Why do parents from high FARMS school

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would love to hear what deranged level of course offerings should be offered at every school.

How about offering the same exact classes at all schools. You are ok with this because your kids have access. You bash other parents whose kids don’t have access why? You are the problem.

I think your child’s needs should be met, but I don’t think you are being realistic or reasonable in thinking you can buy a home in an under resourced school pyramid and expect that your outlier child, who is not a family on FARMS or an EML student, should get bespoke treatment/allocation of school resources when the majority of your school needs different classes and remediation. I think mcps should provide you transportation to mc or to a nearby high school so you can access those classes they can’t provide at yours. I don’t think your under resourced over crowded school should have to cater to a very small subset.

I think that's a mis-reading of the student population at these high FARMS schools. It's not like 90% are below grade level. There's a substantial cohort of able learners, and they should be able to have their needs met at their home school.

Honestly, this is perhaps a topic for another thread, but the simplest way to do that IMO is less about super-advanced AP or post-AP classes, but to go back to cohorted Grade 9-10 English and Social Studies classes so that teachers aren't scrambling trying to teach to such a wide range of abilities in one classroom, an approach that I don't think helps students at any level.

Yes - DCC parent here who wants MCPS to eliminate all these special programs and focus on: same course offerings in each school; cohorted by ability. There is a decent sized chunk of high performing kids in my zoned high school but special programs incentivize them to leave whereas cohorts would incentivize them to stay with their similarly academically-abled friends they’ve grown up with. Why can’t we do this? I don’t care if there’s only one AP Calculus class in my school and four of them in Whitman as long as any kids in my school who qualify to take AP Calculus can do so without having to take a 45 minute bus ride each way.

I agree with this. I think the problem starts with CES and continues all the way up.

DP and another DCC parent: I could not agree more. Enough already.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would love to hear what deranged level of course offerings should be offered at every school.

How about offering the same exact classes at all schools. You are ok with this because your kids have access. You bash other parents whose kids don’t have access why? You are the problem.

I think your child’s needs should be met, but I don’t think you are being realistic or reasonable in thinking you can buy a home in an under resourced school pyramid and expect that your outlier child, who is not a family on FARMS or an EML student, should get bespoke treatment/allocation of school resources when the majority of your school needs different classes and remediation. I think mcps should provide you transportation to mc or to a nearby high school so you can access those classes they can’t provide at yours. I don’t think your under resourced over crowded school should have to cater to a very small subset.

I think that's a mis-reading of the student population at these high FARMS schools. It's not like 90% are below grade level. There's a substantial cohort of able learners, and they should be able to have their needs met at their home school.

Honestly, this is perhaps a topic for another thread, but the simplest way to do that IMO is less about super-advanced AP or post-AP classes, but to go back to cohorted Grade 9-10 English and Social Studies classes so that teachers aren't scrambling trying to teach to such a wide range of abilities in one classroom, an approach that I don't think helps students at any level.

They are about 30-50% below grade level and 50-70% grade level. Very few above grade level.

But let’s all focus on super advanced coursework….

Sure, because your kids got advanced coursework, who cares about the kids who don't? You want to talk about farms and yet, you don't live in a neighborhood with lower income and they aren't welcome. The better solution is to cut funding from the schools that have more to make it more equal and use that funding to provide more supports in ES and MS to get these kids reading and writing better. There is no fix at the HS level. The fix has to come at the ES level.

School funding is managed by the county, and high FARMs schools already get more funding than other schools (as they should).

Wealthier parents provide outside enrichment. The school district doesn't provide that.

-dp

Many of us worked with our kids/tutors/outside enrichment but that's not why these kids are struggling. MCPS needs to be required to provide additional supports to any child not on grade level. BY HS, its too little too late. The funding for FAMRS is not enough to accomplish that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would love to hear what deranged level of course offerings should be offered at every school.

How about offering the same exact classes at all schools. You are ok with this because your kids have access. You bash other parents whose kids don’t have access why? You are the problem.

I think your child’s needs should be met, but I don’t think you are being realistic or reasonable in thinking you can buy a home in an under resourced school pyramid and expect that your outlier child, who is not a family on FARMS or an EML student, should get bespoke treatment/allocation of school resources when the majority of your school needs different classes and remediation. I think mcps should provide you transportation to mc or to a nearby high school so you can access those classes they can’t provide at yours. I don’t think your under resourced over crowded school should have to cater to a very small subset.

I think that's a mis-reading of the student population at these high FARMS schools. It's not like 90% are below grade level. There's a substantial cohort of able learners, and they should be able to have their needs met at their home school.

Honestly, this is perhaps a topic for another thread, but the simplest way to do that IMO is less about super-advanced AP or post-AP classes, but to go back to cohorted Grade 9-10 English and Social Studies classes so that teachers aren't scrambling trying to teach to such a wide range of abilities in one classroom, an approach that I don't think helps students at any level.

They are about 30-50% below grade level and 50-70% grade level. Very few above grade level.

But let’s all focus on super advanced coursework….

Sure, because your kids got advanced coursework, who cares about the kids who don't? You want to talk about farms and yet, you don't live in a neighborhood with lower income and they aren't welcome. The better solution is to cut funding from the schools that have more to make it more equal and use that funding to provide more supports in ES and MS to get these kids reading and writing better. There is no fix at the HS level. The fix has to come at the ES level.

