Can someone explain the "behind in math" thing?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The standard in private school is Algebra 1 in 8th. A few are accelerated to A1 in 7th, but almost none in 6th. Some public school systems are willing to accelerate much more routinely. I'm not sure what the point is -- anyone who needs post-calculus would benefit from taking a more in depth class in college.

The obsession with doing post calculus work in HS is silly—I’d argue that’s true even if your kid will likely be a math major (and you’d have to start thinking about that at a very young age which I also think is silly). You will get more in depth post calculus classes in college.

You don't get it. It's for college admissions. The arms race for college admissions has never been more cutthroat.

You are the one who doesn't get it. College admissions see right through the nonsense of taking "Multivariable Calculus" or "Differential Equations" taught by a computer or a high school math teacher.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The standard in private school is Algebra 1 in 8th. A few are accelerated to A1 in 7th, but almost none in 6th. Some public school systems are willing to accelerate much more routinely. I'm not sure what the point is -- anyone who needs post-calculus would benefit from taking a more in depth class in college.

The obsession with doing post calculus work in HS is silly—I’d argue that’s true even if your kid will likely be a math major (and you’d have to start thinking about that at a very young age which I also think is silly). You will get more in depth post calculus classes in college.

You don't get it. It's for college admissions. The arms race for college admissions has never been more cutthroat.

Many colleges (arbitrary example: UVA) say they are looking for applicants to take the most rigorous courses (in all or most HS subjects, not just in math) available at the student's HS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The standard in private school is Algebra 1 in 8th. A few are accelerated to A1 in 7th, but almost none in 6th. Some public school systems are willing to accelerate much more routinely. I'm not sure what the point is -- anyone who needs post-calculus would benefit from taking a more in depth class in college.

The obsession with doing post calculus work in HS is silly—I’d argue that’s true even if your kid will likely be a math major (and you’d have to start thinking about that at a very young age which I also think is silly). You will get more in depth post calculus classes in college.

You don't get it. It's for college admissions. The arms race for college admissions has never been more cutthroat.

You are the one who doesn't get it. College admissions see right through the nonsense of taking "Multivariable Calculus" or "Differential Equations" taught by a computer or a high school math teacher.

Public students commonly take AP Calculus AB/BC and Stats. If they're scoring 5s, there's no reason to think that they're not also mastering multivariable calc or differential equations. Unlike private schools with their "we have a proprietary special curriculum and there's no way to judge our students against other students" attitude.

[Anonymous]

Private schools vary widely but a lot of them had very weak math programs 20 years ago, especially in lower schools. This led to a stereotype that private schools are behind in math. Sometimes it was true - I went to a parish school that was very weak in math.

More recently, private school programs have gotten better while public schools deal with a variety of challenges that diminish instruction. So you end up in a debate over acceleration, which is not the same thing as a strong math program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The standard in private school is Algebra 1 in 8th. A few are accelerated to A1 in 7th, but almost none in 6th. Some public school systems are willing to accelerate much more routinely. I'm not sure what the point is -- anyone who needs post-calculus would benefit from taking a more in depth class in college.

The obsession with doing post calculus work in HS is silly—I’d argue that’s true even if your kid will likely be a math major (and you’d have to start thinking about that at a very young age which I also think is silly). You will get more in depth post calculus classes in college.

You don't get it. It's for college admissions. The arms race for college admissions has never been more cutthroat.

If that's truly the motivation, kids at schools without massive acceleration aren't hurt because they are compared to their opportunities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The standard in private school is Algebra 1 in 8th. A few are accelerated to A1 in 7th, but almost none in 6th. Some public school systems are willing to accelerate much more routinely. I'm not sure what the point is -- anyone who needs post-calculus would benefit from taking a more in depth class in college.

The obsession with doing post calculus work in HS is silly—I’d argue that’s true even if your kid will likely be a math major (and you’d have to start thinking about that at a very young age which I also think is silly). You will get more in depth post calculus classes in college.

You don't get it. It's for college admissions. The arms race for college admissions has never been more cutthroat.

You are the one who doesn't get it. College admissions see right through the nonsense of taking "Multivariable Calculus" or "Differential Equations" taught by a computer or a high school math teacher.

Are you stupid? Maybe you haven't experienced college admissions recently? The kids are judged according to what's available at their high school. If the high school has post-AP calc courses, such as multivariable calculus, which is usually taught by a dual enrollment teacher, the counselor can only check the box of "has taken most rigorous courses" if the student gets to multivariable. That's just one example. It's like this in every subject.

There is nothing to see right through, PP. Differential equations is differential equations no matter who teaches it. It means you've taken a shitload of other math first, and your SAT and AP exam scores are proof that you've mastered algebra and calculus, respectively. You can be jealous all you want, but college admissions officers do respect that sort of math track.

