Why do donut hole families

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some families who seem to complain about this are people who had a fancy education but chose not to take a private sector job in DC for the fed/non-profit lifestyle and are now aggrieved that schools won't make up the difference for them because they want to l live an UMC lifestyle they assume their education entitles them to - this comes up in the college and private school threads. We make trade offs in our lives only each family can figure out what works for them - there is alot of merit aid sloshing around for high performing students just a few rungs down the ladder - no one is entitled to go to any school they want.

So true. I’ve noticed that the majority of the time, those who complain went to fancy schools themselves. As someone who went to Big State U I find it so confusing—the school I graduated from costs under $10k/yr in-state still. Not exactly crisis levels.

Big state U in Virginia is 40k a year.

Tuition. I said tuition.

Now if you don’t like Virginia? Don’t live there. I don’t.

My kid can go to VT and just pay tuition and ignore everything else?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The donut hole is a myth that poor savers tell themselves. Decisions have consequences. Buying a larger house or nicer car - spending more for vacations and fancy summer camps are all decisions.

College costs are not unexpected. You have nearly two decades to save.

Plus, you don’t have to save for the most expensive college. All of you who consider yourselves middle class- that means kids stay at home and go to college or they go to an instate college. That is what middle class parents have done for generations. Paying the full amount for high end tuitions for private schools are for rich families not yours.

I'm sorry but this statement is out of touch (and I'm not donut hole). How can you lump everyone (people you do not know) into a category that assumes they recklessly indulged. Sure, there are people like this - but to assume anyone without resources to pay for college is in this category is ludicrous. Most of this country cannot afford to pay for private universities without taking out loans.

This the way it has always been. Now people think they are entitled to it.

This! My parents couldn’t afford a T50 private school when I graduated HS in 2005. I also didn’t get anywhere approaching a full ride anywhere. So I went to a state school. So freaking what??

Same for me in 1994. Got a decent scholarship for an out of state flagship that brought tuition down below instate. Guess where I went? Not the T25 schools that I desperately wanted. My parents were hardcore savers, but not high earners and had other kids to think about, too. That’s just how it goes.

And I’m sure that turned out fine for you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some families who seem to complain about this are people who had a fancy education but chose not to take a private sector job in DC for the fed/non-profit lifestyle and are now aggrieved that schools won't make up the difference for them because they want to l live an UMC lifestyle they assume their education entitles them to - this comes up in the college and private school threads. We make trade offs in our lives only each family can figure out what works for them - there is alot of merit aid sloshing around for high performing students just a few rungs down the ladder - no one is entitled to go to any school they want.

So true. I’ve noticed that the majority of the time, those who complain went to fancy schools themselves. As someone who went to Big State U I find it so confusing—the school I graduated from costs under $10k/yr in-state still. Not exactly crisis levels.

Big state U in Virginia is 40k a year.

Tuition. I said tuition.

Now if you don’t like Virginia? Don’t live there. I don’t.

My kid can go to VT and just pay tuition and ignore everything else?

I said my Big State U tuition is under $10k. UVA’s tuition is not $40k. But if you don’t like your in-state options I suggest moving to Georgia.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some families who seem to complain about this are people who had a fancy education but chose not to take a private sector job in DC for the fed/non-profit lifestyle and are now aggrieved that schools won't make up the difference for them because they want to l live an UMC lifestyle they assume their education entitles them to - this comes up in the college and private school threads. We make trade offs in our lives only each family can figure out what works for them - there is alot of merit aid sloshing around for high performing students just a few rungs down the ladder - no one is entitled to go to any school they want.

So true. I’ve noticed that the majority of the time, those who complain went to fancy schools themselves. As someone who went to Big State U I find it so confusing—the school I graduated from costs under $10k/yr in-state still. Not exactly crisis levels.

I think it’s the opposite.

I think it’s Big U graduates with normal but not great jobs.

Now their kids with 3.8 HPA’s are getting denied and they get into Top 50 schools with no FA.

What do you think a “normal but not great” job pays?

We both make about $80K/year for most our lives.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Our earnings would be lower elsewhere. It is also not realistic to think we could just move somewhere else and find employment. You seem to think this income implies a luxury lifestyle in NYC - we live in an outer borough, commute an hour to work in public transport, and send our kids to NYC public schools. Some people live in NY because they come from NY. I think you are very invested in the narrative that all donut hole families are whiners or have done something wrong. This makes you seem very self-righteous.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:


If we earn 225k in NYC, do you really think that we can save enough for private college by skipping luxury cars? We don't even have a frigging car! Maybe if we lived in Nebraska.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The donut hole is a myth that poor savers tell themselves. Decisions have consequences. Buying a larger house or nicer car - spending more for vacations and fancy summer camps are all decisions.

College costs are not unexpected. You have nearly two decades to save.

