NYT and school closures

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Closing the schools at the start of the pandemic, when no one really understood what we were dealing with, was pragmatic. Keeping the schools closed once the evidence showed that children by and large were not suffering significant adverse effects from Covid was insane. They should have been back (in person) for the start of the 2020-21 school year, especially the elementary aged kids for whom there was less risk of illness as well as it being far more important for them to be in school in person.

The evidence was not there at the end of the summer 2020. One study of a childcare facility?

It was crystal clear by the summer of 2020 that the people becoming severely ill and/or dying from Covid were the elderly and those with compromised immune systems or underlying heart or respiratory issues. There was zero evidence of young children suffering adverse effects (and obviously we are talking statistically significant- there are always outliers).

No, it wasn’t “crystal clear”. Because kids weren’t back in schools at that point. Obviously vaccines weren’t available. And rapid testing wasn’t accessible until that fall. We were in much different place in August 2020.

You are arguing that it wasn’t clear because kids weren’t in school as a retort to kids should have been in school because it was clear? What?!

It was clear. Decisions were made for the benefit of the adults, children be damned.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Closing the schools at the start of the pandemic, when no one really understood what we were dealing with, was pragmatic. Keeping the schools closed once the evidence showed that children by and large were not suffering significant adverse effects from Covid was insane. They should have been back (in person) for the start of the 2020-21 school year, especially the elementary aged kids for whom there was less risk of illness as well as it being far more important for them to be in school in person.

The evidence was not there at the end of the summer 2020. One study of a childcare facility?

It was crystal clear by the summer of 2020 that the people becoming severely ill and/or dying from Covid were the elderly and those with compromised immune systems or underlying heart or respiratory issues. There was zero evidence of young children suffering adverse effects (and obviously we are talking statistically significant- there are always outliers).

No, it wasn’t “crystal clear”. Because kids weren’t back in schools at that point. Obviously vaccines weren’t available. And rapid testing wasn’t accessible until that fall. We were in much different place in August 2020.

You are arguing that it wasn’t clear because kids weren’t in school as a retort to kids should have been in school because it was clear? What?!

It was clear. Decisions were made for the benefit of the adults, children be damned.

Before the start of school in Aug/Sep 2020 there was very little “evidence” about the effects on children. Even anecdotally because very few schools were in person in spring 2020.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:[twitter]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok. To some of us this was obvious from the get-go. Now go apologize to Ron DeSantis.

+ a billion.

Plus, let's demand some accountability. Time for NYT Editorial Board to resign. All of them.

Ha ha. Some of you are really pieces of work.

Worried you will lose your job?

What?

What is your interest in trying to shut down any discussion about where things went wrong? You are awfully defensive and paranoid that we might have to admit mistakes were made. Why is that?

My kids go to Catholic school, so they were back in person school in fall 2020.

Some of you are kind of crazy.

Mine too, but I had to move from a batshit crazy place to get that. Had we stayed put the kids would have been out until late spring 2021. That's messed up. There was no reason for that whatsoever. There were some terrible decisions and we should hold people accountable for that. Why not?

And you think you get to command the NYT editorial board to resign? Move on. It is 2023. The kids who were hurt the most are the ones who have crazy parents.

Why don't you just sit this conversation out if you aren't interested? What harm is it to you if people want to learn where we went wrong and how do to better in the future?

Let it go. Let it go. Some of you have lost your minds. Go for a walk or something.

You are obsessed with shutting this down. What are you so worried about? Go for a walk yourself if this doesn't interest you.

I realize that posting on a message board that the NYT editorial board must resign is crazy. And ineffective. Go run for your school board if you want to make decisions. Instead of posting nonsense here.

It's amusing how much this bothers you. Must be hitting close to home.

Everyone should be concerned with the nutters running around in 2023 trying to blame people for handling the pandemic in a reasonable, rational way. I’m sorry that the pandemic was hard for you but you’re misdirecting your anger.

The important thing now is addressing educational gaps. Focus on that.

(And glad you finally care about some of the many educational challenges that have existed for a long time and were magnified by the pandemic.)

How do you suggest we do that without admitting that there are problems? Why did the closures set kids back? What do you propose we do right now to address the problems in our public schools?

Have you ever been in a school? These problems existed before the pandemic. The pandemic just exacerbated them. Glad you are paying attention now.

Exactly.

Instead of attacking the people who are actively addressing these issues why don’t you find a way to support them.

