Does 1580+ help T20 admissions?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Multiple 1580-1600 kids at our private got in ivies/T20 ED/ED2 this year with lack luster grades. Counselor was surprised.

What is lack luster? Outside top20%?

Most private schools don’t rank any more and don’t weigh grades. Depending on the context, outside top 20 percentile could mean different things when rigor is considered.

Confirming are we saying most top private HS now don’t rank, don’t offer AP, don’t give extra points for harder courses, and some don’t even report GPA to colleges? Then how do colleges review applicants among their peers?

Do AOs look at the transcript with letter grades and do their own calculation and ranking? Do they put more points or weight on an A on a harder course vs an earlier grade course?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m a broken record here but once you hit the threshold, it doesn’t matter for the HYP of the world.

It does matter for a school like Duke or Vandy.

It matters too at JHU Penn. That said, they have gotten so many 1580+ applying to JHU and Penn. Sometimes it gives you an illusion that they don't care but they do. Any school outside HYPMS all cares a great deal about your test score.

Those who want to believe that somehow a 1580 is actually viewed differently than a 1570 will keep deluding themselves. Nothing that anyone says will convince them otherwise. Likewise, those who believe that MIT somehow considers a 770 different than a 780 (though both may result from the exact same number of missed questions) because of their bucketing example which was an example rather than a hard rule will likewise never be convinced otherwise.

Others will settle into what the vast majority of informed voices say which is that above a certain point other factors take over.

Pick your poison because neither group is listening to the other but as you pick remember that correlation isn't causation.

Views are changing.

A year ago, people would challenge "somehow a 1580 is actually viewed differently than a 1500 will keep deluding themselves." Now they don't say 1500 anymore. Because they also believe 1580 is different from 1500 in kind.

A 1580 is different than a 1500, it always has been. The rule of thumb was that you were fine once you crossed the bar and that generally still holds true. People who believe that schools look at small gradations in scores to boost USNWR rankings are kidding themselves.

A 1580 isn't any different than a 1560 as they could both result from missing the exact same number of questions depending on the individual test. That is what seems lost to many. People also don't realize that an 800 isn't necessarily perfect and that a miss could result in a 790 or a 800 on a section depending on the individual test. The SAT just isn't granular enough to make the jumps that some want to make.

DP not sure if I agree with this. Caltech makes it clear they put applicants in different SAT score bands in 20 point intervals

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:consider that there are probably more than 100,000 superscored 1580+ sat scorers applying to college every year, it isn't that impressive of a score.

No! 1580+ remains extremely difficult to get. Superscore doesn’t help in this range.

+1
Superscore 1580 means you need at least 800 or 790 in one subject. Kids who can do that typically have at least 750 on the other

There were several at our school who couldn’t cross that hurdle for the verbal. One was being recruited by MIT and JHU and fell off because of it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:consider that there are probably more than 100,000 superscored 1580+ sat scorers applying to college every year, it isn't that impressive of a score.

No! 1580+ remains extremely difficult to get. Superscore doesn’t help in this range.

+1
Superscore 1580 means you need at least 800 or 790 in one subject. Kids who can do that typically have at least 750 on the other

There were several at our school who couldn’t cross that hurdle for the verbal. One was being recruited by MIT and JHU and fell off because of it.

Recruited athletes? They rescinded the offer because the SAT was 20 points too low??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:consider that there are probably more than 100,000 superscored 1580+ sat scorers applying to college every year, it isn't that impressive of a score.

No! 1580+ remains extremely difficult to get. Superscore doesn’t help in this range.

+1
Superscore 1580 means you need at least 800 or 790 in one subject. Kids who can do that typically have at least 750 on the other

There were several at our school who couldn’t cross that hurdle for the verbal. One was being recruited by MIT and JHU and fell off because of it.

Recruited athletes? They rescinded the offer because the SAT was 20 points too low??

Because they couldn’t meet a 750/750 threshold.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Multiple 1580-1600 kids at our private got in ivies/T20 ED/ED2 this year with lack luster grades. Counselor was surprised.

What is lack luster? Outside top20%?

Most private schools don’t rank any more and don’t weigh grades. Depending on the context, outside top 20 percentile could mean different things when rigor is considered.

Confirming are we saying most top private HS now don’t rank, don’t offer AP, don’t give extra points for harder courses, and some don’t even report GPA to colleges? Then how do colleges review applicants among their peers?

