Can someone explain the "behind in math" thing?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've seen numerous posts here that the kids coming out of privates in middle school are behind in math compared to their public school counterparts. But what does that mean? What level should graduating 8th graders be? Algebra 1? Geometry? Algebra 2?

I feel the issue is not that private schools are behind. Do they practice enough fundamental skills?

Obviously it depends on the private, but I think for the most part private schools focus on mastering fundamental skills vs. arms racing to complete calculus by high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The standard in private school is Algebra 1 in 8th. A few are accelerated to A1 in 7th, but almost none in 6th. Some public school systems are willing to accelerate much more routinely. I'm not sure what the point is -- anyone who needs post-calculus would benefit from taking a more in depth class in college.

The obsession with doing post calculus work in HS is silly—I’d argue that’s true even if your kid will likely be a math major (and you’d have to start thinking about that at a very young age which I also think is silly). You will get more in depth post calculus classes in college.

You don't get it. It's for college admissions. The arms race for college admissions has never been more cutthroat.

+1

Parents push their kids to take the most accelerated math path and as many APs as possible so their kids get the "most rigorous" mark on their college applications.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do private school kids catch up in the math sciences when they attend college? Or, do most private schools students mostly move to non STEM subjects?

There is no "catching up" needed. Most stem oriented private school students get to BC calc or the equivalent, and anything after that needs to be retaken in college anyway.

when do you take Stats class if you do Calculus senior year?

Double up in 11th or 12th or just wait until college, if they take it at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do private school kids catch up in the math sciences when they attend college? Or, do most private schools students mostly move to non STEM subjects?

great question.

At our K-12 private in DC the "math families" had their kids doing Kumon on the side since 2nd grade and were pushed to join math club early on.

As a member of a "math family" that attended privates that did algebra in 8th grade. We didn't do any tutoring (although I did ask to go to match camp which is super fun, I did an architecture course) or be pushed to join a match club (I did do one of the competition clubs cause it was also fun and I stopped for sports). My whole family went to great colleges and no one felt behind in math although there were some whizzes who raced through the math levels ahead of us, but those friends weren't necessarily knocking it out of the park in college match either...

Huh?

Why would you feel behind in match if you didn’t major in match?

FYI- Algebra I or I or integrated is standard for 7th & 8th grade nowadays for top quartile students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've seen numerous posts here that the kids coming out of privates in middle school are behind in math compared to their public school counterparts. But what does that mean? What level should graduating 8th graders be? Algebra 1? Geometry? Algebra 2?

I feel the issue is not that private schools are behind. Do they practice enough fundamental skills?

Not until upper school.

Easier to teach a 15 yo than a 12 yo. Pack it all in!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've seen numerous posts here that the kids coming out of privates in middle school are behind in math compared to their public school counterparts. But what does that mean? What level should graduating 8th graders be? Algebra 1? Geometry? Algebra 2?

I feel the issue is not that private schools are behind. Do they practice enough fundamental skills?

Obviously it depends on the private, but I think for the most part private schools focus on mastering fundamental skills vs. arms racing to complete calculus by high school.

Over 3/4s of gds and sfs take calculus before graduating. It’s hardly an arms race, but it is a good indicator of brainpower and learning capacity, regardless of future major.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do private school kids catch up in the math sciences when they attend college? Or, do most private schools students mostly move to non STEM subjects?

There is no "catching up" needed. Most stem oriented private school students get to BC calc or the equivalent, and anything after that needs to be retaken in college anyway.

when do you take Stats class if you do Calculus senior year?

Double up in 11th or 12th or just wait until college, if they take it at all.

That’s too bad, it’s such a helpful course. Everyone who reads the news should take a real stats class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The standard in private school is Algebra 1 in 8th. A few are accelerated to A1 in 7th, but almost none in 6th. Some public school systems are willing to accelerate much more routinely. I'm not sure what the point is -- anyone who needs post-calculus would benefit from taking a more in depth class in college.

The obsession with doing post calculus work in HS is silly—I’d argue that’s true even if your kid will likely be a math major (and you’d have to start thinking about that at a very young age which I also think is silly). You will get more in depth post calculus classes in college.

You don't get it. It's for college admissions. The arms race for college admissions has never been more cutthroat.

+1

Parents push their kids to take the most accelerated math path and as many APs as possible so their kids get the "most rigorous" mark on their college applications.

College admissions being more competitive than ever is a complete myth. Population of college bound seniors is low right now. Many colleges struggling majorly financially.

I would agree that is the case for private school students at elite universities - but the reason it is more “competitive” for those students is the schools are more fair towards public school students than they used to be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The standard in private school is Algebra 1 in 8th. A few are accelerated to A1 in 7th, but almost none in 6th. Some public school systems are willing to accelerate much more routinely. I'm not sure what the point is -- anyone who needs post-calculus would benefit from taking a more in depth class in college.

The obsession with doing post calculus work in HS is silly—I’d argue that’s true even if your kid will likely be a math major (and you’d have to start thinking about that at a very young age which I also think is silly). You will get more in depth post calculus classes in college.

You don't get it. It's for college admissions. The arms race for college admissions has never been more cutthroat.

PP above is correct that people do that for college admissions.

That said, an academically strong private school will have a (non-accelerated) math option to let most students take some form of Calculus in HS. That might not be Honors or Advanced or AP, just the regular Calculus class.

