Maybe it would be a good thing if Trump limited international students at t100 schools?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wouldn't it be a good thing if the top US schools educated and prepared more US students? Is what's happening at harvard a blessing in disguise?

Maybe the government should limit the number of international students at all top schools. Getting in and the cost of attending is just too much.

International students are a major source of funding. They are almost all full pay (sometimes at higher rates than Americans) so they subsidize financial aid as well as their programs of study.

If the government were paying for universities - as it could and arguably should, so that everyone could have a low-cost or free education - then maybe we could talk about it. But as it is, limiting international students would just reduce what the university can afford to do for Americans.

NP. At top universities - at least top 20, top 50, there are enough domestic full pay applicants to make up that funding.

Enough domestic full pay applicants without the university meaningfully lowering their admissions standards? Or are you just saying that if you let in anybody who can pay, you will find enough people who want to go?

I'm sure there's a lot of variation in how admissions are done, but the schools I'm familiar with have a separate application for international students. Domestic students are not truly competing with the international pool for the same spots.

There are 100,000 high schools in the U.S. which means that there are 500,000 kids who graduate in the top 5 of their class. Surely there are enough full pay kids in the U.S. who also meet academic standards.

+1. My high stats full pay kid will be attending a T70 while kids from other countries with lower stats are being paid to attend top US colleges. There are plenty of full pay families in the US with academically qualified kids. Of course, there are a number of reasons top colleges choose to pay for international students to attend - clearly that has value to the college - but academic qualifications are not the reason.

The bolded may be the case, but not at schools more highly ranked then where your kid is going. I challenge you to show where kids with lower stats is "being paid" to attend a better school, unless you are talking about an athlete.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wouldn't it be a good thing if the top US schools educated and prepared more US students? Is what's happening at harvard a blessing in disguise?

Maybe the government should limit the number of international students at all top schools. Getting in and the cost of attending is just too much.

Agree 100 percent. We are sending billions in taxpayer dollars to these schools. That our money. The least they can do is educate our kids instead of future jihadists.

+1 These schools get $$$ in grants and tax breaks - that's taxpayer money so no they can't just do whatever they want and keep it.

It's crazy that some people here think we should continue to ignore our national security and open our doors in ways that these nations that are enemies of our country (where many of these int'l students are from) would NEVER do. We've already been quietly invaded.

They are grants to do work/research in areas of critical importance, mostly medical, some STEM. But MAGA would simply rather not have research into cancer or Alzheimers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wouldn't it be a good thing if the top US schools educated and prepared more US students? Is what's happening at harvard a blessing in disguise?

Maybe the government should limit the number of international students at all top schools. Getting in and the cost of attending is just too much.

International students are a major source of funding. They are almost all full pay (sometimes at higher rates than Americans) so they subsidize financial aid as well as their programs of study.

If the government were paying for universities - as it could and arguably should, so that everyone could have a low-cost or free education - then maybe we could talk about it. But as it is, limiting international students would just reduce what the university can afford to do for Americans.

NP. At top universities - at least top 20, top 50, there are enough domestic full pay applicants to make up that funding.

Enough domestic full pay applicants without the university meaningfully lowering their admissions standards? Or are you just saying that if you let in anybody who can pay, you will find enough people who want to go?

I'm sure there's a lot of variation in how admissions are done, but the schools I'm familiar with have a separate application for international students. Domestic students are not truly competing with the international pool for the same spots.

There are 100,000 high schools in the U.S. which means that there are 500,000 kids who graduate in the top 5 of their class. Surely there are enough full pay kids in the U.S. who also meet academic standards.

About 27,000 High Schools but we get your point and the answer is yes, there are.

Why do you think it should be Harvard's priority to educate US residents? We have many, many government universities to support our government needs. Harvard is a private institution. Why do you think it is obligated to serve our national interest? Do you expect Walmart to do the same? Is your employer required to prioritize US residents? And as for Harvard receiving federal grants, the US government does not invest in research out of the goodness of its heart, it does so because it is viewed as being in the national interest. Is some of it wasted? Is some of it used for projects I personally would not support? Yes of course, like pretty much all other areas of government investment and spending, so work to tighten that up. And maybe US government universities can learn from Harvard if spots at the school are viewed as so coveted.

It is very sad that you are questioning why a US based institution and employers should prioritize US citizens.
The first question I was asked when I sought a work visa abroad years and years ago was - Why should you be hired over a native citizen?
I really had no good answer because I knew my fancy degree didn't mean I was any better skilled than the locals.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wouldn't it be a good thing if the top US schools educated and prepared more US students? Is what's happening at harvard a blessing in disguise?

Maybe the government should limit the number of international students at all top schools. Getting in and the cost of attending is just too much.

