Can someone explain the "behind in math" thing?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Private school students take a placement test in 6th grade, typically study pre-Algebra in 7th, and Algebra 1 in 8th. Private schools often lag behind public schools because of inadequate planning and lack of motivation among school teacher, staff and etc.

Yeah, okay...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So does like half the grade take calculus junior year at your schools?

I did that back in the late 1990s so I doubt it got pushed out more. There was at least 2 classrooms of us back then for juniors. I was an econ major.

Half your grade was taking calc in 11th? What state?

Top high schools? 30-40% easy

Churchill Hs
Whitman HS
SWW

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So does like half the grade take calculus junior year at your schools?

I did that back in the late 1990s so I doubt it got pushed out more. There was at least 2 classrooms of us back then for juniors. I was an econ major.

Half your grade was taking calc in 11th? What state?

Top high schools? 30-40% easy

Churchill Hs
Whitman HS
SWW

So not half. Got it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So does like half the grade take calculus junior year at your schools?

I did that back in the late 1990s so I doubt it got pushed out more. There was at least 2 classrooms of us back then for juniors. I was an econ major.

Half your grade was taking calc in 11th? What state?

Top high schools? 30-40% easy

Churchill Hs
Whitman HS
SWW

So not half. Got it.

No one but you said that.
Someone else asked a question, “does something like half the class blah blah.”

Guess that makes you win the petty little man award today. Got anything else to further prove that point?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I've seen numerous posts here that the kids coming out of privates in middle school are behind in math compared to their public school counterparts. But what does that mean? What level should graduating 8th graders be? Algebra 1? Geometry? Algebra 2?

Tons of students take geometry over the summer before 9th grade, for many reasons- to get to calculus before senior year, to be able to do AP stats or more AP Econ, to not have a 15 month gap between Algebra 1 and 2, to take physics earlier.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do private school kids catch up in the math sciences when they attend college? Or, do most private schools students mostly move to non STEM subjects?

great question.

At our K-12 private in DC the "math families" had their kids doing Kumon on the side since 2nd grade and were pushed to join math club early on.

As a member of a "math family" that attended privates that did algebra in 8th grade. We didn't do any tutoring (although I did ask to go to match camp which is super fun, I did an architecture course) or be pushed to join a match club (I did do one of the competition clubs cause it was also fun and I stopped for sports). My whole family went to great colleges and no one felt behind in math although there were some whizzes who raced through the math levels ahead of us, but those friends weren't necessarily knocking it out of the park in college match either...

Did you do any after school math? Why would you consider your family to be a math family?

This is like someone saying they're from a sports family but they never did any after school sports. Possible, but unusual.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do private school kids catch up in the math sciences when they attend college? Or, do most private schools students mostly move to non STEM subjects?

great question.

At our K-12 private in DC the "math families" had their kids doing Kumon on the side since 2nd grade and were pushed to join math club early on.

What is math club?

A club where kids do challenging math problems and sometimes learn the concepts and skills necessary to solve them

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've seen numerous posts here that the kids coming out of privates in middle school are behind in math compared to their public school counterparts. But what does that mean? What level should graduating 8th graders be? Algebra 1? Geometry? Algebra 2?

I feel the issue is not that private schools are behind. Do they practice enough fundamental skills?

Obviously it depends on the private, but I think for the most part private schools focus on mastering fundamental skills vs. arms racing to complete calculus by high school.

I agree with this, but it also depends on the specific private. Obviously there are more math/science focused privates. And Catholic schools - very generally speaking - have a reputation in being weaker in math and stronger at English. Our private has a lot of repetition (Saxon Math in elementary) and focuses on mastery of fundamental math, not on speeding through to get to Algebra by 7th. A lot of public school kids around me are doing 2x/week tutoring in 2nd-5th to try to get into advanced math whenever it is offered at the public.

Saxon Math is one of the best curricula. Students who do that whole sequence end up with great conceptual understanding and great computational ability.

Which privates are using it?

nSaxon math is not the best, it's spiral is too tight and leads to students memorizing procedures rather than understanding the underlying concepts. It's also a ton of work - more than necessary for many kids.

Better would be math mammoth, Singapore math (dimensions or primary, but not primary 2022), and for honors students, beast academy/AoPS

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've seen numerous posts here that the kids coming out of privates in middle school are behind in math compared to their public school counterparts. But what does that mean? What level should graduating 8th graders be? Algebra 1? Geometry? Algebra 2?

I feel the issue is not that private schools are behind. Do they practice enough fundamental skills?

Obviously it depends on the private, but I think for the most part private schools focus on mastering fundamental skills vs. arms racing to complete calculus by high school.

