As a Jew, I’m terrified

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jewish people always make everything about them

It stems from the whole framing of any event thru the lens of “is it good/bad for the Jews”

https://archive.nytimes.com/opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/03/04/is-it-good-for-the-jews/

Normally I flag this stuff but leaving it up for proof that DCUM is chock full of antisemites

Did you read the piece before crying antisemitism. NYT isn’t exactly an anti-Semitic hotbed. I thought it was interesting and actually very relevant.

What about posting this piece proves DCUM is anti-Semitic? Or is that just your reflexive reaction? And if so, isn’t that a problem?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It's quite obvious that the biggest culprit and cause of antisemitism is Israel. When you have a country that uses Judaism as a shield to commit war crimes, like genocide, ethnic cleansing, and land theft, innocent bystanders suffer as a result unfortunately.

Ironically, this is great for Israel because they can and have been weaponizing this antisemitism to continue to have impunity for their nefarious actions.

Lol yup. There was famously no antisemitism before the existence of the state of Israel.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:For the record I don’t agree with any of this — not what Israel is doing in Gaza and certainly not what’s happening in Iran. But, I fear how much I and all other American Jews are going to face even more antisemitism and retribution because of today’s actions. And I’m terrified.

Something tells me that you will be fine. Imagine being a Muslim in these United States right now. Now that group will face even more Islamophobia and harassment. It’s not all about you OP.

+1. This was my first thought when I read OP. It’s not all about you and you have the ability to make that clear by articulating you don’t support this. If more American Jews did this, it would impact the conversation.

But Muslims don’t have that luxury.

Muslims could speak up about Hamas and Iran. and it would have exactly the same influence on Islamophobia as speaking up about Gaza does on antisemitism. That is, zero.

We’ve been through this before. groups that are subject to animus have zero responsibility to declare themselves the “Good Ones” in order to be free from prejudice and hate crimes. It doesn’t work, and it’s not fair. This is exactly the same for antisemitism and Islamophobia and we learned this lesson after 9/11.

Muslims could also speak out against Islamic terror, the motivating force behind the ME terror regimes and groups. That would demonstrate that mainstream Muslims in the U.S. are cut from different cloth. But they don't say anything, why?

Should also be Jews responsible for speaking out against the genocide and ethnic cleansing Israel is committing?

That is literally what this thread is trying to do and the response has been “Jews make everything about themselves.” Because of antisemitism. That is a nakedly antisemitic viewpoint.

For some of you posters, breathing is antisemitism.

Please describe, in detail, why you think “Jews make everything about themselves” is not an antisemitic viewpoint. I’ll wait.

Israel attacks Iran. Jews immediately post about fear of antisemitism. They are the aggressor just like the US now but want to play the part of the victim. The person who said they use it as a get out of jail free card is onto the problem. Why don't you wait till something actually happens before you appeal to other's instincts to help you? Already most Americans are overwhelmed with the news that we are brought into this mess and most want out. We are too busy working to get our own government out of the conflict and deal with the people actually suffering physically to deal with your mental anguish. I don't have time for your fake victimhood saying that people are antisemitic because they don't agree with Israel or don't invite you to dinner anymore. Maybe they are being antisemitic but it's an appropriate response to the aggression. There are plenty of other groups that people display negativity towards. Anti-women, anti trans, anti gay, anti-white men, anti-blacks, anti-immigrant, anti-Palestinian. Unless there is an actual real threat to life I don't want to hear about it and am extremely upset we are now involved in yet another war placing the DC area in danger.

The entire point is Jews who have nothing to do with any of this are getting blamed. You do know that Jews already face the majority of hate crimes, right? https://www.marketwatch.com/story/jewish-people-make-up-2-4-of-the-u-s-population-but-are-the-targets-of-about-60-of-hate-crimes-linked-to-religion-says-fbi-director-2dd86906

Most people are able to make the distinction between Jews and Israel. Why can't you? Israel is being blamed, because Israel started this, knowing very well we would have to finish it.