School funding is managed by the county, and high FARMs schools already get more funding than other schools (as they should).

Wealthier parents provide outside enrichment. The school district doesn't provide that.

-dp

There are no Title 1 or focus high schools in MCPS. They don't get money based on FARMS rates. If they do get extra money it is probably for EML and students with disabilities (low income kids have higher rates of disability). These funds do not address the specific issues associated with poverty nor do they address racism in education, which is a real, documented issue that affects Black and Brown (especially Black) students of all income levels. In addition, MCPS's budget numbers do not distinguish between teachers. As you know, more experienced teachers get paid more. High income schools have more experienced teachers. Therefore, teachers in high income schools get paid more than teachers in low income schools.

Teacher in high income schools do not get paid more just because the school is in a high income area. They are paid more because they are more senior and have more experience. The teachers with the same seniority/experience get paid the same amount regardless of where the school is located in the county and regardless of socioeconomics of population.

And while there is no Title1 or Focus in High school, MCPS did change their resource allocation to schools. So the PP is correct that High Farms schools are getting more.

I didn't say they get paid more because it is a high income area. I simply said they get paid more.

Impact matters more than intent. MCPS may not have set out to give Black and Brown students and students with lower incomes less experienced teachers. But that is what they are currently doing.

Experience can be good and bad. Some teachers are so burnt out and stop caring that sometimes a younger/new teacher is better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would love to hear what deranged level of course offerings should be offered at every school.

How about offering the same exact classes at all schools. You are ok with this because your kids have access. You bash other parents whose kids don’t have access why? You are the problem.

I think your child’s needs should be met, but I don’t think you are being realistic or reasonable in thinking you can buy a home in an under resourced school pyramid and expect that your outlier child, who is not a family on FARMS or an EML student, should get bespoke treatment/allocation of school resources when the majority of your school needs different classes and remediation. I think mcps should provide you transportation to mc or to a nearby high school so you can access those classes they can’t provide at yours. I don’t think your under resourced over crowded school should have to cater to a very small subset.

I think that's a mis-reading of the student population at these high FARMS schools. It's not like 90% are below grade level. There's a substantial cohort of able learners, and they should be able to have their needs met at their home school.

Honestly, this is perhaps a topic for another thread, but the simplest way to do that IMO is less about super-advanced AP or post-AP classes, but to go back to cohorted Grade 9-10 English and Social Studies classes so that teachers aren't scrambling trying to teach to such a wide range of abilities in one classroom, an approach that I don't think helps students at any level.

Yes - DCC parent here who wants MCPS to eliminate all these special programs and focus on: same course offerings in each school; cohorted by ability. There is a decent sized chunk of high performing kids in my zoned high school but special programs incentivize them to leave whereas cohorts would incentivize them to stay with their similarly academically-abled friends they’ve grown up with. Why can’t we do this? I don’t care if there’s only one AP Calculus class in my school and four of them in Whitman as long as any kids in my school who qualify to take AP Calculus can do so without having to take a 45 minute bus ride each way.

I agree with this. I think the problem starts with CES and continues all the way up.

DP and another DCC parent: I could not agree more. Enough already.

Just getting rid of the special programs is not going to convince MCPS to cohort classes locally, though... there is a lot of internal opposition to that-- it's not just about lack of resources or adequately-sized cohorts. Instead, there needs to be advocacy specifically focused on offering advanced classes in all subjects, starting in middle school.

The problem is that having multiple levels generally makes racial and SES disparities more visible, and addressing those disparities the right way is hard. Just putting everyone in the same level classes is much easier, so MCPS prefers to do it that way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would love to hear what deranged level of course offerings should be offered at every school.

How about offering the same exact classes at all schools. You are ok with this because your kids have access. You bash other parents whose kids don’t have access why? You are the problem.

I think your child’s needs should be met, but I don’t think you are being realistic or reasonable in thinking you can buy a home in an under resourced school pyramid and expect that your outlier child, who is not a family on FARMS or an EML student, should get bespoke treatment/allocation of school resources when the majority of your school needs different classes and remediation. I think mcps should provide you transportation to mc or to a nearby high school so you can access those classes they can’t provide at yours. I don’t think your under resourced over crowded school should have to cater to a very small subset.

I think that's a mis-reading of the student population at these high FARMS schools. It's not like 90% are below grade level. There's a substantial cohort of able learners, and they should be able to have their needs met at their home school.

Honestly, this is perhaps a topic for another thread, but the simplest way to do that IMO is less about super-advanced AP or post-AP classes, but to go back to cohorted Grade 9-10 English and Social Studies classes so that teachers aren't scrambling trying to teach to such a wide range of abilities in one classroom, an approach that I don't think helps students at any level.

They are about 30-50% below grade level and 50-70% grade level. Very few above grade level.

But let’s all focus on super advanced coursework….

Sure, because your kids got advanced coursework, who cares about the kids who don't? You want to talk about farms and yet, you don't live in a neighborhood with lower income and they aren't welcome. The better solution is to cut funding from the schools that have more to make it more equal and use that funding to provide more supports in ES and MS to get these kids reading and writing better. There is no fix at the HS level. The fix has to come at the ES level.

