Need advice from moms who work long hours at very demanding jobs

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There’s so many factors here. If OP is really only earning $250 k for those hours and her husband is earning similar for also long hours that I would really question how they are affording the help they need, after taxes etc. my husband works crappy hours like that but earns a lot more and honestly the only reason we are ok is because I leaned out. If you are a doctor or doing something really meaningful and those hours are really necessary you can try to make your life work around them by hiring help etc. I would not be ok with that little time with my kids long term but more than that I have trouble being the kind of parent I want to be when I’m on 100 percent of every waking hour and working multiple hours every night to catch up. YMMV.

If you are really doing this for the money I would follow the suggestions to push back hard on meetings and set some really firm boundaries about making it to school event that you care about and getting to your kids games and stuff. Not PTA meetings and obligations but stuff you actually care about.

I can't imagine OP is the $250k poster. No one would work those crazy hours for that salary. Also this is basically the income (x2 salaries) of most of my social circle and no one can afford that much help (2 FT employees).

What I don't get is how she has 2 full-time employees, and neither of them are making dinner. I had "only" a nanny when my kids were young and she still found time to cook 2x a week at least.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I actually read lean in and the whole point is to lean in BEFORE your kids are born so that you are powerfully enough to have flexibility when they are actually here. It’s not “leaning out” to exercise workplace flexibility as a mom—it’s taking advantage of the fruits of leaning in.

Marissa Mayer had a nursery built in her office at Yahoo when she had her twins.

And then she rescinded telework for all her employees.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There’s so many factors here. If OP is really only earning $250 k for those hours and her husband is earning similar for also long hours that I would really question how they are affording the help they need, after taxes etc. my husband works crappy hours like that but earns a lot more and honestly the only reason we are ok is because I leaned out. If you are a doctor or doing something really meaningful and those hours are really necessary you can try to make your life work around them by hiring help etc. I would not be ok with that little time with my kids long term but more than that I have trouble being the kind of parent I want to be when I’m on 100 percent of every waking hour and working multiple hours every night to catch up. YMMV.

If you are really doing this for the money I would follow the suggestions to push back hard on meetings and set some really firm boundaries about making it to school event that you care about and getting to your kids games and stuff. Not PTA meetings and obligations but stuff you actually care about.

I can't imagine OP is the $250k poster. No one would work those crazy hours for that salary. Also this is basically the income (x2 salaries) of most of my social circle and no one can afford that much help (2 FT employees).

My neighbor was a political appointee during the Obama administration and they didn’t have family money so she would have been one of those people. But it was a temporary phase.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There’s so many factors here. If OP is really only earning $250 k for those hours and her husband is earning similar for also long hours that I would really question how they are affording the help they need, after taxes etc. my husband works crappy hours like that but earns a lot more and honestly the only reason we are ok is because I leaned out. If you are a doctor or doing something really meaningful and those hours are really necessary you can try to make your life work around them by hiring help etc. I would not be ok with that little time with my kids long term but more than that I have trouble being the kind of parent I want to be when I’m on 100 percent of every waking hour and working multiple hours every night to catch up. YMMV.

If you are really doing this for the money I would follow the suggestions to push back hard on meetings and set some really firm boundaries about making it to school event that you care about and getting to your kids games and stuff. Not PTA meetings and obligations but stuff you actually care about.

I can't imagine OP is the $250k poster. No one would work those crazy hours for that salary. Also this is basically the income (x2 salaries) of most of my social circle and no one can afford that much help (2 FT employees).

My neighbor was a political appointee during the Obama administration and they didn’t have family money so she would have been one of those people. But it was a temporary phase.

I am the earlier PP and yes I agree politicals, high level ppl at NGOs etc could work those long hrs without a high salary but OP description of the promotion coming with more $$$ did not read to me like those situations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know families like this. The kids love their nannies and sometimes call them "mom".

This is odd. My mom worked a lot when we were growing up. We never thought a nanny was our mom. We knew who our mom was. Even little kids know the difference between a parent and a nanny.

My husband says he knew his mom was in charge, but he loved the nanny more and was more attached to her. Hearing him say that has ensured that we will never have a nanny!

+1 When I had a nanny, my kids cried when she left for the day. On one hand, it made me glad how much they liked (loved her). OTOH, it broke my heart how much they liked/loved her. Little kids get attached to people they spend the most time with.

I told DH we needed to make some changes, that I could not handle trying to give 100% to the kids, our marriage and work. Our marriage was also not in a great place.