I hear you, but Bill Ackman, Miriam Adelson, Jan Koum, and other prominent billionaire Americans Jews have stepped out to say they speak on behalf of Americans Jews, and support for Israel is number one.

Just because some rich jerk says they speak for the rest of us, you have to take their word for it? Ackman and Adelson don’t speak for me. (I have no idea who the other person is, but they don’t either.) Ackman is a clown who very clearly knows very little about actual Judaism.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:American Jews are no more or less responsible for the actions of Israel than Muslim Americans are responsible for the actions of Hamas or Iran. But that goes both ways: you cannot state that Muslim Americans who stay silent on ME issues are effectively agreeing with those actions while arguing that it is antisemitic to assume American Jews who stay silent on Israel support Israel.

I completely agree with this and don’t think anyone who stays silent on Middle East issues is responsible for other people’s conduct. I’ll go beyond that: I don’t even think Muslim Americans who agree with Hamas are responsible for Hamas’s conduct, if all they’re doing is saying they like them. Same with Palestinians in Gaza who don’t do anything to support Hamas but live there. The people who are responsible for the conduct of nations or militias in the Middle East are the leaders of those nations or militias.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:For the record I don’t agree with any of this — not what Israel is doing in Gaza and certainly not what’s happening in Iran. But, I fear how much I and all other American Jews are going to face even more antisemitism and retribution because of today’s actions. And I’m terrified.

Something tells me that you will be fine. Imagine being a Muslim in these United States right now. Now that group will face even more Islamophobia and harassment. It’s not all about you OP.

+1. This was my first thought when I read OP. It’s not all about you and you have the ability to make that clear by articulating you don’t support this. If more American Jews did this, it would impact the conversation.

But Muslims don’t have that luxury.

Muslims could speak up about Hamas and Iran. and it would have exactly the same influence on Islamophobia as speaking up about Gaza does on antisemitism. That is, zero.

We’ve been through this before. groups that are subject to animus have zero responsibility to declare themselves the “Good Ones” in order to be free from prejudice and hate crimes. It doesn’t work, and it’s not fair. This is exactly the same for antisemitism and Islamophobia and we learned this lesson after 9/11.

Muslims could also speak out against Islamic terror, the motivating force behind the ME terror regimes and groups. That would demonstrate that mainstream Muslims in the U.S. are cut from different cloth. But they don't say anything, why?

Should also be Jews responsible for speaking out against the genocide and ethnic cleansing Israel is committing?

That is literally what this thread is trying to do and the response has been “Jews make everything about themselves.” Because of antisemitism. That is a nakedly antisemitic viewpoint.

For some of you posters, breathing is antisemitism.

Please describe, in detail, why you think “Jews make everything about themselves” is not an antisemitic viewpoint. I’ll wait.

Israel attacks Iran. Jews immediately post about fear of antisemitism. They are the aggressor just like the US now but want to play the part of the victim. The person who said they use it as a get out of jail free card is onto the problem. Why don't you wait till something actually happens before you appeal to other's instincts to help you? Already most Americans are overwhelmed with the news that we are brought into this mess and most want out. We are too busy working to get our own government out of the conflict and deal with the people actually suffering physically to deal with your mental anguish. I don't have time for your fake victimhood saying that people are antisemitic because they don't agree with Israel or don't invite you to dinner anymore. Maybe they are being antisemitic but it's an appropriate response to the aggression. There are plenty of other groups that people display negativity towards. Anti-women, anti trans, anti gay, anti-white men, anti-blacks, anti-immigrant, anti-Palestinian. Unless there is an actual real threat to life I don't want to hear about it and am extremely upset we are now involved in yet another war placing the DC area in danger.

The entire point is Jews who have nothing to do with any of this are getting blamed. You do know that Jews already face the majority of hate crimes, right? https://www.marketwatch.com/story/jewish-people-make-up-2-4-of-the-u-s-population-but-are-the-targets-of-about-60-of-hate-crimes-linked-to-religion-says-fbi-director-2dd86906

Nobody buys that, kemosabe.

