Why do donut hole families

[Anonymous]

OOS tuition is reasonably cheap for schools in New Mexico, Utah, the Dakotas, Wyoming and Pennsylvania (for the PASSHE schools, not PSU/Pitt/Temple). Lots of merit aid too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A lot of us got into the financial position to be in the donut hole by doing "everything right" being top students all through school, getting into a highly selective college, graduating, working for years to move up the corporate ladder, saving for college every month since our kids got out of daycare, provide the enrichment/tutoring/house in a top school district that allowed our kids to do well enough to get into a top college. But now we can't afford to send them to the top college on the level that we attended.

I know, cry me a river. It's such a deeply privileged sob story.

This. My college was expensive at about $100K for 4 years. To send my kid there now, it's $400K.

You are not the sharpest tool if you send your kid to a school that costs 100k/yr. This is like buying a Birkin bag and complaining how expensive handbags are these days.

I agree, only idiots send their kids to Stanford

Well they are idiots if they can't afford Stanford. Taking out $200K in loans for an undergrad degree is not smart, no matter where it is. Someone smart enough to get into Stanford should understand that

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The donut hole is a myth that poor savers tell themselves. Decisions have consequences. Buying a larger house or nicer car - spending more for vacations and fancy summer camps are all decisions.

College costs are not unexpected. You have nearly two decades to save.

Plus, you don’t have to save for the most expensive college. All of you who consider yourselves middle class- that means kids stay at home and go to college or they go to an instate college. That is what middle class parents have done for generations. Paying the full amount for high end tuitions for private schools are for rich families not yours.

That's not true. College costs have increased so much families can't hope to deny themselves every luxury to meet that cost. We're fortunate that we can afford any college, but most people can't, even if they tighten their belt.

Please don't be so ignorant and smug.

But they can afford MOST colleges. So instead of complaining they can't afford the most expensive ones, they should focus on the hundreds of great colleges they can afford and recognized how privileged that is.

I can't afford a $100K car, so I don't complain about it, I don't buy it, I find a Honda/Toyota for $25-30K that is a great car and buy it.

Which is why kids are going to SEC schools

there are many options besides SEC schools. But yes, choose whatever you like best that you can afford. There are many options out there for good students. You may need to step down just "1 tier" but your smart kid will still get an amazing education. It's what they do while at college that matters.

What are those options?

Going to Salisbury you mean?

NP. Correct. Or Towson or UMBC.

Exactly so what donut hole families are complaining about is if one of us just quit our job we could send our kid to a T50 school with FA, or go to Towson/UMBC/Salisbury/

It literally made more sense for me to quit my job for 4 years. Isn't that silly.

thanks COVID for being laid off, it worked out. So we now had a salary of $120 and we got FA.

That's why many never go off welfare because working doesn't make sense.

They could also go to a small private college that offers merit aid (such as Goucher) or CC -> 4-year. If they have a lot of AP credits they could plan to graduate a year early from college.

or go to a SEC school or get a sports scholarship, easier than merit. My kid was never getting merit aid because he only had a 3.8. My kids are dyslexic so yea no Excelleration.

or quit your job for 4 years and get aid at a top school

Sure got to CC... becuase you make too much money... that's insane.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
TAXES!!!! This is not 80k/ year extra.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it’s insane that our $250K family did not get 1 penny FA for a $60K/year school.

We were also not always $250K family, we were closer to $160/year, then $180K for a few years. Plus the $250 includes one of us having 2 jobs.

My H is a cop and I was a GS-13 most our lives so we could not really save that much.

Well if you still lived as if you earned $160K/year, you could cash flow the $80K/year with the extra. You could have chosen to save the increases in income for college (or at least part of it).

Ok, so $40K/year. Point is you made choices with the extra income. Whatever is right for your family. However, you were living on $160K. So you could have saved $10K/year, then $20K/year then up to $40K/year. What you do with it is your choice, but it does not entitle you to a free education at a T20 school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The donut hole is a myth that poor savers tell themselves. Decisions have consequences. Buying a larger house or nicer car - spending more for vacations and fancy summer camps are all decisions.

College costs are not unexpected. You have nearly two decades to save.

Plus, you don’t have to save for the most expensive college. All of you who consider yourselves middle class- that means kids stay at home and go to college or they go to an instate college. That is what middle class parents have done for generations. Paying the full amount for high end tuitions for private schools are for rich families not yours.

But that's the problem, college expenses have become exploitative for most family budgets. As PP suggests, your entire adult life you're now supposed to be either saving for college or paying off your loans. It's basically become a third layer of taxation in addition to state and federal.

College costs are INDEFENSIBLE here in the US. No other country in the world has such expensive university education, and yet many have excellent institutions. It IS exploitative.