School funding is managed by the county, and high FARMs schools already get more funding than other schools (as they should).

Wealthier parents provide outside enrichment. The school district doesn't provide that.

-dp

Many of us worked with our kids/tutors/outside enrichment but that's not why these kids are struggling. MCPS needs to be required to provide additional supports to any child not on grade level. BY HS, it’s too little too late. The funding for FAMRS is not enough to accomplish that.

No what they need is a humanities magnet and MVC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would love to hear what deranged level of course offerings should be offered at every school.

How about offering the same exact classes at all schools. You are ok with this because your kids have access. You bash other parents whose kids don’t have access why? You are the problem.

I think your child’s needs should be met, but I don’t think you are being realistic or reasonable in thinking you can buy a home in an under resourced school pyramid and expect that your outlier child, who is not a family on FARMS or an EML student, should get bespoke treatment/allocation of school resources when the majority of your school needs different classes and remediation. I think mcps should provide you transportation to mc or to a nearby high school so you can access those classes they can’t provide at yours. I don’t think your under resourced over crowded school should have to cater to a very small subset.

I think that's a mis-reading of the student population at these high FARMS schools. It's not like 90% are below grade level. There's a substantial cohort of able learners, and they should be able to have their needs met at their home school.

Honestly, this is perhaps a topic for another thread, but the simplest way to do that IMO is less about super-advanced AP or post-AP classes, but to go back to cohorted Grade 9-10 English and Social Studies classes so that teachers aren't scrambling trying to teach to such a wide range of abilities in one classroom, an approach that I don't think helps students at any level.

They are about 30-50% below grade level and 50-70% grade level. Very few above grade level.

But let’s all focus on super advanced coursework….

Sure, because your kids got advanced coursework, who cares about the kids who don't? You want to talk about farms and yet, you don't live in a neighborhood with lower income and they aren't welcome. The better solution is to cut funding from the schools that have more to make it more equal and use that funding to provide more supports in ES and MS to get these kids reading and writing better. There is no fix at the HS level. The fix has to come at the ES level.

School funding is managed by the county, and high FARMs schools already get more funding than other schools (as they should).

Wealthier parents provide outside enrichment. The school district doesn't provide that.

-dp

There are no Title 1 or focus high schools in MCPS. They don't get money based on FARMS rates. If they do get extra money it is probably for EML and students with disabilities (low income kids have higher rates of disability). These funds do not address the specific issues associated with poverty nor do they address racism in education, which is a real, documented issue that affects Black and Brown (especially Black) students of all income levels. In addition, MCPS's budget numbers do not distinguish between teachers. As you know, more experienced teachers get paid more. High income schools have more experienced teachers. Therefore, teachers in high income schools get paid more than teachers in low income schools.

Teacher in high income schools do not get paid more just because the school is in a high income area. They are paid more because they are more senior and have more experience. The teachers with the same seniority/experience get paid the same amount regardless of where the school is located in the county and regardless of socioeconomics of population.

And while there is no Title1 or Focus in High school, MCPS did change their resource allocation to schools. So the PP is correct that High Farms schools are getting more.

I didn't say they get paid more because it is a high income area. I simply said they get paid more.

Impact matters more than intent. MCPS may not have set out to give Black and Brown students and students with lower incomes less experienced teachers. But that is what they are currently doing.

Experience can be good and bad. Some teachers are so burnt out and stop caring that sometimes a younger/new teacher is better.

This is a common and disingenuous retort to this obvious inequity. However research consistently shows that on the whole, experienced teachers are more effective than inexperienced teachers..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would love to hear what deranged level of course offerings should be offered at every school.

How about offering the same exact classes at all schools. You are ok with this because your kids have access. You bash other parents whose kids don’t have access why? You are the problem.

I think your child’s needs should be met, but I don’t think you are being realistic or reasonable in thinking you can buy a home in an under resourced school pyramid and expect that your outlier child, who is not a family on FARMS or an EML student, should get bespoke treatment/allocation of school resources when the majority of your school needs different classes and remediation. I think mcps should provide you transportation to mc or to a nearby high school so you can access those classes they can’t provide at yours. I don’t think your under resourced over crowded school should have to cater to a very small subset.

I think that's a mis-reading of the student population at these high FARMS schools. It's not like 90% are below grade level. There's a substantial cohort of able learners, and they should be able to have their needs met at their home school.

Honestly, this is perhaps a topic for another thread, but the simplest way to do that IMO is less about super-advanced AP or post-AP classes, but to go back to cohorted Grade 9-10 English and Social Studies classes so that teachers aren't scrambling trying to teach to such a wide range of abilities in one classroom, an approach that I don't think helps students at any level.

Yes - DCC parent here who wants MCPS to eliminate all these special programs and focus on: same course offerings in each school; cohorted by ability. There is a decent sized chunk of high performing kids in my zoned high school but special programs incentivize them to leave whereas cohorts would incentivize them to stay with their similarly academically-abled friends they’ve grown up with. Why can’t we do this? I don’t care if there’s only one AP Calculus class in my school and four of them in Whitman as long as any kids in my school who qualify to take AP Calculus can do so without having to take a 45 minute bus ride each way.

