Why Was My Son Deferred from Duke ED?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not looking for sympathy but any insight would be appreciated. My son was told he would be a good candidate for Ivy League/Duke by his school counselor and applied ED to Duke with a 36 ACT, near-perfect GPA, all 5s and 4s on AP exams, two sport athlete and captain of one sport, student body president, editor in chief of school newspaper, head student liaison for arts nonprofit, a summer internship with a congressman, leadership volunteering position at library with book preservation and restoration experience, good awards, etc. My son had multiple people look over his essays, including the optional ones (academic experience and agreements/disagreements prompts) and he received good feedback. We figured maybe there was something else wrong with his application (maybe a recommendation letter was unexpectedly weak) or that he should’ve gone for another school he liked that would be a bit easier to be accepted like Cornell or Johns Hopkins, but over the past few days he was accepted to UNC Chapel Hill with a full scholarship, USC with scholarship pending, and UMich all out of state. He’s still disappointed about Duke but the UNC scholarship is very enticing and he’s still in the running for Duke, although we’re not sure about the chances of being accepted after a deferral. Inputs are welcome!

The simple truth is because while his accomplishments are impressive, everyone applying has equally or even more impressive credentials.

This is not true. Very few are student body president, captain of a sport team,editor-in-chief, and a 36 ACT score. President of student body & editor-in-chief are complementary positions that make sense.

OP: The rejection is personal. Not sure why, but I suspect that something in one or more essays negatively affected admissions readers.

There are 10,000+ student body presidents. A lot of them apply to Duke.
There are 100,000+ team captains. A lot of them apply to Duke.
There are 10,000+ editors in chiefs. A lot of them apply to Duke.

There are also an infinite number of superlative EC that your kid didn't do that other kids do. A lot of them apply to Duke.

Seriously, if you don't get it, there are hundreds of thousands of kids who have the scores and EC's to be "qualified" to go to these T20 schools. There are only so many seats. As such, there is going to be some disappointment.

I think that you miss the point. OP's child is not just editor-in-chief, student body president, captain of a sports team, and holding a 36 ACT score, OP's child has all four. This is a very well qualified candidate for admission to any elite college or university in the country that offers his preferred course of study.

Plus, OP's child applied ED.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I disagree with your assumption that the readers took something negative from OP's kid's essays (thereby making it "personal"). A kid can have perfect everything -- including essays -- and still not make the cut because the AOs are in charge of putting together a class, based on many criteria, not just giving a thumbs-up or thumbs-down to an individual based on the perfection or lack thereof of the application.

We will have to continue to disagree with each other. And we have different definitions of the word "perfect". If OP's son's application & qualifications were perfect, OP's son would have been admitted.

[Anonymous]

I will repeat myself: OP it is probably something about the Duke specific essays that tipped the scale.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not looking for sympathy but any insight would be appreciated. My son was told he would be a good candidate for Ivy League/Duke by his school counselor and applied ED to Duke with a 36 ACT, near-perfect GPA, all 5s and 4s on AP exams, two sport athlete and captain of one sport, student body president, editor in chief of school newspaper, head student liaison for arts nonprofit, a summer internship with a congressman, leadership volunteering position at library with book preservation and restoration experience, good awards, etc. My son had multiple people look over his essays, including the optional ones (academic experience and agreements/disagreements prompts) and he received good feedback. We figured maybe there was something else wrong with his application (maybe a recommendation letter was unexpectedly weak) or that he should’ve gone for another school he liked that would be a bit easier to be accepted like Cornell or Johns Hopkins, but over the past few days he was accepted to UNC Chapel Hill with a full scholarship, USC with scholarship pending, and UMich all out of state. He’s still disappointed about Duke but the UNC scholarship is very enticing and he’s still in the running for Duke, although we’re not sure about the chances of being accepted after a deferral. Inputs are welcome!

The simple truth is because while his accomplishments are impressive, everyone applying has equally or even more impressive credentials.

This is not true. Very few are student body president, captain of a sport team,editor-in-chief, and a 36 ACT score. President of student body & editor-in-chief are complementary positions that make sense.

OP: The rejection is personal. Not sure why, but I suspect that something in one or more essays negatively affected admissions readers.

There are 10,000+ student body presidents. A lot of them apply to Duke.
There are 100,000+ team captains. A lot of them apply to Duke.
There are 10,000+ editors in chiefs. A lot of them apply to Duke.