Unless you have ulterior (political) motives.

So you are a teacher, is that why you're hyper defensive?

I’m a parent who detests irrational a-holes still attacking our schools/teachers YEARS later. It’s almost as if you don’t want to fix anything at all, just complain about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Closing the schools at the start of the pandemic, when no one really understood what we were dealing with, was pragmatic. Keeping the schools closed once the evidence showed that children by and large were not suffering significant adverse effects from Covid was insane. They should have been back (in person) for the start of the 2020-21 school year, especially the elementary aged kids for whom there was less risk of illness as well as it being far more important for them to be in school in person.

The evidence was not there at the end of the summer 2020. One study of a childcare facility?

It was crystal clear by the summer of 2020 that the people becoming severely ill and/or dying from Covid were the elderly and those with compromised immune systems or underlying heart or respiratory issues. There was zero evidence of young children suffering adverse effects (and obviously we are talking statistically significant- there are always outliers).

No, it wasn’t “crystal clear”. Because kids weren’t back in schools at that point. Obviously vaccines weren’t available. And rapid testing wasn’t accessible until that fall. We were in much different place in August 2020.

You are arguing that it wasn’t clear because kids weren’t in school as a retort to kids should have been in school because it was clear? What?!

It was clear. Decisions were made for the benefit of the adults, children be damned.

Decisions were made for the SUPPOSED benefit of the adults, children be damned.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Closing the schools at the start of the pandemic, when no one really understood what we were dealing with, was pragmatic. Keeping the schools closed once the evidence showed that children by and large were not suffering significant adverse effects from Covid was insane. They should have been back (in person) for the start of the 2020-21 school year, especially the elementary aged kids for whom there was less risk of illness as well as it being far more important for them to be in school in person.

The evidence was not there at the end of the summer 2020. One study of a childcare facility?

It was crystal clear by the summer of 2020 that the people becoming severely ill and/or dying from Covid were the elderly and those with compromised immune systems or underlying heart or respiratory issues. There was zero evidence of young children suffering adverse effects (and obviously we are talking statistically significant- there are always outliers).

No, it wasn’t “crystal clear”. Because kids weren’t back in schools at that point. Obviously vaccines weren’t available. And rapid testing wasn’t accessible until that fall. We were in much different place in August 2020.

You are arguing that it wasn’t clear because kids weren’t in school as a retort to kids should have been in school because it was clear? What?!

It was clear. Decisions were made for the benefit of the adults, children be damned.

Before the start of school in Aug/Sep 2020 there was very little “evidence” about the effects on children. Even anecdotally because very few schools were in person in spring 2020.

You seem to believe that children cease to exist during the summer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Closing the schools at the start of the pandemic, when no one really understood what we were dealing with, was pragmatic. Keeping the schools closed once the evidence showed that children by and large were not suffering significant adverse effects from Covid was insane. They should have been back (in person) for the start of the 2020-21 school year, especially the elementary aged kids for whom there was less risk of illness as well as it being far more important for them to be in school in person.

The evidence was not there at the end of the summer 2020. One study of a childcare facility?

It was crystal clear by the summer of 2020 that the people becoming severely ill and/or dying from Covid were the elderly and those with compromised immune systems or underlying heart or respiratory issues. There was zero evidence of young children suffering adverse effects (and obviously we are talking statistically significant- there are always outliers).

No, it wasn’t “crystal clear”. Because kids weren’t back in schools at that point. Obviously vaccines weren’t available. And rapid testing wasn’t accessible until that fall. We were in much different place in August 2020.

You are arguing that it wasn’t clear because kids weren’t in school as a retort to kids should have been in school because it was clear? What?!

It was clear. Decisions were made for the benefit of the adults, children be damned.

Before the start of school in Aug/Sep 2020 there was very little “evidence” about the effects on children. Even anecdotally because very few schools were in person in spring 2020.

You seem to believe that children cease to exist during the summer.

Certainly most weren’t in a group of 25+ other kids in a small, poorly-ventilated space for 6+ hours/day, including meals.

