Is it typical for elementary to group all IEP kids together in the same class

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Btw—it does seem like the IEPs are grouped together in one class so then only one Special Ed teacher is needed in one room. I think there’s an argument that it’s not for the best for child development even though it helps the principal with staffing.

Well yes, but there's no right to "the best".

The point is that the principal is creating the restrictive environment for learning by placing 12 IEPs together.

What's restrictive about it?

They are restricting the IEP students to one specific classroom.

So, the argument is this: It is restrictive to put my "good disabled" child in a class with those other "bad disabled" children! My child is normal but those children are a problem! All the disabled children who can pass for abled should get a special classroom separate from the disabled children with disruptive disabilities! How dare they need support, too! Why must we all be lumped together when everyone knows my child is better because their disability isn't as obvious!

Which is a pretty problematic way of looking at things. Just say it plainly, you don't want your child educated with students who have disabilities, despite having a child with disabilities yourself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Btw—it does seem like the IEPs are grouped together in one class so then only one Special Ed teacher is needed in one room. I think there’s an argument that it’s not for the best for child development even though it helps the principal with staffing.

Well yes, but there's no right to "the best".

The point is that the principal is creating the restrictive environment for learning by placing 12 IEPs together.

What's restrictive about it?

They are restricting the IEP students to one specific classroom.

So, the argument is this: It is restrictive to put my "good disabled" child in a class with those other "bad disabled" children! My child is normal but those children are a problem! All the disabled children who can pass for abled should get a special classroom separate from the disabled children with disruptive disabilities! How dare they need support, too! Why must we all be lumped together when everyone knows my child is better because their disability isn't as obvious!

Which is a pretty problematic way of looking at things. Just say it plainly, you don't want your child educated with students who have disabilities, despite having a child with disabilities yourself.

Wow, you seem to have brought other baggage to this conversation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Btw—it does seem like the IEPs are grouped together in one class so then only one Special Ed teacher is needed in one room. I think there’s an argument that it’s not for the best for child development even though it helps the principal with staffing.

Well yes, but there's no right to "the best".

The point is that the principal is creating the restrictive environment for learning by placing 12 IEPs together.

What's restrictive about it?

They are restricting the IEP students to one specific classroom.

So, the argument is this: It is restrictive to put my "good disabled" child in a class with those other "bad disabled" children! My child is normal but those children are a problem! All the disabled children who can pass for abled should get a special classroom separate from the disabled children with disruptive disabilities! How dare they need support, too! Why must we all be lumped together when everyone knows my child is better because their disability isn't as obvious!

Which is a pretty problematic way of looking at things. Just say it plainly, you don't want your child educated with students who have disabilities, despite having a child with disabilities yourself.

Wow, you seem to have brought other baggage to this conversation.

No, I am just annoyed by the argument that some disabilities are detrimental to other students' learning, which has been brought up repeatedly in this thread. That a student needing more support somehow robs other students of support and lowers the quality of education for everyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Btw—it does seem like the IEPs are grouped together in one class so then only one Special Ed teacher is needed in one room. I think there’s an argument that it’s not for the best for child development even though it helps the principal with staffing.

Well yes, but there's no right to "the best".

The point is that the principal is creating the restrictive environment for learning by placing 12 IEPs together.

What's restrictive about it?

They are restricting the IEP students to one specific classroom.

So, the argument is this: It is restrictive to put my "good disabled" child in a class with those other "bad disabled" children! My child is normal but those children are a problem! All the disabled children who can pass for abled should get a special classroom separate from the disabled children with disruptive disabilities! How dare they need support, too! Why must we all be lumped together when everyone knows my child is better because their disability isn't as obvious!

Which is a pretty problematic way of looking at things. Just say it plainly, you don't want your child educated with students who have disabilities, despite having a child with disabilities yourself.