My ancient private school in a different Metro is NOT strong in STEM. More students graduating from there study Business, Economics, or Humanities than study STEM - when they attend college. Yet it still has 90+% of students taking Calculus in HS. A small slice, maybe 5-10% varying with the specific graduating class, end with math analysis at that school. Generally, the students ending with math analysis were weaker academically in all subjects - or perhaps were students with dyscalculia.

[Anonymous]

PP again. Realized I wrote awkwardly. To be clear 100% of students went to college after graduating.

Stronger students attended HYPCS - or if going overseas then colleges such as LSE, StA, or Oxbridge. Only a few go into Science or Engineering or Math. Many study Humanities and are either pre-Law or Pre-Med.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The standard in private school is Algebra 1 in 8th. A few are accelerated to A1 in 7th, but almost none in 6th. Some public school systems are willing to accelerate much more routinely. I'm not sure what the point is -- anyone who needs post-calculus would benefit from taking a more in depth class in college.

The obsession with doing post calculus work in HS is silly—I’d argue that’s true even if your kid will likely be a math major (and you’d have to start thinking about that at a very young age which I also think is silly). You will get more in depth post calculus classes in college.

You don't get it. It's for college admissions. The arms race for college admissions has never been more cutthroat.

+1

Parents push their kids to take the most accelerated math path and as many APs as possible so their kids get the "most rigorous" mark on their college applications.

College admissions being more competitive than ever is a complete myth. Population of college bound seniors is low right now. Many colleges struggling majorly financially.

I would agree that is the case for private school students at elite universities - but the reason it is more “competitive” for those students is the schools are more fair towards public school students than they used to be.

Competition at the upper tier of colleges remains very high. Population drop is not changing this at all.

The colleges that are in trouble or are closing tend to be both lower-tier and smaller.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've seen numerous posts here that the kids coming out of privates in middle school are behind in math compared to their public school counterparts. But what does that mean? What level should graduating 8th graders be? Algebra 1? Geometry? Algebra 2?

I feel the issue is not that private schools are behind. Do they practice enough fundamental skills?

Obviously it depends on the private, but I think for the most part private schools focus on mastering fundamental skills vs. arms racing to complete calculus by high school.

I agree with this, but it also depends on the specific private. Obviously there are more math/science focused privates. And Catholic schools - very generally speaking - have a reputation in being weaker in math and stronger at English. Our private has a lot of repetition (Saxon Math in elementary) and focuses on mastery of fundamental math, not on speeding through to get to Algebra by 7th. A lot of public school kids around me are doing 2x/week tutoring in 2nd-5th to try to get into advanced math whenever it is offered at the public.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do private school kids catch up in the math sciences when they attend college? Or, do most private schools students mostly move to non STEM subjects?

great question.

At our K-12 private in DC the "math families" had their kids doing Kumon on the side since 2nd grade and were pushed to join math club early on.

What is math club?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The standard in private school is Algebra 1 in 8th. A few are accelerated to A1 in 7th, but almost none in 6th. Some public school systems are willing to accelerate much more routinely. I'm not sure what the point is -- anyone who needs post-calculus would benefit from taking a more in depth class in college.

The obsession with doing post calculus work in HS is silly—I’d argue that’s true even if your kid will likely be a math major (and you’d have to start thinking about that at a very young age which I also think is silly). You will get more in depth post calculus classes in college.

You don't get it. It's for college admissions. The arms race for college admissions has never been more cutthroat.

+1

Parents push their kids to take the most accelerated math path and as many APs as possible so their kids get the "most rigorous" mark on their college applications.

College admissions being more competitive than ever is a complete myth. Population of college bound seniors is low right now. Many colleges struggling majorly financially.

I would agree that is the case for private school students at elite universities - but the reason it is more “competitive” for those students is the schools are more fair towards public school students than they used to be.

Competition at the upper tier of colleges remains very high. Population drop is not changing this at all.

The colleges that are in trouble or are closing tend to be both lower-tier and smaller.

I agree that it remains competitive - but I don't buy into that it is more competitive than ever. These schools have simply stopped letting in 50% of private school students, which makes people around here think it is more competitive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The standard in private school is Algebra 1 in 8th. A few are accelerated to A1 in 7th, but almost none in 6th. Some public school systems are willing to accelerate much more routinely. I'm not sure what the point is -- anyone who needs post-calculus would benefit from taking a more in depth class in college.

The obsession with doing post calculus work in HS is silly—I’d argue that’s true even if your kid will likely be a math major (and you’d have to start thinking about that at a very young age which I also think is silly). You will get more in depth post calculus classes in college.

You don't get it. It's for college admissions. The arms race for college admissions has never been more cutthroat.

+1

Parents push their kids to take the most accelerated math path and as many APs as possible so their kids get the "most rigorous" mark on their college applications.

College admissions being more competitive than ever is a complete myth. Population of college bound seniors is low right now. Many colleges struggling majorly financially.

I would agree that is the case for private school students at elite universities - but the reason it is more “competitive” for those students is the schools are more fair towards public school students than they used to be.

Speaking of needing to take AP stats class….

Half of the colleges here are Tier 2 or 3 and you never heard of. That’s good news bad for profit colleges are disappearing. Hardly anyone ended up graduating there anyways, they’d do 1-2 years, run out of money, and leave.