I agree with this. I think the problem starts with CES and continues all the way up.

DP and another DCC parent: I could not agree more. Enough already.

Just getting rid of the special programs is not going to convince MCPS to cohort classes locally, though... there is a lot of internal opposition to that-- it's not just about lack of resources or adequately-sized cohorts. Instead, there needs to be advocacy specifically focused on offering advanced classes in all subjects, starting in middle school.

The problem is that having multiple levels generally makes racial and SES disparities more visible, and addressing those disparities the right way is hard. Just putting everyone in the same level classes is much easier, so MCPS prefers to do it that way.

When you say internal opposition to cohorting, is that from teachers, parents, or MCPS CO staff?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would love to hear what deranged level of course offerings should be offered at every school.

How about offering the same exact classes at all schools. You are ok with this because your kids have access. You bash other parents whose kids don’t have access why? You are the problem.

I think your child’s needs should be met, but I don’t think you are being realistic or reasonable in thinking you can buy a home in an under resourced school pyramid and expect that your outlier child, who is not a family on FARMS or an EML student, should get bespoke treatment/allocation of school resources when the majority of your school needs different classes and remediation. I think mcps should provide you transportation to mc or to a nearby high school so you can access those classes they can’t provide at yours. I don’t think your under resourced over crowded school should have to cater to a very small subset.

I think that's a mis-reading of the student population at these high FARMS schools. It's not like 90% are below grade level. There's a substantial cohort of able learners, and they should be able to have their needs met at their home school.

Honestly, this is perhaps a topic for another thread, but the simplest way to do that IMO is less about super-advanced AP or post-AP classes, but to go back to cohorted Grade 9-10 English and Social Studies classes so that teachers aren't scrambling trying to teach to such a wide range of abilities in one classroom, an approach that I don't think helps students at any level.

They are about 30-50% below grade level and 50-70% grade level. Very few above grade level.

But let’s all focus on super advanced coursework….

Sure, because your kids got advanced coursework, who cares about the kids who don't? You want to talk about farms and yet, you don't live in a neighborhood with lower income and they aren't welcome. The better solution is to cut funding from the schools that have more to make it more equal and use that funding to provide more supports in ES and MS to get these kids reading and writing better. There is no fix at the HS level. The fix has to come at the ES level.

School funding is managed by the county, and high FARMs schools already get more funding than other schools (as they should).

Wealthier parents provide outside enrichment. The school district doesn't provide that.

-dp

Many of us worked with our kids/tutors/outside enrichment but that's not why these kids are struggling. MCPS needs to be required to provide additional supports to any child not on grade level. BY HS, its too little too late. The funding for FAMRS is not enough to accomplish that.

Has anyone reckoned with how much this actually would cost? There have been plenty of studies showing preschool and certain early childhood benefits fade over time. So tell me, what is the cost to keep all of these kids on grade level from kindergarten (or even before) through high school without watering down the curriculum or creme skimming to “juice” the stats, because that’s what needs to be evaluated. And then we need to decide whether we have the budget to do it. I, for one, am pessimistic about the true costs much less the political wherewithal to see it through.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would love to hear what deranged level of course offerings should be offered at every school.

How about offering the same exact classes at all schools. You are ok with this because your kids have access. You bash other parents whose kids don’t have access why? You are the problem.

I think your child’s needs should be met, but I don’t think you are being realistic or reasonable in thinking you can buy a home in an under resourced school pyramid and expect that your outlier child, who is not a family on FARMS or an EML student, should get bespoke treatment/allocation of school resources when the majority of your school needs different classes and remediation. I think mcps should provide you transportation to mc or to a nearby high school so you can access those classes they can’t provide at yours. I don’t think your under resourced over crowded school should have to cater to a very small subset.

I think that's a mis-reading of the student population at these high FARMS schools. It's not like 90% are below grade level. There's a substantial cohort of able learners, and they should be able to have their needs met at their home school.

Honestly, this is perhaps a topic for another thread, but the simplest way to do that IMO is less about super-advanced AP or post-AP classes, but to go back to cohorted Grade 9-10 English and Social Studies classes so that teachers aren't scrambling trying to teach to such a wide range of abilities in one classroom, an approach that I don't think helps students at any level.

They are about 30-50% below grade level and 50-70% grade level. Very few above grade level.

But let’s all focus on super advanced coursework….

Sure, because your kids got advanced coursework, who cares about the kids who don't? You want to talk about farms and yet, you don't live in a neighborhood with lower income and they aren't welcome. The better solution is to cut funding from the schools that have more to make it more equal and use that funding to provide more supports in ES and MS to get these kids reading and writing better. There is no fix at the HS level. The fix has to come at the ES level.

School funding is managed by the county, and high FARMs schools already get more funding than other schools (as they should).

Wealthier parents provide outside enrichment. The school district doesn't provide that.