You are entirely missing the point. No one has an issue with it but depending on the issues/delays kids need to be with a diverse group of peers AND, the academics are very watered down. It's no ok to dump all the kids with IEP's in one classroom. That basically means two other classrooms don't have any kids with SN. What happens is the kids with mild SN don't get their needs met as the focus is on the higher needs kids. Also, some kids don't do well in chaotic situations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Btw—it does seem like the IEPs are grouped together in one class so then only one Special Ed teacher is needed in one room. I think there’s an argument that it’s not for the best for child development even though it helps the principal with staffing.

Well yes, but there's no right to "the best".

The point is that the principal is creating the restrictive environment for learning by placing 12 IEPs together.

What's restrictive about it?

They are restricting the IEP students to one specific classroom.

So, the argument is this: It is restrictive to put my "good disabled" child in a class with those other "bad disabled" children! My child is normal but those children are a problem! All the disabled children who can pass for abled should get a special classroom separate from the disabled children with disruptive disabilities! How dare they need support, too! Why must we all be lumped together when everyone knows my child is better because their disability isn't as obvious!

Which is a pretty problematic way of looking at things. Just say it plainly, you don't want your child educated with students who have disabilities, despite having a child with disabilities yourself.

Wow, you seem to have brought other baggage to this conversation.

No, I am just annoyed by the argument that some disabilities are detrimental to other students' learning, which has been brought up repeatedly in this thread. That a student needing more support somehow robs other students of support and lowers the quality of education for everyone.

Why do inclusion classrooms at all then? Wouldn't it be easier if all the kids with disabilities were separated from the kids without disabilities? Then they would have all the supports right there with them! we should actually combine the IEP kids from different elementaries if they don't have the numbers for a full class. That would make it easier for the system to provide the legally required services!

Do you get why that's something a lot of parents with kids with disabilities don't want?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Btw—it does seem like the IEPs are grouped together in one class so then only one Special Ed teacher is needed in one room. I think there’s an argument that it’s not for the best for child development even though it helps the principal with staffing.

Well yes, but there's no right to "the best".

The point is that the principal is creating the restrictive environment for learning by placing 12 IEPs together.

What's restrictive about it?

They are restricting the IEP students to one specific classroom.

So, the argument is this: It is restrictive to put my "good disabled" child in a class with those other "bad disabled" children! My child is normal but those children are a problem! All the disabled children who can pass for abled should get a special classroom separate from the disabled children with disruptive disabilities! How dare they need support, too! Why must we all be lumped together when everyone knows my child is better because their disability isn't as obvious!

Which is a pretty problematic way of looking at things. Just say it plainly, you don't want your child educated with students who have disabilities, despite having a child with disabilities yourself.

Wow, you seem to have brought other baggage to this conversation.

No, I am just annoyed by the argument that some disabilities are detrimental to other students' learning, which has been brought up repeatedly in this thread. That a student needing more support somehow robs other students of support and lowers the quality of education for everyone.

If there are 18 students in a classroom. 4 are high needs, 4 moderate needs, 4 low needs, 4 no SN. Who do you think they will cater to? The high and moderate needs. They slow down the curriculum and the low needs SN kids often get ignored. We had this happen to our child. It was a hot mess of a year and we had to pay for private services, which meant pulling our child out of school multiple times a week and additional tutoring to make sure the academics were grade level.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Btw—it does seem like the IEPs are grouped together in one class so then only one Special Ed teacher is needed in one room. I think there’s an argument that it’s not for the best for child development even though it helps the principal with staffing.

Well yes, but there's no right to "the best".

The point is that the principal is creating the restrictive environment for learning by placing 12 IEPs together.

What's restrictive about it?

They are restricting the IEP students to one specific classroom.

So, the argument is this: It is restrictive to put my "good disabled" child in a class with those other "bad disabled" children! My child is normal but those children are a problem! All the disabled children who can pass for abled should get a special classroom separate from the disabled children with disruptive disabilities! How dare they need support, too! Why must we all be lumped together when everyone knows my child is better because their disability isn't as obvious!

Which is a pretty problematic way of looking at things. Just say it plainly, you don't want your child educated with students who have disabilities, despite having a child with disabilities yourself.

