Is Karen considered a racial slur?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I use it for all races and have not gotten the impression that it’s only reserved for white women. It’s about attitude and not racial IMO.

+1

It's the behavior. My dad is the biggest Karen in my family. We've told him he's not allowed to talk to the servers anymore.

And while you are so righteously defending the servers by calling out your Dad’s behavior, do you even check to make the server’s name isn’t Karen?

Whether or not it’s racist, sexist, or ageist, or any other “ist”, stereotyping ANY group of people and using that stereotype to mock and condemn the group is cruel and bigoted.

If your Dad’s behavior is offensive, by all means call him on it. But please do so by addressing the actual behavior, rather than using it as an excuse to attack an entire group of people who have nothing to do with your Dad, and certainly aren’t responsible for his behavior.

I'm calling out my dad's obsessive complaining at restaurants. It's the behavior.

I'm not stereotyping anyone. I don't think that all older, white women complain excessively. I think some people of various ages, genders, and skin colors do.

It's not about you.

But using a name to label the behavior makes it about the name. Telling him he complains excessively is about the behavior. Calling him a Karen to criticize his behavior, makes it about the name.

I don’t think you’re stereotyping all older, white women. I think you’re stereotyping everyone named Karen. People named Karen may be predominantly (but not exclusively) older, white, women, but only a small percentage of older, white women are actually named Karen.

If you mean it’s not about me as someone named Karen, you’re absolutely correct. My name isn’t Karen.

However, just as you feel compelled to call out your father for his bad behavior, I feel compelled in the interest of fairness, compassion, and civility to call out yours. Please note that I am addressing the specific behavior without resorting to slurs and stereotypes. Incidentally, I consider the use of “Karen” as a slur to be worse than the behavior associated with that label.

And that is exactly the kind of white feminism the word is meant to poke at. People have literally lost their lives to white women who weoponize their privilege. Karen behavior can be deadly. But you want to act like calling someone a Karen is worse than acting like one? Give me a f#cking break.

Do you think her Dad complaining about restaurant service is putting someone’s life at risk? I think that behavior is distinct than the one you’re outraged over. Using the same label for both actually minimizes the worse case by associating it with less severe reactions. It also needlessly targets a group of innocent people who are completely unrelated to the problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I use it for all races and have not gotten the impression that it’s only reserved for white women. It’s about attitude and not racial IMO.

+1

It's the behavior. My dad is the biggest Karen in my family. We've told him he's not allowed to talk to the servers anymore.

And while you are so righteously defending the servers by calling out your Dad’s behavior, do you even check to make the server’s name isn’t Karen?

Whether or not it’s racist, sexist, or ageist, or any other “ist”, stereotyping ANY group of people and using that stereotype to mock and condemn the group is cruel and bigoted.

If your Dad’s behavior is offensive, by all means call him on it. But please do so by addressing the actual behavior, rather than using it as an excuse to attack an entire group of people who have nothing to do with your Dad, and certainly aren’t responsible for his behavior.

I'm calling out my dad's obsessive complaining at restaurants. It's the behavior.

I'm not stereotyping anyone. I don't think that all older, white women complain excessively. I think some people of various ages, genders, and skin colors do.

It's not about you.

But using a name to label the behavior makes it about the name. Telling him he complains excessively is about the behavior. Calling him a Karen to criticize his behavior, makes it about the name.

I don’t think you’re stereotyping all older, white women. I think you’re stereotyping everyone named Karen. People named Karen may be predominantly (but not exclusively) older, white, women, but only a small percentage of older, white women are actually named Karen.

If you mean it’s not about me as someone named Karen, you’re absolutely correct. My name isn’t Karen.

However, just as you feel compelled to call out your father for his bad behavior, I feel compelled in the interest of fairness, compassion, and civility to call out yours. Please note that I am addressing the specific behavior without resorting to slurs and stereotypes. Incidentally, I consider the use of “Karen” as a slur to be worse than the behavior associated with that label.

LOL. No. I have a close friend actually named Karen and she's not a "Karen" at all. Definitely not stereotyping Karens.

You think me telling my dad to chill is worse than him flagging the server to come over 100 times over inane crap? OK...

No, I don’t think telling your father to chill is worse than his behavior. I encourage you to tell him to chill. That addresses the behavior without using someone else’s name as a slur. That’s exactly what I’ve been suggesting you do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I use it for all races and have not gotten the impression that it’s only reserved for white women. It’s about attitude and not racial IMO.