It's like the cost of healthcare in this country. It does not need to be that high! Other wealthy nations do it for much less.

But here capitalism rules, the federal government has very little regulatory control compared to other countries... and we are left with this. Very little upward mobility in an erstwhile upwardly mobile country.

So you're all right where universities want you, suckers: bickering amongst yourselves, and forgetting that you are all being exploited BY THEM.

+1

Only in the US would people compare a university education with a luxury car.

Uh huh. In Germany they don’t have a “Lambo” of education. Everyone goes to the Honda of education and it’s fine.

+10000

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it’s insane that our $250K family did not get 1 penny FA for a $60K/year school.

We were also not always $250K family, we were closer to $160/year, then $180K for a few years. Plus the $250 includes one of us having 2 jobs.

My H is a cop and I was a GS-13 most our lives so we could not really save that much.

Well if you still lived as if you earned $160K/year, you could cash flow the $80K/year with the extra. You could have chosen to save the increases in income for college (or at least part of it).

We do still love the $160k/year life.

$250-$160= $90K - taxes, SS, etc = $45K/year.

Two kids in college = $40K/year/kid = $80K. So we are still in the hole $35K/year.

Well obviously you can’t afford to cash flow college. Who can?? That’s why “college fund” is a term that everyone in America understands what it means.

So explain to me how I would have "saved for college" when our HHI was $120? because it was not $250 our whole lives it literally took 25 years to get to that. $160 wasn't much better becasue we moved out of our apartment and had day care.

So are you saying just don't buy a house that's a luxury? Don't get promotions because you can't get FA? explain to me how I sace making $120 or even $160?

You’re saying that you were saving $0/mo for college when you were making $120k? Not even an extra $50/mo in a 529?? 😮

[Anonymous]

Everyone wants the Instagram version of college now. These amenities are not cheap or free to provide.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
TAXES!!!! This is not 80k/ year extra.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it’s insane that our $250K family did not get 1 penny FA for a $60K/year school.

We were also not always $250K family, we were closer to $160/year, then $180K for a few years. Plus the $250 includes one of us having 2 jobs.

My H is a cop and I was a GS-13 most our lives so we could not really save that much.

Well if you still lived as if you earned $160K/year, you could cash flow the $80K/year with the extra. You could have chosen to save the increases in income for college (or at least part of it).

Ok, so $40K/year. Point is you made choices with the extra income. Whatever is right for your family. However, you were living on $160K. So you could have saved $10K/year, then $20K/year then up to $40K/year. What you do with it is your choice, but it does not entitle you to a free education at a T20 school.

Great so I make 160 to 250 happened over 6 years. That is $60K for 2 kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The donut hole is a myth that poor savers tell themselves. Decisions have consequences. Buying a larger house or nicer car - spending more for vacations and fancy summer camps are all decisions.

College costs are not unexpected. You have nearly two decades to save.

Plus, you don’t have to save for the most expensive college. All of you who consider yourselves middle class- that means kids stay at home and go to college or they go to an instate college. That is what middle class parents have done for generations. Paying the full amount for high end tuitions for private schools are for rich families not yours.

But that's the problem, college expenses have become exploitative for most family budgets. As PP suggests, your entire adult life you're now supposed to be either saving for college or paying off your loans. It's basically become a third layer of taxation in addition to state and federal.

College costs are INDEFENSIBLE here in the US. No other country in the world has such expensive university education, and yet many have excellent institutions. It IS exploitative.

It's like the cost of healthcare in this country. It does not need to be that high! Other wealthy nations do it for much less.

But here capitalism rules, the federal government has very little regulatory control compared to other countries... and we are left with this. Very little upward mobility in an erstwhile upwardly mobile country.

So you're all right where universities want you, suckers: bickering amongst yourselves, and forgetting that you are all being exploited BY THEM.

+1

Only in the US would people compare a university education with a luxury car.

Because only in the US do people feel entitled to the tippy top ranked universities for their kids, no matter what.
Most of Europe is not attending Cambridge or Oxford for undergrad. They are attending a nearby local university. Their kid was "tracked for college" sometime around 12/13 yo and if they do well on the testing that day, they may not be eligible for a STEM major 5 years later. Nobody is saying you can't get an education. We literally have hundreds of great choices, many offering merit. There are ways to attend college for minimal costs, you just wont attend a Top tier university. Just like much of Europe does not attend a Top tier university for their undergrad.

Perhaps what you are not quite grasping is that these lower-tier private schools with great aid or public universities in many states are still going to cost families $30k per year! And you act like that’s affordable! There really aren’t “hundreds” of great choices for most families- it is often community college and then maybe two years at a public in state if there is one within commuting distance. Their choices are much more limited than you insinuate.