Wow, you seem to have brought other baggage to this conversation.

No, I am just annoyed by the argument that some disabilities are detrimental to other students' learning, which has been brought up repeatedly in this thread. That a student needing more support somehow robs other students of support and lowers the quality of education for everyone.

Why do inclusion classrooms at all then? Wouldn't it be easier if all the kids with disabilities were separated from the kids without disabilities? Then they would have all the supports right there with them! we should actually combine the IEP kids from different elementaries if they don't have the numbers for a full class. That would make it easier for the system to provide the legally required services!

Do you get why that's something a lot of parents with kids with disabilities don't want?

The problem is that the higher need disabilities take up the majority of the time and the instruction level is geared toward them so other kids' needs aren't met. If your child is a higher need, then its great for them, but not so great for kids who need social peer modeling and on grade-level academics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Btw—it does seem like the IEPs are grouped together in one class so then only one Special Ed teacher is needed in one room. I think there’s an argument that it’s not for the best for child development even though it helps the principal with staffing.

Well yes, but there's no right to "the best".

The point is that the principal is creating the restrictive environment for learning by placing 12 IEPs together.

What's restrictive about it?

They are restricting the IEP students to one specific classroom.

So, the argument is this: It is restrictive to put my "good disabled" child in a class with those other "bad disabled" children! My child is normal but those children are a problem! All the disabled children who can pass for abled should get a special classroom separate from the disabled children with disruptive disabilities! How dare they need support, too! Why must we all be lumped together when everyone knows my child is better because their disability isn't as obvious!

Which is a pretty problematic way of looking at things. Just say it plainly, you don't want your child educated with students who have disabilities, despite having a child with disabilities yourself.

Wow, you seem to have brought other baggage to this conversation.

No, I am just annoyed by the argument that some disabilities are detrimental to other students' learning, which has been brought up repeatedly in this thread. That a student needing more support somehow robs other students of support and lowers the quality of education for everyone.

If there are 18 students in a classroom. 4 are high needs, 4 moderate needs, 4 low needs, 4 no SN. Who do you think they will cater to? The high and moderate needs. They slow down the curriculum and the low needs SN kids often get ignored. We had this happen to our child. It was a hot mess of a year and we had to pay for private services, which meant pulling our child out of school multiple times a week and additional tutoring to make sure the academics were grade level.

Again, some of you have never worked in a school and need to stay in your lane. Students with IEPs have a sped teacher that works with them. Usually in an inclusion classroom the main teacher is actually freed up to spend more time with the highest performing students because the teacher that works with the students with IEPs can oftentimes fold lower performing students into their small group.

But please, continue to debate those of us that work in inclusion settings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Btw—it does seem like the IEPs are grouped together in one class so then only one Special Ed teacher is needed in one room. I think there’s an argument that it’s not for the best for child development even though it helps the principal with staffing.

Well yes, but there's no right to "the best".

The point is that the principal is creating the restrictive environment for learning by placing 12 IEPs together.

What's restrictive about it?

They are restricting the IEP students to one specific classroom.

So, the argument is this: It is restrictive to put my "good disabled" child in a class with those other "bad disabled" children! My child is normal but those children are a problem! All the disabled children who can pass for abled should get a special classroom separate from the disabled children with disruptive disabilities! How dare they need support, too! Why must we all be lumped together when everyone knows my child is better because their disability isn't as obvious!

Which is a pretty problematic way of looking at things. Just say it plainly, you don't want your child educated with students who have disabilities, despite having a child with disabilities yourself.

Wow, you seem to have brought other baggage to this conversation.

No, I am just annoyed by the argument that some disabilities are detrimental to other students' learning, which has been brought up repeatedly in this thread. That a student needing more support somehow robs other students of support and lowers the quality of education for everyone.

Why do inclusion classrooms at all then? Wouldn't it be easier if all the kids with disabilities were separated from the kids without disabilities? Then they would have all the supports right there with them! we should actually combine the IEP kids from different elementaries if they don't have the numbers for a full class. That would make it easier for the system to provide the legally required services!