Plus, you don’t have to save for the most expensive college. All of you who consider yourselves middle class- that means kids stay at home and go to college or they go to an instate college. That is what middle class parents have done for generations. Paying the full amount for high end tuitions for private schools are for rich families not yours.

That's not true. College costs have increased so much families can't hope to deny themselves every luxury to meet that cost. We're fortunate that we can afford any college, but most people can't, even if they tighten their belt.

Please don't be so ignorant and smug.

Once again, you choose to live in NYC. I know it's expensive and $225K isn't much there. But that is a choice you make. You could job search and move to somewhere with a lower COL (literally anywhere except SF/Boston would be less)

Are you New Yorkers being charged extra money to use the quoting features incorrectly? And how much more? Can we set up a GoFundMe for you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The donut hole is a myth that poor savers tell themselves. Decisions have consequences. Buying a larger house or nicer car - spending more for vacations and fancy summer camps are all decisions.

College costs are not unexpected. You have nearly two decades to save.

Plus, you don’t have to save for the most expensive college. All of you who consider yourselves middle class- that means kids stay at home and go to college or they go to an instate college. That is what middle class parents have done for generations. Paying the full amount for high end tuitions for private schools are for rich families not yours.

That's not true. College costs have increased so much families can't hope to deny themselves every luxury to meet that cost. We're fortunate that we can afford any college, but most people can't, even if they tighten their belt.

Please don't be so ignorant and smug.

But they can afford MOST colleges. So instead of complaining they can't afford the most expensive ones, they should focus on the hundreds of great colleges they can afford and recognized how privileged that is.

I can't afford a $100K car, so I don't complain about it, I don't buy it, I find a Honda/Toyota for $25-30K that is a great car and buy it.

Which is why kids are going to SEC schools

there are many options besides SEC schools. But yes, choose whatever you like best that you can afford. There are many options out there for good students. You may need to step down just "1 tier" but your smart kid will still get an amazing education. It's what they do while at college that matters.

What are those options?

Going to Salisbury you mean?

NP. Correct. Or Towson or UMBC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it’s insane that our $250K family did not get 1 penny FA for a $60K/year school.

We were also not always $250K family, we were closer to $160/year, then $180K for a few years. Plus the $250 includes one of us having 2 jobs.

My H is a cop and I was a GS-13 most our lives so we could not really save that much.

Well if you still lived as if you earned $160K/year, you could cash flow the $80K/year with the extra. You could have chosen to save the increases in income for college (or at least part of it).

We do still love the $160k/year life.

$250-$160= $90K - taxes, SS, etc = $45K/year.

Two kids in college = $40K/year/kid = $80K. So we are still in the hole $35K/year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some families who seem to complain about this are people who had a fancy education but chose not to take a private sector job in DC for the fed/non-profit lifestyle and are now aggrieved that schools won't make up the difference for them because they want to l live an UMC lifestyle they assume their education entitles them to - this comes up in the college and private school threads. We make trade offs in our lives only each family can figure out what works for them - there is alot of merit aid sloshing around for high performing students just a few rungs down the ladder - no one is entitled to go to any school they want.

So true. I’ve noticed that the majority of the time, those who complain went to fancy schools themselves. As someone who went to Big State U I find it so confusing—the school I graduated from costs under $10k/yr in-state still. Not exactly crisis levels.

Big state U in Virginia is 40k a year.

Tuition. I said tuition.

Now if you don’t like Virginia? Don’t live there. I don’t.

My kid can go to VT and just pay tuition and ignore everything else?

Some kids make up the difference by being an RA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Our earnings would be lower elsewhere. It is also not realistic to think we could just move somewhere else and find employment. You seem to think this income implies a luxury lifestyle in NYC - we live in an outer borough, commute an hour to work in public transport, and send our kids to NYC public schools. Some people live in NY because they come from NY. I think you are very invested in the narrative that all donut hole families are whiners or have done something wrong. This makes you seem very self-righteous.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:


If we earn 225k in NYC, do you really think that we can save enough for private college by skipping luxury cars? We don't even have a frigging car! Maybe if we lived in Nebraska.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The donut hole is a myth that poor savers tell themselves. Decisions have consequences. Buying a larger house or nicer car - spending more for vacations and fancy summer camps are all decisions.

College costs are not unexpected. You have nearly two decades to save.

Plus, you don’t have to save for the most expensive college. All of you who consider yourselves middle class- that means kids stay at home and go to college or they go to an instate college. That is what middle class parents have done for generations. Paying the full amount for high end tuitions for private schools are for rich families not yours.

That's not true. College costs have increased so much families can't hope to deny themselves every luxury to meet that cost. We're fortunate that we can afford any college, but most people can't, even if they tighten their belt.

Please don't be so ignorant and smug.

