UVA admission stats across NOVA

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:10-12 APs?! Jeez. Sounds impossible to get in.

Nah. My kid hit that pretty easily, without being some overstressed, study at midnight, brilliant academic rockstar.

10: World History and Human Geo
11: APUSH, European, English Lang, Latin
12: Macro, Micro, English Lit, US Gov, Comp Gov

That’s 11. Clearly a humanities kid. Not doing anything special at her HS— in fact, stood out in her class for avoiding AP STEM classes (took non-AP Calc) and piling on the humanities. The key for her was going for literally every AP in her area of interest and not struggling for a year (maybe with tutoring) to pull out a kinda okay grade in math or science.

34 ACT, which hits Langley’s media

Attending WM. Did not apply to UVA.

WM is much, much easier to get into.

Not in the last couple of years. Our HS had 4.3+/1500s locked out last year. RD admission was a bloodbath— and that’s looking at the top 10-15% of the class. They will take different kids though. UVA wants the APs across all five core subjects, cares more aBout GPA than test scores and doesn’t cut ED much of a break. WM really likes ED applicants considers test scores more (or did pre-COVID) and likes the the interesting, pointy kids like PP who went very deep In some areas and less so in another. Different schools, different admissions philosophies.

I know ED apps to WM were up 25% this year over last. So it’s going to be another tough year for admissions.

The fact that WM is selective does not mean it is as selective as UVA.

Okay. UVA wins. Grand Pooh nah school of the World. But if it takes 11 APs to get into WM, seems like 10-12 is low for UVA. Probably more like 14. And if 4.3/1500s are bEIng rejected, from WM, you woUld need 4.4-4.5 for UVA. Yes?

Yes, it is statistically more difficult to get into UVAz the 75th percentile of enrolled students last year had a 4.53 gpa, ACT of 34 and sat of 1520. That’s the stats for enrolled, not admitted students (stats of admitted are higher -some students pick Ivies or SLACs over UVA). W&Ms stats are slightly lower across the board

At the 75th percentile, both W&M and UVA were at 1520 for SAT and 34 for ACT last year. GPA was 4.53 at UVA and 4.51 at W&M.

OK, Two can play the game of selective statistics While those two SAT and ACT figures are the same, W&M comes under UVA in five other categories: UVA median GPA for enrolled students was a 4.40 and a 4.33 for W&M. UVA bottom 25th percentile was a 4.24 and a 4.15 for W&M. UVA median SAT was a 1470 and W&M had a 1460 . The bottom 25th percentile had a 1400 at UVA and a 1375 at W&M. And of course GPA at the 75th percentile is a 4.53 and 4.52 at W&M.

The PP had cited 75th percentile for UVA and did not provide for W&M. Just pointing out they are pretty much the same at the 75th.

But you chose only two categories out of nine. The other seven have W&M below UVA, statistically. This goes to a PPs comment that it is more difficult to get into W&M. It is not

No PP said that. You made that up.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:10-12 APs?! Jeez. Sounds impossible to get in.

Nah. My kid hit that pretty easily, without being some overstressed, study at midnight, brilliant academic rockstar.

10: World History and Human Geo
11: APUSH, European, English Lang, Latin
12: Macro, Micro, English Lit, US Gov, Comp Gov

That’s 11. Clearly a humanities kid. Not doing anything special at her HS— in fact, stood out in her class for avoiding AP STEM classes (took non-AP Calc) and piling on the humanities. The key for her was going for literally every AP in her area of interest and not struggling for a year (maybe with tutoring) to pull out a kinda okay grade in math or science.

34 ACT, which hits Langley’s media

Attending WM. Did not apply to UVA.

WM is much, much easier to get into.

Not in the last couple of years. Our HS had 4.3+/1500s locked out last year. RD admission was a bloodbath— and that’s looking at the top 10-15% of the class. They will take different kids though. UVA wants the APs across all five core subjects, cares more aBout GPA than test scores and doesn’t cut ED much of a break. WM really likes ED applicants considers test scores more (or did pre-COVID) and likes the the interesting, pointy kids like PP who went very deep In some areas and less so in another. Different schools, different admissions philosophies.