-dp

There are no Title 1 or focus high schools in MCPS. They don't get money based on FARMS rates. If they do get extra money it is probably for EML and students with disabilities (low income kids have higher rates of disability). These funds do not address the specific issues associated with poverty nor do they address racism in education, which is a real, documented issue that affects Black and Brown (especially Black) students of all income levels. In addition, MCPS's budget numbers do not distinguish between teachers. As you know, more experienced teachers get paid more. High income schools have more experienced teachers. Therefore, teachers in high income schools get paid more than teachers in low income schools.

Teacher in high income schools do not get paid more just because the school is in a high income area. They are paid more because they are more senior and have more experience. The teachers with the same seniority/experience get paid the same amount regardless of where the school is located in the county and regardless of socioeconomics of population.

And while there is no Title1 or Focus in High school, MCPS did change their resource allocation to schools. So the PP is correct that High Farms schools are getting more.

Huh? What does this even mean? Which schools are getting extra funding due to their FARMS rates (that is, funding that is not for EML or special education)?

DP. I think this refers to a part of Taylor's new operating budget. I'll look for a link.

It's this chart:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gDlOYGuJHgMS8Orz2GQnQ6tMygY49xPY/view

linked to Exhibit 33 here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-q0uQO2SNtPctS3GptsRbeansTeG0ffQwAp-oDnBWVA/edit?usp=sharing

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would love to hear what deranged level of course offerings should be offered at every school.

How about offering the same exact classes at all schools. You are ok with this because your kids have access. You bash other parents whose kids don’t have access why? You are the problem.

I think your child’s needs should be met, but I don’t think you are being realistic or reasonable in thinking you can buy a home in an under resourced school pyramid and expect that your outlier child, who is not a family on FARMS or an EML student, should get bespoke treatment/allocation of school resources when the majority of your school needs different classes and remediation. I think mcps should provide you transportation to mc or to a nearby high school so you can access those classes they can’t provide at yours. I don’t think your under resourced over crowded school should have to cater to a very small subset.

I think that's a mis-reading of the student population at these high FARMS schools. It's not like 90% are below grade level. There's a substantial cohort of able learners, and they should be able to have their needs met at their home school.

Honestly, this is perhaps a topic for another thread, but the simplest way to do that IMO is less about super-advanced AP or post-AP classes, but to go back to cohorted Grade 9-10 English and Social Studies classes so that teachers aren't scrambling trying to teach to such a wide range of abilities in one classroom, an approach that I don't think helps students at any level.

Yes - DCC parent here who wants MCPS to eliminate all these special programs and focus on: same course offerings in each school; cohorted by ability. There is a decent sized chunk of high performing kids in my zoned high school but special programs incentivize them to leave whereas cohorts would incentivize them to stay with their similarly academically-abled friends they’ve grown up with. Why can’t we do this? I don’t care if there’s only one AP Calculus class in my school and four of them in Whitman as long as any kids in my school who qualify to take AP Calculus can do so without having to take a 45 minute bus ride each way.

I agree with this. I think the problem starts with CES and continues all the way up.

DP and another DCC parent: I could not agree more. Enough already.

Just getting rid of the special programs is not going to convince MCPS to cohort classes locally, though... there is a lot of internal opposition to that-- it's not just about lack of resources or adequately-sized cohorts. Instead, there needs to be advocacy specifically focused on offering advanced classes in all subjects, starting in middle school.

The problem is that having multiple levels generally makes racial and SES disparities more visible, and addressing those disparities the right way is hard. Just putting everyone in the same level classes is much easier, so MCPS prefers to do it that way.

I can see the discomfort from cohorting if it's done in a top-down way where all the highest-performers in 8th grade are assigned to Advanced English 9, and the medium or below performers are assigned to regular English 9. But why not offer a class at every high school, available to all students who have ELA proficiency, where students will be assigned more books, and more challenging texts, and expected to write more, than in the standard class?

I think most 14 year-olds are able to self-select in the class that's best for them, in the same way later in high school students choose which or how many AP classes they take.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would love to hear what deranged level of course offerings should be offered at every school.

How about offering the same exact classes at all schools. You are ok with this because your kids have access. You bash other parents whose kids don’t have access why? You are the problem.

I think your child’s needs should be met, but I don’t think you are being realistic or reasonable in thinking you can buy a home in an under resourced school pyramid and expect that your outlier child, who is not a family on FARMS or an EML student, should get bespoke treatment/allocation of school resources when the majority of your school needs different classes and remediation. I think mcps should provide you transportation to mc or to a nearby high school so you can access those classes they can’t provide at yours. I don’t think your under resourced over crowded school should have to cater to a very small subset.

I think that's a mis-reading of the student population at these high FARMS schools. It's not like 90% are below grade level. There's a substantial cohort of able learners, and they should be able to have their needs met at their home school.

Honestly, this is perhaps a topic for another thread, but the simplest way to do that IMO is less about super-advanced AP or post-AP classes, but to go back to cohorted Grade 9-10 English and Social Studies classes so that teachers aren't scrambling trying to teach to such a wide range of abilities in one classroom, an approach that I don't think helps students at any level.

Yes - DCC parent here who wants MCPS to eliminate all these special programs and focus on: same course offerings in each school; cohorted by ability. There is a decent sized chunk of high performing kids in my zoned high school but special programs incentivize them to leave whereas cohorts would incentivize them to stay with their similarly academically-abled friends they’ve grown up with. Why can’t we do this? I don’t care if there’s only one AP Calculus class in my school and four of them in Whitman as long as any kids in my school who qualify to take AP Calculus can do so without having to take a 45 minute bus ride each way.