I agree with this, but it also depends on the specific private. Obviously there are more math/science focused privates. And Catholic schools - very generally speaking - have a reputation in being weaker in math and stronger at English. Our private has a lot of repetition (Saxon Math in elementary) and focuses on mastery of fundamental math, not on speeding through to get to Algebra by 7th. A lot of public school kids around me are doing 2x/week tutoring in 2nd-5th to try to get into advanced math whenever it is offered at the public.

Saxon Math is one of the best curricula. Students who do that whole sequence end up with great conceptual understanding and great computational ability.

Which privates are using it?

nSaxon math is not the best, it's spiral is too tight and leads to students memorizing procedures rather than understanding the underlying concepts. It's also a ton of work - more than necessary for many kids.

Better would be math mammoth, Singapore math (dimensions or primary, but not primary 2022), and for honors students, beast academy/AoPS

People keep mentioning AoPS Beast Academy which is great for critical thinking puzzle math but I can’t see it helping you place into advanced math at school. A 4th grader who took Beast Math 3 and 4 won’t place better into advanced 5th grade math over a kid who simply studied common core Math 4 and 5.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The standard in private school is Algebra 1 in 8th. A few are accelerated to A1 in 7th, but almost none in 6th. Some public school systems are willing to accelerate much more routinely. I'm not sure what the point is -- anyone who needs post-calculus would benefit from taking a more in depth class in college.

The obsession with doing post calculus work in HS is silly—I’d argue that’s true even if your kid will likely be a math major (and you’d have to start thinking about that at a very young age which I also think is silly). You will get more in depth post calculus classes in college.

You don't get it. It's for college admissions. The arms race for college admissions has never been more cutthroat.

Well, that doesn't play out in private schools. Kids attending top colleges from our school did not take post calc. It simply is not required.

[Anonymous]

One of our kids took AP Calc AB as a senior and tested out of math for college (where he got a merit award). Will never need another math class in his life.

Other kid took post AP math classes, but then needed 7 math classes for his major so started at Calc II instead of where he placed based on the advice of his academic advisor.

The silly high school math race is a race to nowhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The standard in private school is Algebra 1 in 8th. A few are accelerated to A1 in 7th, but almost none in 6th. Some public school systems are willing to accelerate much more routinely. I'm not sure what the point is -- anyone who needs post-calculus would benefit from taking a more in depth class in college.

The obsession with doing post calculus work in HS is silly—I’d argue that’s true even if your kid will likely be a math major (and you’d have to start thinking about that at a very young age which I also think is silly). You will get more in depth post calculus classes in college.

You don't get it. It's for college admissions. The arms race for college admissions has never been more cutthroat.

Well, that doesn't play out in private schools. Kids attending top colleges from our school did not take post calc. It simply is not required.

At my kid's private school, the kids who took BC Calc during sophomore year had the best college results (multiple offers in T10). I'm sure their overall applications were strong but academically they were super strong in math.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The standard in private school is Algebra 1 in 8th. A few are accelerated to A1 in 7th, but almost none in 6th. Some public school systems are willing to accelerate much more routinely. I'm not sure what the point is -- anyone who needs post-calculus would benefit from taking a more in depth class in college.

The obsession with doing post calculus work in HS is silly—I’d argue that’s true even if your kid will likely be a math major (and you’d have to start thinking about that at a very young age which I also think is silly). You will get more in depth post calculus classes in college.

You don't get it. It's for college admissions. The arms race for college admissions has never been more cutthroat.

Well, that doesn't play out in private schools. Kids attending top colleges from our school did not take post calc. It simply is not required.

It’s not required from public school either. Public schools just seem more likely to attract a group of parents who have a race-to-nowhere mentality.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The standard in private school is Algebra 1 in 8th. A few are accelerated to A1 in 7th, but almost none in 6th. Some public school systems are willing to accelerate much more routinely. I'm not sure what the point is -- anyone who needs post-calculus would benefit from taking a more in depth class in college.

The obsession with doing post calculus work in HS is silly—I’d argue that’s true even if your kid will likely be a math major (and you’d have to start thinking about that at a very young age which I also think is silly). You will get more in depth post calculus classes in college.

You don't get it. It's for college admissions. The arms race for college admissions has never been more cutthroat.

Well, that doesn't play out in private schools. Kids attending top colleges from our school did not take post calc. It simply is not required.

At my kid's private school, the kids who took BC Calc during sophomore year had the best college results (multiple offers in T10). I'm sure their overall applications were strong but academically they were super strong in math.

I mean that’s clearly a correlation / causation argument. It was likely they were also just the smartest, most motivated students. They probably would have done well with admissions even if they weren’t 2 years ahead in math

[Anonymous]

Avoiding the 15 month gap between Algebra 1 and Algebra 2 is a pretty compelling reason for summer geometry.