And for the record, we ARE saving and hope to have the amount to cover 4 years of in-state for our two kids, but we are very fortunate to have jobs, and no significant medical expenses or special needs, that allow us to save a decent amount.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it’s insane that our $250K family did not get 1 penny FA for a $60K/year school.

We were also not always $250K family, we were closer to $160/year, then $180K for a few years. Plus the $250 includes one of us having 2 jobs.

My H is a cop and I was a GS-13 most our lives so we could not really save that much.

Well if you still lived as if you earned $160K/year, you could cash flow the $80K/year with the extra. You could have chosen to save the increases in income for college (or at least part of it).

We do still love the $160k/year life.

$250-$160= $90K - taxes, SS, etc = $45K/year.

Two kids in college = $40K/year/kid = $80K. So we are still in the hole $35K/year.

Well obviously you can’t afford to cash flow college. Who can?? That’s why “college fund” is a term that everyone in America understands what it means.

So explain to me how I would have "saved for college" when our HHI was $120? because it was not $250 our whole lives it literally took 25 years to get to that. $160 wasn't much better becasue we moved out of our apartment and had day care.

So are you saying just don't buy a house that's a luxury? Don't get promotions because you can't get FA? explain to me how I sace making $120 or even $160?

You’re saying that you were saving $0/mo for college when you were making $120k? Not even an extra $50/mo in a 529?? 😮

I was saving for a house. I lived in a group home. then I bought a home with 20% down.

Did somebody gift you a home, do you not know how this works in the US? You think i owned a house and had kids at 1st?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The donut hole is a myth that poor savers tell themselves. Decisions have consequences. Buying a larger house or nicer car - spending more for vacations and fancy summer camps are all decisions.

College costs are not unexpected. You have nearly two decades to save.

Plus, you don’t have to save for the most expensive college. All of you who consider yourselves middle class- that means kids stay at home and go to college or they go to an instate college. That is what middle class parents have done for generations. Paying the full amount for high end tuitions for private schools are for rich families not yours.

That's not true. College costs have increased so much families can't hope to deny themselves every luxury to meet that cost. We're fortunate that we can afford any college, but most people can't, even if they tighten their belt.

Please don't be so ignorant and smug.

But they can afford MOST colleges. So instead of complaining they can't afford the most expensive ones, they should focus on the hundreds of great colleges they can afford and recognized how privileged that is.

I can't afford a $100K car, so I don't complain about it, I don't buy it, I find a Honda/Toyota for $25-30K that is a great car and buy it.

Which is why kids are going to SEC schools

there are many options besides SEC schools. But yes, choose whatever you like best that you can afford. There are many options out there for good students. You may need to step down just "1 tier" but your smart kid will still get an amazing education. It's what they do while at college that matters.

What are those options?

Going to Salisbury you mean?

NP. Correct. Or Towson or UMBC.

Exactly so what donut hole families are complaining about is if one of us just quit our job we could send our kid to a T50 school with FA, or go to Towson/UMBC/Salisbury/

It literally made more sense for me to quit my job for 4 years. Isn't that silly.

thanks COVID for being laid off, it worked out. So we now had a salary of $120 and we got FA.

That's why many never go off welfare because working doesn't make sense.

They could also go to a small private college that offers merit aid (such as Goucher) or CC -> 4-year. If they have a lot of AP credits they could plan to graduate a year early from college.

Goucher is $50K.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it’s insane that our $250K family did not get 1 penny FA for a $60K/year school.

We were also not always $250K family, we were closer to $160/year, then $180K for a few years. Plus the $250 includes one of us having 2 jobs.

My H is a cop and I was a GS-13 most our lives so we could not really save that much.

Well if you still lived as if you earned $160K/year, you could cash flow the $80K/year with the extra. You could have chosen to save the increases in income for college (or at least part of it).

We do still love the $160k/year life.

$250-$160= $90K - taxes, SS, etc = $45K/year.

Two kids in college = $40K/year/kid = $80K. So we are still in the hole $35K/year.

Well obviously you can’t afford to cash flow college. Who can?? That’s why “college fund” is a term that everyone in America understands what it means.

So explain to me how I would have "saved for college" when our HHI was $120? because it was not $250 our whole lives it literally took 25 years to get to that. $160 wasn't much better becasue we moved out of our apartment and had day care.

So are you saying just don't buy a house that's a luxury? Don't get promotions because you can't get FA? explain to me how I sace making $120 or even $160?

You’re saying that you were saving $0/mo for college when you were making $120k? Not even an extra $50/mo in a 529?? 😮

I was saving for a house. I lived in a group home. then I bought a home with 20% down.