I agree with this. I think the problem starts with CES and continues all the way up.

DP and another DCC parent: I could not agree more. Enough already.

Just getting rid of the special programs is not going to convince MCPS to cohort classes locally, though... there is a lot of internal opposition to that-- it's not just about lack of resources or adequately-sized cohorts. Instead, there needs to be advocacy specifically focused on offering advanced classes in all subjects, starting in middle school.

The problem is that having multiple levels generally makes racial and SES disparities more visible, and addressing those disparities the right way is hard. Just putting everyone in the same level classes is much easier, so MCPS prefers to do it that way.

I can see the discomfort from cohorting if it's done in a top-down way where all the highest-performers in 8th grade are assigned to Advanced English 9, and the medium or below performers are assigned to regular English 9. But why not offer a class at every high school, available to all students who have ELA proficiency, where students will be assigned more books, and more challenging texts, and expected to write more, than in the standard class?

I think most 14 year-olds are able to self-select in the class that's best for them, in the same way later in high school students choose which or how many AP classes they take.

PP responding to my own comment... I think there'd be a lot less angst about whether Whitman or Northwood gets the "humanities magnet" if these basic options were available at all high schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would love to hear what deranged level of course offerings should be offered at every school.

How about offering the same exact classes at all schools. You are ok with this because your kids have access. You bash other parents whose kids don’t have access why? You are the problem.

I think your child’s needs should be met, but I don’t think you are being realistic or reasonable in thinking you can buy a home in an under resourced school pyramid and expect that your outlier child, who is not a family on FARMS or an EML student, should get bespoke treatment/allocation of school resources when the majority of your school needs different classes and remediation. I think mcps should provide you transportation to mc or to a nearby high school so you can access those classes they can’t provide at yours. I don’t think your under resourced over crowded school should have to cater to a very small subset.

I think that's a mis-reading of the student population at these high FARMS schools. It's not like 90% are below grade level. There's a substantial cohort of able learners, and they should be able to have their needs met at their home school.

Honestly, this is perhaps a topic for another thread, but the simplest way to do that IMO is less about super-advanced AP or post-AP classes, but to go back to cohorted Grade 9-10 English and Social Studies classes so that teachers aren't scrambling trying to teach to such a wide range of abilities in one classroom, an approach that I don't think helps students at any level.

They are about 30-50% below grade level and 50-70% grade level. Very few above grade level.

But let’s all focus on super advanced coursework….

Sure, because your kids got advanced coursework, who cares about the kids who don't? You want to talk about farms and yet, you don't live in a neighborhood with lower income and they aren't welcome. The better solution is to cut funding from the schools that have more to make it more equal and use that funding to provide more supports in ES and MS to get these kids reading and writing better. There is no fix at the HS level. The fix has to come at the ES level.

School funding is managed by the county, and high FARMs schools already get more funding than other schools (as they should).

Wealthier parents provide outside enrichment. The school district doesn't provide that.

-dp

There are no Title 1 or focus high schools in MCPS. They don't get money based on FARMS rates. If they do get extra money it is probably for EML and students with disabilities (low income kids have higher rates of disability). These funds do not address the specific issues associated with poverty nor do they address racism in education, which is a real, documented issue that affects Black and Brown (especially Black) students of all income levels. In addition, MCPS's budget numbers do not distinguish between teachers. As you know, more experienced teachers get paid more. High income schools have more experienced teachers. Therefore, teachers in high income schools get paid more than teachers in low income schools.

Teacher in high income schools do not get paid more just because the school is in a high income area. They are paid more because they are more senior and have more experience. The teachers with the same seniority/experience get paid the same amount regardless of where the school is located in the county and regardless of socioeconomics of population.

And while there is no Title1 or Focus in High school, MCPS did change their resource allocation to schools. So the PP is correct that High Farms schools are getting more.

Huh? What does this even mean? Which schools are getting extra funding due to their FARMS rates (that is, funding that is not for EML or special education)?

DP. I think this refers to a part of Taylor's new operating budget. I'll look for a link.

It's this chart:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gDlOYGuJHgMS8Orz2GQnQ6tMygY49xPY/view

linked to Exhibit 33 here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-q0uQO2SNtPctS3GptsRbeansTeG0ffQwAp-oDnBWVA/edit?usp=sharing

Does this mean that for this current school year, Einstein which is listed as having 847 FARMS students, gets an equity allocation of $267,273 (which is about 2 teachers salaries and benefits) and Churchill, which is listed as having 241 FARMS students, gets $276,194? In what way is this promoting equity? BCC is even worse! Kennedy gets less than all of these. WTAF.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would love to hear what deranged level of course offerings should be offered at every school.

How about offering the same exact classes at all schools. You are ok with this because your kids have access. You bash other parents whose kids don’t have access why? You are the problem.