- scientist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The majority of private schools in the DC area can and do offer Algebra 1 in 7th grade. The difference is that public schools, which are larger and therefore can offer and staff for more classes and tracks, can accelerate even further. Very, very few privates can accommodate precalc by 9th, for example. Publics can.

But I really don’t see the need for kids to get more than a year or two beyond Calculus in HS - if they even get beyond Calculus in HS. That’s what college is *for*.

My thinking has changed on this after talking to a student who took differential equations or whatever the class is after Calculus B/C. Kid was at a competitive engineering program and came in w/ tons of AP credits overall, but the program required retaking that class for anyone who took it as a high school class. All to say, it probably helped with admission but that’s probably it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The standard in private school is Algebra 1 in 8th. A few are accelerated to A1 in 7th, but almost none in 6th. Some public school systems are willing to accelerate much more routinely. I'm not sure what the point is -- anyone who needs post-calculus would benefit from taking a more in depth class in college.

The obsession with doing post calculus work in HS is silly—I’d argue that’s true even if your kid will likely be a math major (and you’d have to start thinking about that at a very young age which I also think is silly). You will get more in depth post calculus classes in college.

You don't get it. It's for college admissions. The arms race for college admissions has never been more cutthroat.

You are the one who doesn't get it. College admissions see right through the nonsense of taking "Multivariable Calculus" or "Differential Equations" taught by a computer or a high school math teacher.

Are you stupid? Maybe you haven't experienced college admissions recently? The kids are judged according to what's available at their high school. If the high school has post-AP calc courses, such as multivariable calculus, which is usually taught by a dual enrollment teacher, the counselor can only check the box of "has taken most rigorous courses" if the student gets to multivariable. That's just one example. It's like this in every subject.

There is nothing to see right through, PP. Differential equations is differential equations no matter who teaches it. It means you've taken a shitload of other math first, and your SAT and AP exam scores are proof that you've mastered algebra and calculus, respectively. You can be jealous all you want, but college admissions officers do respect that sort of math track.

- scientist.

Are you mean in real life? Honest question.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The standard in private school is Algebra 1 in 8th. A few are accelerated to A1 in 7th, but almost none in 6th. Some public school systems are willing to accelerate much more routinely. I'm not sure what the point is -- anyone who needs post-calculus would benefit from taking a more in depth class in college.

The obsession with doing post calculus work in HS is silly—I’d argue that’s true even if your kid will likely be a math major (and you’d have to start thinking about that at a very young age which I also think is silly). You will get more in depth post calculus classes in college.

You don't get it. It's for college admissions. The arms race for college admissions has never been more cutthroat.

You are the one who doesn't get it. College admissions see right through the nonsense of taking "Multivariable Calculus" or "Differential Equations" taught by a computer or a high school math teacher.

Are you stupid? Maybe you haven't experienced college admissions recently? The kids are judged according to what's available at their high school. If the high school has post-AP calc courses, such as multivariable calculus, which is usually taught by a dual enrollment teacher, the counselor can only check the box of "has taken most rigorous courses" if the student gets to multivariable. That's just one example. It's like this in every subject.

There is nothing to see right through, PP. Differential equations is differential equations no matter who teaches it. It means you've taken a shitload of other math first, and your SAT and AP exam scores are proof that you've mastered algebra and calculus, respectively. You can be jealous all you want, but college admissions officers do respect that sort of math track.

- scientist.

My white, unhooked daughter was admitted to 2 Ivies as an engineering major this year despite only taking calculus AB at a school that offers math 2 years beyond calculus. Riddle that, professor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
My thinking has changed on this after talking to a student who took differential equations or whatever the class is after Calculus B/C. Kid was at a competitive engineering program and came in w/ tons of AP credits overall, but the program required retaking that class for anyone who took it as a high school class. All to say, it probably helped with admission but that’s probably it.

It probably also helped the student have a good grade when retaking the course and exit the course with a more solid understanding of the material.

Imagine learning it de novo in a class where many of the students already have studied the subject AND where the course grades are plotted on a curve. The ones who took it before are likely to be at the top of the curve and the ones who have not seen it before at the bottom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
My thinking has changed on this after talking to a student who took differential equations or whatever the class is after Calculus B/C. Kid was at a competitive engineering program and came in w/ tons of AP credits overall, but the program required retaking that class for anyone who took it as a high school class. All to say, it probably helped with admission but that’s probably it.

It probably also helped the student have a good grade when retaking the course and exit the course with a more solid understanding of the material.