Something has to give. In the 2023/24 academic year, the United States hosted a record high of 1,126,690 international students, accounting for approximately 7% of the total U.S. higher education enrollment. No wonder so many qualified domestic kids can’t get in.

The overwheming majority of those students are at schools you never heard of. In sports terms, they are at NAIA and D2 schools, only a handful are at the T100 type elite schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wouldn't it be a good thing if the top US schools educated and prepared more US students? Is what's happening at harvard a blessing in disguise?

Maybe the government should limit the number of international students at all top schools. Getting in and the cost of attending is just too much.

International students are a major source of funding. They are almost all full pay (sometimes at higher rates than Americans) so they subsidize financial aid as well as their programs of study.

If the government were paying for universities - as it could and arguably should, so that everyone could have a low-cost or free education - then maybe we could talk about it. But as it is, limiting international students would just reduce what the university can afford to do for Americans.

NP. At top universities - at least top 20, top 50, there are enough domestic full pay applicants to make up that funding.

Enough domestic full pay applicants without the university meaningfully lowering their admissions standards? Or are you just saying that if you let in anybody who can pay, you will find enough people who want to go?

I'm sure there's a lot of variation in how admissions are done, but the schools I'm familiar with have a separate application for international students. Domestic students are not truly competing with the international pool for the same spots.

There are 100,000 high schools in the U.S. which means that there are 500,000 kids who graduate in the top 5 of their class. Surely there are enough full pay kids in the U.S. who also meet academic standards.

About 27,000 High Schools but we get your point and the answer is yes, there are.

Why do you think it should be Harvard's priority to educate US residents? We have many, many government universities to support our government needs. Harvard is a private institution. Why do you think it is obligated to serve our national interest? Do you expect Walmart to do the same? Is your employer required to prioritize US residents? And as for Harvard receiving federal grants, the US government does not invest in research out of the goodness of its heart, it does so because it is viewed as being in the national interest. Is some of it wasted? Is some of it used for projects I personally would not support? Yes of course, like pretty much all other areas of government investment and spending, so work to tighten that up. And maybe US government universities can learn from Harvard if spots at the school are viewed as so coveted.

What on earth is a government university? You are not from here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wouldn't it be a good thing if the top US schools educated and prepared more US students? Is what's happening at harvard a blessing in disguise?

Maybe the government should limit the number of international students at all top schools. Getting in and the cost of attending is just too much.

1) no, school should admit who they want to create the culture and fill the program as their board mandates
2) there should not be any role for government in college admission decisions, none.

Really?

So colleges should be allowed to discriminate on the basis of race or religion in admissions?

And the government should fund research at Bob Jones U, for example, even if it bans interracial dating?

The government clearly should intervene in college admissions where there’s a compelling reason to do so.

The question is whether the admission of ever greater numbers of international students constitutes a compelling reason for intervention.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wouldn't it be a good thing if the top US schools educated and prepared more US students? Is what's happening at harvard a blessing in disguise?

Maybe the government should limit the number of international students at all top schools. Getting in and the cost of attending is just too much.

Yes. Yes it would

Huh? If you reconfigure Harvard, it's not Harvard anymore. So what is the point? Why would you want to go there anymore?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wouldn't it be a good thing if the top US schools educated and prepared more US students? Is what's happening at harvard a blessing in disguise?

Maybe the government should limit the number of international students at all top schools. Getting in and the cost of attending is just too much.

1) no, school should admit who they want to create the culture and fill the program as their board mandates
2) there should not be any role for government in college admission decisions, none.

Really?

So colleges should be allowed to discriminate on the basis of race or religion in admissions?

And the government should fund research at Bob Jones U, for example, even if it bans interracial dating?

The government clearly should intervene in college admissions where there’s a compelling reason to do so.

The question is whether the admission of ever greater numbers of international students constitutes a compelling reason for intervention.

NP. To be clear, the government is not intervening in admissions. It is intervening in who gets a visa.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wouldn't it be a good thing if the top US schools educated and prepared more US students? Is what's happening at harvard a blessing in disguise?

Maybe the government should limit the number of international students at all top schools. Getting in and the cost of attending is just too much.

1) no, school should admit who they want to create the culture and fill the program as their board mandates
2) there should not be any role for government in college admission decisions, none.

Really?

So colleges should be allowed to discriminate on the basis of race or religion in admissions? this would be in violation of the civil rights act, so no

And the government should fund research at Bob Jones U, for example, even if it bans interracial dating? if the government had a need for social reseach about dating and bob jones researchers had the best grant proposal, then sure, albeit not likely

The government clearly should intervene in college admissions where there’s a compelling reason to do so. like discrimination on the basis of race, but generally speaking, if the composition of an incoming class generally is representative of the American demographic landscape, than proving such would be very difficult

The question is whether the admission of ever greater numbers of international students constitutes a compelling reason for intervention. only in your opinion. Most people who understand higher education disagree

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Whatever happened to Republicans who wanted minimal government intrusion in their lives?