I think your child’s needs should be met, but I don’t think you are being realistic or reasonable in thinking you can buy a home in an under resourced school pyramid and expect that your outlier child, who is not a family on FARMS or an EML student, should get bespoke treatment/allocation of school resources when the majority of your school needs different classes and remediation. I think mcps should provide you transportation to mc or to a nearby high school so you can access those classes they can’t provide at yours. I don’t think your under resourced over crowded school should have to cater to a very small subset.

I think that's a mis-reading of the student population at these high FARMS schools. It's not like 90% are below grade level. There's a substantial cohort of able learners, and they should be able to have their needs met at their home school.

Honestly, this is perhaps a topic for another thread, but the simplest way to do that IMO is less about super-advanced AP or post-AP classes, but to go back to cohorted Grade 9-10 English and Social Studies classes so that teachers aren't scrambling trying to teach to such a wide range of abilities in one classroom, an approach that I don't think helps students at any level.

They are about 30-50% below grade level and 50-70% grade level. Very few above grade level.

But let’s all focus on super advanced coursework….

Sure, because your kids got advanced coursework, who cares about the kids who don't? You want to talk about farms and yet, you don't live in a neighborhood with lower income and they aren't welcome. The better solution is to cut funding from the schools that have more to make it more equal and use that funding to provide more supports in ES and MS to get these kids reading and writing better. There is no fix at the HS level. The fix has to come at the ES level.

School funding is managed by the county, and high FARMs schools already get more funding than other schools (as they should).

Wealthier parents provide outside enrichment. The school district doesn't provide that.

-dp

There are no Title 1 or focus high schools in MCPS. They don't get money based on FARMS rates. If they do get extra money it is probably for EML and students with disabilities (low income kids have higher rates of disability). These funds do not address the specific issues associated with poverty nor do they address racism in education, which is a real, documented issue that affects Black and Brown (especially Black) students of all income levels. In addition, MCPS's budget numbers do not distinguish between teachers. As you know, more experienced teachers get paid more. High income schools have more experienced teachers. Therefore, teachers in high income schools get paid more than teachers in low income schools.

Teacher in high income schools do not get paid more just because the school is in a high income area. They are paid more because they are more senior and have more experience. The teachers with the same seniority/experience get paid the same amount regardless of where the school is located in the county and regardless of socioeconomics of population.

And while there is no Title1 or Focus in High school, MCPS did change their resource allocation to schools. So the PP is correct that High Farms schools are getting more.

Huh? What does this even mean? Which schools are getting extra funding due to their FARMS rates (that is, funding that is not for EML or special education)?

DP. I think this refers to a part of Taylor's new operating budget. I'll look for a link.

It's this chart:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gDlOYGuJHgMS8Orz2GQnQ6tMygY49xPY/view

linked to Exhibit 33 here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-q0uQO2SNtPctS3GptsRbeansTeG0ffQwAp-oDnBWVA/edit?usp=sharing

Does this mean that for this current school year, Einstein which is listed as having 847 FARMS students, gets an equity allocation of $267,273 (which is about 2 teachers salaries and benefits) and Churchill, which is listed as having 241 FARMS students, gets $276,194? In what way is this promoting equity? BCC is even worse! Kennedy gets less than all of these. WTAF.

But look at Blair which gets nearly double!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would love to hear what deranged level of course offerings should be offered at every school.

How about offering the same exact classes at all schools. You are ok with this because your kids have access. You bash other parents whose kids don’t have access why? You are the problem.

I think your child’s needs should be met, but I don’t think you are being realistic or reasonable in thinking you can buy a home in an under resourced school pyramid and expect that your outlier child, who is not a family on FARMS or an EML student, should get bespoke treatment/allocation of school resources when the majority of your school needs different classes and remediation. I think mcps should provide you transportation to mc or to a nearby high school so you can access those classes they can’t provide at yours. I don’t think your under resourced over crowded school should have to cater to a very small subset.

I think that's a mis-reading of the student population at these high FARMS schools. It's not like 90% are below grade level. There's a substantial cohort of able learners, and they should be able to have their needs met at their home school.

Honestly, this is perhaps a topic for another thread, but the simplest way to do that IMO is less about super-advanced AP or post-AP classes, but to go back to cohorted Grade 9-10 English and Social Studies classes so that teachers aren't scrambling trying to teach to such a wide range of abilities in one classroom, an approach that I don't think helps students at any level.

They are about 30-50% below grade level and 50-70% grade level. Very few above grade level.

But let’s all focus on super advanced coursework….

Sure, because your kids got advanced coursework, who cares about the kids who don't? You want to talk about farms and yet, you don't live in a neighborhood with lower income and they aren't welcome. The better solution is to cut funding from the schools that have more to make it more equal and use that funding to provide more supports in ES and MS to get these kids reading and writing better. There is no fix at the HS level. The fix has to come at the ES level.

School funding is managed by the county, and high FARMs schools already get more funding than other schools (as they should).

Wealthier parents provide outside enrichment. The school district doesn't provide that.

-dp

There are no Title 1 or focus high schools in MCPS. They don't get money based on FARMS rates. If they do get extra money it is probably for EML and students with disabilities (low income kids have higher rates of disability). These funds do not address the specific issues associated with poverty nor do they address racism in education, which is a real, documented issue that affects Black and Brown (especially Black) students of all income levels. In addition, MCPS's budget numbers do not distinguish between teachers. As you know, more experienced teachers get paid more. High income schools have more experienced teachers. Therefore, teachers in high income schools get paid more than teachers in low income schools.

