Thank God I’m an Atheist

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't imagine a person of faith saying similarly hateful and often untrue things about atheism on DCUM.

What are you referring to? The last few posts were about how us atheists just don’t understand the leap of faith it takes to pray to a God that seems to us to be pretty capricious about his interventions. Clearly it makes sense to those who believe (otherwise why would you pray) but not to those who don’t. Surely you can see that is one of the big dividers between us?

There are other reasons to pray besides believing that God will intervene on your behalf.
If your child is sick, for example, you might pray for all sorts of reasons that don’t include curing your child.

I mean, even if you don’t believe in God, you would still reach out to people (family, friends, etc) who wouldn’t be able to cure your child.

Prayer is about filling a spiritual need, not a pragmatic one. The reason you would pray is more like the reason you would call your sister or your mom when your child is sick and less like the reason you would call your pediatrician when your child is sick.

Does that make more sense?

Wow, respectfully, I could not disagree more.

Person this PP was responding to. I thought what she said made sense. Why do you disagree.

I'm not the pp you're asking, but I thought it made little sense also. I thought prayer was to seek something from God, not to fill a "spiritual need" as the pp said. If you're praying to someone who's not there, it's like talking on the phone when no one is on the other end of the line to hear you. As far as "spiritual need" I think that pp is saying you should do it just to make yourself feel better? Ok, if that works for you fine, but that's not not why I tjink most people pray. Whether there's such a thing as "spiritual need" is perhaps left for a different thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't imagine a person of faith saying similarly hateful and often untrue things about atheism on DCUM.

What are you referring to? The last few posts were about how us atheists just don’t understand the leap of faith it takes to pray to a God that seems to us to be pretty capricious about his interventions. Clearly it makes sense to those who believe (otherwise why would you pray) but not to those who don’t. Surely you can see that is one of the big dividers between us?

There are other reasons to pray besides believing that God will intervene on your behalf.
If your child is sick, for example, you might pray for all sorts of reasons that don’t include curing your child.

I mean, even if you don’t believe in God, you would still reach out to people (family, friends, etc) who wouldn’t be able to cure your child.

Prayer is about filling a spiritual need, not a pragmatic one. The reason you would pray is more like the reason you would call your sister or your mom when your child is sick and less like the reason you would call your pediatrician when your child is sick.

Does that make more sense?

I find what you are describing here to be completely understandable. Yes, we all have to figure out how to cope (and celebrate) and I can fully appreciate that could involve prayer for those who believe.

It is not everyone by far, but the folks who believe that they can ask God to intervene on their behalf (as opposed to asking for strength, peace, clarity etc) confuse me. But to each her own.

That confuses me too, pp.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't imagine a person of faith saying similarly hateful and often untrue things about atheism on DCUM.

What are you referring to? The last few posts were about how us atheists just don’t understand the leap of faith it takes to pray to a God that seems to us to be pretty capricious about his interventions. Clearly it makes sense to those who believe (otherwise why would you pray) but not to those who don’t. Surely you can see that is one of the big dividers between us?

There are other reasons to pray besides believing that God will intervene on your behalf.
If your child is sick, for example, you might pray for all sorts of reasons that don’t include curing your child.

I mean, even if you don’t believe in God, you would still reach out to people (family, friends, etc) who wouldn’t be able to cure your child.

Prayer is about filling a spiritual need, not a pragmatic one. The reason you would pray is more like the reason you would call your sister or your mom when your child is sick and less like the reason you would call your pediatrician when your child is sick.

Does that make more sense?

Wow, respectfully, I could not disagree more.

Person this PP was responding to. I thought what she said made sense. Why do you disagree.

I'm not the pp you're asking, but I thought it made little sense also. I thought prayer was to seek something from God, not to fill a "spiritual need" as the pp said. If you're praying to someone who's not there, it's like talking on the phone when no one is on the other end of the line to hear you. As far as "spiritual need" I think that pp is saying you should do it just to make yourself feel better? Ok, if that works for you fine, but that's not not why I tjink most people pray. Whether there's such a thing as "spiritual need" is perhaps left for a different thread.