[Anonymous]

But kids did go back to school in Aug/Sept 2020 in parts of the south, Midwest, and west, basically everywhere except the coasts. And we quickly saw that the sky didn’t fall, that school kids and, yes, teachers too didn’t become horribly sick en masse, and that they didn’t have as bad of learning losses as the closed districts did. They could have planned for a month or even a quarter of closures and then transitioning back to open schools. Instead it was unreachable “metrics” and “14 days no new cases” and this that and the other excuse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:But kids did go back to school in Aug/Sept 2020 in parts of the south, Midwest, and west, basically everywhere except the coasts. And we quickly saw that the sky didn’t fall, that school kids and, yes, teachers too didn’t become horribly sick en masse, and that they didn’t have as bad of learning losses as the closed districts did. They could have planned for a month or even a quarter of closures and then transitioning back to open schools. Instead it was unreachable “metrics” and “14 days no new cases” and this that and the other excuse.

Word.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:But kids did go back to school in Aug/Sept 2020 in parts of the south, Midwest, and west, basically everywhere except the coasts. And we quickly saw that the sky didn’t fall, that school kids and, yes, teachers too didn’t become horribly sick en masse, and that they didn’t have as bad of learning losses as the closed districts did. They could have planned for a month or even a quarter of closures and then transitioning back to open schools. Instead it was unreachable “metrics” and “14 days no new cases” and this that and the other excuse.

Yes, and by the time we saw that the fall surge was already starting. Plus, most of those schools had more space to spread out; they weren’t as super overcrowded as our schools were.

FWIW, our school system started bringing in some kids with special needs in November.

[Anonymous]

^ and we did hear about schools constantly closing and reopening because of outbreaks

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Closing the schools at the start of the pandemic, when no one really understood what we were dealing with, was pragmatic. Keeping the schools closed once the evidence showed that children by and large were not suffering significant adverse effects from Covid was insane. They should have been back (in person) for the start of the 2020-21 school year, especially the elementary aged kids for whom there was less risk of illness as well as it being far more important for them to be in school in person.

The evidence was not there at the end of the summer 2020. One study of a childcare facility?

It was crystal clear by the summer of 2020 that the people becoming severely ill and/or dying from Covid were the elderly and those with compromised immune systems or underlying heart or respiratory issues. There was zero evidence of young children suffering adverse effects (and obviously we are talking statistically significant- there are always outliers).

No, it wasn’t “crystal clear”. Because kids weren’t back in schools at that point. Obviously vaccines weren’t available. And rapid testing wasn’t accessible until that fall. We were in much different place in August 2020.

You are arguing that it wasn’t clear because kids weren’t in school as a retort to kids should have been in school because it was clear? What?!

It was clear. Decisions were made for the benefit of the adults, children be damned.

Before the start of school in Aug/Sep 2020 there was very little “evidence” about the effects on children. Even anecdotally because very few schools were in person in spring 2020.

You seem to believe that children cease to exist during the summer.

Certainly most weren’t in a group of 25+ other kids in a small, poorly-ventilated space for 6+ hours/day, including meals.

And the reason that schools couldn't simply open the windows in September and October or instal better ventilation systems with the billions of dollars distributed since the spring of 2020 is because.........

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:[twitter]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok. To some of us this was obvious from the get-go. Now go apologize to Ron DeSantis.

+ a billion.

Plus, let's demand some accountability. Time for NYT Editorial Board to resign. All of them.

Ha ha. Some of you are really pieces of work.

Worried you will lose your job?

What?

What is your interest in trying to shut down any discussion about where things went wrong? You are awfully defensive and paranoid that we might have to admit mistakes were made. Why is that?

My kids go to Catholic school, so they were back in person school in fall 2020.

Some of you are kind of crazy.

Mine too, but I had to move from a batshit crazy place to get that. Had we stayed put the kids would have been out until late spring 2021. That's messed up. There was no reason for that whatsoever. There were some terrible decisions and we should hold people accountable for that. Why not?

And you think you get to command the NYT editorial board to resign? Move on. It is 2023. The kids who were hurt the most are the ones who have crazy parents.

Why don't you just sit this conversation out if you aren't interested? What harm is it to you if people want to learn where we went wrong and how do to better in the future?

Let it go. Let it go. Some of you have lost your minds. Go for a walk or something.

You are obsessed with shutting this down. What are you so worried about? Go for a walk yourself if this doesn't interest you.

I realize that posting on a message board that the NYT editorial board must resign is crazy. And ineffective. Go run for your school board if you want to make decisions. Instead of posting nonsense here.

It's amusing how much this bothers you. Must be hitting close to home.

Everyone should be concerned with the nutters running around in 2023 trying to blame people for handling the pandemic in a reasonable, rational way. I’m sorry that the pandemic was hard for you but you’re misdirecting your anger.

