MIL cuts us off, then demands holiday access. Advice?

[Anonymous]

This was my mother in law over 40 years ago

After 15 years of this I told DH he was to handle all communication and get togethers with kids and her and us


Whelp DH didn’t handle it he ignored her and she was out of our lives

She died recently and I asked him if he was sad he said “ life is fir the living living should be joyful if possible she only brought drama nope not sad”

I felt bad for my kids who are all adults now they seem fine

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have a BPD or NPD MIL and have been married 25 years with kids who are now older teens or grown. Here are my thoughts —
1) even though my husband hates his mom, if I saw word one, I become the bad guy. So I really really avoid making this a thing.
2) these people feed on drama. Don’t feed the drama, to greatest extent possible. Your declaring bright line or boundary will feed the drama. So decide your limits but never announce them as limits.
3) the kids will notice more if you are like “we don’t see grandma anymore” than if you just quiet fade or don’t see her a ton. Occasionally one of my kids will say “why don’t we visit grandma” and I’m like “yeah, maybe we will.” But of course we won’t and they drop it because most teens really aren’t that psyched to spend tons od time with difficult weird grandma anyway.
4) ageee with Pp that your easiest play is probably to just decide to do a holiday meal with her someplace, where she will need to modify her behavior. We lalways do a meal out with my MiL and her husband. And if she’s like my MiL, part of what she really wants here is to be able to tell her friends how she spends time with the grandkids and got them something blah blah … so if she can say “oh, John took me out to Morton’s for a wonderful Christmas Eve dinner with the kids”, that will scratch that itch at least in part.

Thanks for sharing this perspective.

#1 is definitely my experience, too, though I don’t become the bad guy, my husband just sort of sulks.

I am leaning towards #4 being what meeting then in the middle will look like. But I’d love your thoughts on how to suggest #4 while honoring #2, because the shift from gathering at our home for the day to meeting for just dinner at a restaurant will definitely be felt by MIL. How do we do this without cultivating drama?

—OP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a BPD or NPD MIL and have been married 25 years with kids who are now older teens or grown. Here are my thoughts —
1) even though my husband hates his mom, if I saw word one, I become the bad guy. So I really really avoid making this a thing.
2) these people feed on drama. Don’t feed the drama, to greatest extent possible. Your declaring bright line or boundary will feed the drama. So decide your limits but never announce them as limits.
3) the kids will notice more if you are like “we don’t see grandma anymore” than if you just quiet fade or don’t see her a ton. Occasionally one of my kids will say “why don’t we visit grandma” and I’m like “yeah, maybe we will.” But of course we won’t and they drop it because most teens really aren’t that psyched to spend tons od time with difficult weird grandma anyway.
4) ageee with Pp that your easiest play is probably to just decide to do a holiday meal with her someplace, where she will need to modify her behavior. We lalways do a meal out with my MiL and her husband. And if she’s like my MiL, part of what she really wants here is to be able to tell her friends how she spends time with the grandkids and got them something blah blah … so if she can say “oh, John took me out to Morton’s for a wonderful Christmas Eve dinner with the kids”, that will scratch that itch at least in part.

Thanks for sharing this perspective.

#1 is definitely my experience, too, though I don’t become the bad guy, my husband just sort of sulks.

I am leaning towards #4 being what meeting then in the middle will look like. But I’d love your thoughts on how to suggest #4 while honoring #2, because the shift from gathering at our home for the day to meeting for just dinner at a restaurant will definitely be felt by MIL. How do we do this without cultivating drama?

—OP

I kinda think you have to wait until next year to change up the Xmas plan without creating drama, unless you're a very last-minute plans type of family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a BPD or NPD MIL and have been married 25 years with kids who are now older teens or grown. Here are my thoughts —
1) even though my husband hates his mom, if I saw word one, I become the bad guy. So I really really avoid making this a thing.
2) these people feed on drama. Don’t feed the drama, to greatest extent possible. Your declaring bright line or boundary will feed the drama. So decide your limits but never announce them as limits.
3) the kids will notice more if you are like “we don’t see grandma anymore” than if you just quiet fade or don’t see her a ton. Occasionally one of my kids will say “why don’t we visit grandma” and I’m like “yeah, maybe we will.” But of course we won’t and they drop it because most teens really aren’t that psyched to spend tons od time with difficult weird grandma anyway.
4) ageee with Pp that your easiest play is probably to just decide to do a holiday meal with her someplace, where she will need to modify her behavior. We lalways do a meal out with my MiL and her husband. And if she’s like my MiL, part of what she really wants here is to be able to tell her friends how she spends time with the grandkids and got them something blah blah … so if she can say “oh, John took me out to Morton’s for a wonderful Christmas Eve dinner with the kids”, that will scratch that itch at least in part.