DP - As a person of faith (no, not Christian), I think PP made perfect sense. God can be like a friend who is always there to listen. If everyone was "seeking something from God" when they prayed, then their prayers not being fulfilled would certainly be cause for the cynicism and sense of hypocrisy that most atheists attribute to God on this thread (allowing natural disasters, diseases, war and general bad things). I would argue that most people who pray to God are not praying to get something from God in a transactional way, but for exactly the "spiritual need" that PP described. When I pray, it's often a similar conversation that I would have with my husband or my mom, but I don't have to be self-conscious with God in ways that I might be with real people. I can express my fears, hopes, etc without having them fully formed or needing to worry about follow up questions.

When my daughter was in the hospital recently, I prayed for the strength to get through it, I prayed for her doctors, gave thanks for modern medicine that could help her, cried to God that there wasn't more I could do for her myself. Obviously, the doctors were the ones who healed her (props to INOVA Children's), but talking to God helped me and gave me spiritual strength. Other people find that strength in other ways and that's fine too. If prayer or God don't make sense to you, you don't need to do it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can't imagine a person of faith saying similarly hateful and often untrue things about atheism on DCUM.

What are you referring to? The last few posts were about how us atheists just don’t understand the leap of faith it takes to pray to a God that seems to us to be pretty capricious about his interventions. Clearly it makes sense to those who believe (otherwise why would you pray) but not to those who don’t. Surely you can see that is one of the big dividers between us?

There are other reasons to pray besides believing that God will intervene on your behalf.
If your child is sick, for example, you might pray for all sorts of reasons that don’t include curing your child.

I mean, even if you don’t believe in God, you would still reach out to people (family, friends, etc) who wouldn’t be able to cure your child.

Prayer is about filling a spiritual need, not a pragmatic one. The reason you would pray is more like the reason you would call your sister or your mom when your child is sick and less like the reason you would call your pediatrician when your child is sick.

Does that make more sense?

Wow, respectfully, I could not disagree more.

Person this PP was responding to. I thought what she said made sense. Why do you disagree.

I'm not the pp you're asking, but I thought it made little sense also. I thought prayer was to seek something from God, not to fill a "spiritual need" as the pp said. If you're praying to someone who's not there, it's like talking on the phone when no one is on the other end of the line to hear you. As far as "spiritual need" I think that pp is saying you should do it just to make yourself feel better? Ok, if that works for you fine, but that's not not why I tjink most people pray. Whether there's such a thing as "spiritual need" is perhaps left for a different thread.

DP - As a person of faith (no, not Christian), I think PP made perfect sense. God can be like a friend who is always there to listen. If everyone was "seeking something from God" when they prayed, then their prayers not being fulfilled would certainly be cause for the cynicism and sense of hypocrisy that most atheists attribute to God on this thread (allowing natural disasters, diseases, war and general bad things). I would argue that most people who pray to God are not praying to get something from God in a transactional way, but for exactly the "spiritual need" that PP described. When I pray, it's often a similar conversation that I would have with my husband or my mom, but I don't have to be self-conscious with God in ways that I might be with real people. I can express my fears, hopes, etc without having them fully formed or needing to worry about follow up questions.

When my daughter was in the hospital recently, I prayed for the strength to get through it, I prayed for her doctors, gave thanks for modern medicine that could help her, cried to God that there wasn't more I could do for her myself. Obviously, the doctors were the ones who healed her (props to INOVA Children's), but talking to God helped me and gave me spiritual strength. Other people find that strength in other ways and that's fine too. If prayer or God don't make sense to you, you don't need to do it.

^ Yes, I guess it gives comfort if you believe "God can be like a friend who is always there to listen." It does makes sense that praying helped you cope with that ordeal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All the major religions are misogynistic, which is how we know they are creations of men and not creations of something divine.

That is why I’m an atheist in terms of all known gods on offer.

Jesus brought women into the sphere of faith and even leadership. He told Martha, who was busy in the kitchen cooking for her guests, to join her sister Martha to learn from Jesus' teaching. He pardoned a prostitute. Women were the first to see the empty tomb after the cruxifiction, and the first to spread the news to the men. Of course, what the patriarchy did with all this after a few centuries later is another story.

You're so funny to cherry pick the few stories if women from the Bible. Didnyou read the rest of it?

....by men for men....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All the major religions are misogynistic, which is how we know they are creations of men and not creations of something divine.

That is why I’m an atheist in terms of all known gods on offer.

Jesus brought women into the sphere of faith and even leadership. He told Martha, who was busy in the kitchen cooking for her guests, to join her sister Martha to learn from Jesus' teaching. He pardoned a prostitute. Women were the first to see the empty tomb after the cruxifiction, and the first to spread the news to the men. Of course, what the patriarchy did with all this after a few centuries later is another story.