So, we moved to a cheaper house so I could pull back from work and be home with the kids, and I'm not a sahm type. It was boring, but we were all generally much happier.

My kids are now in HS/college, and I'm back to work, albeit in a diminished role.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Been there, done that - I quit. My kids had to come first. Time means more than money.

+1. You really can’t have it all. Even with outsourcing meals, or driving etc you still can’t physically be present in your kids lives then what good is all that money? We fool ourselves thinking we are doing all this work for our kids but in reality kids only need your attention and love.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm another mom with a "big job" who is leaning in and has a spouse with a similar job. Most of my colleagues are the same. I don't see kids who suffer. Instead I see kids thriving and having great relationships with their parents.

Just because it happened to you doesn't mean that all working moms are damaging their kids. And characterizing your mom as 'career obsessed' frankly sounds really misogynistic.

Let's all be real for people though: you don't see the damage until you see the damage. It really depends on the kid.

Yes, that's possible. I'm this mom that you're quoting, and I had my kids later in life so they're still young. Many of my colleagues had their kids earlier and they are now in college or headed there soon - that gives me a view into the future and I'm telling you that they are not damaged the say you're describing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I actually read lean in and the whole point is to lean in BEFORE your kids are born so that you are powerfully enough to have flexibility when they are actually here. It’s not “leaning out” to exercise workplace flexibility as a mom—it’s taking advantage of the fruits of leaning in.

Marissa Mayer had a nursery built in her office at Yahoo when she had her twins.

And then she rescinded telework for all her employees.

i really felt that whole book and time in the 2010s was really unfair to women.

like holding up marissa mayer and sheryl sandberg as these "ideal working parent" types was really detrimental to my mental well being at the time. what marissa and sheryl dont tell you is the amount of money it took for them to be supported in "doing it all." and i didnt get that as a 25 year old woman starting out in my career. i held them up as the example of what i needed to be, not taking into account that the three of us are not playing the game on the same field or with the same equipment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was recently promoted to a senior management (but not c suite) role at my company after being in middle management for years. I have always worked hard (50+ hours per week) but had a pretty good work life balance and a flexible boss who never had an issue when I needed to prioritize kid stuff since he knew I would get my work done and be there when it counted.

It has only been 3 months in my new role but I am feeling pretty miserable and overwhelmed because it feels all consuming and my work/life balance has plummeted. Face time is a requirement in this role so I can’t really work from home more than once per week and I now need to be at the office by 8am for early meetings (vs 9am on my old team) so I am out the door by 7:15 and rarely get home before 7pm. Then I am with my kids for an hour and a half before I get back online for a couple hours before going to bed.

I feel like I am barely spending any time with my kids and so much is falling through the cracks because my job is so intense I often don’t have 5 mins to make a phone call or check my personal email during the day. I forgot to sign one of my kids up for an after school activity in time and the class all her friends are in filled up, I didn’t clearly read the school supply list for my oldest and forgot a ton of things. I am going to miss back to school nights due to work commitments and have zero bandwidth to be involved in the PTA or school like I have been in the past. I can no longer cook dinner for the kids (or eat with them) and feel like we are all not eating as healthy. And I have absolutely zero time to myself since I feel so guilty for being MIA all week I try to spend every second with them on weekends.

I could quit, but the challenge is that I actually enjoy what I do and got a big raise so the money is very helpful with 3 kids. My DH has a pretty big job too and works almost as much as I do, and we have an amazing nanny who handles a ton while the kids are in school (grocery shopping, returns, dry cleaning) as well as a housekeeper who keeps things in order.

Is anyone else in this boat? How do you get over the guilt of not being around enough? And how do you decide if it’s all worth it?

Has anyone left a demanding job - do you wish you did it sooner or feel like it was a mistake?

While I agree with most of the feedback here, there is definitely selection bias. If you're leaning in at your big important job, you probably don't have time to be browsing and commenting on DCUM.... This is the difference between me (leaned out) and a good friend (still chasing the next big promotion): she would never be wasting time on DCUM like I am! She manages ok with a very hands-on husband, a nanny and a full-time housekeeper, and two kids. She does vent to me from time to time about the guilt of missing out on time with her kids. For reference, she is in the C-suite of a mid-sized tech company.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I actually read lean in and the whole point is to lean in BEFORE your kids are born so that you are powerfully enough to have flexibility when they are actually here. It’s not “leaning out” to exercise workplace flexibility as a mom—it’s taking advantage of the fruits of leaning in.

A
Marissa Mayer had a nursery built in her office at Yahoo when she had her twins.