Do you get why that's something a lot of parents with kids with disabilities don't want?

The problem is that the higher need disabilities take up the majority of the time and the instruction level is geared toward them so other kids' needs aren't met. If your child is a higher need, then its great for them, but not so great for kids who need social peer modeling and on grade-level academics.

This is the exact argument people use against inclusion of any type. "Having any disabled students in the class means the teacher will spend all their time with those children and bring down the level for everyone." Do you get why a lot of parents of children with disabilities might not want people using this argument?

[Anonymous]

I'm an HSM special ed teacher in the county.

To answer your most basic question: NO, not every school puts all students with IEPs in one classroom.

At the school where I teach, there is certainly an attempt to keep the numbers at or below 70/30. So 10 kids in a classroom, 3 might have IEPs (there are no 10-kid classrooms). 20 kids, 6 might have IEPs.

MOST children with IEPs in the home school model do not have disruptive behaviors. Most of them have some combo of a specific learning disability, ADHD, and (mild) autism.

Perhaps you are concerned that your child can't learn well in a chaotic classroom, or that they mimic the behaviors of others.

Here's the thing: there are so many needy kids that even if your child was in a classroom where there were no other children with an IEP they'd likely be in a classroom with ESOL kids, kids with mental health issues, kids with chronic absenteeism, kids that have suffered trauma, etc, etc. OR, a kid with a behavioral disability that hasn't been identified yet or placed in the proper setting (it can take a long time). Don't worry about who the other kids will be in your child's classroom right now. Concentrate on getting your 3-year-old the services they need right now and when the time comes to start K be involved and advocate for your kid but remember; you may raise a stink about your kid being in the "HSM," class only to have them placed in a different room with 5 or more ESOL kids that speak no English! It's public school!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Btw—it does seem like the IEPs are grouped together in one class so then only one Special Ed teacher is needed in one room. I think there’s an argument that it’s not for the best for child development even though it helps the principal with staffing.

Well yes, but there's no right to "the best".

The point is that the principal is creating the restrictive environment for learning by placing 12 IEPs together.

What's restrictive about it?

They are restricting the IEP students to one specific classroom.

So, the argument is this: It is restrictive to put my "good disabled" child in a class with those other "bad disabled" children! My child is normal but those children are a problem! All the disabled children who can pass for abled should get a special classroom separate from the disabled children with disruptive disabilities! How dare they need support, too! Why must we all be lumped together when everyone knows my child is better because their disability isn't as obvious!

Which is a pretty problematic way of looking at things. Just say it plainly, you don't want your child educated with students who have disabilities, despite having a child with disabilities yourself.

You are entirely missing the point. No one has an issue with it but depending on the issues/delays kids need to be with a diverse group of peers AND, the academics are very watered down. It's no ok to dump all the kids with IEP's in one classroom. That basically means two other classrooms don't have any kids with SN. What happens is the kids with mild SN don't get their needs met as the focus is on the higher needs kids. Also, some kids don't do well in chaotic situations.

See, here is where the ignorance of those that have not been in public school classrooms shows! EVEN IF the school did "dump," all the kids with SN's in one classroom the other classrooms would not be full of well behaved high flyers!! The other rooms would be more ESOL heavy and I guarantee they'd have kids with all kinds of issues.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Btw—it does seem like the IEPs are grouped together in one class so then only one Special Ed teacher is needed in one room. I think there’s an argument that it’s not for the best for child development even though it helps the principal with staffing.

Well yes, but there's no right to "the best".

The point is that the principal is creating the restrictive environment for learning by placing 12 IEPs together.

What's restrictive about it?

They are restricting the IEP students to one specific classroom.

So, the argument is this: It is restrictive to put my "good disabled" child in a class with those other "bad disabled" children! My child is normal but those children are a problem! All the disabled children who can pass for abled should get a special classroom separate from the disabled children with disruptive disabilities! How dare they need support, too! Why must we all be lumped together when everyone knows my child is better because their disability isn't as obvious!