You're so funny to cherry pick the few stories if women from the Bible. Didnyou read the rest of it?

....by men for men....

"In pain you shall bring forth children, yet your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you." Exodus 20:17

"If there is a young woman, a virgin already engaged to be married, and a man meets her in the town and lies with her, you shall...stone them to death, the young woman because she did not cry for help...and the man because he violated his neighbor's wife." [If the woman is not engaged] "the man who lay with her shall give 50 shekels of silver to the young woman's father, and she shall become his wife." Ephesians 5:22-23

"Wives, be subject to your husbands as you are to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife just as Christ is the head of the church." 1 Corinthians 14:34-35

Paul on women's conduct in church: "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak... And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home." 1 Timothy 2:13-15

“And everything on which she lies during her menstrual impurity shall be unclean. Everything also on which she sits shall be unclean.” — Leviticus 15:20

“I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.” — Timothy 2:12

Feminist masterpiece.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All the major religions are misogynistic, which is how we know they are creations of men and not creations of something divine.

That is why I’m an atheist in terms of all known gods on offer.

Jesus brought women into the sphere of faith and even leadership. He told Martha, who was busy in the kitchen cooking for her guests, to join her sister Martha to learn from Jesus' teaching. He pardoned a prostitute. Women were the first to see the empty tomb after the cruxifiction, and the first to spread the news to the men. Of course, what the patriarchy did with all this after a few centuries later is another story.

You're so funny to cherry pick the few stories if women from the Bible. Didnyou read the rest of it?

....by men for men....

I hate to barge into an atheist thread, but since you ask…

Yes, I’ve read the whole Bible. And I’m completely comfortable with womens’ role in the New Testament. Jesus was great and many of us don’t take Paul literally.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All the major religions are misogynistic, which is how we know they are creations of men and not creations of something divine.

That is why I’m an atheist in terms of all known gods on offer.

Jesus brought women into the sphere of faith and even leadership. He told Martha, who was busy in the kitchen cooking for her guests, to join her sister Martha to learn from Jesus' teaching. He pardoned a prostitute. Women were the first to see the empty tomb after the cruxifiction, and the first to spread the news to the men. Of course, what the patriarchy did with all this after a few centuries later is another story.

You're so funny to cherry pick the few stories if women from the Bible. Didnyou read the rest of it?

....by men for men....

"In pain you shall bring forth children, yet your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you." Exodus 20:17

"If there is a young woman, a virgin already engaged to be married, and a man meets her in the town and lies with her, you shall...stone them to death, the young woman because she did not cry for help...and the man because he violated his neighbor's wife." [If the woman is not engaged] "the man who lay with her shall give 50 shekels of silver to the young woman's father, and she shall become his wife." Ephesians 5:22-23

"Wives, be subject to your husbands as you are to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife just as Christ is the head of the church." 1 Corinthians 14:34-35

Paul on women's conduct in church: "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak... And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home." 1 Timothy 2:13-15

“And everything on which she lies during her menstrual impurity shall be unclean. Everything also on which she sits shall be unclean.” — Leviticus 15:20

“I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.” — Timothy 2:12

Feminist masterpiece.

Your quotes from Timothy, Ephesians and Corinthians are from Paul’s letters. Not from Jesus. Many of us Protestants regard Paul’s letters as pastoral letters to growing churches, and as such they reflect the mores of Paul’s time. They don’t reflect God’s words for all time, which we see in the gospels.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All the major religions are misogynistic, which is how we know they are creations of men and not creations of something divine.

That is why I’m an atheist in terms of all known gods on offer.

Jesus brought women into the sphere of faith and even leadership. He told Martha, who was busy in the kitchen cooking for her guests, to join her sister Martha to learn from Jesus' teaching. He pardoned a prostitute. Women were the first to see the empty tomb after the cruxifiction, and the first to spread the news to the men. Of course, what the patriarchy did with all this after a few centuries later is another story.

You're so funny to cherry pick the few stories if women from the Bible. Didnyou read the rest of it?

....by men for men....