Do AOs look at the transcript with letter grades and do their own calculation and ranking? Do they put more points or weight on an A on a harder course vs an earlier grade course?

GPA/test score/rigor/rank is what gets you the foot in the door, but they are not enough for a seat at the table.

Once you meet the academic standard, everything else is what matters: ECs, recommendation, essays, major, geographic diversity, etc.

Once you pass that, class shaping kicks in. You may be accepted, deferred, or waitlisted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:consider that there are probably more than 100,000 superscored 1580+ sat scorers applying to college every year, it isn't that impressive of a score.

No! 1580+ remains extremely difficult to get. Superscore doesn’t help in this range.

+1
Superscore 1580 means you need at least 800 or 790 in one subject. Kids who can do that typically have at least 750 on the other

There were several at our school who couldn’t cross that hurdle for the verbal. One was being recruited by MIT and JHU and fell off because of it.

How could you possibly know that?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Multiple 1580-1600 kids at our private got in ivies/T20 ED/ED2 this year with lack luster grades. Counselor was surprised.

What is lack luster? Outside top20%?

Most private schools don’t rank any more and don’t weigh grades. Depending on the context, outside top 20 percentile could mean different things when rigor is considered.

Confirming are we saying most top private HS now don’t rank, don’t offer AP, don’t give extra points for harder courses, and some don’t even report GPA to colleges? Then how do colleges review applicants among their peers?

Do AOs look at the transcript with letter grades and do their own calculation and ranking? Do they put more points or weight on an A on a harder course vs an earlier grade course?

GPA/test score/rigor/rank is what gets you the foot in the door, but they are not enough for a seat at the table.

Once you meet the academic standard, everything else is what matters: ECs, recommendation, essays, major, geographic diversity, etc.

Once you pass that, class shaping kicks in. You may be accepted, deferred, or waitlisted.

Yes, but PP was asking about how rank is determined when schools don't rank and don't give extra points for harder classes - which is the only way for a college to come up with a meaningful rank when it's not provided. So the question remains, do colleges come up with their own weighted measure to compare students at a school or to they determine rank based on unweighted GPA (which doesn't account for rigor).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Multiple 1580-1600 kids at our private got in ivies/T20 ED/ED2 this year with lack luster grades. Counselor was surprised.

What is lack luster? Outside top20%?

Most private schools don’t rank any more and don’t weigh grades. Depending on the context, outside top 20 percentile could mean different things when rigor is considered.

Confirming are we saying most top private HS now don’t rank, don’t offer AP, don’t give extra points for harder courses, and some don’t even report GPA to colleges? Then how do colleges review applicants among their peers?

Do AOs look at the transcript with letter grades and do their own calculation and ranking? Do they put more points or weight on an A on a harder course vs an earlier grade course?

GPA/test score/rigor/rank is what gets you the foot in the door, but they are not enough for a seat at the table.

Once you meet the academic standard, everything else is what matters: ECs, recommendation, essays, major, geographic diversity, etc.

Once you pass that, class shaping kicks in. You may be accepted, deferred, or waitlisted.

And yet there is still a postiive correlation between incrementally higher SAT scores and admission to to ivy+ schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:consider that there are probably more than 100,000 superscored 1580+ sat scorers applying to college every year, it isn't that impressive of a score.

No! 1580+ remains extremely difficult to get. Superscore doesn’t help in this range.

+1
Superscore 1580 means you need at least 800 or 790 in one subject. Kids who can do that typically have at least 750 on the other

There were several at our school who couldn’t cross that hurdle for the verbal. One was being recruited by MIT and JHU and fell off because of it.

How could you possibly know that?

My kid played for a top 20 HS program at an elite athletics HS. She also played for a nationally ranked club. Recruiting isn’t secret in these circumstances. She was also recruited by both of the mentioned schools so we know the standards well. It is a very different environment that isn’t well understood by those on the outside.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Multiple 1580-1600 kids at our private got in ivies/T20 ED/ED2 this year with lack luster grades. Counselor was surprised.

What is lack luster? Outside top20%?

Most private schools don’t rank any more and don’t weigh grades. Depending on the context, outside top 20 percentile could mean different things when rigor is considered.

Confirming are we saying most top private HS now don’t rank, don’t offer AP, don’t give extra points for harder courses, and some don’t even report GPA to colleges? Then how do colleges review applicants among their peers?

Do AOs look at the transcript with letter grades and do their own calculation and ranking? Do they put more points or weight on an A on a harder course vs an earlier grade course?