And then she rescinded telework for all her employees.

i really felt that whole book and time in the 2010s was really unfair to women.

like holding up marissa mayer and sheryl sandberg as these "ideal working parent" types was really detrimental to my mental well being at the time. what marissa and sheryl dont tell you is the amount of money it took for them to be supported in "doing it all." and i didnt get that as a 25 year old woman starting out in my career. i held them up as the example of what i needed to be, not taking into account that the three of us are not playing the game on the same field or with the same equipment.

Amen!

[Anonymous]

Read this book or take his class on coursera

https://www.amazon.com/Total-Leadership-Better-Leader-Richer/dp/1422103285


You do NOT need to leave at 7am and return home at 7pm 5 days a week to be successful.

2 days yes, 5 no.


Think. What can u do better? People talk about getting help at home but are you delegating low level work to others? You are not.

Delegate

Work before the kids wake and do morning routine a few days a week.

Get home early 2 days a week and work after their bedtime, not every day.

You can do this if you are more strategic.

[Anonymous]

Some PP have hinted at it, but I think a key fact is OPs age. It’s one of the things we can delude ourselves about - that’s we will never get old and tired. But there’s a big difference for me between mid 30s and mid 40s. OP strikes me as somewhat young for her professional role and that she’s relying on maintaining the physical energy that she previously had. Take it from the older folks, you can’t keep going on sheer force and you need to navigate to sustainable roles before you get old and tired or it will be painful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I was recently promoted to a senior management (but not c suite) role at my company after being in middle management for years. I have always worked hard (50+ hours per week) but had a pretty good work life balance and a flexible boss who never had an issue when I needed to prioritize kid stuff since he knew I would get my work done and be there when it counted.

It has only been 3 months in my new role but I am feeling pretty miserable and overwhelmed because it feels all consuming and my work/life balance has plummeted. Face time is a requirement in this role so I can’t really work from home more than once per week and I now need to be at the office by 8am for early meetings (vs 9am on my old team) so I am out the door by 7:15 and rarely get home before 7pm. Then I am with my kids for an hour and a half before I get back online for a couple hours before going to bed.

I feel like I am barely spending any time with my kids and so much is falling through the cracks because my job is so intense I often don’t have 5 mins to make a phone call or check my personal email during the day. I forgot to sign one of my kids up for an after school activity in time and the class all her friends are in filled up, I didn’t clearly read the school supply list for my oldest and forgot a ton of things. I am going to miss back to school nights due to work commitments and have zero bandwidth to be involved in the PTA or school like I have been in the past. I can no longer cook dinner for the kids (or eat with them) and feel like we are all not eating as healthy. And I have absolutely zero time to myself since I feel so guilty for being MIA all week I try to spend every second with them on weekends.

I could quit, but the challenge is that I actually enjoy what I do and got a big raise so the money is very helpful with 3 kids. My DH has a pretty big job too and works almost as much as I do, and we have an amazing nanny who handles a ton while the kids are in school (grocery shopping, returns, dry cleaning) as well as a housekeeper who keeps things in order.

Is anyone else in this boat? How do you get over the guilt of not being around enough? And how do you decide if it’s all worth it?

Has anyone left a demanding job - do you wish you did it sooner or feel like it was a mistake?

To OP, I'm the other gender but have been there during early pre-school years for a multiple-year stretch (DW works as well). Some of what you describe is just learning a new role, and feeling secure in it. I eventually got better at planning/managing/delegating (as others suggest) and also just got comfortable in the role without needing to push for more or prove myself. I work much less now, spend multiple hours with kids per night, spend most of every weekend with family, take true vacations, and live a mostly healthy lifestyle -- all in the same job, same pay, etc. Do you think you can get to that point? If so, the job may be worth grinning and bearing it until you can get to that point. If not, your situation does not sound sustainable (to me). And the fact that you are reaching out for advice in this way suggests you already feel the same (again, unless you feel that the future may be different).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was recently promoted to a senior management (but not c suite) role at my company after being in middle management for years. I have always worked hard (50+ hours per week) but had a pretty good work life balance and a flexible boss who never had an issue when I needed to prioritize kid stuff since he knew I would get my work done and be there when it counted.

It has only been 3 months in my new role but I am feeling pretty miserable and overwhelmed because it feels all consuming and my work/life balance has plummeted. Face time is a requirement in this role so I can’t really work from home more than once per week and I now need to be at the office by 8am for early meetings (vs 9am on my old team) so I am out the door by 7:15 and rarely get home before 7pm. Then I am with my kids for an hour and a half before I get back online for a couple hours before going to bed.