Thanks for sharing this perspective.

#1 is definitely my experience, too, though I don’t become the bad guy, my husband just sort of sulks.

I am leaning towards #4 being what meeting then in the middle will look like. But I’d love your thoughts on how to suggest #4 while honoring #2, because the shift from gathering at our home for the day to meeting for just dinner at a restaurant will definitely be felt by MIL. How do we do this without cultivating drama?

—OP

I kinda think you have to wait until next year to change up the Xmas plan without creating drama, unless you're a very last-minute plans type of family.

Under normal circumstances, we are last minute planners, but considering we haven’t been speaking, this year is anything but typical.

—OP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a BPD or NPD MIL and have been married 25 years with kids who are now older teens or grown. Here are my thoughts —
1) even though my husband hates his mom, if I saw word one, I become the bad guy. So I really really avoid making this a thing.
2) these people feed on drama. Don’t feed the drama, to greatest extent possible. Your declaring bright line or boundary will feed the drama. So decide your limits but never announce them as limits.
3) the kids will notice more if you are like “we don’t see grandma anymore” than if you just quiet fade or don’t see her a ton. Occasionally one of my kids will say “why don’t we visit grandma” and I’m like “yeah, maybe we will.” But of course we won’t and they drop it because most teens really aren’t that psyched to spend tons od time with difficult weird grandma anyway.
4) ageee with Pp that your easiest play is probably to just decide to do a holiday meal with her someplace, where she will need to modify her behavior. We lalways do a meal out with my MiL and her husband. And if she’s like my MiL, part of what she really wants here is to be able to tell her friends how she spends time with the grandkids and got them something blah blah … so if she can say “oh, John took me out to Morton’s for a wonderful Christmas Eve dinner with the kids”, that will scratch that itch at least in part.

Thanks for sharing this perspective.

#1 is definitely my experience, too, though I don’t become the bad guy, my husband just sort of sulks.

I am leaning towards #4 being what meeting then in the middle will look like. But I’d love your thoughts on how to suggest #4 while honoring #2, because the shift from gathering at our home for the day to meeting for just dinner at a restaurant will definitely be felt by MIL. How do we do this without cultivating drama?

—OP

I’m a different poster than the PP but have responded a few times on your thread. I think you seem very anxious or hesitant or both to do anything different at all. I think you should address that with yourself before deciding what to do.

For example you were even hesitant / anxious at the thought of having MIL over like normal , but then doing normal
Holiday things around the house with your husband and kids instead of sitting in the living room next to her the whole
Time. This is such a minor change - why does it feel unsurmountable to you? I think once you look inside yourself and figure out why making any change at all is so hard, before deciding on which changes to make. Because you’ve had a ton of (IMO) decent ideas for changing things up but for each one, you seem unsure how you can pull it off. When, to me, some of these changes don’t even fall into the category of needing to be “pulled off”, they’re so minor!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a BPD or NPD MIL and have been married 25 years with kids who are now older teens or grown. Here are my thoughts —
1) even though my husband hates his mom, if I saw word one, I become the bad guy. So I really really avoid making this a thing.
2) these people feed on drama. Don’t feed the drama, to greatest extent possible. Your declaring bright line or boundary will feed the drama. So decide your limits but never announce them as limits.
3) the kids will notice more if you are like “we don’t see grandma anymore” than if you just quiet fade or don’t see her a ton. Occasionally one of my kids will say “why don’t we visit grandma” and I’m like “yeah, maybe we will.” But of course we won’t and they drop it because most teens really aren’t that psyched to spend tons od time with difficult weird grandma anyway.
4) ageee with Pp that your easiest play is probably to just decide to do a holiday meal with her someplace, where she will need to modify her behavior. We lalways do a meal out with my MiL and her husband. And if she’s like my MiL, part of what she really wants here is to be able to tell her friends how she spends time with the grandkids and got them something blah blah … so if she can say “oh, John took me out to Morton’s for a wonderful Christmas Eve dinner with the kids”, that will scratch that itch at least in part.

