540 isn’t different from 1520, and 1520 isn’t different from 1500, than you would conclude 1580 isn’t different from 1500.

Incremental difference may be small, but the difference is there. Acknowledge it. Be honest.

Maybe your son only got a 1560, that’s fine. It’s already an outstanding score.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m a broken record here but once you hit the threshold, it doesn’t matter for the HYP of the world.

It does matter for a school like Duke or Vandy.

It matters too at JHU Penn. That said, they have gotten so many 1580+ applying to JHU and Penn. Sometimes it gives you an illusion that they don't care but they do. Any school outside HYPMS all cares a great deal about your test score.

Those who want to believe that somehow a 1580 is actually viewed differently than a 1570 will keep deluding themselves. Nothing that anyone says will convince them otherwise. Likewise, those who believe that MIT somehow considers a 770 different than a 780 (though both may result from the exact same number of missed questions) because of their bucketing example which was an example rather than a hard rule will likewise never be convinced otherwise.

Others will settle into what the vast majority of informed voices say which is that above a certain point other factors take over.

Pick your poison because neither group is listening to the other but as you pick remember that correlation isn't causation.

Views are changing.

A year ago, people would challenge "somehow a 1580 is actually viewed differently than a 1500 will keep deluding themselves." Now they don't say 1500 anymore. Because they also believe 1580 is different from 1500 in kind.

A 1580 is different than a 1500, it always has been. The rule of thumb was that you were fine once you crossed the bar and that generally still holds true. People who believe that schools look at small gradations in scores to boost USNWR rankings are kidding themselves.

A 1580 isn't any different than a 1560 as they could both result from missing the exact same number of questions depending on the individual test. That is what seems lost to many. People also don't realize that an 800 isn't necessarily perfect and that a miss could result in a 790 or a 800 on a section depending on the individual test. The SAT just isn't granular enough to make the jumps that some want to make.

If 1580 isn’t different from 1560, and 1560 isn’t different from 1540, and 1540 isn’t different from 1520, and 1520 isn’t different from 1500, than you would conclude 1580 isn’t different from 1500.

Incremental difference may be small, but the difference is there. Acknowledge it. Be honest.

Maybe your son only got a 1560, that’s fine. It’s already an outstanding score.

Pretty obvious that you just don’t get it. Your logic is totally flawed. A 1580 and a 1560 could have zero incremental difference or they could have a small incremental difference. This is the problem, they might be different, not that they are different.

I’m totally honest, I am just highlighting the way the test is designed and scored. It’s not built to be what you want it to be. For that it needs to be longer and probably harder.

A 1560 is a great score, one that I am confident that is higher than any achieved by your kids. You should just take the education, say thank you, and move on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m a broken record here but once you hit the threshold, it doesn’t matter for the HYP of the world.

It does matter for a school like Duke or Vandy.

It matters too at JHU Penn. That said, they have gotten so many 1580+ applying to JHU and Penn. Sometimes it gives you an illusion that they don't care but they do. Any school outside HYPMS all cares a great deal about your test score.

Those who want to believe that somehow a 1580 is actually viewed differently than a 1570 will keep deluding themselves. Nothing that anyone says will convince them otherwise. Likewise, those who believe that MIT somehow considers a 770 different than a 780 (though both may result from the exact same number of missed questions) because of their bucketing example which was an example rather than a hard rule will likewise never be convinced otherwise.

Others will settle into what the vast majority of informed voices say which is that above a certain point other factors take over.

Pick your poison because neither group is listening to the other but as you pick remember that correlation isn't causation.

Views are changing.

A year ago, people would challenge "somehow a 1580 is actually viewed differently than a 1500 will keep deluding themselves." Now they don't say 1500 anymore. Because they also believe 1580 is different from 1500 in kind.

A 1580 is different than a 1500, it always has been. The rule of thumb was that you were fine once you crossed the bar and that generally still holds true. People who believe that schools look at small gradations in scores to boost USNWR rankings are kidding themselves.

A 1580 isn't any different than a 1560 as they could both result from missing the exact same number of questions depending on the individual test. That is what seems lost to many. People also don't realize that an 800 isn't necessarily perfect and that a miss could result in a 790 or a 800 on a section depending on the individual test. The SAT just isn't granular enough to make the jumps that some want to make.

If 1580 isn’t different from 1560, and 1560 isn’t different from 1540, and 1540 isn’t different from 1520, and 1520 isn’t different from 1500, than you would conclude 1580 isn’t different from 1500.

Incremental difference may be small, but the difference is there. Acknowledge it. Be honest.

Maybe your son only got a 1560, that’s fine. It’s already an outstanding score.

Pretty obvious that you just don’t get it. Your logic is totally flawed. A 1580 and a 1560 could have zero incremental difference or they could have a small incremental difference. This is the problem, they might be different, not that they are different.

I’m totally honest, I am just highlighting the way the test is designed and scored. It’s not built to be what you want it to be. For that it needs to be longer and probably harder.

A 1560 is a great score, one that I am confident that is higher than any achieved by your kids. You should just take the education, say thank you, and move on.

Previously you asserted "A 1580 isn't any different than a 1560". Now you conceded "... they have an incremental difference". That's better, I will give you that.

[Anonymous]

In the grand scheme of things, it won't make a material difference. You won't move from one stack to the next just because of an additional 20 points. You've already jumped the hurdle. And, it will never overcome any deficiency in grades/ECs/essays/recs/hooks etc. Focus on the things that will ultimately matter a lot more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:consider that there are probably more than 100,000 superscored 1580+ sat scorers applying to college every year, it isn't that impressive of a score.

No! 1580+ remains extremely difficult to get. Superscore doesn’t help in this range.

+1
Superscore 1580 means you need at least 800 or 790 in one subject. Kids who can do that typically have at least 750 on the other