Will RTO be relaxed ever?

[Anonymous]

Stop signing your kids up for all of these activities. It’s overkill and it makes you all grumpy and tired. Go to work and do your job and stop acting like divas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Long commutes, long hours, no remote options and work travel and forced after work dinners and drinks are actually good for 90 percent of Moms with young kids.

Two reasons: first

1. 90 percent of jobs are crap. Low paid sit in cube dead end. So 90 percent of people working have a meaningless job with crap pay.
2. When my three kids were young 1, 5 and 7 I worked a in person job that was demanding and in return got $360k a year and wife stayed home and plenty of money. My wife had a cube level dead end job in a big bank and was more than happy to leave after 14 years of it.

Then Covid hit. I was laid off and all at once my same jobs now remote with tons of flexibility all we’re paying $160k to $170k a $200,000 a year paycut!! My wife could go back to work but she would barely make 100k so we are talking 260k we both work which is $100k less with tons of extra expenses and stress.

Luckily I found a place RTO in 2023 and after three years in pajamas sleeping in for peanuts got back to real pay again. Our stress went away and wife is happy.

in person a blessing 90 percent of Moms.

Your situation is not that common. I worked from home for 15 years...before and through Covid with flexible scheduling. Now I work in the office 5 days a week due the same pay (way less than 350k). DW has always needed to work. I do not know a single mom who considers in person a blessing.

But that is your failure not hers. Take a demanding job. They pay more. You should be in the 10 percent high paying jobs not the bottom 90 percent. you spouse should quit and throw a rock on your back to earn more.

Not all of us want our spouse to have to shoulder a demanding career and the financial responsibility by themselves. I like that my DH is around to handle sick days, early release, coaching little league at 5 PM, etc. Time and flexibility are luxuries in many ways that outweigh money. Also I don’t want to be the default caregiver, handle all the home stuff, etc. by myself. I want to use my higher education.

But 90 percent of people dont use education and do meaningless jobs. Plus in REAL WORLD 1 + 1 = 3. Meaning a single person devoted to work will over time make triple the average worker. So dual income does not make as much as single income in a lot of cases. Unless both are rock stars. But remember 90 percent of jobs are not great. Odds are both of you wont be in the top 10 percent of earners. If you are great. I don't think Matt Damon's wife going back to work is a good business propositon or Michelle Obama working while Barack Obama was president.

And roles go both ways. Mark Sanchez who was a NY Jets QB and a very short lived career as a sports announcer is now a stay at home Dad for a few years as his Wife is the bread winner and he supports her career. Yea he could try to do local TV I guess or used car lot commercials but his better focus is being a stay at home dad and let his wife earn the bacon.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In Manhattan NYC pretty much everyone commutes one hour 15 minute one way every day from suburbs and do it for 30-40 years. It is not a big deal.

"People do it" doesn't mean it's not a big deal. People endure and live thru all kinds of things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In Manhattan NYC pretty much everyone commutes one hour 15 minute one way every day from suburbs and do it for 30-40 years. It is not a big deal.

"People do it" doesn't mean it's not a big deal. People endure and live thru all kinds of things.

It isn’t a big deal. If you had been working in person all of this time, you’d understand. Getting to and from work is part of working. I love my commute. It’s the only time I don’t have responsibilities for kids (I’m a teacher). My two hours a day in the car are productive. I talk to my two friends in Europe on the way to work. I listen to podcasts and audiobooks. When I commuted in London on the bus and Tube, I used that time (more than an hour) doing bills, reading, etc. I miss my London commute because I didn’t have to drive.

The point is to be grateful for your easy years of no commuting. It was a nice, unexpected gift and now it’s over. It’s time to join the rest of us who never got that nice gift.

[Anonymous]

The point is to be grateful for your easy years of no commuting. It was a nice, unexpected gift and now it’s over. It’s time to join the rest of us who never got that nice gift

I should have enjoyed the time that I could get a COVID vaccine covered by insurance while lasted. My son's best friend should have enjoyed being eligible for the level of loans he needed for college while it lasted. Venezuelans who were here illegally should have enjoyed their gift of not being sent to CECOT while it lasted. So many gifts, and we should all be so grateful!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I am a fellow fed and if you asked me a week ago, I would have said no way RTO would be relaxed until at least 2029. However, just recently, management at my agency made some comments about needing to match private sector hybrid that gives me hope. Might be false hope but I think there are sections of the govt that might change. I think it will largely depend on how many people have left the agency, how desperate the agency is to hire again, and how competitive the agency is with private sector. So highly highly agency dependent.

It’s been relaxed a bit in my agency. Don’t want to say more than that. But. There’s hope

[Anonymous]

DOL has reintroduced situational telework for doctor appointments, school events, home repairs, illness, etc. management is soo skittish and I sat in multiple meetings where people were warned not to “abuse” the generosity of our overlords.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

The point is to be grateful for your easy years of no commuting. It was a nice, unexpected gift and now it’s over. It’s time to join the rest of us who never got that nice gift

I should have enjoyed the time that I could get a COVID vaccine covered by insurance while lasted. My son's best friend should have enjoyed being eligible for the level of loans he needed for college while it lasted. Venezuelans who were here illegally should have enjoyed their gift of not being sent to CECOT while it lasted. So many gifts, and we should all be so grateful!