+1

It's the behavior. My dad is the biggest Karen in my family. We've told him he's not allowed to talk to the servers anymore.

And while you are so righteously defending the servers by calling out your Dad’s behavior, do you even check to make the server’s name isn’t Karen?

Whether or not it’s racist, sexist, or ageist, or any other “ist”, stereotyping ANY group of people and using that stereotype to mock and condemn the group is cruel and bigoted.

If your Dad’s behavior is offensive, by all means call him on it. But please do so by addressing the actual behavior, rather than using it as an excuse to attack an entire group of people who have nothing to do with your Dad, and certainly aren’t responsible for his behavior.

I'm calling out my dad's obsessive complaining at restaurants. It's the behavior.

I'm not stereotyping anyone. I don't think that all older, white women complain excessively. I think some people of various ages, genders, and skin colors do.

It's not about you.

But using a name to label the behavior makes it about the name. Telling him he complains excessively is about the behavior. Calling him a Karen to criticize his behavior, makes it about the name.

I don’t think you’re stereotyping all older, white women. I think you’re stereotyping everyone named Karen. People named Karen may be predominantly (but not exclusively) older, white, women, but only a small percentage of older, white women are actually named Karen.

If you mean it’s not about me as someone named Karen, you’re absolutely correct. My name isn’t Karen.

However, just as you feel compelled to call out your father for his bad behavior, I feel compelled in the interest of fairness, compassion, and civility to call out yours. Please note that I am addressing the specific behavior without resorting to slurs and stereotypes. Incidentally, I consider the use of “Karen” as a slur to be worse than the behavior associated with that label.

And that is exactly the kind of white feminism the word is meant to poke at. People have literally lost their lives to white women who weoponize their privilege. Karen behavior can be deadly. But you want to act like calling someone a Karen is worse than acting like one? Give me a f#cking break.

Yeah, two wrongs don’t make a right. Anyone using their power to subjugate another is wrong. People calling the cops on someone simply because of their race is racism. That action is wrong.

But using a middle aged woman’s name to describe that behavior is not right, just because it causes less harm to Middle Aged women than calling the cops does for racial minorities. This isn’t a contest of which is more wrong. They both are to varying degrees.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I use it for all races and have not gotten the impression that it’s only reserved for white women. It’s about attitude and not racial IMO.

+1

It's the behavior. My dad is the biggest Karen in my family. We've told him he's not allowed to talk to the servers anymore.

And while you are so righteously defending the servers by calling out your Dad’s behavior, do you even check to make the server’s name isn’t Karen?

Whether or not it’s racist, sexist, or ageist, or any other “ist”, stereotyping ANY group of people and using that stereotype to mock and condemn the group is cruel and bigoted.

If your Dad’s behavior is offensive, by all means call him on it. But please do so by addressing the actual behavior, rather than using it as an excuse to attack an entire group of people who have nothing to do with your Dad, and certainly aren’t responsible for his behavior.

I'm calling out my dad's obsessive complaining at restaurants. It's the behavior.

I'm not stereotyping anyone. I don't think that all older, white women complain excessively. I think some people of various ages, genders, and skin colors do.

It's not about you.

But using a name to label the behavior makes it about the name. Telling him he complains excessively is about the behavior. Calling him a Karen to criticize his behavior, makes it about the name.

I don’t think you’re stereotyping all older, white women. I think you’re stereotyping everyone named Karen. People named Karen may be predominantly (but not exclusively) older, white, women, but only a small percentage of older, white women are actually named Karen.

If you mean it’s not about me as someone named Karen, you’re absolutely correct. My name isn’t Karen.

However, just as you feel compelled to call out your father for his bad behavior, I feel compelled in the interest of fairness, compassion, and civility to call out yours. Please note that I am addressing the specific behavior without resorting to slurs and stereotypes. Incidentally, I consider the use of “Karen” as a slur to be worse than the behavior associated with that label.

And that is exactly the kind of white feminism the word is meant to poke at. People have literally lost their lives to white women who weoponize their privilege. Karen behavior can be deadly. But you want to act like calling someone a Karen is worse than acting like one? Give me a f#cking break.

+1

So let's joke about a man being a jerk at a restaurant and equating his behavior with the behavior that killed people? Huh? Oh dad, there you go again!? Ridiculous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I use it for all races and have not gotten the impression that it’s only reserved for white women. It’s about attitude and not racial IMO.