Among their same school peers, the teacher and counselor recommendations do heavy lifting on differentiating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Multiple 1580-1600 kids at our private got in ivies/T20 ED/ED2 this year with lack luster grades. Counselor was surprised.

What is lack luster? Outside top20%?

Most private schools don’t rank any more and don’t weigh grades. Depending on the context, outside top 20 percentile could mean different things when rigor is considered.

Confirming are we saying most top private HS now don’t rank, don’t offer AP, don’t give extra points for harder courses, and some don’t even report GPA to colleges? Then how do colleges review applicants among their peers?

Do AOs look at the transcript with letter grades and do their own calculation and ranking? Do they put more points or weight on an A on a harder course vs an earlier grade course?

GPA/test score/rigor/rank is what gets you the foot in the door, but they are not enough for a seat at the table.

Once you meet the academic standard, everything else is what matters: ECs, recommendation, essays, major, geographic diversity, etc.

Once you pass that, class shaping kicks in. You may be accepted, deferred, or waitlisted.

Yes, but PP was asking about how rank is determined when schools don't rank and don't give extra points for harder classes - which is the only way for a college to come up with a meaningful rank when it's not provided. So the question remains, do colleges come up with their own weighted measure to compare students at a school or to they determine rank based on unweighted GPA (which doesn't account for rigor).

They get a School Profile from the college counselor that gives them pretty much all they need to know to assess rigor, class averages, etc. and then they get letters to flesh it out. Most schools give you access to the School Proflie.

[Anonymous]

Outside oversubscribed majors, a high score like this definitely helps with T20 admissions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:consider that there are probably more than 100,000 superscored 1580+ sat scorers applying to college every year, it isn't that impressive of a score.

No! 1580+ remains extremely difficult to get. Superscore doesn’t help in this range.

+1
Superscore 1580 means you need at least 800 or 790 in one subject. Kids who can do that typically have at least 750 on the other

There were several at our school who couldn’t cross that hurdle for the verbal. One was being recruited by MIT and JHU and fell off because of it.

How could you possibly know that?

My kid was recruited by both schools and offered support at MIT. Her school is a national powerhouse in multiple sports. There are kids from her club at MIT, JHU, Harvard, Swarthmore, Middlebury, Pomona, etc. I am one of the recruiting coordinator’s for her club. I know the high academic recruiting process extremely well for her particular sport.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m a broken record here but once you hit the threshold, it doesn’t matter for the HYP of the world.

It does matter for a school like Duke or Vandy.

It matters too at JHU Penn. That said, they have gotten so many 1580+ applying to JHU and Penn. Sometimes it gives you an illusion that they don't care but they do. Any school outside HYPMS all cares a great deal about your test score.

Those who want to believe that somehow a 1580 is actually viewed differently than a 1570 will keep deluding themselves. Nothing that anyone says will convince them otherwise. Likewise, those who believe that MIT somehow considers a 770 different than a 780 (though both may result from the exact same number of missed questions) because of their bucketing example which was an example rather than a hard rule will likewise never be convinced otherwise.

Others will settle into what the vast majority of informed voices say which is that above a certain point other factors take over.

Pick your poison because neither group is listening to the other but as you pick remember that correlation isn't causation.

Views are changing.

A year ago, people would challenge "somehow a 1580 is actually viewed differently than a 1500 will keep deluding themselves." Now they don't say 1500 anymore. Because they also believe 1580 is different from 1500 in kind.

A 1580 is different than a 1500, it always has been. The rule of thumb was that you were fine once you crossed the bar and that generally still holds true. People who believe that schools look at small gradations in scores to boost USNWR rankings are kidding themselves.

A 1580 isn't any different than a 1560 as they could both result from missing the exact same number of questions depending on the individual test. That is what seems lost to many. People also don't realize that an 800 isn't necessarily perfect and that a miss could result in a 790 or a 800 on a section depending on the individual test. The SAT just isn't granular enough to make the jumps that some want to make.

DP not sure if I agree with this. Caltech makes it clear they put applicants in different SAT score bands in 20 point intervals

I wonder if a bunch of people misunderstood Caltech methodology. If you score an 780-800 on each subject test, they put you in the highest band. Therefore you could score a 780 on both sections, and your score of 1560 would not be differentiated in any way from a 1600.

But 1560 isn't exactly a magic cutoff either. You could score an 800 on one section and a 760 on another, and you would be in the highest band for one section and not the highest band the other.