There are also an infinite number of superlative EC that your kid didn't do that other kids do. A lot of them apply to Duke.

Seriously, if you don't get it, there are hundreds of thousands of kids who have the scores and EC's to be "qualified" to go to these T20 schools. There are only so many seats. As such, there is going to be some disappointment.

I think that you miss the point. OP's child is not just editor-in-chief, student body president, captain of a sports team, and holding a 36 ACT score, OP's child has all four. This is a very well qualified candidate for admission to any elite college or university in the country that offers his preferred course of study.

very well qualified plus 4 bucks will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks. These credentials are not that uncommon, and in fact seem pretty conventional these days. Nothing really stands out here. It's like he lived his high school life to match what he though the colleges want. And he was obviously wrong.

[Anonymous]

Weird comments here. Duke is not the University of New Mexico. This is no different from Harvard or Stanford. Not all "perfect on paper" people get in. End of story.

The good news, OP, is your son is a motivated and bright young man who will continue to do amazing things.

[Anonymous]

Agree these arguments are weird.

OP and their DC are sad that kid didn't get into first choice school via ED. It's reasonable to be sad. It's reasonable to have wished to get ED and be done with it.

The kid has great stats, and AS A RESULT, has GREAT options. This is how it should be.

But there should never be any expectation that the kid "should have gotten into Duke"? That's just how it goes at very competitive schools, lots of very high stats kids get turned aside. That's life.

Good luck to OP's kid for RD.

[Anonymous]

OP, your son sounds wonderful and will surely be well-set-up to pursue, and excel in, whichever career he chooses. Also, just to throw in a dash of hope: Years ago I was deferred from Harvard and then admitted regular decision. Sure it would have been nice to skip the other apps but I’d never complain!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not looking for sympathy but any insight would be appreciated. My son was told he would be a good candidate for Ivy League/Duke by his school counselor and applied ED to Duke with a 36 ACT, near-perfect GPA, all 5s and 4s on AP exams, two sport athlete and captain of one sport, student body president, editor in chief of school newspaper, head student liaison for arts nonprofit, a summer internship with a congressman, leadership volunteering position at library with book preservation and restoration experience, good awards, etc. My son had multiple people look over his essays, including the optional ones (academic experience and agreements/disagreements prompts) and he received good feedback. We figured maybe there was something else wrong with his application (maybe a recommendation letter was unexpectedly weak) or that he should’ve gone for another school he liked that would be a bit easier to be accepted like Cornell or Johns Hopkins, but over the past few days he was accepted to UNC Chapel Hill with a full scholarship, USC with scholarship pending, and UMich all out of state. He’s still disappointed about Duke but the UNC scholarship is very enticing and he’s still in the running for Duke, although we’re not sure about the chances of being accepted after a deferral. Inputs are welcome!

The simple truth is because while his accomplishments are impressive, everyone applying has equally or even more impressive credentials.

This is not true. Very few are student body president, captain of a sport team,editor-in-chief, and a 36 ACT score. President of student body & editor-in-chief are complementary positions that make sense.

OP: The rejection is personal. Not sure why, but I suspect that something in one or more essays negatively affected admissions readers.

There are 10,000+ student body presidents. A lot of them apply to Duke.
There are 100,000+ team captains. A lot of them apply to Duke.
There are 10,000+ editors in chiefs. A lot of them apply to Duke.

There are also an infinite number of superlative EC that your kid didn't do that other kids do. A lot of them apply to Duke.

Seriously, if you don't get it, there are hundreds of thousands of kids who have the scores and EC's to be "qualified" to go to these T20 schools. There are only so many seats. As such, there is going to be some disappointment.

I think that you miss the point. OP's child is not just editor-in-chief, student body president, captain of a sports team, and holding a 36 ACT score, OP's child has all four. This is a very well qualified candidate for admission to any elite college or university in the country that offers his preferred course of study.

very well qualified plus 4 bucks will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks. These credentials are not that uncommon, and in fact seem pretty conventional these days. Nothing really stands out here. It's like he lived his high school life to match what he though the colleges want. And he was obviously wrong.