Yep but instead you feel bitter and angry. If it weren’t for college loans, I wouldn’t have been able to earn what I earn. I happily repaid my loans and never expected anyone to forgive them. I got a weekend job and paid them off as fast as I could. I’m grateful that the local florist gave me a weekend job delivering flowers so I could pay off the loans. He later provided flowers for my wedding at no cost. Start looking at life differently and you won’t be a bitter person. I’m sure those feds who were laid off would love to have a long commute if it meant they had a job.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Long commutes, long hours, no remote options and work travel and forced after work dinners and drinks are actually good for 90 percent of Moms with young kids.

Two reasons: first

1. 90 percent of jobs are crap. Low paid sit in cube dead end. So 90 percent of people working have a meaningless job with crap pay.
2. When my three kids were young 1, 5 and 7 I worked a in person job that was demanding and in return got $360k a year and wife stayed home and plenty of money. My wife had a cube level dead end job in a big bank and was more than happy to leave after 14 years of it.

Then Covid hit. I was laid off and all at once my same jobs now remote with tons of flexibility all we’re paying $160k to $170k a $200,000 a year paycut!! My wife could go back to work but she would barely make 100k so we are talking 260k we both work which is $100k less with tons of extra expenses and stress.

Luckily I found a place RTO in 2023 and after three years in pajamas sleeping in for peanuts got back to real pay again. Our stress went away and wife is happy.

in person a blessing 90 percent of Moms.

Your situation is not that common. I worked from home for 15 years...before and through Covid with flexible scheduling. Now I work in the office 5 days a week due the same pay (way less than 350k). DW has always needed to work. I do not know a single mom who considers in person a blessing.

But that is your failure not hers. Take a demanding job. They pay more. You should be in the 10 percent high paying jobs not the bottom 90 percent. you spouse should quit and throw a rock on your back to earn more.

Not all of us want our spouse to have to shoulder a demanding career and the financial responsibility by themselves. I like that my DH is around to handle sick days, early release, coaching little league at 5 PM, etc. Time and flexibility are luxuries in many ways that outweigh money. Also I don’t want to be the default caregiver, handle all the home stuff, etc. by myself. I want to use my higher education.

But 90 percent of people dont use education and do meaningless jobs. Plus in REAL WORLD 1 + 1 = 3. Meaning a single person devoted to work will over time make triple the average worker. So dual income does not make as much as single income in a lot of cases. Unless both are rock stars. But remember 90 percent of jobs are not great. Odds are both of you wont be in the top 10 percent of earners. If you are great. I don't think Matt Damon's wife going back to work is a good business propositon or Michelle Obama working while Barack Obama was president.

And roles go both ways. Mark Sanchez who was a NY Jets QB and a very short lived career as a sports announcer is now a stay at home Dad for a few years as his Wife is the bread winner and he supports her career. Yea he could try to do local TV I guess or used car lot commercials but his better focus is being a stay at home dad and let his wife earn the bacon.

Not everyone wants to be in the top 10% or be a “rock star” or whatever. There is more to life than chasing money. DH makes 200k and I make 150k with flexible jobs. I’m a fed who luckily still has some telework because of logistics at my agency (don’t want to publicize because I know it’s a sensitive subject). 350k feels like enough for us. We share bringing in income and childcare/house work.

I’m not saying everyone should do things like us, but there isn’t one perfect track for everyone. And I think it’s a shame that all the progress we made to allow regular workers to have work/life balance is being destroyed by evil rich a-holes who wake up in the morning with the intent to hurt people.

And by your own metrics, if 90% of jobs are not great then only 10% of households will ever be able to have a single earner with a job you deem to be good enough.

Also you just seem like a crappy person. The people working the 90% of jobs you disparage probably teach your children, collect your trash, test your water supply, harvest food for your table, etc. They provide value, maybe even more than someone who only cares about gaining personal wealth for their own family (plenty of high paying jobs aren’t really helping the betterment of society).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In Manhattan NYC pretty much everyone commutes one hour 15 minute one way every day from suburbs and do it for 30-40 years. It is not a big deal.

"People do it" doesn't mean it's not a big deal. People endure and live thru all kinds of things.

It isn’t a big deal. If you had been working in person all of this time, you’d understand. Getting to and from work is part of working. I love my commute. It’s the only time I don’t have responsibilities for kids (I’m a teacher). My two hours a day in the car are productive. I talk to my two friends in Europe on the way to work. I listen to podcasts and audiobooks. When I commuted in London on the bus and Tube, I used that time (more than an hour) doing bills, reading, etc. I miss my London commute because I didn’t have to drive.

The point is to be grateful for your easy years of no commuting. It was a nice, unexpected gift and now it’s over. It’s time to join the rest of us who never got that nice gift.