Which is a pretty problematic way of looking at things. Just say it plainly, you don't want your child educated with students who have disabilities, despite having a child with disabilities yourself.

Wow, you seem to have brought other baggage to this conversation.

No, I am just annoyed by the argument that some disabilities are detrimental to other students' learning, which has been brought up repeatedly in this thread. That a student needing more support somehow robs other students of support and lowers the quality of education for everyone.

Why do inclusion classrooms at all then? Wouldn't it be easier if all the kids with disabilities were separated from the kids without disabilities? Then they would have all the supports right there with them! we should actually combine the IEP kids from different elementaries if they don't have the numbers for a full class. That would make it easier for the system to provide the legally required services!

Do you get why that's something a lot of parents with kids with disabilities don't want?

The problem is that the higher need disabilities take up the majority of the time and the instruction level is geared toward them so other kids' needs aren't met. If your child is a higher need, then its great for them, but not so great for kids who need social peer modeling and on grade-level academics.

This is the exact argument people use against inclusion of any type. "Having any disabled students in the class means the teacher will spend all their time with those children and bring down the level for everyone." Do you get why a lot of parents of children with disabilities might not want people using this argument?

No one is arguing that. The discussion is is it ok for all kids with IEP's to be put in one classroom out of 3/4 classes. The correct answer is No, but it's happening anyway. The kids should be mixed up in each of the classrooms.

What we are saying is that out of the 12 kids, they should be mixed in with 3-4 in each classroom vs. all 12 being in one classroom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Btw—it does seem like the IEPs are grouped together in one class so then only one Special Ed teacher is needed in one room. I think there’s an argument that it’s not for the best for child development even though it helps the principal with staffing.

Well yes, but there's no right to "the best".

The point is that the principal is creating the restrictive environment for learning by placing 12 IEPs together.

What's restrictive about it?

They are restricting the IEP students to one specific classroom.

So, the argument is this: It is restrictive to put my "good disabled" child in a class with those other "bad disabled" children! My child is normal but those children are a problem! All the disabled children who can pass for abled should get a special classroom separate from the disabled children with disruptive disabilities! How dare they need support, too! Why must we all be lumped together when everyone knows my child is better because their disability isn't as obvious!

Which is a pretty problematic way of looking at things. Just say it plainly, you don't want your child educated with students who have disabilities, despite having a child with disabilities yourself.

You are entirely missing the point. No one has an issue with it but depending on the issues/delays kids need to be with a diverse group of peers AND, the academics are very watered down. It's no ok to dump all the kids with IEP's in one classroom. That basically means two other classrooms don't have any kids with SN. What happens is the kids with mild SN don't get their needs met as the focus is on the higher needs kids. Also, some kids don't do well in chaotic situations.

See, here is where the ignorance of those that have not been in public school classrooms shows! EVEN IF the school did "dump," all the kids with SN's in one classroom the other classrooms would not be full of well behaved high flyers!! The other rooms would be more ESOL heavy and I guarantee they'd have kids with all kinds of issues.

The discussion is about kids with IEP's. Of course not all kids with SN, behavioral problems or ESOL are not in that category but that's not the point of the discussion. The point is that they are creating a special education classroom for specific kids regardless of their needs and they aren't getting an inclusion class or it may not be the right classroom/best fit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Btw—it does seem like the IEPs are grouped together in one class so then only one Special Ed teacher is needed in one room. I think there’s an argument that it’s not for the best for child development even though it helps the principal with staffing.

Well yes, but there's no right to "the best".

The point is that the principal is creating the restrictive environment for learning by placing 12 IEPs together.

What's restrictive about it?

They are restricting the IEP students to one specific classroom.

So, the argument is this: It is restrictive to put my "good disabled" child in a class with those other "bad disabled" children! My child is normal but those children are a problem! All the disabled children who can pass for abled should get a special classroom separate from the disabled children with disruptive disabilities! How dare they need support, too! Why must we all be lumped together when everyone knows my child is better because their disability isn't as obvious!

