Can someone explain the "behind in math" thing?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do private school kids catch up in the math sciences when they attend college? Or, do most private schools students mostly move to non STEM subjects?

great question.

At our K-12 private in DC the "math families" had their kids doing Kumon on the side since 2nd grade and were pushed to join math club early on.

What is math club?

Learn harder mah one or two times a week and compete in math bees

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The standard in private school is Algebra 1 in 8th. A few are accelerated to A1 in 7th, but almost none in 6th. Some public school systems are willing to accelerate much more routinely. I'm not sure what the point is -- anyone who needs post-calculus would benefit from taking a more in depth class in college.

The obsession with doing post calculus work in HS is silly—I’d argue that’s true even if your kid will likely be a math major (and you’d have to start thinking about that at a very young age which I also think is silly). You will get more in depth post calculus classes in college.

You don't get it. It's for college admissions. The arms race for college admissions has never been more cutthroat.

+1

Parents push their kids to take the most accelerated math path and as many APs as possible so their kids get the "most rigorous" mark on their college applications.

College admissions being more competitive than ever is a complete myth. Population of college bound seniors is low right now. Many colleges struggling majorly financially.

I would agree that is the case for private school students at elite universities - but the reason it is more “competitive” for those students is the schools are more fair towards public school students than they used to be.

Competition at the upper tier of colleges remains very high. Population drop is not changing this at all.

The colleges that are in trouble or are closing tend to be both lower-tier and smaller.

I agree that it remains competitive - but I don't buy into that it is more competitive than ever. These schools have simply stopped letting in 50% of private school students, which makes people around here think it is more competitive.

Not like they increased seats with the population and alumni growth over the last 50 years….

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The standard in private school is Algebra 1 in 8th. A few are accelerated to A1 in 7th, but almost none in 6th. Some public school systems are willing to accelerate much more routinely. I'm not sure what the point is -- anyone who needs post-calculus would benefit from taking a more in depth class in college.

The obsession with doing post calculus work in HS is silly—I’d argue that’s true even if your kid will likely be a math major (and you’d have to start thinking about that at a very young age which I also think is silly). You will get more in depth post calculus classes in college.

You don't get it. It's for college admissions. The arms race for college admissions has never been more cutthroat.

+1

Parents push their kids to take the most accelerated math path and as many APs as possible so their kids get the "most rigorous" mark on their college applications.

College admissions being more competitive than ever is a complete myth. Population of college bound seniors is low right now. Many colleges struggling majorly financially.

I would agree that is the case for private school students at elite universities - but the reason it is more “competitive” for those students is the schools are more fair towards public school students than they used to be.

Competition at the upper tier of colleges remains very high. Population drop is not changing this at all.

The colleges that are in trouble or are closing tend to be both lower-tier and smaller.

I agree that it remains competitive - but I don't buy into that it is more competitive than ever. These schools have simply stopped letting in 50% of private school students, which makes people around here think it is more competitive.

The perceived bar of entry for elite colleges gets higher every year, resulting in (parental) push to accelerate as much as possible which pushes the bar even higher. Rinse, repeat.

[Anonymous]

DS got into a Big 3 for high school from TPMS. He would have had to go down two levels in math if he attended (they wouldn’t let him skip to his level). We decided it wasn’t worth it. He’s in college now and having had higher level math in high school has made a huge difference for him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do private school kids catch up in the math sciences when they attend college? Or, do most private schools students mostly move to non STEM subjects?

great question.

At our K-12 private in DC the "math families" had their kids doing Kumon on the side since 2nd grade and were pushed to join math club early on.

What is math club?

The first rule of math club is you do not talk about math club.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DS got into a Big 3 for high school from TPMS. He would have had to go down two levels in math if he attended (they wouldn’t let him skip to his level). We decided it wasn’t worth it. He’s in college now and having had higher level math in high school has made a huge difference for him.

How?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The standard in private school is Algebra 1 in 8th. A few are accelerated to A1 in 7th, but almost none in 6th. Some public school systems are willing to accelerate much more routinely. I'm not sure what the point is -- anyone who needs post-calculus would benefit from taking a more in depth class in college.

The obsession with doing post calculus work in HS is silly—I’d argue that’s true even if your kid will likely be a math major (and you’d have to start thinking about that at a very young age which I also think is silly). You will get more in depth post calculus classes in college.

You don't get it. It's for college admissions. The arms race for college admissions has never been more cutthroat.

+1

Parents push their kids to take the most accelerated math path and as many APs as possible so their kids get the "most rigorous" mark on their college applications.

College admissions being more competitive than ever is a complete myth. Population of college bound seniors is low right now. Many colleges struggling majorly financially.

I would agree that is the case for private school students at elite universities - but the reason it is more “competitive” for those students is the schools are more fair towards public school students than they used to be.

Competition at the upper tier of colleges remains very high. Population drop is not changing this at all.

The colleges that are in trouble or are closing tend to be both lower-tier and smaller.

I agree that it remains competitive - but I don't buy into that it is more competitive than ever. These schools have simply stopped letting in 50% of private school students, which makes people around here think it is more competitive.

Not like they increased seats with the population and alumni growth over the last 50 years….