You miss the point. While many students have one or two of these credentials, it is quite rare to have all four.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not looking for sympathy but any insight would be appreciated. My son was told he would be a good candidate for Ivy League/Duke by his school counselor and applied ED to Duke with a 36 ACT, near-perfect GPA, all 5s and 4s on AP exams, two sport athlete and captain of one sport, student body president, editor in chief of school newspaper, head student liaison for arts nonprofit, a summer internship with a congressman, leadership volunteering position at library with book preservation and restoration experience, good awards, etc. My son had multiple people look over his essays, including the optional ones (academic experience and agreements/disagreements prompts) and he received good feedback. We figured maybe there was something else wrong with his application (maybe a recommendation letter was unexpectedly weak) or that he should’ve gone for another school he liked that would be a bit easier to be accepted like Cornell or Johns Hopkins, but over the past few days he was accepted to UNC Chapel Hill with a full scholarship, USC with scholarship pending, and UMich all out of state. He’s still disappointed about Duke but the UNC scholarship is very enticing and he’s still in the running for Duke, although we’re not sure about the chances of being accepted after a deferral. Inputs are welcome!

The simple truth is because while his accomplishments are impressive, everyone applying has equally or even more impressive credentials.

This is not true. Very few are student body president, captain of a sport team,editor-in-chief, and a 36 ACT score. President of student body & editor-in-chief are complementary positions that make sense.

OP: The rejection is personal. Not sure why, but I suspect that something in one or more essays negatively affected admissions readers.

There are 10,000+ student body presidents. A lot of them apply to Duke.
There are 100,000+ team captains. A lot of them apply to Duke.
There are 10,000+ editors in chiefs. A lot of them apply to Duke.

There are also an infinite number of superlative EC that your kid didn't do that other kids do. A lot of them apply to Duke.

Seriously, if you don't get it, there are hundreds of thousands of kids who have the scores and EC's to be "qualified" to go to these T20 schools. There are only so many seats. As such, there is going to be some disappointment.

I think that you miss the point. OP's child is not just editor-in-chief, student body president, captain of a sports team, and holding a 36 ACT score, OP's child has all four. This is a very well qualified candidate for admission to any elite college or university in the country that offers his preferred course of study.

very well qualified plus 4 bucks will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks. These credentials are not that uncommon, and in fact seem pretty conventional these days. Nothing really stands out here. It's like he lived his high school life to match what he though the colleges want. And he was obviously wrong.

You miss the point. While many students have one or two of these credentials, it is quite rare to have all four.

But are these four things something the university wants? Or are they seeking a rodeo rider aspiring to be a water engineer or an Olympic swimmer wanting to create new nail polish formulations?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Agree these arguments are weird.

OP and their DC are sad that kid didn't get into first choice school via ED. It's reasonable to be sad. It's reasonable to have wished to get ED and be done with it.

The kid has great stats, and AS A RESULT, has GREAT options. This is how it should be.

But there should never be any expectation that the kid "should have gotten into Duke"? That's just how it goes at very competitive schools, lots of very high stats kids get turned aside. That's life.

Good luck to OP's kid for RD.

Yes. Many are also missing that this kid can still get into Duke.

Duke accepts 3K kids a year. They get applications from 13K schools.
That's at least 10K high schools where they accept no one.

It's holistic. The don't have a cut-off for scores and anyone above that gets in. Many of you claim to understand this, but then seem baffled when it happens in practice.

He's also Asian. See this video: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/uIO2nwEO7KU
Talking about Harvard in this case, but it is not that different.
You have a 12.7% chance of getting into Harvard if you are Asian and perform in top decile.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Several angry posters who enjoy using the word weird. How weird is that ???

Well - when people start saying it's personal and an AO read something in the DC's essay that made them not like the applicant..... Come on. Where do you come up with that as a reason when you have no clue and when SOOO many amazing kids are not accepted?

You need to get more experience with the most highly selective universities and then you will understand. Many admissions offices share wht they look for in essays for their university.

OP: Your son's credentials are exceptional. Ignore the poster who is trying ti ruin this thread & offers no constructive or insightful advice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Because when thousands of qualified kids apply, decisions become arbitrary. Duke also favors certain high schools.

This. There are more qualified kids than openings. You should have realized acceptance, while possible, was unlikely.