I feel like I am barely spending any time with my kids and so much is falling through the cracks because my job is so intense I often don’t have 5 mins to make a phone call or check my personal email during the day. I forgot to sign one of my kids up for an after school activity in time and the class all her friends are in filled up, I didn’t clearly read the school supply list for my oldest and forgot a ton of things. I am going to miss back to school nights due to work commitments and have zero bandwidth to be involved in the PTA or school like I have been in the past. I can no longer cook dinner for the kids (or eat with them) and feel like we are all not eating as healthy. And I have absolutely zero time to myself since I feel so guilty for being MIA all week I try to spend every second with them on weekends.

I could quit, but the challenge is that I actually enjoy what I do and got a big raise so the money is very helpful with 3 kids. My DH has a pretty big job too and works almost as much as I do, and we have an amazing nanny who handles a ton while the kids are in school (grocery shopping, returns, dry cleaning) as well as a housekeeper who keeps things in order.

Is anyone else in this boat? How do you get over the guilt of not being around enough? And how do you decide if it’s all worth it?

Has anyone left a demanding job - do you wish you did it sooner or feel like it was a mistake?

While I agree with most of the feedback here, there is definitely selection bias. If you're leaning in at your big important job, you probably don't have time to be browsing and commenting on DCUM.... This is the difference between me (leaned out) and a good friend (still chasing the next big promotion): she would never be wasting time on DCUM like I am! She manages ok with a very hands-on husband, a nanny and a full-time housekeeper, and two kids. She does vent to me from time to time about the guilt of missing out on time with her kids. For reference, she is in the C-suite of a mid-sized tech company.

Everyone is on their phones all the time. You really think that just because someone has a big job they stop mindlessly scrolling through something on their phone?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was recently promoted to a senior management (but not c suite) role at my company after being in middle management for years. I have always worked hard (50+ hours per week) but had a pretty good work life balance and a flexible boss who never had an issue when I needed to prioritize kid stuff since he knew I would get my work done and be there when it counted.

It has only been 3 months in my new role but I am feeling pretty miserable and overwhelmed because it feels all consuming and my work/life balance has plummeted. Face time is a requirement in this role so I can’t really work from home more than once per week and I now need to be at the office by 8am for early meetings (vs 9am on my old team) so I am out the door by 7:15 and rarely get home before 7pm. Then I am with my kids for an hour and a half before I get back online for a couple hours before going to bed.

I feel like I am barely spending any time with my kids and so much is falling through the cracks because my job is so intense I often don’t have 5 mins to make a phone call or check my personal email during the day. I forgot to sign one of my kids up for an after school activity in time and the class all her friends are in filled up, I didn’t clearly read the school supply list for my oldest and forgot a ton of things. I am going to miss back to school nights due to work commitments and have zero bandwidth to be involved in the PTA or school like I have been in the past. I can no longer cook dinner for the kids (or eat with them) and feel like we are all not eating as healthy. And I have absolutely zero time to myself since I feel so guilty for being MIA all week I try to spend every second with them on weekends.

I could quit, but the challenge is that I actually enjoy what I do and got a big raise so the money is very helpful with 3 kids. My DH has a pretty big job too and works almost as much as I do, and we have an amazing nanny who handles a ton while the kids are in school (grocery shopping, returns, dry cleaning) as well as a housekeeper who keeps things in order.

Is anyone else in this boat? How do you get over the guilt of not being around enough? And how do you decide if it’s all worth it?

Has anyone left a demanding job - do you wish you did it sooner or feel like it was a mistake?

While I agree with most of the feedback here, there is definitely selection bias. If you're leaning in at your big important job, you probably don't have time to be browsing and commenting on DCUM.... This is the difference between me (leaned out) and a good friend (still chasing the next big promotion): she would never be wasting time on DCUM like I am! She manages ok with a very hands-on husband, a nanny and a full-time housekeeper, and two kids. She does vent to me from time to time about the guilt of missing out on time with her kids. For reference, she is in the C-suite of a mid-sized tech company.

Everyone is on their phones all the time. You really think that just because someone has a big job they stop mindlessly scrolling through something on their phone?

+1 Go to any park in the DMV area with toddlers. Every woman takes time to use their phone. A few months ago I was at the park, and a toddler face planted off a climbing structure and started to shriek. It took a few minutes to find the mom and get her attention because she was engrossed in her phone. Moms aren't the saints of good parenting behavior any more than nannies are.