Just because the ADL pushes false data doesn’t mean anyone is buying it …

Hate crimes are abhorrent anyway, regardless the victim’s identity. But cut the shit that Jewish Americans are the most targeted victim’s of anything.

There’s not a single Jewish American alive who would agree to trade places with a black, Latino or LBGT person for even an hour …

Do you believe it when the FBI says it? Or the Chicago Sun Times? Or are they also controlled by the Joos?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-67281042
https://www.chicagotribune.com/2024/07/15/opinion-anstisemitism-hate-crimes-chicago/

DP, also a Jew; I find these ADL claims sketchy, too, as they lump in anti-Israel incidents with broader antisemitic incidents. And those other reports are almost definitely just citing ADL stats, anyway.

Reading Is Fundamental

The FBI does not rely on the ADL.

Every city keeps its own records. Your refusal to see what is right in front of you is striking.

According to the Chicago PD: "Jewish people were the most frequent targets of hate crimes
(18), followed by African Americans (16), members of the White community, (12), members
of the LGBTQ+ community (8), Asian American and Native Hawaiian/Pacific Islanders (5),
biracial people (5), members of the Arab community (3), and a Catholic (1).6"

https://www.chicago.gov/content/dam/city/depts/cchr/general/2024%20CCHR%20Hate%20Crimes%20and%20Hate%20Incidents%20Report.pdf

More than HALF of all religious hates crimes in the U.S. are against Jews.

Why are you so invested in not seeing the truth? Is it too scary?

No, actually 18 hate crimes in a year in a city the size of Chicago leads me to believe I have basically no reason to fear that I will be the victim of an antisemitic hate crime.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For the record I don’t agree with any of this — not what Israel is doing in Gaza and certainly not what’s happening in Iran. But, I fear how much I and all other American Jews are going to face even more antisemitism and retribution because of today’s actions. And I’m terrified.

Perhaps the other Jews that are not you should just roll over and die so that you don't have to deal with the consequences of them fighting for their lives.

Hamas started a war with Israel and Israel is finally done with trying to fight a war while trying to appease an international community that hates them.
Good for them. Finish it, finish it decisively and move on.
Hamas FAFO.

Iran plays footsie with nuclear weapons development.
We can't let that happen so we will continue to bomb them until they no longer have the ability to do so.
Iran FAFO.

Great, why don’t you make aliyah and enlist if you’re so gung ho to fight Iran?

[Anonymous]

Very Jew I know follows Noa Tishby

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:For the record I don’t agree with any of this — not what Israel is doing in Gaza and certainly not what’s happening in Iran. But, I fear how much I and all other American Jews are going to face even more antisemitism and retribution because of today’s actions. And I’m terrified.

Something tells me that you will be fine. Imagine being a Muslim in these United States right now. Now that group will face even more Islamophobia and harassment. It’s not all about you OP.

+1. This was my first thought when I read OP. It’s not all about you and you have the ability to make that clear by articulating you don’t support this. If more American Jews did this, it would impact the conversation.

But Muslims don’t have that luxury.

Muslims could speak up about Hamas and Iran. and it would have exactly the same influence on Islamophobia as speaking up about Gaza does on antisemitism. That is, zero.

We’ve been through this before. groups that are subject to animus have zero responsibility to declare themselves the “Good Ones” in order to be free from prejudice and hate crimes. It doesn’t work, and it’s not fair. This is exactly the same for antisemitism and Islamophobia and we learned this lesson after 9/11.

Muslims could also speak out against Islamic terror, the motivating force behind the ME terror regimes and groups. That would demonstrate that mainstream Muslims in the U.S. are cut from different cloth. But they don't say anything, why?

Should also be Jews responsible for speaking out against the genocide and ethnic cleansing Israel is committing?

That is literally what this thread is trying to do and the response has been “Jews make everything about themselves.” Because of antisemitism. That is a nakedly antisemitic viewpoint.