Once again, you choose to live in NYC. I know it's expensive and $225K isn't much there. But that is a choice you make. You could job search and move to somewhere with a lower COL (literally anywhere except SF/Boston would be less)

I want to be very clear. I do think you have all done something wrong. And that something is to accept your lot in life. You think there’s such a thing as luxury housing and luxury cars, but you don’t believe there’s such a thing as luxury education and luxury zip codes. Well, you’re wrong. Just like all the luxury goods you and I both can’t afford, we will make do with what we can afford. Don’t whine. Figure out what’s in your budget. Just like you would for an apartment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Our earnings would be lower elsewhere. It is also not realistic to think we could just move somewhere else and find employment. You seem to think this income implies a luxury lifestyle in NYC - we live in an outer borough, commute an hour to work in public transport, and send our kids to NYC public schools. Some people live in NY because they come from NY. I think you are very invested in the narrative that all donut hole families are whiners or have done something wrong. This makes you seem very self-righteous.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:


If we earn 225k in NYC, do you really think that we can save enough for private college by skipping luxury cars? We don't even have a frigging car! Maybe if we lived in Nebraska.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The donut hole is a myth that poor savers tell themselves. Decisions have consequences. Buying a larger house or nicer car - spending more for vacations and fancy summer camps are all decisions.

College costs are not unexpected. You have nearly two decades to save.

Plus, you don’t have to save for the most expensive college. All of you who consider yourselves middle class- that means kids stay at home and go to college or they go to an instate college. That is what middle class parents have done for generations. Paying the full amount for high end tuitions for private schools are for rich families not yours.

That's not true. College costs have increased so much families can't hope to deny themselves every luxury to meet that cost. We're fortunate that we can afford any college, but most people can't, even if they tighten their belt.

Please don't be so ignorant and smug.

Once again, you choose to live in NYC. I know it's expensive and $225K isn't much there. But that is a choice you make. You could job search and move to somewhere with a lower COL (literally anywhere except SF/Boston would be less)

I don't live where I grew up. I choose to move elsewhere. I know how expensive NYC is---it's ridiculous. However, the fact is you still choose to stay there. That's a choice you made and that means you have to adjust to live with the choices. However, you live in NY state, where there are how many SUNY schools? All very affordable schools, most ~ $25K, all in. So if anything, you have more good instate schools to choose from than any other state. Kid gets a job and earns $10K/year to contribute to college, takes $5.5K federal loans, and parents contribute $10-15K per year. An affordable way to do college with minimal debt. You could even do it for less by choosing a school that you commute to from home, if that's what fits your family finances.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it’s insane that our $250K family did not get 1 penny FA for a $60K/year school.

We were also not always $250K family, we were closer to $160/year, then $180K for a few years. Plus the $250 includes one of us having 2 jobs.

My H is a cop and I was a GS-13 most our lives so we could not really save that much.

Well if you still lived as if you earned $160K/year, you could cash flow the $80K/year with the extra. You could have chosen to save the increases in income for college (or at least part of it).

We do still love the $160k/year life.

$250-$160= $90K - taxes, SS, etc = $45K/year.

Two kids in college = $40K/year/kid = $80K. So we are still in the hole $35K/year.

Well obviously you can’t afford to cash flow college. Who can?? That’s why “college fund” is a term that everyone in America understands what it means.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The donut hole is a myth that poor savers tell themselves. Decisions have consequences. Buying a larger house or nicer car - spending more for vacations and fancy summer camps are all decisions.

College costs are not unexpected. You have nearly two decades to save.

Plus, you don’t have to save for the most expensive college. All of you who consider yourselves middle class- that means kids stay at home and go to college or they go to an instate college. That is what middle class parents have done for generations. Paying the full amount for high end tuitions for private schools are for rich families not yours.

That's not true. College costs have increased so much families can't hope to deny themselves every luxury to meet that cost. We're fortunate that we can afford any college, but most people can't, even if they tighten their belt.

Please don't be so ignorant and smug.

But they can afford MOST colleges. So instead of complaining they can't afford the most expensive ones, they should focus on the hundreds of great colleges they can afford and recognized how privileged that is.

I can't afford a $100K car, so I don't complain about it, I don't buy it, I find a Honda/Toyota for $25-30K that is a great car and buy it.

Which is why kids are going to SEC schools

there are many options besides SEC schools. But yes, choose whatever you like best that you can afford. There are many options out there for good students. You may need to step down just "1 tier" but your smart kid will still get an amazing education. It's what they do while at college that matters.

What are those options?

Going to Salisbury you mean?

NP. Correct. Or Towson or UMBC.

Exactly so what donut hole families are complaining about is if one of us just quit our job we could send our kid to a T50 school with FA, or go to Towson/UMBC/Salisbury/

It literally made more sense for me to quit my job for 4 years. Isn't that silly.

thanks COVID for being laid off, it worked out. So we now had a salary of $120 and we got FA.