"In pain you shall bring forth children, yet your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you." Exodus 20:17

"If there is a young woman, a virgin already engaged to be married, and a man meets her in the town and lies with her, you shall...stone them to death, the young woman because she did not cry for help...and the man because he violated his neighbor's wife." [If the woman is not engaged] "the man who lay with her shall give 50 shekels of silver to the young woman's father, and she shall become his wife." Ephesians 5:22-23

"Wives, be subject to your husbands as you are to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife just as Christ is the head of the church." 1 Corinthians 14:34-35

Paul on women's conduct in church: "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak... And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home." 1 Timothy 2:13-15

“And everything on which she lies during her menstrual impurity shall be unclean. Everything also on which she sits shall be unclean.” — Leviticus 15:20

“I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.” — Timothy 2:12

Feminist masterpiece.

Your quotes from Timothy, Ephesians and Corinthians are from Paul’s letters. Not from Jesus. Many of us Protestants regard Paul’s letters as pastoral letters to growing churches, and as such they reflect the mores of Paul’s time. They don’t reflect God’s words for all time, which we see in the gospels.

I respect and admire your decision to ignore immoral parts of the book. This world would be a lot better place if all believers did so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All the major religions are misogynistic, which is how we know they are creations of men and not creations of something divine.

That is why I’m an atheist in terms of all known gods on offer.

Jesus brought women into the sphere of faith and even leadership. He told Martha, who was busy in the kitchen cooking for her guests, to join her sister Martha to learn from Jesus' teaching. He pardoned a prostitute. Women were the first to see the empty tomb after the cruxifiction, and the first to spread the news to the men. Of course, what the patriarchy did with all this after a few centuries later is another story.

You're so funny to cherry pick the few stories if women from the Bible. Didnyou read the rest of it?

....by men for men....

"In pain you shall bring forth children, yet your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you." Exodus 20:17

"If there is a young woman, a virgin already engaged to be married, and a man meets her in the town and lies with her, you shall...stone them to death, the young woman because she did not cry for help...and the man because he violated his neighbor's wife." [If the woman is not engaged] "the man who lay with her shall give 50 shekels of silver to the young woman's father, and she shall become his wife." Ephesians 5:22-23

"Wives, be subject to your husbands as you are to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife just as Christ is the head of the church." 1 Corinthians 14:34-35

Paul on women's conduct in church: "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak... And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home." 1 Timothy 2:13-15

“And everything on which she lies during her menstrual impurity shall be unclean. Everything also on which she sits shall be unclean.” — Leviticus 15:20

“I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.” — Timothy 2:12

Feminist masterpiece.

Your quotes from Timothy, Ephesians and Corinthians are from Paul’s letters. Not from Jesus. Many of us Protestants regard Paul’s letters as pastoral letters to growing churches, and as such they reflect the mores of Paul’s time. They don’t reflect God’s words for all time, which we see in the gospels.

I respect and admire your decision to ignore immoral parts of the book. This world would be a lot better place if all believers did so.

This isn’t an outlier view. It’s well established that Paul was writing pastoral letters to far-flung early churches.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All the major religions are misogynistic, which is how we know they are creations of men and not creations of something divine.

That is why I’m an atheist in terms of all known gods on offer.

Jesus brought women into the sphere of faith and even leadership. He told Martha, who was busy in the kitchen cooking for her guests, to join her sister Martha to learn from Jesus' teaching. He pardoned a prostitute. Women were the first to see the empty tomb after the cruxifiction, and the first to spread the news to the men. Of course, what the patriarchy did with all this after a few centuries later is another story.

You're so funny to cherry pick the few stories if women from the Bible. Didnyou read the rest of it?

....by men for men....

"In pain you shall bring forth children, yet your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you." Exodus 20:17

"If there is a young woman, a virgin already engaged to be married, and a man meets her in the town and lies with her, you shall...stone them to death, the young woman because she did not cry for help...and the man because he violated his neighbor's wife." [If the woman is not engaged] "the man who lay with her shall give 50 shekels of silver to the young woman's father, and she shall become his wife." Ephesians 5:22-23

"Wives, be subject to your husbands as you are to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife just as Christ is the head of the church." 1 Corinthians 14:34-35

Paul on women's conduct in church: "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak... And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home." 1 Timothy 2:13-15

“And everything on which she lies during her menstrual impurity shall be unclean. Everything also on which she sits shall be unclean.” — Leviticus 15:20

“I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.” — Timothy 2:12

Feminist masterpiece.

Your quotes from Timothy, Ephesians and Corinthians are from Paul’s letters. Not from Jesus. Many of us Protestants regard Paul’s letters as pastoral letters to growing churches, and as such they reflect the mores of Paul’s time. They don’t reflect God’s words for all time, which we see in the gospels.