For some of you posters, breathing is antisemitism.

Please describe, in detail, why you think “Jews make everything about themselves” is not an antisemitic viewpoint. I’ll wait.

Israel attacks Iran. Jews immediately post about fear of antisemitism. They are the aggressor just like the US now but want to play the part of the victim. The person who said they use it as a get out of jail free card is onto the problem. Why don't you wait till something actually happens before you appeal to other's instincts to help you? Already most Americans are overwhelmed with the news that we are brought into this mess and most want out. We are too busy working to get our own government out of the conflict and deal with the people actually suffering physically to deal with your mental anguish. I don't have time for your fake victimhood saying that people are antisemitic because they don't agree with Israel or don't invite you to dinner anymore. Maybe they are being antisemitic but it's an appropriate response to the aggression. There are plenty of other groups that people display negativity towards. Anti-women, anti trans, anti gay, anti-white men, anti-blacks, anti-immigrant, anti-Palestinian. Unless there is an actual real threat to life I don't want to hear about it and am extremely upset we are now involved in yet another war placing the DC area in danger.

The entire point is Jews who have nothing to do with any of this are getting blamed. You do know that Jews already face the majority of hate crimes, right? https://www.marketwatch.com/story/jewish-people-make-up-2-4-of-the-u-s-population-but-are-the-targets-of-about-60-of-hate-crimes-linked-to-religion-says-fbi-director-2dd86906

Nobody buys that, kemosabe.

Just because the ADL pushes false data doesn’t mean anyone is buying it …

Hate crimes are abhorrent anyway, regardless the victim’s identity. But cut the shit that Jewish Americans are the most targeted victim’s of anything.

There’s not a single Jewish American alive who would agree to trade places with a black, Latino or LBGT person for even an hour …

Do you believe it when the FBI says it? Or the Chicago Sun Times? Or are they also controlled by the Joos?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-67281042
https://www.chicagotribune.com/2024/07/15/opinion-anstisemitism-hate-crimes-chicago/

DP, also a Jew; I find these ADL claims sketchy, too, as they lump in anti-Israel incidents with broader antisemitic incidents. And those other reports are almost definitely just citing ADL stats, anyway.

Reading Is Fundamental

The FBI does not rely on the ADL.

Every city keeps its own records. Your refusal to see what is right in front of you is striking.

According to the Chicago PD: "Jewish people were the most frequent targets of hate crimes
(18), followed by African Americans (16), members of the White community, (12), members
of the LGBTQ+ community (8), Asian American and Native Hawaiian/Pacific Islanders (5),
biracial people (5), members of the Arab community (3), and a Catholic (1).6"

https://www.chicago.gov/content/dam/city/depts/cchr/general/2024%20CCHR%20Hate%20Crimes%20and%20Hate%20Incidents%20Report.pdf

More than HALF of all religious hates crimes in the U.S. are against Jews.

Why are you so invested in not seeing the truth? Is it too scary?

We'd need to see what counts as hate crime against the Jewish people. Something tells me that criticizing the government of, say, Saudi Arabia, doesn't count as hate crime.

Does something like this qualify?

https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/manhattan-man-sentenced-27-months-prison-conspiracy-transport-firearm-interstate

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For the record I don’t agree with any of this — not what Israel is doing in Gaza and certainly not what’s happening in Iran. But, I fear how much I and all other American Jews are going to face even more antisemitism and retribution because of today’s actions. And I’m terrified.

Well, at least you don’t have to worry that a bomb can drop any time and kill your entire family or that your child will be shot in the head as a target.

So count your blessings.

NP. I agree with this sentiment. I am done with centering the theoretical fears of Jewish Americans with safe lives, over the reality lived by people in the Middle East of the support given to Israel and American policy over my entire life. It’s also a real lie IMO to pretend that the average American Jew anywhere in this country has objective reason for fear of being targeted in comparison to any Muslim here.