I know ED apps to WM were up 25% this year over last. So it’s going to be another tough year for admissions.

The fact that WM is selective does not mean it is as selective as UVA.

Okay. UVA wins. Grand Pooh nah school of the World. But if it takes 11 APs to get into WM, seems like 10-12 is low for UVA. Probably more like 14. And if 4.3/1500s are bEIng rejected, from WM, you woUld need 4.4-4.5 for UVA. Yes?

Yes, it is statistically more difficult to get into UVAz the 75th percentile of enrolled students last year had a 4.53 gpa, ACT of 34 and sat of 1520. That’s the stats for enrolled, not admitted students (stats of admitted are higher -some students pick Ivies or SLACs over UVA). W&Ms stats are slightly lower across the board

Where are you getting those stats?

+1

Other PP here - yup, they do not want higher stats than about what you listed, likely due to yield protection (UVA knows those applicants will choose a different school, ultimately - not UVA).

To the best of my knowledge, UVA does not engage in yield protection (like Virginia Tech does). Please cite something to show me wrong.

DP. You must be joking. Of *course* they do. Most schools nowadays do exactly that. If you don't apply ED, it's clear you're weighing your options elsewhere, and you run the risk of being rejected to preserve that yield. All you have to do is talk to students at school and look at Naviance.

+1

You have to be terribly naive and very foolish to think that UVA, and most other schools who play the ED game, are not yield protecting.

I'm not foolish. Please cite something to show me that UVA engages in yield protection because I have never seen it admitted or even discussed anywhere, whereas it is discussed a lot about Virginia Tech and W&M

They were saying ED is de facto a form of yield protection.

Then how is their acceptance rate not sky high for ED?

UVA has said that they accept a tiny number of students in ED and that their best applicant pool is EA. They seem to discourage ED (unlike other schools). It’s hard to figure out whether ED is even an advantage (bump) at UVA.

Maybe they do ED not to increase the yield but just let the applicant know early if they get in. If not, they still have time to ed2 and etc to other schools.

It seems unlikely that they reinstated ED for the benefit of applicants. It’s typically used to benefit universities and they know that they are in the minority since it’s very rare for a state school to offer ED.

No it isnt

It is rare for state universities.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I think the people who cry “yield protection!” just don’t understand how competitive these schools have gotten or that their kid is one of many strong applicants. UVA doesn’t have to play the yield game. Top students, especially instate, choose to attend.

This is simply not true. A lot of them do decide to attend, sure. But for many headed to Ivies, UVA is just a safety school - and UVA knows this.

Hah! The parents may think that but they are in for a rude shock. My UVA kid chose UVA over an Ivy and never looked back. Also turned down Georgia Tech, aerospace, for UVA. You may be surprised when your kid gets deferred or waitlisted for ivies. I know of only one person who turned down UVa for an Ivy

Um, ok. I wasn't talking about my kid, or yours. Plenty of kids do indeed get into Ivies and wouldn't give UVA a second thought. You seem oddly defensive that this is so.

+1

UVA knows this = yield protection.

I do not understand why other PP thinks that everything is documented, in black and white. If one knows a large number of applicants who have gone this route, one is not going to list names on DCUM. LOL.

It would be irrational for UVA to reject in-state kids with very high stats just because those kids consider UVA to be their safeties. First, even for kids with very high stats, it is not easy to get into Ivies or similarly ranked schools. Many kids will inevitably not get in, and many of those kids living in Virginia will choose UVA (just like may top students in California who do not get into Ivies will attend Berkeley or UCLA). In fact, if a student has not withdrawn their UVA application by January, it means that the student did not get into any Ivy thorough ED. The probability that the student will get into Ivies through RD would not be high enough for UVA consider rejecting the kid to protect the yield. Second, there are families who do not want to pay for Ivies, and it would be difficult for UVA to predict which families think that Ivies are worth the additional costs. UVA would not want to lose out on the kids with very high stats who do not want to pay $300k for college education. Indeed, Naviance data do not support that UVA rejects in-state kids with very high stats to protect the yield. I just checked the Naviance data for a FCPS high school, and they show that every single student with 4.5+ GPA and 1570+ SAT was accepted.