+1

It's the behavior. My dad is the biggest Karen in my family. We've told him he's not allowed to talk to the servers anymore.

And while you are so righteously defending the servers by calling out your Dad’s behavior, do you even check to make the server’s name isn’t Karen?

Whether or not it’s racist, sexist, or ageist, or any other “ist”, stereotyping ANY group of people and using that stereotype to mock and condemn the group is cruel and bigoted.

If your Dad’s behavior is offensive, by all means call him on it. But please do so by addressing the actual behavior, rather than using it as an excuse to attack an entire group of people who have nothing to do with your Dad, and certainly aren’t responsible for his behavior.

I'm calling out my dad's obsessive complaining at restaurants. It's the behavior.

I'm not stereotyping anyone. I don't think that all older, white women complain excessively. I think some people of various ages, genders, and skin colors do.

It's not about you.

But using a name to label the behavior makes it about the name. Telling him he complains excessively is about the behavior. Calling him a Karen to criticize his behavior, makes it about the name.

I don’t think you’re stereotyping all older, white women. I think you’re stereotyping everyone named Karen. People named Karen may be predominantly (but not exclusively) older, white, women, but only a small percentage of older, white women are actually named Karen.

If you mean it’s not about me as someone named Karen, you’re absolutely correct. My name isn’t Karen.

However, just as you feel compelled to call out your father for his bad behavior, I feel compelled in the interest of fairness, compassion, and civility to call out yours. Please note that I am addressing the specific behavior without resorting to slurs and stereotypes. Incidentally, I consider the use of “Karen” as a slur to be worse than the behavior associated with that label.

And that is exactly the kind of white feminism the word is meant to poke at. People have literally lost their lives to white women who weoponize their privilege. Karen behavior can be deadly. But you want to act like calling someone a Karen is worse than acting like one? Give me a f#cking break.

No one is defending that behavior. But you are trading one slur for another. And honestly you just proved the teacher’s point that Karen is a racist term.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I use it for all races and have not gotten the impression that it’s only reserved for white women. It’s about attitude and not racial IMO.

+1

It's the behavior. My dad is the biggest Karen in my family. We've told him he's not allowed to talk to the servers anymore.

And while you are so righteously defending the servers by calling out your Dad’s behavior, do you even check to make the server’s name isn’t Karen?

Whether or not it’s racist, sexist, or ageist, or any other “ist”, stereotyping ANY group of people and using that stereotype to mock and condemn the group is cruel and bigoted.

If your Dad’s behavior is offensive, by all means call him on it. But please do so by addressing the actual behavior, rather than using it as an excuse to attack an entire group of people who have nothing to do with your Dad, and certainly aren’t responsible for his behavior.

I'm calling out my dad's obsessive complaining at restaurants. It's the behavior.

I'm not stereotyping anyone. I don't think that all older, white women complain excessively. I think some people of various ages, genders, and skin colors do.

It's not about you.

But using a name to label the behavior makes it about the name. Telling him he complains excessively is about the behavior. Calling him a Karen to criticize his behavior, makes it about the name.

I don’t think you’re stereotyping all older, white women. I think you’re stereotyping everyone named Karen. People named Karen may be predominantly (but not exclusively) older, white, women, but only a small percentage of older, white women are actually named Karen.

If you mean it’s not about me as someone named Karen, you’re absolutely correct. My name isn’t Karen.

However, just as you feel compelled to call out your father for his bad behavior, I feel compelled in the interest of fairness, compassion, and civility to call out yours. Please note that I am addressing the specific behavior without resorting to slurs and stereotypes. Incidentally, I consider the use of “Karen” as a slur to be worse than the behavior associated with that label.

And that is exactly the kind of white feminism the word is meant to poke at. People have literally lost their lives to white women who weoponize their privilege. Karen behavior can be deadly. But you want to act like calling someone a Karen is worse than acting like one? Give me a f#cking break.

Do you think her Dad complaining about restaurant service is putting someone’s life at risk? I think that behavior is distinct than the one you’re outraged over. Using the same label for both actually minimizes the worse case by associating it with less severe reactions. It also needlessly targets a group of innocent people who are completely unrelated to the problem.

Then maybe white people should stop using Black slang they don't understand? A Karen has always been a busybody white women who wields her privilege like a weopon to assert her authority over people of color. It often involves appealing to white male authority to rescue them. And it's gotten plenty of Black men killed. Giving it a cutesy name is about nothint more than taking the power out of it. An if you don't laugh you'll cry situation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I use it for all races and have not gotten the impression that it’s only reserved for white women. It’s about attitude and not racial IMO.