Thanks for sharing this perspective.

#1 is definitely my experience, too, though I don’t become the bad guy, my husband just sort of sulks.

I am leaning towards #4 being what meeting then in the middle will look like. But I’d love your thoughts on how to suggest #4 while honoring #2, because the shift from gathering at our home for the day to meeting for just dinner at a restaurant will definitely be felt by MIL. How do we do this without cultivating drama?

—OP

I kinda think you have to wait until next year to change up the Xmas plan without creating drama, unless you're a very last-minute plans type of family.

Under normal circumstances, we are last minute planners, but considering we haven’t been speaking, this year is anything but typical.

—OP

But I thought it was her pattern to routinely not speak with you guys and then comeback around the holidays? So isn’t this actually pretty typical??? When she reaches out just be like “hi Mary! Nice to hear from you. We are planning on a Christmas Day lunch at XYZ this year, would you like to join us?” It’s not like you’ve been in frequent contact discussing Christmas plans, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a BPD or NPD MIL and have been married 25 years with kids who are now older teens or grown. Here are my thoughts —
1) even though my husband hates his mom, if I saw word one, I become the bad guy. So I really really avoid making this a thing.
2) these people feed on drama. Don’t feed the drama, to greatest extent possible. Your declaring bright line or boundary will feed the drama. So decide your limits but never announce them as limits.
3) the kids will notice more if you are like “we don’t see grandma anymore” than if you just quiet fade or don’t see her a ton. Occasionally one of my kids will say “why don’t we visit grandma” and I’m like “yeah, maybe we will.” But of course we won’t and they drop it because most teens really aren’t that psyched to spend tons od time with difficult weird grandma anyway.
4) ageee with Pp that your easiest play is probably to just decide to do a holiday meal with her someplace, where she will need to modify her behavior. We lalways do a meal out with my MiL and her husband. And if she’s like my MiL, part of what she really wants here is to be able to tell her friends how she spends time with the grandkids and got them something blah blah … so if she can say “oh, John took me out to Morton’s for a wonderful Christmas Eve dinner with the kids”, that will scratch that itch at least in part.

Thanks for sharing this perspective.

#1 is definitely my experience, too, though I don’t become the bad guy, my husband just sort of sulks.

I am leaning towards #4 being what meeting then in the middle will look like. But I’d love your thoughts on how to suggest #4 while honoring #2, because the shift from gathering at our home for the day to meeting for just dinner at a restaurant will definitely be felt by MIL. How do we do this without cultivating drama?

—OP

I kinda think you have to wait until next year to change up the Xmas plan without creating drama, unless you're a very last-minute plans type of family.

Under normal circumstances, we are last minute planners, but considering we haven’t been speaking, this year is anything but typical.

—OP

But I thought it was her pattern to routinely not speak with you guys and then comeback around the holidays? So isn’t this actually pretty typical??? When she reaches out just be like “hi Mary! Nice to hear from you. We are planning on a Christmas Day lunch at XYZ this year, would you like to join us?” It’s not like you’ve been in frequent contact discussing Christmas plans, right?

Right? It’s either like this all the time or it’s not. How can the kids feel “abandoned” when she’s half in/half out? They probably don’t care one way or the other if she’s there or not since they’re not used to a typical doting grandmother. She is who she is, trying to punish her isn’t going to change anything. She’s a grandma who wants to show up at birthdays and holidays, like many others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a BPD or NPD MIL and have been married 25 years with kids who are now older teens or grown. Here are my thoughts —
1) even though my husband hates his mom, if I saw word one, I become the bad guy. So I really really avoid making this a thing.
2) these people feed on drama. Don’t feed the drama, to greatest extent possible. Your declaring bright line or boundary will feed the drama. So decide your limits but never announce them as limits.
3) the kids will notice more if you are like “we don’t see grandma anymore” than if you just quiet fade or don’t see her a ton. Occasionally one of my kids will say “why don’t we visit grandma” and I’m like “yeah, maybe we will.” But of course we won’t and they drop it because most teens really aren’t that psyched to spend tons od time with difficult weird grandma anyway.
4) ageee with Pp that your easiest play is probably to just decide to do a holiday meal with her someplace, where she will need to modify her behavior. We lalways do a meal out with my MiL and her husband. And if she’s like my MiL, part of what she really wants here is to be able to tell her friends how she spends time with the grandkids and got them something blah blah … so if she can say “oh, John took me out to Morton’s for a wonderful Christmas Eve dinner with the kids”, that will scratch that itch at least in part.