Cornell and Yale (as two examples) have drastically increased their seats over the past decade. Sure, Harvard has not - but you can't just say they haven't as a blanket rule.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The standard in private school is Algebra 1 in 8th. A few are accelerated to A1 in 7th, but almost none in 6th. Some public school systems are willing to accelerate much more routinely. I'm not sure what the point is -- anyone who needs post-calculus would benefit from taking a more in depth class in college.

The obsession with doing post calculus work in HS is silly—I’d argue that’s true even if your kid will likely be a math major (and you’d have to start thinking about that at a very young age which I also think is silly). You will get more in depth post calculus classes in college.

You don't get it. It's for college admissions. The arms race for college admissions has never been more cutthroat.

+1

Parents push their kids to take the most accelerated math path and as many APs as possible so their kids get the "most rigorous" mark on their college applications.

College admissions being more competitive than ever is a complete myth. Population of college bound seniors is low right now. Many colleges struggling majorly financially.

I would agree that is the case for private school students at elite universities - but the reason it is more “competitive” for those students is the schools are more fair towards public school students than they used to be.

Competition at the upper tier of colleges remains very high. Population drop is not changing this at all.

The colleges that are in trouble or are closing tend to be both lower-tier and smaller.

I agree that it remains competitive - but I don't buy into that it is more competitive than ever. These schools have simply stopped letting in 50% of private school students, which makes people around here think it is more competitive.

Not like they increased seats with the population and alumni growth over the last 50 years….

Cornell and Yale (as two examples) have drastically increased their seats over the past decade. Sure, Harvard has not - but you can't just say they haven't as a blanket rule.

Not like they increased seats with the population and alumni growth over the last 50 years….

[Anonymous]

nothing drastic there. I work for a similar endowment and hear all the board chatter.

the mission of teaching needs to be resurrected, not flashy dorms, PACs, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've seen numerous posts here that the kids coming out of privates in middle school are behind in math compared to their public school counterparts. But what does that mean? What level should graduating 8th graders be? Algebra 1? Geometry? Algebra 2?

I feel the issue is not that private schools are behind. Do they practice enough fundamental skills?

Obviously it depends on the private, but I think for the most part private schools focus on mastering fundamental skills vs. arms racing to complete calculus by high school.

I agree with this, but it also depends on the specific private. Obviously there are more math/science focused privates. And Catholic schools - very generally speaking - have a reputation in being weaker in math and stronger at English. Our private has a lot of repetition (Saxon Math in elementary) and focuses on mastery of fundamental math, not on speeding through to get to Algebra by 7th. A lot of public school kids around me are doing 2x/week tutoring in 2nd-5th to try to get into advanced math whenever it is offered at the public.

Saxon Math is one of the best curricula. Students who do that whole sequence end up with great conceptual understanding and great computational ability.

Which privates are using it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DS got into a Big 3 for high school from TPMS. He would have had to go down two levels in math if he attended (they wouldn’t let him skip to his level). We decided it wasn’t worth it. He’s in college now and having had higher level math in high school has made a huge difference for him.

+1 If you're serious about math, better to stay in public school. Most private schools don't have the numbers of students to offer more rigorous math pathways that public high schools do, like AP multivariable calculus. And of course, the public magnets offer the best education and the best cohort of academically rigorous classmates (for free).

[Anonymous]

So does like half the grade take calculus junior year at your schools?

I did that back in the late 1990s so I doubt it got pushed out more. There was at least 2 classrooms of us back then for juniors. I was an econ major.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The standard in private school is Algebra 1 in 8th. A few are accelerated to A1 in 7th, but almost none in 6th. Some public school systems are willing to accelerate much more routinely. I'm not sure what the point is -- anyone who needs post-calculus would benefit from taking a more in depth class in college.

The obsession with doing post calculus work in HS is silly—I’d argue that’s true even if your kid will likely be a math major (and you’d have to start thinking about that at a very young age which I also think is silly). You will get more in depth post calculus classes in college.

You don't get it. It's for college admissions. The arms race for college admissions has never been more cutthroat.

+1

Parents push their kids to take the most accelerated math path and as many APs as possible so their kids get the "most rigorous" mark on their college applications.

College admissions being more competitive than ever is a complete myth. Population of college bound seniors is low right now. Many colleges struggling majorly financially.

I would agree that is the case for private school students at elite universities - but the reason it is more “competitive” for those students is the schools are more fair towards public school students than they used to be.

Competition at the upper tier of colleges remains very high. Population drop is not changing this at all.

The colleges that are in trouble or are closing tend to be both lower-tier and smaller.

I agree that it remains competitive - but I don't buy into that it is more competitive than ever. These schools have simply stopped letting in 50% of private school students, which makes people around here think it is more competitive.

Not like they increased seats with the population and alumni growth over the last 50 years….

Cornell and Yale (as two examples) have drastically increased their seats over the past decade. Sure, Harvard has not - but you can't just say they haven't as a blanket rule.

Not like they increased seats with the population and alumni growth over the last 50 years….

My apologies - I assumed the previous post was being sarcastic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So does like half the grade take calculus junior year at your schools?

I did that back in the late 1990s so I doubt it got pushed out more. There was at least 2 classrooms of us back then for juniors. I was an econ major.

Half your grade was taking calc in 11th? What state?

[Anonymous]

Private school students take a placement test in 6th grade, typically study pre-Algebra in 7th, and Algebra 1 in 8th. Private schools often lag behind public schools because of inadequate planning and lack of motivation among school teacher, staff and etc.