COVID Lockdowns Were a Giant Experiment. It Was a Failure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, schools were closed in Sweden. And the elderly and other vulnerable people were told to avoid being in public for over 2 1/2 years. Not to mention

There were also many other restrictions put in place that people ignore, including alcohol sales restrictions, all large events and large localities shutdown, including sports events, zoos, theatres, theme parks. Sports activities all shut down or went outdoors. Even “recommendations” (ie technically binding but unenforced) on restricting travel outside your home region.

https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/yes-schools-were-closed-in-sweden/

And it didn't work so well.

These comparisons are affected by how nations recorded covid deaths. Sweden included people who died from covid and with covid (car accident, covid positive). Norway included those who died from covid. To get around distortions in nations' covid death accounting, look at excess deaths during the covid years. Sweden was higher in 2020 & 2021 given their more open policies. However, other Nordics' excess mortality climbed during 2021 and 2022 while Sweden held steady. Since 2022, Sweden has been right in line with Norway & Finland in terms of excess deaths. https://ourworldindata.org/explorers/coronavirus-data-explorer?facet=none&country=DNK~FIN~NOR~SWE&Metric=Excess+mortality+%28%25%29&Interval=Cumulative&Relative+to+Population=true&Color+by+test+positivity=false

[Anonymous]

If I recalled correctly, COVID affected the immigrant population more severely due to greater incidence of shared living, multi-generational homes, and overall lower-quality of health.

[Anonymous]

Also in Sweden, they are encouraged to actually take sick leave (unlike in the U.S.), and they are probably healthier overall.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Apologies if this was already posted, but I came across this article from New York magazine that made me question the efficacy of lockdowns, and our whole response to the pandemic. Very much 20/20 hindsight, but the more I think about it, the angrier I get, especially with closing the schools.

Here’s a link, along with a key paragraph arguing that Sweden probably had the right response.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/covid-lockdowns-big-fail-joe-nocera-bethany-mclean-book-excerpt.html

So in attempting to gauge the value of lockdowns, the most appropriate way is to look not just at COVID deaths but at all deaths during the pandemic years. That’s known as the “excess deaths” — a measure of how many more people died than in a normal year. One authoritative accounting was compiled by The Spectator using data gathered by the OECD. It showed that during the first two years of the pandemic — 2020 and 2021 — the U.S. had 19 percent more deaths than it normally saw in two years’ time. For the U.K., there was a 10 percent rise. And for Sweden — one of the few countries that had refused to lock down its society — it was just 4 percent. An analysis by Bloomberg found broadly similar results. In other words, for all the criticism Sweden shouldered from the world’s public health officials for refusing to institute lockdowns, it wound up seeing a lower overall death rate during the pandemic than most peer nations that shut down schools and public gatherings. It is not unreasonable to conclude from the available data that the lockdowns led to more overall deaths in the U.S. than a policy that resembled Sweden’s would have.

This is a stupid take.

That was enlightening. Let me guess, you’re a COVID cultist who’s angry that your extreme precautions proved to be a waste of time and resources.

COVID cultists? OK if you do not believe that COVID in its earliest days was a killer disease, then there is no point in talking to you. You will never believe any precaution or vaccination is a needed reality. And those who believe it was a killer disease think you are delusional. You will never convince the latter that covid precautions were a waste so why are you even bothering? Honest question.

But was it really? That’s what I’m not so sure about. You could *maybe* argue it’s a killer disease for anyone over 75. But certainly not normal, healthy adults.

You answer proves my point 100%. You do not think COVID is a killer disease so you will not be able to understand the perspective of people (and the government) who belive that it is. There is no point in having a discussion then.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who is still obsessed and mad over “lockdowns” (which isn’t anything we ever did in this country anyway).

the National Guard wouldn’t let me sit in the park in April 2020.

What park was that, dearie?

I don’t remember any National Guard deployments related to Covid so I am going to call “bullshit” on this one.