Thanks for sharing this perspective.

#1 is definitely my experience, too, though I don’t become the bad guy, my husband just sort of sulks.

I am leaning towards #4 being what meeting then in the middle will look like. But I’d love your thoughts on how to suggest #4 while honoring #2, because the shift from gathering at our home for the day to meeting for just dinner at a restaurant will definitely be felt by MIL. How do we do this without cultivating drama?

—OP

I kinda think you have to wait until next year to change up the Xmas plan without creating drama, unless you're a very last-minute plans type of family.

Under normal circumstances, we are last minute planners, but considering we haven’t been speaking, this year is anything but typical.

—OP

If you haven't arranged plans yet, so it's not like you'll be changing it up 2 weeks before Xmas, it's probably fine. Assuming you can find a restaurant, you can just tell her that's what you're doing this year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Banish her from the house. Your DH can go visit if he wants.

And that cycle will repeat when OP has a DIL because she herself has taught her kids that is okay.

People in these forums never seem to understand what they are teaching their own kids about cutting off relationships when they so casually do it themselves.

You again. Do you live on dcum?

Your post is utter bullsht. Op will not behave like her insane mil. It's a good thing to teach children that they don't have to tolerate abusive behavior. Op has been clear that she acts out in abusive ways then crawls back and acts like a child. This behavior probably ruins every holiday they are together.a

I wouldn't invite her to anything. If dh insists, do one round of politeness then ignore her completely when she acts like a selfish baby. Don't give her any attention at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Banish her from the house. Your DH can go visit if he wants.

And that cycle will repeat when OP has a DIL because she herself has taught her kids that is okay.

People in these forums never seem to understand what they are teaching their own kids about cutting off relationships when they so casually do it themselves.

You again. Do you live on dcum?

Your post is utter bullsht. Op will not behave like her insane mil. It's a good thing to teach children that they don't have to tolerate abusive behavior. Op has been clear that she acts out in abusive ways then crawls back and acts like a child. This behavior probably ruins every holiday they are together.a

I wouldn't invite her to anything. If dh insists, do one round of politeness then ignore her completely when she acts like a selfish baby. Don't give her any attention at all.

DP.

What's the abusive behavior towards the kids? Did MIL tell the kids anything? If not, OP's DH can tell his mom they are not having her over fir Christmas but she can talk to her grandkids on the phone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s not abandonment if she never actually leaves or go no contact. I would treat pronouncements like this similar to when 5-6 year olds declare they are running away. It’s a way to say they are very upset when they don’t have the maturity/emotional health to manage hurt feelings more constructively. It’s up to you to decide whether she brings more good than not, but I definitely wouldn’t base anything from her “going no contact” since that doesn’t happen.

I hate these analogies. Yes, developmentally, if my 5 year old says she hates me and is going to run away, I am unbothered and I still cook her dinner and put her to bed with a kiss. My 68 year old MIL is not my 5 year old daughter. If she tells me she doesn’t like me and is going to not visit us for a few months until she can stand to be around me again, that’s not the same thing. At all. And I’m not going to put up with being treated that way by another adult who then comes crawling back and wanting things from me at Christmas. No.

+1,000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The anti-MIL posts have become so extreme to the point of being comical.

It is comical how horrible boomers are, I agree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe just let her come and go as she pleases but don't give in to the drama. Don't change plans for her, don't make special plans for her, and don't act like it's a big deal if and when she shows up. She's seeking attention and to upend your lives . . . don't give her oxygen.