It was not just a nice, unexpected gift. Many of us were hired remote or hybrid well before COVID. We chose lesser paying career paths to have this benefit. The work/life balance was part of the overall compensation (the same way PTO, health insurance, and other non-monetary benefits are).

Presumably you chose your career path for a reason. Imagine if after years of not working summers you suddenly had year round school. The rest of us work summers and pay for expensive camps, so I guess you’d be totally cool with that changing because “it isn’t a big deal” right?

[Anonymous]

I do work summers and pay for overpriced camps. I started out on a year round schedule years ago and then my school switched to a traditional schedule. I chose my school because of the year round schedule but I could’ve left after the switch. The school has also changed start times many times. The last time was to switch to 7:30am and I had to then find a babysitter to take my kids to daycare. I paid a ridiculous amount of money for this. Again, I could’ve switched schools but I stayed. So what I signed up for is completely different too. That’s life.

[Anonymous]

They are providing feds a very viable option to telework. Just find Jesus, or any other colorable religion. Check out the “generous approach” adopted by OPM last month:

https://www.opm.gov/policy-data-oversight/latest-memos/reasonable-accommodations-for-religious-purposes/

[Anonymous]

And this:

https://www.fedsmith.com/2025/07/28/opm-memo-outlines-religious-expression-rights-in-federal-workplace/

[Anonymous]

Sorry, wrong link above. I meant this:

https://www.fedsmith.com/2025/07/16/telework-as-a-religious-accommodation-in-the-federal-workforce/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s hard OP. RTO for me meant a 90 minutes each way commute to a place I’d never worked before and turned my family’s life upside down.

It is very, very tough. While on one hand, yes I am physically able to get to the office and “work” each day, it is destroying my productivity and physical and mental health, affecting my relationships with my kids and family, and just making life absolutely miserable. But the people in charge now do not care about those things. They want us to be miserable and quit. Many of us are stuck between a rock and a hard place. My kids are teens; it would be devastating for them to have to pick up and move to a new area, and near impossible to find a good enough paying other job in this market.

So I do like many women have for thousands of years: put up with it, put my own physical and mental needs behind those of others, and just hope it will get better before I drop dead.

I’m also not sure it is worth it to stay in the fed workforce just because of the pension.
If I could, I would quit, move far away to lower COL area, and just start over in a new job, but that would really hurt my kids.

You think it doesn't impact men too? I don't get why women make it just about women.

Ok, so this is a parenting forum, and I am a mother. RTO impacts mothers especially. Remote work (zero commute) was the first time I ever had enough time and energy to give 100% at work and also be 100% of the mother I wanted to be and also had time to take care of myself. And I experienced much less anxiety while WFH and was able to really advance in my career, for the first time in my life.

I know there are exceptions but I am not seeing a lot of fathers who are as emotionally as devastated as mothers who had to RTO. I don’t even have little kids. I can’t imagine what it’s like being a parent of an infant with a 3 hour commute.

Remember this is not simply a return to the way things were before.

You hire help. It’s called childcare. Or, you live closer to your job.

My kids are teenagers. They don’t need childcare, but they do need a parent or adult in their life who is present and not a zombie. And I am not up rooting my teenagers and ruining their lives for some job that might fire me anyway. You can go right to hell.

So parents who work outside the home are zombies? Plenty of people commute to and from work every day. My commute is an hour each way. My DH is maybe 55 minutes each way. That’s about average for parents I know. I think you are overreacting.

IME basically no families with young kids have 2 parents working out of the home 5 days per week, especially with long commutes.

DH and I have both prioritized telework/flexible hours over chasing promotions. We have both been teleworking in some capacity since Obama 1.0 to make family life work.

Essentially everyone else I know is in this scenario of having at least one parent WAH, or they have one (or more) of the following: a SAH or part time working parent, local family help, or gobs of money to hire nannies/outsource. Or in the case of a teacher friend, she handles all school breaks / random days off and her husband takes the unexpected sick kid days off.

But you basically have to have some sort of adult on standby (either a parent, family member, or paid caregiver) while kids are young. I remember my kids’ preschool made us sign a contract that we could pickup within 1 hour if a kid got sick. No way we could do that while commuting over an hour each way.

And yeah, I do think someone who is commuting 3 hours per day, 5 days per week is going to have less energy to give to their kids. Zombie is an extreme word, but yeah, that lifestyle sounds draining unless it comes with a boatload of money to make other things easier.

Prior to 15 yrs ago, very few people worked remotely. Maybe your memory is short. There are also many jobs that cannot be done remotely. My kids are in college now but when they were little, everyone in my neighborhood commuted to work every day. That was the norm. If a kid got sick, me or my DH got in the car and picked them up. Ditto for everyone else. Very few families had SAHPs. It wasn’t financially feasible.

What is your point? 1000 years ago people raised kids without electricity. Does that mean we should we abolish lightbulbs?

Yep. My agency has had some form of telework for lawyers since 1996. Nothing to do with Covid. Also not remote - twice a week, which is quite reasonable and why their retention rate for women with families has always been very high.