Imagine learning it de novo in a class where many of the students already have studied the subject AND where the course grades are plotted on a curve. The ones who took it before are likely to be at the top of the curve and the ones who have not seen it before at the bottom.

When you apply to college your school sends a sheet to the university so that they understand the curriculum, rigor, etc at the high school. Very often colleges/universities are familiar with high schools so don’t need this detail, but many do so they send it to all. If the highest level of math available on campus is AP Calc BC and your kid took it, did well, has been on the honors track, it doesn’t matter if they started with Geometry in 9th grade. You are compared to others in your school.

The above describes DD. She now attends a favorite DCUM school, is a STEM major, and took ML and beyond in college. She had a solid foundation from HS and did well. She got into 3 of 4 “top” schools she applied to.

I’ll concede that the accelerated math does help with HS magnet admissions, but the myth that you need to be crazy accelerated in HS to get into top colleges is simply not true—or at least not true across the board

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ummm. Not everyone needs to go to college. Trades are very important. Obviously most kids at Privates will go to college so its not even really relevant for this thread but its not pathetic that people choose not to go to college.

Wrong statistically publics send more kids to college and more of them finish in four years

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
My thinking has changed on this after talking to a student who took differential equations or whatever the class is after Calculus B/C. Kid was at a competitive engineering program and came in w/ tons of AP credits overall, but the program required retaking that class for anyone who took it as a high school class. All to say, it probably helped with admission but that’s probably it.

It probably also helped the student have a good grade when retaking the course and exit the course with a more solid understanding of the material.

Imagine learning it de novo in a class where many of the students already have studied the subject AND where the course grades are plotted on a curve. The ones who took it before are likely to be at the top of the curve and the ones who have not seen it before at the bottom.

When you apply to college your school sends a sheet to the university so that they understand the curriculum, rigor, etc at the high school. Very often colleges/universities are familiar with high schools so don’t need this detail, but many do so they send it to all. If the highest level of math available on campus is AP Calc BC and your kid took it, did well, has been on the honors track, it doesn’t matter if they started with Geometry in 9th grade. You are compared to others in your school.

The above describes DD. She now attends a favorite DCUM school, is a STEM major, and took ML and beyond in college. She had a solid foundation from HS and did well. She got into 3 of 4 “top” schools she applied to.

I’ll concede that the accelerated math does help with HS magnet admissions, but the myth that you need to be crazy accelerated in HS to get into top colleges is simply not true—or at least not true across the board

How odd. Quoted post said zero about admissions and was from a new poster. It is as if person just did not bother to read the quoted post...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
My thinking has changed on this after talking to a student who took differential equations or whatever the class is after Calculus B/C. Kid was at a competitive engineering program and came in w/ tons of AP credits overall, but the program required retaking that class for anyone who took it as a high school class. All to say, it probably helped with admission but that’s probably it.

It probably also helped the student have a good grade when retaking the course and exit the course with a more solid understanding of the material.

Imagine learning it de novo in a class where many of the students already have studied the subject AND where the course grades are plotted on a curve. The ones who took it before are likely to be at the top of the curve and the ones who have not seen it before at the bottom.

When you apply to college your school sends a sheet to the university so that they understand the curriculum, rigor, etc at the high school. Very often colleges/universities are familiar with high schools so don’t need this detail, but many do so they send it to all. If the highest level of math available on campus is AP Calc BC and your kid took it, did well, has been on the honors track, it doesn’t matter if they started with Geometry in 9th grade. You are compared to others in your school.

The above describes DD. She now attends a favorite DCUM school, is a STEM major, and took ML and beyond in college. She had a solid foundation from HS and did well. She got into 3 of 4 “top” schools she applied to.

I’ll concede that the accelerated math does help with HS magnet admissions, but the myth that you need to be crazy accelerated in HS to get into top colleges is simply not true—or at least not true across the board

How odd. Quoted post said zero about admissions and was from a new poster. It is as if person just did not bother to read the quoted post...

I suspect pp accidentally hit the wrong quote button and meant to respond the post above the one quoted, which read, “ My white, unhooked daughter was admitted to 2 Ivies as an engineering major this year despite only taking calculus AB at a school that offers math 2 years beyond calculus.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In public, standard for Algebra 1 is 7th or 8th, and some start it in 6th for average to smart kids. Kids who struggle start it in 8-9th.

What? No. The standard in public is Alg I in 9th. Pre-Alg is the standard in 8th, with honors math being Alg 1 in 8th, which nearly all middle schools offer. A small percentage of public schools offer Alg 1 in 7th, but not most, and even smaller percentage offer it in 6th.

Private would Alg 1 in 8th as standard. Sometimes Alg 1 in 7th or 6th as accelerated.