Two Jewish people were shot by an antisemite in DC last month. A group of Jews were firebombed in Colorado. A suspicious man with a knife shouted antisemitic slurs outside of a DC area Jewish school. My own congregation in DC had someone should antisemitic slurs outside recently.

Since when is it OK to tell people they shouldn’t talk about the bias & hate crimes they face? Your absurd progressive verbiage about “centering” and “lived experience” aside. i

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:American Jews are no more or less responsible for the actions of Israel than Muslim Americans are responsible for the actions of Hamas or Iran. But that goes both ways: you cannot state that Muslim Americans who stay silent on ME issues are effectively agreeing with those actions while arguing that it is antisemitic to assume American Jews who stay silent on Israel support Israel.

I completely agree with this and don’t think anyone who stays silent on Middle East issues is responsible for other people’s conduct. I’ll go beyond that: I don’t even think Muslim Americans who agree with Hamas are responsible for Hamas’s conduct, if all they’re doing is saying they like them. Same with Palestinians in Gaza who don’t do anything to support Hamas but live there. The people who are responsible for the conduct of nations or militias in the Middle East are the leaders of those nations or militias.

+1.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jewish people always make everything about them

It stems from the whole framing of any event thru the lens of “is it good/bad for the Jews”

https://archive.nytimes.com/opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/03/04/is-it-good-for-the-jews/

Normally I flag this stuff but leaving it up for proof that DCUM is chock full of antisemites

Did you read the piece before crying antisemitism. NYT isn’t exactly an anti-Semitic hotbed. I thought it was interesting and actually very relevant.

What about posting this piece proves DCUM is anti-Semitic? Or is that just your reflexive reaction? And if so, isn’t that a problem?

This is what the article actually says:

“is always capable of regaining its full and deadly form even when it is apparently dormant or weakened. All it needs is a pretext, and any pretext will do. If the Israeli-Palestinian conflict didn’t exist, it would attach itself to something else; but it does exist, and anti-Semitism couldn’t be happier.”

and this is what you said

“Jews always make everything about themselves”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:American Jews are no more or less responsible for the actions of Israel than Muslim Americans are responsible for the actions of Hamas or Iran. But that goes both ways: you cannot state that Muslim Americans who stay silent on ME issues are effectively agreeing with those actions while arguing that it is antisemitic to assume American Jews who stay silent on Israel support Israel.

I completely agree with this and don’t think anyone who stays silent on Middle East issues is responsible for other people’s conduct. I’ll go beyond that: I don’t even think Muslim Americans who agree with Hamas are responsible for Hamas’s conduct, if all they’re doing is saying they like them. Same with Palestinians in Gaza who don’t do anything to support Hamas but live there. The people who are responsible for the conduct of nations or militias in the Middle East are the leaders of those nations or militias.

While you're at it, Americans are not responsible for Israel's genocide despite the fact that the government arms and supports Israel.

[Anonymous]

the new US war frustrates Americans because many thought Trump was going to be the America first isolationist president who ends the wars in Ukraine and returns all the hostages back and finds some solution to the Israel Gaza war. Instead, we are now embroiled in new conflict with Iran and it doesn’t even seem like Trump had a choice. He was dragged in by Bibi

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Terror, there's real terror in the hearts of the Iranian people now. I feel for them right now. I cannot begin to imagine the fear that Gazans live with each day.

Not just Gazans but also the Israeli hostages currently Gazan citizens and Jewish Iranians currently Iranian citizens especially in Tehran. They face double trauma: captured by Hamas, facing bombings by Israel in the case of the hostages and possible suspicion or retribution by the Iranian government on the case of Iranian Jews.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: the new US war frustrates Americans because many thought Trump was going to be the America first isolationist president who ends the wars in Ukraine and returns all the hostages back and finds some solution to the Israel Gaza war. Instead, we are now embroiled in new conflict with Iran and it doesn’t even seem like Trump had a choice. He was dragged in by Bibi

Anyone who thinks the above is a dumbsh*t.

also this thread is about antisemitism so what is your point exactly