Accommodation Nation

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a professor in the humanities, I find that my students tend to do worse psychologically with assignments hanging over their heads. Because they have a syllabus with due dates, they report being better off planning in advance and not taking advantage of extended times. This avoids having a pile of assignments due at the end of the semester from multiple classes. I also give a lot of time for in-class quizzes, so students generally don't need to go to the disability center to take their quizzes.
And, yes, processing speed is part of an overall picture of intelligence, but not all of it. If you have two children who have the same verbal and math reasoning "scores" on intelligence tests, but one is able to complete the same questions in half the time as another student is at an distinct advantage. The quicker child can simply take in far more data in a given amount of time than the other.

Intelligence tests are timed. It’s kind of the whole point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At my school (named directly in the article), most of the students I know with accommodations were playing up allergies/asthma to get permission to have AC units in their rooms. Those numbers are extremely overinflated.

Damn, these schools charging 90-100k a year really need to be giving everyone an AC unit.

Ha!
Yes my son had a friend that wanted a single to screw his GF all the time so tried to get special accommodations. This was an Ivy…but yeah a lot are for housing reasons.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:At my school (named directly in the article), most of the students I know with accommodations were playing up allergies/asthma to get permission to have AC units in their rooms. Those numbers are extremely overinflated.

Same

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm all for accommodations, but the gaming of SATs and ACTs is real.

Easily solved! Just make those tests untimed or add an hour so they're basically untimed.

The scoring distribution relies on the timing of the test. Without it, you have no standardized test (time and a half is, for the same reason, invalid, but colleges don’t seem to care).

[Anonymous]

The Olympics has weightlifting competitions, 100m track stars, bobsled, etc. It is understood that different athletes can be gifted with strength, speed, technique, etc. I think knowledge and processing speed are different skills, and accommodations do end up obscuring speed.

Some kids are gifted by being very quick, and unfortunately for them, that can no longer be seen in their test scores as the standardized tests have gotten shorter and more of their classmates have accommodations.

Whether a college decides to select for speed is a different question. It used to be measured and now it is not.

[Anonymous]

It appears to be measured for some and not for the rich.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a professor in the humanities, I find that my students tend to do worse psychologically with assignments hanging over their heads. Because they have a syllabus with due dates, they report being better off planning in advance and not taking advantage of extended times. This avoids having a pile of assignments due at the end of the semester from multiple classes. I also give a lot of time for in-class quizzes, so students generally don't need to go to the disability center to take their quizzes.
And, yes, processing speed is part of an overall picture of intelligence, but not all of it. If you have two children who have the same verbal and math reasoning "scores" on intelligence tests, but one is able to complete the same questions in half the time as another student is at an distinct advantage. The quicker child can simply take in far more data in a given amount of time than the other.

Intelligence tests are timed. It’s kind of the whole point.

Damn, you really know nothing about psychometrics. You can score incredibly high on an IQ test, and that is actually the basis for why you're entitled to extended time. There's a significant disparity (like multiple standard deviations) between your IQ sub scores or a significant disparity between intelligence test scoring and achievement test scoring. Numerous IQ subtests are not timed. I think the vast majority, actually. I think the only timed one is block design, but there could be others I'm not thinking of.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a professor in the humanities, I find that my students tend to do worse psychologically with assignments hanging over their heads. Because they have a syllabus with due dates, they report being better off planning in advance and not taking advantage of extended times. This avoids having a pile of assignments due at the end of the semester from multiple classes. I also give a lot of time for in-class quizzes, so students generally don't need to go to the disability center to take their quizzes.
And, yes, processing speed is part of an overall picture of intelligence, but not all of it. If you have two children who have the same verbal and math reasoning "scores" on intelligence tests, but one is able to complete the same questions in half the time as another student is at an distinct advantage. The quicker child can simply take in far more data in a given amount of time than the other.

Intelligence tests are timed. It’s kind of the whole point.

Damn, you really know nothing about psychometrics. You can score incredibly high on an IQ test, and that is actually the basis for why you're entitled to extended time. There's a significant disparity (like multiple standard deviations) between your IQ sub scores or a significant disparity between intelligence test scoring and achievement test scoring. Numerous IQ subtests are not timed. I think the vast majority, actually. I think the only timed one is block design, but there could be others I'm not thinking of.