Again, I don’t understand the obsession with this. As was previously stated, public health officials did the best they could with the information available at the time. And the goal was to not overwhelm hospitals— to slow the spread, not prevent people from getting sick. They just didn’t want people sick all at once. To that end, social distancing (not “lockdowns” we never had actual lockdowns) were largely effective. Somehow these obsessed people have moved the goalposts and think the objective was preventing people from getting it. That was never the stated objective.

It was in DC. But sure, continue to lie all you want. It’s all you have now.

Liar.

Nope: https://www.113wg.ang.af.mil/News/Article-Display/Article/2452350/a-look-back-at-2020-dc-national-guard-covid-19-response-efforts/

Nope. You couldn’t even spend the time to read what you posted to support your lies.

“The D.C. National Guard’s COVID-19 support missions included creating standalone hospital rooms, helping maintain social distancing guidelines and sewing masks.”

“The D.C. National Guard provided logistical support, transportation and security to the converted facility.”

“Guardsmen helped maintain a calm environment while ensuring shoppers observed social distancing guidelines at supermarkets, monuments, and the Wharf. At a time when the capital region was experiencing face mask shortages, the 113th Aircrew Flight Equipment shop fabricated about 800 masks.”

The National Guard was not kicking old ladies out of parks.

“helping maintain social distance.” what do you think that means? they made me get up and said I could not sit in the park.

here’s another source: https://www.wusa9.com/amp/article/news/health/coronavirus/parks-open-people-npt-adhering-to-social-distancing-rules/65-f3d428e9-76a8-43e4-b4a5-e4d22fcb2acc

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who is still obsessed and mad over “lockdowns” (which isn’t anything we ever did in this country anyway).

the National Guard wouldn’t let me sit in the park in April 2020.

What park was that, dearie?

I don’t remember any National Guard deployments related to Covid so I am going to call “bullshit” on this one.

Again, I don’t understand the obsession with this. As was previously stated, public health officials did the best they could with the information available at the time. And the goal was to not overwhelm hospitals— to slow the spread, not prevent people from getting sick. They just didn’t want people sick all at once. To that end, social distancing (not “lockdowns” we never had actual lockdowns) were largely effective. Somehow these obsessed people have moved the goalposts and think the objective was preventing people from getting it. That was never the stated objective.

It was in DC. But sure, continue to lie all you want. It’s all you have now.

Liar.

Nope: https://www.113wg.ang.af.mil/News/Article-Display/Article/2452350/a-look-back-at-2020-dc-national-guard-covid-19-response-efforts/

Nope. You couldn’t even spend the time to read what you posted to support your lies.

“The D.C. National Guard’s COVID-19 support missions included creating standalone hospital rooms, helping maintain social distancing guidelines and sewing masks.”

“The D.C. National Guard provided logistical support, transportation and security to the converted facility.”

“Guardsmen helped maintain a calm environment while ensuring shoppers observed social distancing guidelines at supermarkets, monuments, and the Wharf. At a time when the capital region was experiencing face mask shortages, the 113th Aircrew Flight Equipment shop fabricated about 800 masks.”

The National Guard was not kicking old ladies out of parks.

“helping maintain social distance.” what do you think that means? they made me get up and said I could not sit in the park.

here’s another source: https://www.wusa9.com/amp/article/news/health/coronavirus/parks-open-people-npt-adhering-to-social-distancing-rules/65-f3d428e9-76a8-43e4-b4a5-e4d22fcb2acc

this article specifically discusses the national guard: https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/patrolling-the-beat-while-keeping-a-distance-police-officers-face-new-rules-rhythms-amid-pandemic/2020/03/27/334b3602-6afc-11ea-abef-020f086a3fab_story.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who is still obsessed and mad over “lockdowns” (which isn’t anything we ever did in this country anyway).

the National Guard wouldn’t let me sit in the park in April 2020.

What park was that, dearie?