That's why many never go off welfare because working doesn't make sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The donut hole is a myth that poor savers tell themselves. Decisions have consequences. Buying a larger house or nicer car - spending more for vacations and fancy summer camps are all decisions.

College costs are not unexpected. You have nearly two decades to save.

Plus, you don’t have to save for the most expensive college. All of you who consider yourselves middle class- that means kids stay at home and go to college or they go to an instate college. That is what middle class parents have done for generations. Paying the full amount for high end tuitions for private schools are for rich families not yours.

But that's the problem, college expenses have become exploitative for most family budgets. As PP suggests, your entire adult life you're now supposed to be either saving for college or paying off your loans. It's basically become a third layer of taxation in addition to state and federal.

College costs are INDEFENSIBLE here in the US. No other country in the world has such expensive university education, and yet many have excellent institutions. It IS exploitative.

It's like the cost of healthcare in this country. It does not need to be that high! Other wealthy nations do it for much less.

But here capitalism rules, the federal government has very little regulatory control compared to other countries... and we are left with this. Very little upward mobility in an erstwhile upwardly mobile country.

So you're all right where universities want you, suckers: bickering amongst yourselves, and forgetting that you are all being exploited BY THEM.

+1

Only in the US would people compare a university education with a luxury car.

Because only in the US do people feel entitled to the tippy top ranked universities for their kids, no matter what.
Most of Europe is not attending Cambridge or Oxford for undergrad. They are attending a nearby local university. Their kid was "tracked for college" sometime around 12/13 yo and if they do well on the testing that day, they may not be eligible for a STEM major 5 years later. Nobody is saying you can't get an education. We literally have hundreds of great choices, many offering merit. There are ways to attend college for minimal costs, you just wont attend a Top tier university. Just like much of Europe does not attend a Top tier university for their undergrad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The donut hole is a myth that poor savers tell themselves. Decisions have consequences. Buying a larger house or nicer car - spending more for vacations and fancy summer camps are all decisions.

College costs are not unexpected. You have nearly two decades to save.

Plus, you don’t have to save for the most expensive college. All of you who consider yourselves middle class- that means kids stay at home and go to college or they go to an instate college. That is what middle class parents have done for generations. Paying the full amount for high end tuitions for private schools are for rich families not yours.

That's not true. College costs have increased so much families can't hope to deny themselves every luxury to meet that cost. We're fortunate that we can afford any college, but most people can't, even if they tighten their belt.

Please don't be so ignorant and smug.

But they can afford MOST colleges. So instead of complaining they can't afford the most expensive ones, they should focus on the hundreds of great colleges they can afford and recognized how privileged that is.

I can't afford a $100K car, so I don't complain about it, I don't buy it, I find a Honda/Toyota for $25-30K that is a great car and buy it.

Which is why kids are going to SEC schools

there are many options besides SEC schools. But yes, choose whatever you like best that you can afford. There are many options out there for good students. You may need to step down just "1 tier" but your smart kid will still get an amazing education. It's what they do while at college that matters.

What are those options?

Going to Salisbury you mean?

NP. Correct. Or Towson or UMBC.

Exactly so what donut hole families are complaining about is if one of us just quit our job we could send our kid to a T50 school with FA, or go to Towson/UMBC/Salisbury/

It literally made more sense for me to quit my job for 4 years. Isn't that silly.

thanks COVID for being laid off, it worked out. So we now had a salary of $120 and we got FA.

That's why many never go off welfare because working doesn't make sense.

They could also go to a small private college that offers merit aid (such as Goucher) or CC -> 4-year. If they have a lot of AP credits they could plan to graduate a year early from college.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think it’s insane that our $250K family did not get 1 penny FA for a $60K/year school.

We were also not always $250K family, we were closer to $160/year, then $180K for a few years. Plus the $250 includes one of us having 2 jobs.

My H is a cop and I was a GS-13 most our lives so we could not really save that much.

Well if you still lived as if you earned $160K/year, you could cash flow the $80K/year with the extra. You could have chosen to save the increases in income for college (or at least part of it).

We do still love the $160k/year life.

$250-$160= $90K - taxes, SS, etc = $45K/year.

Two kids in college = $40K/year/kid = $80K. So we are still in the hole $35K/year.

Well obviously you can’t afford to cash flow college. Who can?? That’s why “college fund” is a term that everyone in America understands what it means.

So explain to me how I would have "saved for college" when our HHI was $120? because it was not $250 our whole lives it literally took 25 years to get to that. $160 wasn't much better becasue we moved out of our apartment and had day care.

So are you saying just don't buy a house that's a luxury? Don't get promotions because you can't get FA? explain to me how I sace making $120 or even $160?