I respect and admire your decision to ignore immoral parts of the book. This world would be a lot better place if all believers did so.

This isn’t an outlier view. It’s well established that Paul was writing pastoral letters to far-flung early churches.

There are more quotes listed than Paul.

The comment stands.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All the major religions are misogynistic, which is how we know they are creations of men and not creations of something divine.

That is why I’m an atheist in terms of all known gods on offer.

Jesus brought women into the sphere of faith and even leadership. He told Martha, who was busy in the kitchen cooking for her guests, to join her sister Martha to learn from Jesus' teaching. He pardoned a prostitute. Women were the first to see the empty tomb after the cruxifiction, and the first to spread the news to the men. Of course, what the patriarchy did with all this after a few centuries later is another story.

You're so funny to cherry pick the few stories if women from the Bible. Didnyou read the rest of it?

....by men for men....

"In pain you shall bring forth children, yet your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you." Exodus 20:17

"If there is a young woman, a virgin already engaged to be married, and a man meets her in the town and lies with her, you shall...stone them to death, the young woman because she did not cry for help...and the man because he violated his neighbor's wife." [If the woman is not engaged] "the man who lay with her shall give 50 shekels of silver to the young woman's father, and she shall become his wife." Ephesians 5:22-23

"Wives, be subject to your husbands as you are to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife just as Christ is the head of the church." 1 Corinthians 14:34-35

Paul on women's conduct in church: "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak... And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home." 1 Timothy 2:13-15

“And everything on which she lies during her menstrual impurity shall be unclean. Everything also on which she sits shall be unclean.” — Leviticus 15:20

“I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.” — Timothy 2:12

Feminist masterpiece.

I'm glad to see these compiled so I can understand how my fundamentalist Christian aquaintance sees herself an her two daughters, and why they cover their heads (even with their hands if they don't have a scarf or other head covering) when there is any praying going on. And why they aren't allowed to speak in their "meetings", which is what they call their twice weekly bible studies in their home. Oh...and why this woman has to ask her husband's permission to do anything and why he gets to decide everything about their lives. I find it vile, but to each his own I guess??

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All the major religions are misogynistic, which is how we know they are creations of men and not creations of something divine.

That is why I’m an atheist in terms of all known gods on offer.

Jesus brought women into the sphere of faith and even leadership. He told Martha, who was busy in the kitchen cooking for her guests, to join her sister Martha to learn from Jesus' teaching. He pardoned a prostitute. Women were the first to see the empty tomb after the cruxifiction, and the first to spread the news to the men. Of course, what the patriarchy did with all this after a few centuries later is another story.

You're so funny to cherry pick the few stories if women from the Bible. Didnyou read the rest of it?

....by men for men....

"In pain you shall bring forth children, yet your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you." Exodus 20:17

"If there is a young woman, a virgin already engaged to be married, and a man meets her in the town and lies with her, you shall...stone them to death, the young woman because she did not cry for help...and the man because he violated his neighbor's wife." [If the woman is not engaged] "the man who lay with her shall give 50 shekels of silver to the young woman's father, and she shall become his wife." Ephesians 5:22-23

"Wives, be subject to your husbands as you are to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife just as Christ is the head of the church." 1 Corinthians 14:34-35

Paul on women's conduct in church: "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak... And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home." 1 Timothy 2:13-15

“And everything on which she lies during her menstrual impurity shall be unclean. Everything also on which she sits shall be unclean.” — Leviticus 15:20

“I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.” — Timothy 2:12

Feminist masterpiece.

Your quotes from Timothy, Ephesians and Corinthians are from Paul’s letters. Not from Jesus. Many of us Protestants regard Paul’s letters as pastoral letters to growing churches, and as such they reflect the mores of Paul’s time. They don’t reflect God’s words for all time, which we see in the gospels.

I respect and admire your decision to ignore immoral parts of the book. This world would be a lot better place if all believers did so.

This isn’t an outlier view. It’s well established that Paul was writing pastoral letters to far-flung early churches.

There are more quotes listed than Paul.

The comment stands.

Yes, quotes from the Old Testament, Exodus and Leviticus. Not from Jesus.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All the major religions are misogynistic, which is how we know they are creations of men and not creations of something divine.

That is why I’m an atheist in terms of all known gods on offer.