During her “re-entry”, though, she acts like a wounded animal, cowering in corners and just acting generally uneasy, like someone may yell at her. It creates an incredibly uncomfortable situation, and my kids are old enough to pick up on the awkwardness. I don’t want every holiday to be shrouded in this tension. It’s not fair to them, or to us.

—OP

Let her come over and be awkward. You continue to do you, and you don't give in to her attention-seeking behavior. She wants you to argue with you, she wants to control your emotions, she wants you to ask her what's wrong. Don't.

I'm not OP but why does she have to let her MIL come over and be awkward? Why isn't OP entitled to NOT have that in her life?

I'm sensing that many of you may not have dealt with people like this before. It's not as simple as just allowing them to come and go as they please. If the MIL could do that then OP wouldn't be in this position in the first place!

What is this entitled nonsense? It's not a panhandler from the street. It's her husband's mother and the only person who gets a say in that other than OP is him. There's nothing anyone can say but figure it out with your husband. OP is not "entitled" to dictate his relationships with his mom.

No, she's not entitled to dictate what her husband does about his mother. But she is entitled to make her own decisions regarding spending time around her. Or do you disagree with that as well?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe just let her come and go as she pleases but don't give in to the drama. Don't change plans for her, don't make special plans for her, and don't act like it's a big deal if and when she shows up. She's seeking attention and to upend your lives . . . don't give her oxygen.

During her “re-entry”, though, she acts like a wounded animal, cowering in corners and just acting generally uneasy, like someone may yell at her. It creates an incredibly uncomfortable situation, and my kids are old enough to pick up on the awkwardness. I don’t want every holiday to be shrouded in this tension. It’s not fair to them, or to us.

—OP

Let her come over and be awkward. You continue to do you, and you don't give in to her attention-seeking behavior. She wants you to argue with you, she wants to control your emotions, she wants you to ask her what's wrong. Don't.

I'm not OP but why does she have to let her MIL come over and be awkward? Why isn't OP entitled to NOT have that in her life?

I'm sensing that many of you may not have dealt with people like this before. It's not as simple as just allowing them to come and go as they please. If the MIL could do that then OP wouldn't be in this position in the first place!

What is this entitled nonsense? It's not a panhandler from the street. It's her husband's mother and the only person who gets a say in that other than OP is him. There's nothing anyone can say but figure it out with your husband. OP is not "entitled" to dictate his relationships with his mom.

You’re right. He can invite whomever he wants to the house, and OP can take herself and her children elsewhere.

That is feeding the drama which violates the first commandment of dealing with a narcissist.

No it's not. Find a therapist who would say that. You have no idea what you're talking about. Removing yourself from a situation isn't feeding the drama and if it makes the narcissist act dramatically, that is NOT a reason to not do it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe just let her come and go as she pleases but don't give in to the drama. Don't change plans for her, don't make special plans for her, and don't act like it's a big deal if and when she shows up. She's seeking attention and to upend your lives . . . don't give her oxygen.

During her “re-entry”, though, she acts like a wounded animal, cowering in corners and just acting generally uneasy, like someone may yell at her. It creates an incredibly uncomfortable situation, and my kids are old enough to pick up on the awkwardness. I don’t want every holiday to be shrouded in this tension. It’s not fair to them, or to us.

—OP

Let her come over and be awkward. You continue to do you, and you don't give in to her attention-seeking behavior. She wants you to argue with you, she wants to control your emotions, she wants you to ask her what's wrong. Don't.

I'm not OP but why does she have to let her MIL come over and be awkward? Why isn't OP entitled to NOT have that in her life?

I'm sensing that many of you may not have dealt with people like this before. It's not as simple as just allowing them to come and go as they please. If the MIL could do that then OP wouldn't be in this position in the first place!

What is this entitled nonsense? It's not a panhandler from the street. It's her husband's mother and the only person who gets a say in that other than OP is him. There's nothing anyone can say but figure it out with your husband. OP is not "entitled" to dictate his relationships with his mom.

No, she's not entitled to dictate what her husband does about his mother. But she is entitled to make her own decisions regarding spending time around her. Or do you disagree with that as well?

Yes and she makes bad ones. Just carry on with her life and let MIL do what she will quietly in a chair. It's not hard.