Did somebody gift you a home, do you not know how this works in the US? You think i owned a house and had kids at 1st?

Why weren’t you putting away babysitting money for a house down payment during your teenage years? That’s what most of us were doing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The donut hole is a myth that poor savers tell themselves. Decisions have consequences. Buying a larger house or nicer car - spending more for vacations and fancy summer camps are all decisions.

College costs are not unexpected. You have nearly two decades to save.

Plus, you don’t have to save for the most expensive college. All of you who consider yourselves middle class- that means kids stay at home and go to college or they go to an instate college. That is what middle class parents have done for generations. Paying the full amount for high end tuitions for private schools are for rich families not yours.

That's not true. College costs have increased so much families can't hope to deny themselves every luxury to meet that cost. We're fortunate that we can afford any college, but most people can't, even if they tighten their belt.

Please don't be so ignorant and smug.

But they can afford MOST colleges. So instead of complaining they can't afford the most expensive ones, they should focus on the hundreds of great colleges they can afford and recognized how privileged that is.

I can't afford a $100K car, so I don't complain about it, I don't buy it, I find a Honda/Toyota for $25-30K that is a great car and buy it.

Which is why kids are going to SEC schools

there are many options besides SEC schools. But yes, choose whatever you like best that you can afford. There are many options out there for good students. You may need to step down just "1 tier" but your smart kid will still get an amazing education. It's what they do while at college that matters.

What are those options?

Going to Salisbury you mean?

NP. Correct. Or Towson or UMBC.

Exactly so what donut hole families are complaining about is if one of us just quit our job we could send our kid to a T50 school with FA, or go to Towson/UMBC/Salisbury/

It literally made more sense for me to quit my job for 4 years. Isn't that silly.

thanks COVID for being laid off, it worked out. So we now had a salary of $120 and we got FA.

That's why many never go off welfare because working doesn't make sense.

They could also go to a small private college that offers merit aid (such as Goucher) or CC -> 4-year. If they have a lot of AP credits they could plan to graduate a year early from college.

Goucher is $50K.

With merit aid it’s $30k

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
TAXES!!!! This is not 80k/ year extra.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it’s insane that our $250K family did not get 1 penny FA for a $60K/year school.

We were also not always $250K family, we were closer to $160/year, then $180K for a few years. Plus the $250 includes one of us having 2 jobs.

My H is a cop and I was a GS-13 most our lives so we could not really save that much.

Well if you still lived as if you earned $160K/year, you could cash flow the $80K/year with the extra. You could have chosen to save the increases in income for college (or at least part of it).

Ok, so $40K/year. Point is you made choices with the extra income. Whatever is right for your family. However, you were living on $160K. So you could have saved $10K/year, then $20K/year then up to $40K/year. What you do with it is your choice, but it does not entitle you to a free education at a T20 school.

Great so I make 160 to 250 happened over 6 years. That is $60K for 2 kids.

Plus the $40K extra you still have while they are in college. So you find merit (hint: it's not that hard to do, just step down a tier or two, it's out there if you really want college to be more affordable) or you do CC and then transfer to a 4 year. But with a kid working ($10K/year), the extra $40K and the $30K saved, you can find a school for $20-25K/year if you want. So you haven't saved enough for a tippy top university, so that means your kid doesn't attend one. Instead they attend what you can afford, or you choose to take major loans at high interest rates and burden yourself for decades to come. I would not take the loans---I'd find something affordable. Best gift you can give your kid

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The donut hole is a myth that poor savers tell themselves. Decisions have consequences. Buying a larger house or nicer car - spending more for vacations and fancy summer camps are all decisions.

College costs are not unexpected. You have nearly two decades to save.

Plus, you don’t have to save for the most expensive college. All of you who consider yourselves middle class- that means kids stay at home and go to college or they go to an instate college. That is what middle class parents have done for generations. Paying the full amount for high end tuitions for private schools are for rich families not yours.

I'm sorry but this statement is out of touch (and I'm not donut hole). How can you lump everyone (people you do not know) into a category that assumes they recklessly indulged. Sure, there are people like this - but to assume anyone without resources to pay for college is in this category is ludicrous. Most of this country cannot afford to pay for private universities without taking out loans.

This the way it has always been. Now people think they are entitled to it.

This! My parents couldn’t afford a T50 private school when I graduated HS in 2005. I also didn’t get anywhere approaching a full ride anywhere. So I went to a state school. So freaking what??

Same for me in 1994. Got a decent scholarship for an out of state flagship that brought tuition down below instate. Guess where I went? Not the T25 schools that I desperately wanted. My parents were hardcore savers, but not high earners and had other kids to think about, too. That’s just how it goes.

And I’m sure that turned out fine for you.

Probably depends on how you’re measuring.