I don’t remember any National Guard deployments related to Covid so I am going to call “bullshit” on this one.

Again, I don’t understand the obsession with this. As was previously stated, public health officials did the best they could with the information available at the time. And the goal was to not overwhelm hospitals— to slow the spread, not prevent people from getting sick. They just didn’t want people sick all at once. To that end, social distancing (not “lockdowns” we never had actual lockdowns) were largely effective. Somehow these obsessed people have moved the goalposts and think the objective was preventing people from getting it. That was never the stated objective.

It was in DC. But sure, continue to lie all you want. It’s all you have now.

Liar.

Nope: https://www.113wg.ang.af.mil/News/Article-Display/Article/2452350/a-look-back-at-2020-dc-national-guard-covid-19-response-efforts/

Nope. You couldn’t even spend the time to read what you posted to support your lies.

“The D.C. National Guard’s COVID-19 support missions included creating standalone hospital rooms, helping maintain social distancing guidelines and sewing masks.”

“The D.C. National Guard provided logistical support, transportation and security to the converted facility.”

“Guardsmen helped maintain a calm environment while ensuring shoppers observed social distancing guidelines at supermarkets, monuments, and the Wharf. At a time when the capital region was experiencing face mask shortages, the 113th Aircrew Flight Equipment shop fabricated about 800 masks.”

The National Guard was not kicking old ladies out of parks.

“helping maintain social distance.” what do you think that means? they made me get up and said I could not sit in the park.

here’s another source: https://www.wusa9.com/amp/article/news/health/coronavirus/parks-open-people-npt-adhering-to-social-distancing-rules/65-f3d428e9-76a8-43e4-b4a5-e4d22fcb2acc

That people should stay 6’ apart. Maintaining social distance ≠ not being able to sit in a park.

People lie about so many things on this site, but you take the cake.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who is still obsessed and mad over “lockdowns” (which isn’t anything we ever did in this country anyway).

the National Guard wouldn’t let me sit in the park in April 2020.

What park was that, dearie?

I don’t remember any National Guard deployments related to Covid so I am going to call “bullshit” on this one.

Again, I don’t understand the obsession with this. As was previously stated, public health officials did the best they could with the information available at the time. And the goal was to not overwhelm hospitals— to slow the spread, not prevent people from getting sick. They just didn’t want people sick all at once. To that end, social distancing (not “lockdowns” we never had actual lockdowns) were largely effective. Somehow these obsessed people have moved the goalposts and think the objective was preventing people from getting it. That was never the stated objective.

It was in DC. But sure, continue to lie all you want. It’s all you have now.

Liar.

Nope: https://www.113wg.ang.af.mil/News/Article-Display/Article/2452350/a-look-back-at-2020-dc-national-guard-covid-19-response-efforts/

Nope. You couldn’t even spend the time to read what you posted to support your lies.

“The D.C. National Guard’s COVID-19 support missions included creating standalone hospital rooms, helping maintain social distancing guidelines and sewing masks.”

“The D.C. National Guard provided logistical support, transportation and security to the converted facility.”

“Guardsmen helped maintain a calm environment while ensuring shoppers observed social distancing guidelines at supermarkets, monuments, and the Wharf. At a time when the capital region was experiencing face mask shortages, the 113th Aircrew Flight Equipment shop fabricated about 800 masks.”

The National Guard was not kicking old ladies out of parks.

“helping maintain social distance.” what do you think that means? they made me get up and said I could not sit in the park.

here’s another source: https://www.wusa9.com/amp/article/news/health/coronavirus/parks-open-people-npt-adhering-to-social-distancing-rules/65-f3d428e9-76a8-43e4-b4a5-e4d22fcb2acc

this article specifically discusses the national guard: https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/patrolling-the-beat-while-keeping-a-distance-police-officers-face-new-rules-rhythms-amid-pandemic/2020/03/27/334b3602-6afc-11ea-abef-020f086a3fab_story.html

and this story is about neighborhood federal parks being patrolled by the National Guard: https://www.hillrag.com/2020/04/10/police-national-guard-enforce-distancing-at-lincoln-park/

[Anonymous]

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[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Apologies if this was already posted, but I came across this article from New York magazine that made me question the efficacy of lockdowns, and our whole response to the pandemic. Very much 20/20 hindsight, but the more I think about it, the angrier I get, especially with closing the schools.