Thank you for this. Excellent analysis.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:10-12 APs?! Jeez. Sounds impossible to get in.

Nah. My kid hit that pretty easily, without being some overstressed, study at midnight, brilliant academic rockstar.

10: World History and Human Geo
11: APUSH, European, English Lang, Latin
12: Macro, Micro, English Lit, US Gov, Comp Gov

That’s 11. Clearly a humanities kid. Not doing anything special at her HS— in fact, stood out in her class for avoiding AP STEM classes (took non-AP Calc) and piling on the humanities. The key for her was going for literally every AP in her area of interest and not struggling for a year (maybe with tutoring) to pull out a kinda okay grade in math or science.

34 ACT, which hits Langley’s media

Attending WM. Did not apply to UVA.

WM is much, much easier to get into.

Not in the last couple of years. Our HS had 4.3+/1500s locked out last year. RD admission was a bloodbath— and that’s looking at the top 10-15% of the class. They will take different kids though. UVA wants the APs across all five core subjects, cares more aBout GPA than test scores and doesn’t cut ED much of a break. WM really likes ED applicants considers test scores more (or did pre-COVID) and likes the the interesting, pointy kids like PP who went very deep In some areas and less so in another. Different schools, different admissions philosophies.

I know ED apps to WM were up 25% this year over last. So it’s going to be another tough year for admissions.

The fact that WM is selective does not mean it is as selective as UVA.

Okay. UVA wins. Grand Pooh nah school of the World. But if it takes 11 APs to get into WM, seems like 10-12 is low for UVA. Probably more like 14. And if 4.3/1500s are bEIng rejected, from WM, you woUld need 4.4-4.5 for UVA. Yes?

Yes, it is statistically more difficult to get into UVAz the 75th percentile of enrolled students last year had a 4.53 gpa, ACT of 34 and sat of 1520. That’s the stats for enrolled, not admitted students (stats of admitted are higher -some students pick Ivies or SLACs over UVA). W&Ms stats are slightly lower across the board

At the 75th percentile, both W&M and UVA were at 1520 for SAT and 34 for ACT last year. GPA was 4.53 at UVA and 4.51 at W&M.

OK, Two can play the game of selective statistics While those two SAT and ACT figures are the same, W&M comes under UVA in five other categories: UVA median GPA for enrolled students was a 4.40 and a 4.33 for W&M. UVA bottom 25th percentile was a 4.24 and a 4.15 for W&M. UVA median SAT was a 1470 and W&M had a 1460 . The bottom 25th percentile had a 1400 at UVA and a 1375 at W&M. And of course GPA at the 75th percentile is a 4.53 and 4.52 at W&M.

The PP had cited 75th percentile for UVA and did not provide for W&M. Just pointing out they are pretty much the same at the 75th.

But you chose only two categories out of nine. The other seven have W&M below UVA, statistically. This goes to a PPs comment that it is more difficult to get into W&M. It is not

No PP said that. You made that up.

+1. I said my DD has a friend who got into UVA but not WM. But that’s one kid is a sea of applications.

I have had two kids go through this, and seen their friends do it as well. IME (and I haven’t dug through the stats for a couple of years), WM is definitely easier to get into ED than UVA. WM gives a strong ED preference. UVA does not. (It also easier for men to get into WM than UVA always, but let’s see what SCOTUS’s affirmative action case says. That could change). WM ED is getting interesting, though, because the secret is out and kids are watching peers rejections and trying to lock down a top tier state school. WM had a 25% increase in ED apps over last year, but only a 10% increase in admissions (presumably this is ED1 only.

In the RD pool *for instate* WM vs UVA, it seems like admissions is pretty close. I know a lot of kids who got into.both or rejected by both in RD. Not a lot of in WM not UVA.

I don’t have a handle on how the UVA EA pool plays into this though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:10-12 APs?! Jeez. Sounds impossible to get in.

Nah. My kid hit that pretty easily, without being some overstressed, study at midnight, brilliant academic rockstar.