Right? It got taken over by populist.

Funny though if a dem wants to regulate a company maga cries socialism but a cult leader wanting to tell private organizations what it can and can't do is just good for the US and maga.

-former R

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wouldn't it be a good thing if the top US schools educated and prepared more US students? Is what's happening at harvard a blessing in disguise?

Maybe the government should limit the number of international students at all top schools. Getting in and the cost of attending is just too much.

1) no, school should admit who they want to create the culture and fill the program as their board mandates
2) there should not be any role for government in college admission decisions, none.

Really?

So colleges should be allowed to discriminate on the basis of race or religion in admissions?

And the government should fund research at Bob Jones U, for example, even if it bans interracial dating?

The government clearly should intervene in college admissions where there’s a compelling reason to do so.

The question is whether the admission of ever greater numbers of international students constitutes a compelling reason for intervention.

NP. To be clear, the government is not intervening in admissions. It is intervening in who gets a visa.

And they are discriminating against certain private organizations and countries for that matter.

We have Afghanees who helped the US being denied refugee status even though we all know they will be killed if they stay in Afghanistan. Buy white south Africans are welcome with open arms cutting the line of several hundreds of people waiting for resettlement.

[Anonymous]

A lot of people don't understand the concept of soft power. We end up having heads of state of other countries who were educated at Harvard, that helps the US. Same thing with Aid, we pay that money and buy goodwill to the US.

Trump is speed running the US's influence into the ground and China is running to pick up the pieces.

Basically, Trump is handing global influence to China.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wouldn't it be a good thing if the top US schools educated and prepared more US students? Is what's happening at harvard a blessing in disguise?

Maybe the government should limit the number of international students at all top schools. Getting in and the cost of attending is just too much.

1) no, school should admit who they want to create the culture and fill the program as their board mandates
2) there should not be any role for government in college admission decisions, none.

Really?

So colleges should be allowed to discriminate on the basis of race or religion in admissions? this would be in violation of the civil rights act, so no

And the government should fund research at Bob Jones U, for example, even if it bans interracial dating? if the government had a need for social reseach about dating and bob jones researchers had the best grant proposal, then sure, albeit not likely

The government clearly should intervene in college admissions where there’s a compelling reason to do so. like discrimination on the basis of race, but generally speaking, if the composition of an incoming class generally is representative of the American demographic landscape, than proving such would be very difficult

The question is whether the admission of ever greater numbers of international students constitutes a compelling reason for intervention. only in your opinion. Most people who understand higher education disagree

K. So you now agree that government should play a role in admissions, at least in civil rights cases (though bizarrely, you’re willing to allow government funds to subsidize colleges like Bob Jones, which had overtly racist policies).

I assume you’d also agree that the government has the right to restrict admission (via student visas) where national security requires. For example, MIT could be precluded from admitting North Korean students in certain sensitive fields, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wouldn't it be a good thing if the top US schools educated and prepared more US students? Is what's happening at harvard a blessing in disguise?

Maybe the government should limit the number of international students at all top schools. Getting in and the cost of attending is just too much.

International students are a major source of funding. They are almost all full pay (sometimes at higher rates than Americans) so they subsidize financial aid as well as their programs of study.

If the government were paying for universities - as it could and arguably should, so that everyone could have a low-cost or free education - then maybe we could talk about it. But as it is, limiting international students would just reduce what the university can afford to do for Americans.

NP. At top universities - at least top 20, top 50, there are enough domestic full pay applicants to make up that funding.

But beyond their parent's networth, are they all qualified?

Who determines who is qualified? Shouldn't that be left to the universities?

Fwiw my kid had a 1580 sat 4.0 unwgpa 4.92 wgpa from a magnet program, and they got rejected from t15 for cs. It was a huge ego hit but I understand why they didn't get in. They didn't have a compelling personal story or interest. They even said they aren't the type to start a business or have the great ideas. Those types of people are the qualities colleges are looking for.

Im more annoyed at these colleges using legacies in admissions than letting in foreign students, many of whom do have great ideas. They start companies here, create patents, and some go on to create companies and jobs. It’s naive to think that if only that spot went to an American student then that student would also have great ideas, create patents and jobs. That's not to say Americans don't do that but that simply swapping out the foreign student with an American one would create equal outcomes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wouldn't it be a good thing if the top US schools educated and prepared more US students? Is what's happening at harvard a blessing in disguise?

Maybe the government should limit the number of international students at all top schools. Getting in and the cost of attending is just too much.

Yes. Yes it would

Huh? If you reconfigure Harvard, it's not Harvard anymore. So what is the point? Why would you want to go there anymore?

+100

By all means let’s just dumb it down. FFS

The same people that deride “everyone gets a trophy” want their kids to get a trophy