+1

It's the behavior. My dad is the biggest Karen in my family. We've told him he's not allowed to talk to the servers anymore.

And while you are so righteously defending the servers by calling out your Dad’s behavior, do you even check to make the server’s name isn’t Karen?

Whether or not it’s racist, sexist, or ageist, or any other “ist”, stereotyping ANY group of people and using that stereotype to mock and condemn the group is cruel and bigoted.

If your Dad’s behavior is offensive, by all means call him on it. But please do so by addressing the actual behavior, rather than using it as an excuse to attack an entire group of people who have nothing to do with your Dad, and certainly aren’t responsible for his behavior.

I'm calling out my dad's obsessive complaining at restaurants. It's the behavior.

I'm not stereotyping anyone. I don't think that all older, white women complain excessively. I think some people of various ages, genders, and skin colors do.

It's not about you.

But using a name to label the behavior makes it about the name. Telling him he complains excessively is about the behavior. Calling him a Karen to criticize his behavior, makes it about the name.

I don’t think you’re stereotyping all older, white women. I think you’re stereotyping everyone named Karen. People named Karen may be predominantly (but not exclusively) older, white, women, but only a small percentage of older, white women are actually named Karen.

If you mean it’s not about me as someone named Karen, you’re absolutely correct. My name isn’t Karen.

However, just as you feel compelled to call out your father for his bad behavior, I feel compelled in the interest of fairness, compassion, and civility to call out yours. Please note that I am addressing the specific behavior without resorting to slurs and stereotypes. Incidentally, I consider the use of “Karen” as a slur to be worse than the behavior associated with that label.

And that is exactly the kind of white feminism the word is meant to poke at. People have literally lost their lives to white women who weoponize their privilege. Karen behavior can be deadly. But you want to act like calling someone a Karen is worse than acting like one? Give me a f#cking break.

No one is defending that behavior. But you are trading one slur for another. And honestly you just proved the teacher’s point that Karen is a racist term.

Read the quoted post. They literally did defend the behavior. And what slur are we trading? We're talking about gross behavior vs. an insult. Actual crappy behavior vs. A word. See the difference yet?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m a middle aged white woman and do not consider it a racial slur. Karens are busybodies and misdemeanor vigilantes against minorities. Not sure why other middle age women want to defend this behavior and label it racist?

You believe that white women should not have an opinion or a voice, fine. You are free to own your self hatred.
I disagree and therefore find the term Karen a misogynistic, racist slur.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder how old you all are who are responding. The term “Karen” is offensive because it is age-ist as well as misogynist. Karen was a very popular name for a very short period of time. Karens (all ethnicities) are generally between 48 and maybe 60. They are no longer young/pretty and they are an easy target. The behavior the term Karen is used as a short-hand for is generally awful, but by describing these bad people as “Karens”, it denigrates a group of women at a very difficult time of their lives.

It's not age, appearance, gender, or race. It's behavior.

What behavior? Annoying or putting down minorities?

Generally: excessive complaining, false sense of entitlement/superiority, and aggressive nature. Race maybe comes into play for some "Karens" who think that their skin color gives them some extra false superiority.

Have you asked yourself why the name give to these specific behaviors -- complaining, entitlement, aggressive -- is a name almost exclusively associated with middle aged women, a group who historically are expected to disappear from society because they no longer serve the two purposes society has assigned to women (being sexually attractive, having babies)?

Lots of people are annoying, entitled, or aggressive. Why is the nickname for it associated mainly with women between the ages of 40/45 and 60?

Probably coined by someone who saw someone actually named Karen behave poorly.

It's not like someone sat down to research name popularity by age to target that demographic.

You don't have to research the popularity of a name to know that if you meet a Karen, odds are going to be good that she is a white woman in her 40s or 50s. It's instinctive.

But you didn't answer the question. Why is the nickname for being annoying, entitled, and aggressive, a name associated primarily with middle aged white women? Are they the MOST annoying, entitled, aggressive demographic? Or it it possible that middle aged women are assumed to deserve nothing and have nothing of interest to say, and thus anything they say and do is interpreted as annoying and entitled?