The important thing now is addressing educational gaps. Focus on that.

(And glad you finally care about some of the many educational challenges that have existed for a long time and were magnified by the pandemic.)

How do you suggest we do that without admitting that there are problems? Why did the closures set kids back? What do you propose we do right now to address the problems in our public schools?

Have you ever been in a school? These problems existed before the pandemic. The pandemic just exacerbated them. Glad you are paying attention now.

Exactly.

Instead of attacking the people who are actively addressing these issues why don’t you find a way to support them.

Unless you have ulterior (political) motives.

So you are a teacher, is that why you're hyper defensive?

I’m a parent who detests irrational a-holes still attacking our schools/teachers YEARS later. It’s almost as if you don’t want to fix anything at all, just complain about it.

At least you admit your bias.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^ and we did hear about schools constantly closing and reopening because of outbreaks

Which incidentally, was also completely unnecessary. Kids with symptoms should have stayed home, kids without symptoms should have been in school. Regardless of exposure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Closing the schools at the start of the pandemic, when no one really understood what we were dealing with, was pragmatic. Keeping the schools closed once the evidence showed that children by and large were not suffering significant adverse effects from Covid was insane. They should have been back (in person) for the start of the 2020-21 school year, especially the elementary aged kids for whom there was less risk of illness as well as it being far more important for them to be in school in person.

The evidence was not there at the end of the summer 2020. One study of a childcare facility?

It was crystal clear by the summer of 2020 that the people becoming severely ill and/or dying from Covid were the elderly and those with compromised immune systems or underlying heart or respiratory issues. There was zero evidence of young children suffering adverse effects (and obviously we are talking statistically significant- there are always outliers).

No, it wasn’t “crystal clear”. Because kids weren’t back in schools at that point. Obviously vaccines weren’t available. And rapid testing wasn’t accessible until that fall. We were in much different place in August 2020.

You are arguing that it wasn’t clear because kids weren’t in school as a retort to kids should have been in school because it was clear? What?!

It was clear. Decisions were made for the benefit of the adults, children be damned.

Before the start of school in Aug/Sep 2020 there was very little “evidence” about the effects on children. Even anecdotally because very few schools were in person in spring 2020.

You seem to believe that children cease to exist during the summer.

Certainly most weren’t in a group of 25+ other kids in a small, poorly-ventilated space for 6+ hours/day, including meals.

And the reason that schools couldn't simply open the windows in September and October or instal better ventilation systems with the billions of dollars distributed since the spring of 2020 is because.........

My kids’ school did this. They went back in Aug 2020. Windows open, masks, spread the kids out, lunch in classrooms, keep them on cohorts to reduce chance of spread. And it was great. And parents still complained. Incessantly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Closing the schools at the start of the pandemic, when no one really understood what we were dealing with, was pragmatic. Keeping the schools closed once the evidence showed that children by and large were not suffering significant adverse effects from Covid was insane. They should have been back (in person) for the start of the 2020-21 school year, especially the elementary aged kids for whom there was less risk of illness as well as it being far more important for them to be in school in person.

The evidence was not there at the end of the summer 2020. One study of a childcare facility?

It was crystal clear by the summer of 2020 that the people becoming severely ill and/or dying from Covid were the elderly and those with compromised immune systems or underlying heart or respiratory issues. There was zero evidence of young children suffering adverse effects (and obviously we are talking statistically significant- there are always outliers).

No, it wasn’t “crystal clear”. Because kids weren’t back in schools at that point. Obviously vaccines weren’t available. And rapid testing wasn’t accessible until that fall. We were in much different place in August 2020.

You are arguing that it wasn’t clear because kids weren’t in school as a retort to kids should have been in school because it was clear? What?!

It was clear. Decisions were made for the benefit of the adults, children be damned.

Before the start of school in Aug/Sep 2020 there was very little “evidence” about the effects on children. Even anecdotally because very few schools were in person in spring 2020.

You seem to believe that children cease to exist during the summer.

Certainly most weren’t in a group of 25+ other kids in a small, poorly-ventilated space for 6+ hours/day, including meals.

And the reason that schools couldn't simply open the windows in September and October or instal better ventilation systems with the billions of dollars distributed since the spring of 2020 is because.........

My kids’ school did this. They went back in Aug 2020. Windows open, masks, spread the kids out, lunch in classrooms, keep them on cohorts to reduce chance of spread. And it was great. And parents still complained. Incessantly.

It was all politics, not education or covid.