Jesus brought women into the sphere of faith and even leadership. He told Martha, who was busy in the kitchen cooking for her guests, to join her sister Martha to learn from Jesus' teaching. He pardoned a prostitute. Women were the first to see the empty tomb after the cruxifiction, and the first to spread the news to the men. Of course, what the patriarchy did with all this after a few centuries later is another story.

You're so funny to cherry pick the few stories if women from the Bible. Didnyou read the rest of it?

....by men for men....

"In pain you shall bring forth children, yet your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you." Exodus 20:17

"If there is a young woman, a virgin already engaged to be married, and a man meets her in the town and lies with her, you shall...stone them to death, the young woman because she did not cry for help...and the man because he violated his neighbor's wife." [If the woman is not engaged] "the man who lay with her shall give 50 shekels of silver to the young woman's father, and she shall become his wife." Ephesians 5:22-23

"Wives, be subject to your husbands as you are to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife just as Christ is the head of the church." 1 Corinthians 14:34-35

Paul on women's conduct in church: "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak... And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home." 1 Timothy 2:13-15

“And everything on which she lies during her menstrual impurity shall be unclean. Everything also on which she sits shall be unclean.” — Leviticus 15:20

“I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.” — Timothy 2:12

Feminist masterpiece.

Your quotes from Timothy, Ephesians and Corinthians are from Paul’s letters. Not from Jesus. Many of us Protestants regard Paul’s letters as pastoral letters to growing churches, and as such they reflect the mores of Paul’s time. They don’t reflect God’s words for all time, which we see in the gospels.

I respect and admire your decision to ignore immoral parts of the book. This world would be a lot better place if all believers did so.

This isn’t an outlier view. It’s well established that Paul was writing pastoral letters to far-flung early churches.

There are more quotes listed than Paul.

The comment stands.

Yes, quotes from the Old Testament, Exodus and Leviticus. Not from Jesus.

Jew here, just stopping by to point out that we aren't textual literalists. We have our own tradition of interpretation that puts the quotes above in a different frame within our theology. Not accusing anyone of saying differently, but don't want this to go that route.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All the major religions are misogynistic, which is how we know they are creations of men and not creations of something divine.

That is why I’m an atheist in terms of all known gods on offer.

Jesus brought women into the sphere of faith and even leadership. He told Martha, who was busy in the kitchen cooking for her guests, to join her sister Martha to learn from Jesus' teaching. He pardoned a prostitute. Women were the first to see the empty tomb after the cruxifiction, and the first to spread the news to the men. Of course, what the patriarchy did with all this after a few centuries later is another story.

You're so funny to cherry pick the few stories if women from the Bible. Didnyou read the rest of it?

....by men for men....

"In pain you shall bring forth children, yet your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you." Exodus 20:17

"If there is a young woman, a virgin already engaged to be married, and a man meets her in the town and lies with her, you shall...stone them to death, the young woman because she did not cry for help...and the man because he violated his neighbor's wife." [If the woman is not engaged] "the man who lay with her shall give 50 shekels of silver to the young woman's father, and she shall become his wife." Ephesians 5:22-23

"Wives, be subject to your husbands as you are to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife just as Christ is the head of the church." 1 Corinthians 14:34-35

Paul on women's conduct in church: "Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak... And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home." 1 Timothy 2:13-15

“And everything on which she lies during her menstrual impurity shall be unclean. Everything also on which she sits shall be unclean.” — Leviticus 15:20

“I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.” — Timothy 2:12

Feminist masterpiece.

Your quotes from Timothy, Ephesians and Corinthians are from Paul’s letters. Not from Jesus. Many of us Protestants regard Paul’s letters as pastoral letters to growing churches, and as such they reflect the mores of Paul’s time. They don’t reflect God’s words for all time, which we see in the gospels.

I respect and admire your decision to ignore immoral parts of the book. This world would be a lot better place if all believers did so.

This isn’t an outlier view. It’s well established that Paul was writing pastoral letters to far-flung early churches.

There are more quotes listed than Paul.

The comment stands.

Yes, quotes from the Old Testament, Exodus and Leviticus. Not from Jesus.

Jew here, just stopping by to point out that we aren't textual literalists. We have our own tradition of interpretation that puts the quotes above in a different frame within our theology. Not accusing anyone of saying differently, but don't want this to go that route.

Christian here. I think we agree then that you can’t simply take quotes out of context from anywhere in the Bible and assume you understand things.