Even the stereotype of a Karen as someone who wants to "talk to the manager" raises questions. Sure, sometimes this is the behavior of an entitled, maybe racist person. But what if you've just been charged for something you didn't order and never received, and the server was dismissive and rude to you when you pointed out the error. Is it okay in that situation to ask to speak to a manager? What if the person who rang you up called you a "dumb b***h" when you couldn't get the credit card machine to work? Are you allowed to talk to the manager then?

Is it so hard to imagine that a middle aged white woman might have valid reasons to request better customer service, or to complain about how she's being treated by someone else? Or are middle aged white women simply supposed to accept whatever treatment someone wants to offer, because if she asks for better, she's "entitled, aggressive, annoying"?

And are you really going to tell me that white women are MORE entitled, aggressive, and annoying than white men? Or is it just that white men have more real power to command respect and compliance than anyone else, so they don't have to ask to speak with the manager -- they get better service from the jump and can successfully bully someone into treating them better without needing to call a higher authority.

Yes, this. I was coming on here to write the same, but then saw that you wrote it better. Sad because it's stereotyped as misusing power, but at its root that kind of behavior is due to powerlessness. Complaining, because they can't effect change in any other substantive way, or at all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I use it for all races and have not gotten the impression that it’s only reserved for white women. It’s about attitude and not racial IMO.

+1

It's the behavior. My dad is the biggest Karen in my family. We've told him he's not allowed to talk to the servers anymore.

And while you are so righteously defending the servers by calling out your Dad’s behavior, do you even check to make the server’s name isn’t Karen?

Whether or not it’s racist, sexist, or ageist, or any other “ist”, stereotyping ANY group of people and using that stereotype to mock and condemn the group is cruel and bigoted.

If your Dad’s behavior is offensive, by all means call him on it. But please do so by addressing the actual behavior, rather than using it as an excuse to attack an entire group of people who have nothing to do with your Dad, and certainly aren’t responsible for his behavior.

I'm calling out my dad's obsessive complaining at restaurants. It's the behavior.

I'm not stereotyping anyone. I don't think that all older, white women complain excessively. I think some people of various ages, genders, and skin colors do.

It's not about you.

But using a name to label the behavior makes it about the name. Telling him he complains excessively is about the behavior. Calling him a Karen to criticize his behavior, makes it about the name.

I don’t think you’re stereotyping all older, white women. I think you’re stereotyping everyone named Karen. People named Karen may be predominantly (but not exclusively) older, white, women, but only a small percentage of older, white women are actually named Karen.

If you mean it’s not about me as someone named Karen, you’re absolutely correct. My name isn’t Karen.

However, just as you feel compelled to call out your father for his bad behavior, I feel compelled in the interest of fairness, compassion, and civility to call out yours. Please note that I am addressing the specific behavior without resorting to slurs and stereotypes. Incidentally, I consider the use of “Karen” as a slur to be worse than the behavior associated with that label.

And that is exactly the kind of white feminism the word is meant to poke at. People have literally lost their lives to white women who weoponize their privilege. Karen behavior can be deadly. But you want to act like calling someone a Karen is worse than acting like one? Give me a f#cking break.

Do you think her Dad complaining about restaurant service is putting someone’s life at risk? I think that behavior is distinct than the one you’re outraged over. Using the same label for both actually minimizes the worse case by associating it with less severe reactions. It also needlessly targets a group of innocent people who are completely unrelated to the problem.

Then maybe white people should stop using Black slang they don't understand? A Karen has always been a busybody white women who wields her privilege like a weopon to assert her authority over people of color. It often involves appealing to white male authority to rescue them. And it's gotten plenty of Black men killed. Giving it a cutesy name is about nothint more than taking the power out of it. An if you don't laugh you'll cry situation.

No, it hasn’t. Unfortunately the term is now used to describe everything bad. You don’t think it is awful to tie a person’s name to this behavior?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder how old you all are who are responding. The term “Karen” is offensive because it is age-ist as well as misogynist. Karen was a very popular name for a very short period of time. Karens (all ethnicities) are generally between 48 and maybe 60. They are no longer young/pretty and they are an easy target. The behavior the term Karen is used as a short-hand for is generally awful, but by describing these bad people as “Karens”, it denigrates a group of women at a very difficult time of their lives.

It's not age, appearance, gender, or race. It's behavior.

What behavior? Annoying or putting down minorities?

Generally: excessive complaining, false sense of entitlement/superiority, and aggressive nature. Race maybe comes into play for some "Karens" who think that their skin color gives them some extra false superiority.