Which is a pretty problematic way of looking at things. Just say it plainly, you don't want your child educated with students who have disabilities, despite having a child with disabilities yourself.

Wow, you seem to have brought other baggage to this conversation.

No, I am just annoyed by the argument that some disabilities are detrimental to other students' learning, which has been brought up repeatedly in this thread. That a student needing more support somehow robs other students of support and lowers the quality of education for everyone.

Why do inclusion classrooms at all then? Wouldn't it be easier if all the kids with disabilities were separated from the kids without disabilities? Then they would have all the supports right there with them! we should actually combine the IEP kids from different elementaries if they don't have the numbers for a full class. That would make it easier for the system to provide the legally required services!

Do you get why that's something a lot of parents with kids with disabilities don't want?

The problem is that the higher need disabilities take up the majority of the time and the instruction level is geared toward them so other kids' needs aren't met. If your child is a higher need, then its great for them, but not so great for kids who need social peer modeling and on grade-level academics.

This is the exact argument people use against inclusion of any type. "Having any disabled students in the class means the teacher will spend all their time with those children and bring down the level for everyone." Do you get why a lot of parents of children with disabilities might not want people using this argument?

No one is arguing that. The discussion is is it ok for all kids with IEP's to be put in one classroom out of 3/4 classes. The correct answer is No, but it's happening anyway. The kids should be mixed up in each of the classrooms.

What we are saying is that out of the 12 kids, they should be mixed in with 3-4 in each classroom vs. all 12 being in one classroom.

Who is we? And who are you/we to say what's okay and whats not, compared to the people doing the work with specialized knowledge re: special education?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Btw—it does seem like the IEPs are grouped together in one class so then only one Special Ed teacher is needed in one room. I think there’s an argument that it’s not for the best for child development even though it helps the principal with staffing.

Well yes, but there's no right to "the best".

The point is that the principal is creating the restrictive environment for learning by placing 12 IEPs together.

What's restrictive about it?

They are restricting the IEP students to one specific classroom.

So, the argument is this: It is restrictive to put my "good disabled" child in a class with those other "bad disabled" children! My child is normal but those children are a problem! All the disabled children who can pass for abled should get a special classroom separate from the disabled children with disruptive disabilities! How dare they need support, too! Why must we all be lumped together when everyone knows my child is better because their disability isn't as obvious!

Which is a pretty problematic way of looking at things. Just say it plainly, you don't want your child educated with students who have disabilities, despite having a child with disabilities yourself.

Wow, you seem to have brought other baggage to this conversation.

No, I am just annoyed by the argument that some disabilities are detrimental to other students' learning, which has been brought up repeatedly in this thread. That a student needing more support somehow robs other students of support and lowers the quality of education for everyone.

Why do inclusion classrooms at all then? Wouldn't it be easier if all the kids with disabilities were separated from the kids without disabilities? Then they would have all the supports right there with them! we should actually combine the IEP kids from different elementaries if they don't have the numbers for a full class. That would make it easier for the system to provide the legally required services!

Do you get why that's something a lot of parents with kids with disabilities don't want?

The problem is that the higher need disabilities take up the majority of the time and the instruction level is geared toward them so other kids' needs aren't met. If your child is a higher need, then its great for them, but not so great for kids who need social peer modeling and on grade-level academics.

This is the exact argument people use against inclusion of any type. "Having any disabled students in the class means the teacher will spend all their time with those children and bring down the level for everyone." Do you get why a lot of parents of children with disabilities might not want people using this argument?

No one is arguing that. The discussion is is it ok for all kids with IEP's to be put in one classroom out of 3/4 classes. The correct answer is No, but it's happening anyway. The kids should be mixed up in each of the classrooms.

What we are saying is that out of the 12 kids, they should be mixed in with 3-4 in each classroom vs. all 12 being in one classroom.

Who is we? And who are you/we to say what's okay and whats not, compared to the people doing the work with specialized knowledge re: special education?

Some of us with experience in the schools are saying it too.