Teacher in high income schools do not get paid more just because the school is in a high income area. They are paid more because they are more senior and have more experience. The teachers with the same seniority/experience get paid the same amount regardless of where the school is located in the county and regardless of socioeconomics of population.

And while there is no Title1 or Focus in High school, MCPS did change their resource allocation to schools. So the PP is correct that High Farms schools are getting more.

Huh? What does this even mean? Which schools are getting extra funding due to their FARMS rates (that is, funding that is not for EML or special education)?

DP. I think this refers to a part of Taylor's new operating budget. I'll look for a link.

It's this chart:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gDlOYGuJHgMS8Orz2GQnQ6tMygY49xPY/view

linked to Exhibit 33 here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-q0uQO2SNtPctS3GptsRbeansTeG0ffQwAp-oDnBWVA/edit?usp=sharing

Does this mean that for this current school year, Einstein which is listed as having 847 FARMS students, gets an equity allocation of $267,273 (which is about 2 teachers salaries and benefits) and Churchill, which is listed as having 241 FARMS students, gets $276,194? In what way is this promoting equity? BCC is even worse! Kennedy gets less than all of these. WTAF.

This isn't for salaries and benefits, it's instructional materials and "other program costs."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would love to hear what deranged level of course offerings should be offered at every school.

How about offering the same exact classes at all schools. You are ok with this because your kids have access. You bash other parents whose kids don’t have access why? You are the problem.

I think your child’s needs should be met, but I don’t think you are being realistic or reasonable in thinking you can buy a home in an under resourced school pyramid and expect that your outlier child, who is not a family on FARMS or an EML student, should get bespoke treatment/allocation of school resources when the majority of your school needs different classes and remediation. I think mcps should provide you transportation to mc or to a nearby high school so you can access those classes they can’t provide at yours. I don’t think your under resourced over crowded school should have to cater to a very small subset.

I think that's a mis-reading of the student population at these high FARMS schools. It's not like 90% are below grade level. There's a substantial cohort of able learners, and they should be able to have their needs met at their home school.

Honestly, this is perhaps a topic for another thread, but the simplest way to do that IMO is less about super-advanced AP or post-AP classes, but to go back to cohorted Grade 9-10 English and Social Studies classes so that teachers aren't scrambling trying to teach to such a wide range of abilities in one classroom, an approach that I don't think helps students at any level.

They are about 30-50% below grade level and 50-70% grade level. Very few above grade level.

But let’s all focus on super advanced coursework….

Sure, because your kids got advanced coursework, who cares about the kids who don't? You want to talk about farms and yet, you don't live in a neighborhood with lower income and they aren't welcome. The better solution is to cut funding from the schools that have more to make it more equal and use that funding to provide more supports in ES and MS to get these kids reading and writing better. There is no fix at the HS level. The fix has to come at the ES level.

School funding is managed by the county, and high FARMs schools already get more funding than other schools (as they should).

Wealthier parents provide outside enrichment. The school district doesn't provide that.

-dp

There are no Title 1 or focus high schools in MCPS. They don't get money based on FARMS rates. If they do get extra money it is probably for EML and students with disabilities (low income kids have higher rates of disability). These funds do not address the specific issues associated with poverty nor do they address racism in education, which is a real, documented issue that affects Black and Brown (especially Black) students of all income levels. In addition, MCPS's budget numbers do not distinguish between teachers. As you know, more experienced teachers get paid more. High income schools have more experienced teachers. Therefore, teachers in high income schools get paid more than teachers in low income schools.

Teacher in high income schools do not get paid more just because the school is in a high income area. They are paid more because they are more senior and have more experience. The teachers with the same seniority/experience get paid the same amount regardless of where the school is located in the county and regardless of socioeconomics of population.

And while there is no Title1 or Focus in High school, MCPS did change their resource allocation to schools. So the PP is correct that High Farms schools are getting more.

Huh? What does this even mean? Which schools are getting extra funding due to their FARMS rates (that is, funding that is not for EML or special education)?

DP. I think this refers to a part of Taylor's new operating budget. I'll look for a link.

It's this chart:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gDlOYGuJHgMS8Orz2GQnQ6tMygY49xPY/view

linked to Exhibit 33 here:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1-q0uQO2SNtPctS3GptsRbeansTeG0ffQwAp-oDnBWVA/edit?usp=sharing

Does this mean that for this current school year, Einstein which is listed as having 847 FARMS students, gets an equity allocation of $267,273 (which is about 2 teachers salaries and benefits) and Churchill, which is listed as having 241 FARMS students, gets $276,194? In what way is this promoting equity? BCC is even worse! Kennedy gets less than all of these. WTAF.

But look at Blair which gets nearly double!

In other words this "equity" funding has nothing to do with FARMS rates.

Just to repeat, there are no Title 1 or focus high schools in MCPS. They don't get money based on FARMS rates. They probably do get extra funds based on special education and EML students, but these do not address the specific issues associated with poverty or racism.