Right, but IQ tests are not being reported to colleges. Just SAT/ACT tests and GPAs, all of which test specific knowledge... where more time to think generally helps most people, disabled or not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a professor in the humanities, I find that my students tend to do worse psychologically with assignments hanging over their heads. Because they have a syllabus with due dates, they report being better off planning in advance and not taking advantage of extended times. This avoids having a pile of assignments due at the end of the semester from multiple classes. I also give a lot of time for in-class quizzes, so students generally don't need to go to the disability center to take their quizzes.
And, yes, processing speed is part of an overall picture of intelligence, but not all of it. If you have two children who have the same verbal and math reasoning "scores" on intelligence tests, but one is able to complete the same questions in half the time as another student is at an distinct advantage. The quicker child can simply take in far more data in a given amount of time than the other.

Intelligence tests are timed. It’s kind of the whole point.

Damn, you really know nothing about psychometrics. You can score incredibly high on an IQ test, and that is actually the basis for why you're entitled to extended time. There's a significant disparity (like multiple standard deviations) between your IQ sub scores or a significant disparity between intelligence test scoring and achievement test scoring. Numerous IQ subtests are not timed. I think the vast majority, actually. I think the only timed one is block design, but there could be others I'm not thinking of.

Right, but IQ tests are not being reported to colleges. Just SAT/ACT tests and GPAs, all of which test specific knowledge... where more time to think generally helps most people, disabled or not.

You were talking about intelligence tests. Neither the SAT nor the ACT are intelligence tests. They're achievement tests. Again, this shows how little you know about the subject.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a professor in the humanities, I find that my students tend to do worse psychologically with assignments hanging over their heads. Because they have a syllabus with due dates, they report being better off planning in advance and not taking advantage of extended times. This avoids having a pile of assignments due at the end of the semester from multiple classes. I also give a lot of time for in-class quizzes, so students generally don't need to go to the disability center to take their quizzes.
And, yes, processing speed is part of an overall picture of intelligence, but not all of it. If you have two children who have the same verbal and math reasoning "scores" on intelligence tests, but one is able to complete the same questions in half the time as another student is at an distinct advantage. The quicker child can simply take in far more data in a given amount of time than the other.

Intelligence tests are timed. It’s kind of the whole point.

Damn, you really know nothing about psychometrics. You can score incredibly high on an IQ test, and that is actually the basis for why you're entitled to extended time. There's a significant disparity (like multiple standard deviations) between your IQ sub scores or a significant disparity between intelligence test scoring and achievement test scoring. Numerous IQ subtests are not timed. I think the vast majority, actually. I think the only timed one is block design, but there could be others I'm not thinking of.

Right, but IQ tests are not being reported to colleges. Just SAT/ACT tests and GPAs, all of which test specific knowledge... where more time to think generally helps most people, disabled or not.

You were talking about intelligence tests. Neither the SAT nor the ACT are intelligence tests. They're achievement tests. Again, this shows how little you know about the subject.

Different poster, but I think this is part of the problem. Some schools are genuinely looking for raw intellectual horsepower, and they don't know how to find it anymore. Kids are paying to take the SAT eight times, they have extra time, everyone has a 4.6 GPA. So schools are looking for raw intellect in Olympiads and such, which are ECs that mostly upper-middle class and wealthy kids prep for and participate in.

There's obviously some negative societal implications, but I could see a case for offering true aptitude tests again. It might pull up some lower socioeconomic students who just don't have the time and/or resources to study the same way wealthier kids do. They have the IQ but no way to show it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I remember this from law school. The only “kid” with an accommodation was the “bro” with the rich family. All this sssst about “slow processing” and specific versions of “adhd” that just amount to “let my kid take the test at their own speed but yours has to do it timed.” More for the rich, once again, undermining the truly needy.

Yes. I have really been struggling with the explosion in ADHD diagnoses in recent years because my law school experience was a lot of rich, privileged kids recommending doctors who would give them an ADHD diagnosis no questions asked so they could get stimulants without having to find a dealer before exams.

I also had a roommate in law school who invented a carpal tunnel diagnosis that her doctor father gave her so that she could be assigned a notetaker who would compile notes for all her classes, and get unlimited time for exams. She was pretty up front that she'd faked it to get an edge. I was horrified but most people didn't seem to care. "Don't hate the player, hate the game" as they say.

Rich kids have been playing this game for a while, it's just gotten more elaborate and universities started playing alone way too easily in an effort to be "inclusive." It's mostly BS.

[Anonymous]

The problem is the neuropsychological exams are hard to get (waiting lists etc) and expensive. Like several thousand dollars. So kids who need them often can't get them unless their parents are rich.