Look at the acceptance rates. It is simple Math.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not looking for sympathy but any insight would be appreciated. My son was told he would be a good candidate for Ivy League/Duke by his school counselor and applied ED to Duke with a 36 ACT, near-perfect GPA, all 5s and 4s on AP exams, two sport athlete and captain of one sport, student body president, editor in chief of school newspaper, head student liaison for arts nonprofit, a summer internship with a congressman, leadership volunteering position at library with book preservation and restoration experience, good awards, etc. My son had multiple people look over his essays, including the optional ones (academic experience and agreements/disagreements prompts) and he received good feedback. We figured maybe there was something else wrong with his application (maybe a recommendation letter was unexpectedly weak) or that he should’ve gone for another school he liked that would be a bit easier to be accepted like Cornell or Johns Hopkins, but over the past few days he was accepted to UNC Chapel Hill with a full scholarship, USC with scholarship pending, and UMich all out of state. He’s still disappointed about Duke but the UNC scholarship is very enticing and he’s still in the running for Duke, although we’re not sure about the chances of being accepted after a deferral. Inputs are welcome!

The simple truth is because while his accomplishments are impressive, everyone applying has equally or even more impressive credentials.

This is not true. Very few are student body president, captain of a sport team,editor-in-chief, and a 36 ACT score. President of student body & editor-in-chief are complementary positions that make sense.

OP: The rejection is personal. Not sure why, but I suspect that something in one or more essays negatively affected admissions readers.

There are 10,000+ student body presidents. A lot of them apply to Duke.
There are 100,000+ team captains. A lot of them apply to Duke.
There are 10,000+ editors in chiefs. A lot of them apply to Duke.

There are also an infinite number of superlative EC that your kid didn't do that other kids do. A lot of them apply to Duke.

Seriously, if you don't get it, there are hundreds of thousands of kids who have the scores and EC's to be "qualified" to go to these T20 schools. There are only so many seats. As such, there is going to be some disappointment.

I think that you miss the point. OP's child is not just editor-in-chief, student body president, captain of a sports team, and holding a 36 ACT score, OP's child has all four. This is a very well qualified candidate for admission to any elite college or university in the country that offers his preferred course of study.

very well qualified plus 4 bucks will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks. These credentials are not that uncommon, and in fact seem pretty conventional these days. Nothing really stands out here. It's like he lived his high school life to match what he though the colleges want. And he was obviously wrong.

You miss the point. While many students have one or two of these credentials, it is quite rare to have all four.

But are these four things something the university wants? Or are they seeking a rodeo rider aspiring to be a water engineer or an Olympic swimmer wanting to create new nail polish formulations?

bingo. They'd probably much rather take the nail polish formulator than the kid who edits the school paper in the back of student government meetings.
Wouldn't you rather be stuck in a room with this kid?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I disagree with your assumption that the readers took something negative from OP's kid's essays (thereby making it "personal"). A kid can have perfect everything -- including essays -- and still not make the cut because the AOs are in charge of putting together a class, based on many criteria, not just giving a thumbs-up or thumbs-down to an individual based on the perfection or lack thereof of the application.

We will have to continue to disagree with each other. And we have different definitions of the word "perfect". If OP's son's application & qualifications were perfect, OP's son would have been admitted.

This is just so not how admissions works! This puts the blame on the kid, when it's entirely possible that he's not what the AO wants to make sure there is a well-rounded class (as Duke defines that). Why are you so intent on assuming there must have been something wrong with OP's son's essays? It's entirely possible -- just to choose one variable -- that OP's kid could have gotten in if only he were applying from rural Alaska with the exact same profile otherwise, to check the geographic diversity box.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not looking for sympathy but any insight would be appreciated. My son was told he would be a good candidate for Ivy League/Duke by his school counselor and applied ED to Duke with a 36 ACT, near-perfect GPA, all 5s and 4s on AP exams, two sport athlete and captain of one sport, student body president, editor in chief of school newspaper, head student liaison for arts nonprofit, a summer internship with a congressman, leadership volunteering position at library with book preservation and restoration experience, good awards, etc. My son had multiple people look over his essays, including the optional ones (academic experience and agreements/disagreements prompts) and he received good feedback. We figured maybe there was something else wrong with his application (maybe a recommendation letter was unexpectedly weak) or that he should’ve gone for another school he liked that would be a bit easier to be accepted like Cornell or Johns Hopkins, but over the past few days he was accepted to UNC Chapel Hill with a full scholarship, USC with scholarship pending, and UMich all out of state. He’s still disappointed about Duke but the UNC scholarship is very enticing and he’s still in the running for Duke, although we’re not sure about the chances of being accepted after a deferral. Inputs are welcome!

Why in the world do you care?

Duke put out Steven Miller.

HS counselors know zip.

Also Richard Spencer, which is where he met Stephen Miller.

Such nice people.