Here’s a link, along with a key paragraph arguing that Sweden probably had the right response.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/covid-lockdowns-big-fail-joe-nocera-bethany-mclean-book-excerpt.html

So in attempting to gauge the value of lockdowns, the most appropriate way is to look not just at COVID deaths but at all deaths during the pandemic years. That’s known as the “excess deaths” — a measure of how many more people died than in a normal year. One authoritative accounting was compiled by The Spectator using data gathered by the OECD. It showed that during the first two years of the pandemic — 2020 and 2021 — the U.S. had 19 percent more deaths than it normally saw in two years’ time. For the U.K., there was a 10 percent rise. And for Sweden — one of the few countries that had refused to lock down its society — it was just 4 percent. An analysis by Bloomberg found broadly similar results. In other words, for all the criticism Sweden shouldered from the world’s public health officials for refusing to institute lockdowns, it wound up seeing a lower overall death rate during the pandemic than most peer nations that shut down schools and public gatherings. It is not unreasonable to conclude from the available data that the lockdowns led to more overall deaths in the U.S. than a policy that resembled Sweden’s would have.

This is a stupid take.

That was enlightening. Let me guess, you’re a COVID cultist who’s angry that your extreme precautions proved to be a waste of time and resources.

Oh, you’re dumb. My condolences to your family and friends.

DP

[Anonymous]

Haha has there already been that post about how “we had no lockdowns”? The poster who still keeps her kids in virtual school always comes in to say that.
Of course the response was stupid! Luckily the US is a federation so it was always possible to find places where people kept common sense and at least travel there if not move.
Just make sure you don’t trust the authorities blindly next time. I didn’t and I am happy I kept our lifestyle as normal as was possible under the circumstances (we were in CA, one of the most crazy states).
I wish I traveled even more than I did though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly at this point who cares. We did the best we could under a unique and heretofore inexperienced event. This is for scientists to be studying to plan for future pandemics. Getting angry now is ridiculous.

The problem is we weren’t allowed to ask questions and dissenting views were discouraged. Anytime you’re not allowed to ask questions or push back on something you should be concerned. The climate at the time didn’t allow questioning of precautions.

Because it was an EMERGENCY situation.
Having known several people who died or spent months in the hospital with Covid it was not something most of us wanted to just take our chances with.

Questions and dissent are most important during an emergency. No you don’t get to memory hole this.

What do you think should happen today? Are you advocating for anything in particular?

I think laws should be passed that require schools to remain open. Public health authories should be sent to school to understand risks and benefits. Strong protection of 1A rights in the pending Supreme Court case. Fixing the learning loss is going to be a long term project but the new understanding of the importance of phonics is a great step. We need to do the same for math.

Not going to happen. Please get some therapy. Truly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So you had your hissy fit and voted for Youngkin, OP. You’ll have another chance to vote for Trump next year.

Mic drop.

[Anonymous]

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you don’t get to decide that. it’s ballsy to be so nakedly self-serving though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Haha has there already been that post about how “we had no lockdowns”? The poster who still keeps her kids in virtual school always comes in to say that.
Of course the response was stupid! Luckily the US is a federation so it was always possible to find places where people kept common sense and at least travel there if not move.
Just make sure you don’t trust the authorities blindly next time. I didn’t and I am happy I kept our lifestyle as normal as was possible under the circumstances (we were in CA, one of the most crazy states).
I wish I traveled even more than I did though.

I wish we traveled more too! We were one of the first to travel but I wish I did more. It was so nice and empty …