Have you asked yourself why the name give to these specific behaviors -- complaining, entitlement, aggressive -- is a name almost exclusively associated with middle aged women, a group who historically are expected to disappear from society because they no longer serve the two purposes society has assigned to women (being sexually attractive, having babies)?

Lots of people are annoying, entitled, or aggressive. Why is the nickname for it associated mainly with women between the ages of 40/45 and 60?

Probably coined by someone who saw someone actually named Karen behave poorly.

It's not like someone sat down to research name popularity by age to target that demographic.

You don't have to research the popularity of a name to know that if you meet a Karen, odds are going to be good that she is a white woman in her 40s or 50s. It's instinctive.

But you didn't answer the question. Why is the nickname for being annoying, entitled, and aggressive, a name associated primarily with middle aged white women? Are they the MOST annoying, entitled, aggressive demographic? Or it it possible that middle aged women are assumed to deserve nothing and have nothing of interest to say, and thus anything they say and do is interpreted as annoying and entitled?

Even the stereotype of a Karen as someone who wants to "talk to the manager" raises questions. Sure, sometimes this is the behavior of an entitled, maybe racist person. But what if you've just been charged for something you didn't order and never received, and the server was dismissive and rude to you when you pointed out the error. Is it okay in that situation to ask to speak to a manager? What if the person who rang you up called you a "dumb b***h" when you couldn't get the credit card machine to work? Are you allowed to talk to the manager then?

Is it so hard to imagine that a middle aged white woman might have valid reasons to request better customer service, or to complain about how she's being treated by someone else? Or are middle aged white women simply supposed to accept whatever treatment someone wants to offer, because if she asks for better, she's "entitled, aggressive, annoying"?

And are you really going to tell me that white women are MORE entitled, aggressive, and annoying than white men? Or is it just that white men have more real power to command respect and compliance than anyone else, so they don't have to ask to speak with the manager -- they get better service from the jump and can successfully bully someone into treating them better without needing to call a higher authority.

My personal theory:
Some people want control others to make themselves feel better about themselves. So they take advantage of power plays when they can - maybe it's a server at a restaurant. Or someone else they think is inferior for whatever reason. They see it as justified punching down.

My dad grew up in a large family with limited funds. They weren't exactly poor, but they were very thrifty. When he goes out to a restaurant he expects to get the FULL value out of this experience that he's paying for. And he goes overboard. He's not exactly rude, but he feels entitled to take up ALL of the server's time. Because he's paying money for her to serve him.

Call it Richard, Dick for short.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I use it for all races and have not gotten the impression that it’s only reserved for white women. It’s about attitude and not racial IMO.

+1

It's the behavior. My dad is the biggest Karen in my family. We've told him he's not allowed to talk to the servers anymore.

And while you are so righteously defending the servers by calling out your Dad’s behavior, do you even check to make the server’s name isn’t Karen?

Whether or not it’s racist, sexist, or ageist, or any other “ist”, stereotyping ANY group of people and using that stereotype to mock and condemn the group is cruel and bigoted.

If your Dad’s behavior is offensive, by all means call him on it. But please do so by addressing the actual behavior, rather than using it as an excuse to attack an entire group of people who have nothing to do with your Dad, and certainly aren’t responsible for his behavior.

I'm calling out my dad's obsessive complaining at restaurants. It's the behavior.

I'm not stereotyping anyone. I don't think that all older, white women complain excessively. I think some people of various ages, genders, and skin colors do.

It's not about you.

But using a name to label the behavior makes it about the name. Telling him he complains excessively is about the behavior. Calling him a Karen to criticize his behavior, makes it about the name.

I don’t think you’re stereotyping all older, white women. I think you’re stereotyping everyone named Karen. People named Karen may be predominantly (but not exclusively) older, white, women, but only a small percentage of older, white women are actually named Karen.

If you mean it’s not about me as someone named Karen, you’re absolutely correct. My name isn’t Karen.

However, just as you feel compelled to call out your father for his bad behavior, I feel compelled in the interest of fairness, compassion, and civility to call out yours. Please note that I am addressing the specific behavior without resorting to slurs and stereotypes. Incidentally, I consider the use of “Karen” as a slur to be worse than the behavior associated with that label.

And that is exactly the kind of white feminism the word is meant to poke at. People have literally lost their lives to white women who weoponize their privilege. Karen behavior can be deadly. But you want to act like calling someone a Karen is worse than acting like one? Give me a f#cking break.