We need the public school system paying for more of these tests for kids who are not rich.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a professor in the humanities, I find that my students tend to do worse psychologically with assignments hanging over their heads. Because they have a syllabus with due dates, they report being better off planning in advance and not taking advantage of extended times. This avoids having a pile of assignments due at the end of the semester from multiple classes. I also give a lot of time for in-class quizzes, so students generally don't need to go to the disability center to take their quizzes.
And, yes, processing speed is part of an overall picture of intelligence, but not all of it. If you have two children who have the same verbal and math reasoning "scores" on intelligence tests, but one is able to complete the same questions in half the time as another student is at an distinct advantage. The quicker child can simply take in far more data in a given amount of time than the other.

Intelligence tests are timed. It’s kind of the whole point.

Damn, you really know nothing about psychometrics. You can score incredibly high on an IQ test, and that is actually the basis for why you're entitled to extended time. There's a significant disparity (like multiple standard deviations) between your IQ sub scores or a significant disparity between intelligence test scoring and achievement test scoring. Numerous IQ subtests are not timed. I think the vast majority, actually. I think the only timed one is block design, but there could be others I'm not thinking of.

Yeah, no. You don’t know what you are talking about. The basis for “extended time” is the discrepancy between academic achievement and an IQ test only when adequate academic progress is not being made. . The vast majority of IQ tests have a timed component. The fact that you do not know that is, to say the least, revealing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I remember this from law school. The only “kid” with an accommodation was the “bro” with the rich family. All this sssst about “slow processing” and specific versions of “adhd” that just amount to “let my kid take the test at their own speed but yours has to do it timed.” More for the rich, once again, undermining the truly needy.

Yes. I have really been struggling with the explosion in ADHD diagnoses in recent years because my law school experience was a lot of rich, privileged kids recommending doctors who would give them an ADHD diagnosis no questions asked so they could get stimulants without having to find a dealer before exams.

I also had a roommate in law school who invented a carpal tunnel diagnosis that her doctor father gave her so that she could be assigned a notetaker who would compile notes for all her classes, and get unlimited time for exams. She was pretty up front that she'd faked it to get an edge. I was horrified but most people didn't seem to care. "Don't hate the player, hate the game" as they say.

Rich kids have been playing this game for a while, it's just gotten more elaborate and universities started playing alone way too easily in an effort to be "inclusive." It's mostly BS.

I just wanted to say that carpal tunnel is a valid diagnosis. Also, I seriously doubt your friend had unlimited time. It was most likely time and a half.

I have accommodations for repetitive stress injuries (the umbrella under which carpal tunnel falls) in law school. I had time and a half and a typist, because I had to dictate my exams. Trust me, dictating an exam to someone who is typing it takes a lot longer than typing it yourself. It SUCKED. It was really hard to get through law school and the bar exam that way. It absolutely is a valid diagnosis for which accommodation is justified. There were people in my class who thought my disability was fake / unjustified / etc. The dean who was in charge of getting me notes actually told me that someone who reached out to turned him down because she suspected they were for me and she did not think my disability was real!

It was awful. and it made my law school experience SO much worse.

It's really important to err on the side of believing people about their health issues and disabilities. One of the worst things about a disability can be how people react.

I still remember the people who were nice about it and the people who sucked - in work and school.

Now I know to keep it very quiet and tell as few people as possible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a professor in the humanities, I find that my students tend to do worse psychologically with assignments hanging over their heads. Because they have a syllabus with due dates, they report being better off planning in advance and not taking advantage of extended times. This avoids having a pile of assignments due at the end of the semester from multiple classes. I also give a lot of time for in-class quizzes, so students generally don't need to go to the disability center to take their quizzes.
And, yes, processing speed is part of an overall picture of intelligence, but not all of it. If you have two children who have the same verbal and math reasoning "scores" on intelligence tests, but one is able to complete the same questions in half the time as another student is at an distinct advantage. The quicker child can simply take in far more data in a given amount of time than the other.

Intelligence tests are timed. It’s kind of the whole point.

Damn, you really know nothing about psychometrics. You can score incredibly high on an IQ test, and that is actually the basis for why you're entitled to extended time. There's a significant disparity (like multiple standard deviations) between your IQ sub scores or a significant disparity between intelligence test scoring and achievement test scoring. Numerous IQ subtests are not timed. I think the vast majority, actually. I think the only timed one is block design, but there could be others I'm not thinking of.

Yeah, no. You don’t know what you are talking about. The basis for “extended time” is the discrepancy between academic achievement and an IQ test only when adequate academic progress is not being made. . The vast majority of IQ tests have a timed component. The fact that you do not know that is, to say the least, revealing.

To add, the SAT, LSAT, and GREs are not achievement tests; they are highly correlated with IQ or, more accurately, “G,” or “general intelligence…