Do you think her Dad complaining about restaurant service is putting someone’s life at risk? I think that behavior is distinct than the one you’re outraged over. Using the same label for both actually minimizes the worse case by associating it with less severe reactions. It also needlessly targets a group of innocent people who are completely unrelated to the problem.

Then maybe white people should stop using Black slang they don't understand? A Karen has always been a busybody white women who wields her privilege like a weopon to assert her authority over people of color. It often involves appealing to white male authority to rescue them. And it's gotten plenty of Black men killed. Giving it a cutesy name is about nothint more than taking the power out of it. An if you don't laugh you'll cry situation.

Black people toss it around indiscriminately too, often just towards a white woman they don't like.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I use it for all races and have not gotten the impression that it’s only reserved for white women. It’s about attitude and not racial IMO.

+1

It's the behavior. My dad is the biggest Karen in my family. We've told him he's not allowed to talk to the servers anymore.

And while you are so righteously defending the servers by calling out your Dad’s behavior, do you even check to make the server’s name isn’t Karen?

Whether or not it’s racist, sexist, or ageist, or any other “ist”, stereotyping ANY group of people and using that stereotype to mock and condemn the group is cruel and bigoted.

If your Dad’s behavior is offensive, by all means call him on it. But please do so by addressing the actual behavior, rather than using it as an excuse to attack an entire group of people who have nothing to do with your Dad, and certainly aren’t responsible for his behavior.

I'm calling out my dad's obsessive complaining at restaurants. It's the behavior.

I'm not stereotyping anyone. I don't think that all older, white women complain excessively. I think some people of various ages, genders, and skin colors do.

It's not about you.

But using a name to label the behavior makes it about the name. Telling him he complains excessively is about the behavior. Calling him a Karen to criticize his behavior, makes it about the name.

I don’t think you’re stereotyping all older, white women. I think you’re stereotyping everyone named Karen. People named Karen may be predominantly (but not exclusively) older, white, women, but only a small percentage of older, white women are actually named Karen.

If you mean it’s not about me as someone named Karen, you’re absolutely correct. My name isn’t Karen.

However, just as you feel compelled to call out your father for his bad behavior, I feel compelled in the interest of fairness, compassion, and civility to call out yours. Please note that I am addressing the specific behavior without resorting to slurs and stereotypes. Incidentally, I consider the use of “Karen” as a slur to be worse than the behavior associated with that label.

And that is exactly the kind of white feminism the word is meant to poke at. People have literally lost their lives to white women who weoponize their privilege. Karen behavior can be deadly. But you want to act like calling someone a Karen is worse than acting like one? Give me a f#cking break.

Do you think her Dad complaining about restaurant service is putting someone’s life at risk? I think that behavior is distinct than the one you’re outraged over. Using the same label for both actually minimizes the worse case by associating it with less severe reactions. It also needlessly targets a group of innocent people who are completely unrelated to the problem.

Then maybe white people should stop using Black slang they don't understand? A Karen has always been a busybody white women who wields her privilege like a weopon to assert her authority over people of color. It often involves appealing to white male authority to rescue them. And it's gotten plenty of Black men killed. Giving it a cutesy name is about nothint more than taking the power out of it. An if you don't laugh you'll cry situation.

“Karen” is a relatively new term. It’s not more than 10 years old.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:40 year old white woman here, so maybe a little young but I don't have an issue.

I view it as a pejorative. In the same way as calling a woman c-u-next-tuesday-ey, but honestly, it is well within my repertoire to act that way even if I shouldn't. Similarly, I don't want to be rude to customer service people, so I try not to act Karen-ey.

It's a stretch to call a phrase directed towards white women talking down to people who are "others" and deeming that unacceptable "racist." Let's not get silly here. Racism is a serious accusation. It's just name calling.

And “racism” involves a power differential. It doesn’t reverse cleanly.

And when men of any race use the term they always have the power differential. It is a slur.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m a middle aged white woman and do not consider it a racial slur. Karens are busybodies and misdemeanor vigilantes against minorities. Not sure why other middle age women want to defend this behavior and label it racist?

You believe that white women should not have an opinion or a voice, fine. You are free to own your self hatred.
I disagree and therefore find the term Karen a misogynistic, racist slur.

That's not what PP said at all.

Let's coin a name for people who just make up fake sheet to argue against. What's your name? We'll name it after you.