10: World History and Human Geo
11: APUSH, European, English Lang, Latin
12: Macro, Micro, English Lit, US Gov, Comp Gov

That’s 11. Clearly a humanities kid. Not doing anything special at her HS— in fact, stood out in her class for avoiding AP STEM classes (took non-AP Calc) and piling on the humanities. The key for her was going for literally every AP in her area of interest and not struggling for a year (maybe with tutoring) to pull out a kinda okay grade in math or science.

34 ACT, which hits Langley’s media

Attending WM. Did not apply to UVA.

WM is much, much easier to get into.

Not in the last couple of years. Our HS had 4.3+/1500s locked out last year. RD admission was a bloodbath— and that’s looking at the top 10-15% of the class. They will take different kids though. UVA wants the APs across all five core subjects, cares more aBout GPA than test scores and doesn’t cut ED much of a break. WM really likes ED applicants considers test scores more (or did pre-COVID) and likes the the interesting, pointy kids like PP who went very deep In some areas and less so in another. Different schools, different admissions philosophies.

I know ED apps to WM were up 25% this year over last. So it’s going to be another tough year for admissions.

The fact that WM is selective does not mean it is as selective as UVA.

Okay. UVA wins. Grand Pooh nah school of the World. But if it takes 11 APs to get into WM, seems like 10-12 is low for UVA. Probably more like 14. And if 4.3/1500s are bEIng rejected, from WM, you woUld need 4.4-4.5 for UVA. Yes?

Yes, it is statistically more difficult to get into UVAz the 75th percentile of enrolled students last year had a 4.53 gpa, ACT of 34 and sat of 1520. That’s the stats for enrolled, not admitted students (stats of admitted are higher -some students pick Ivies or SLACs over UVA). W&Ms stats are slightly lower across the board

Where are you getting those stats?

+1

Other PP here - yup, they do not want higher stats than about what you listed, likely due to yield protection (UVA knows those applicants will choose a different school, ultimately - not UVA).

To the best of my knowledge, UVA does not engage in yield protection (like Virginia Tech does). Please cite something to show me wrong.

DP. You must be joking. Of *course* they do. Most schools nowadays do exactly that. If you don't apply ED, it's clear you're weighing your options elsewhere, and you run the risk of being rejected to preserve that yield. All you have to do is talk to students at school and look at Naviance.

+1

You have to be terribly naive and very foolish to think that UVA, and most other schools who play the ED game, are not yield protecting.

How does UVA and similar schools decide which sky high stat kids to accept and which to deny in RD for yield protection? We know a number of 4.5+ GPA kids (APs in all core classes) with SAT scores of 1560 or above that were accepted at UVA RD. And yes, a few of them ultimately went to T15 schools.

UVA likes "diversity".

I don't doubt that, but the kids I'm talking about are all white or Asian and upper middle class.

Asia is a rather large continent, no?

Yes, it is. And "Asian" is used on this forum all the time to describe a demographic group. But you know this.

Which one, in particular? That information is pertinent to almost any post re: admissions.

I think you're just trying to be difficult, but fine. Students of Chinese and Korean ancestry. And as I mentioned, "Asian" is used all the time on DCUM without specifying further.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the people who cry “yield protection!” just don’t understand how competitive these schools have gotten or that their kid is one of many strong applicants. UVA doesn’t have to play the yield game. Top students, especially instate, choose to attend.

This is simply not true. A lot of them do decide to attend, sure. But for many headed to Ivies, UVA is just a safety school - and UVA knows this.

Hah! The parents may think that but they are in for a rude shock. My UVA kid chose UVA over an Ivy and never looked back. Also turned down Georgia Tech, aerospace, for UVA. You may be surprised when your kid gets deferred or waitlisted for ivies. I know of only one person who turned down UVa for an Ivy

Um, ok. I wasn't talking about my kid, or yours. Plenty of kids do indeed get into Ivies and wouldn't give UVA a second thought. You seem oddly defensive that this is so.

+1

UVA knows this = yield protection.

I do not understand why other PP thinks that everything is documented, in black and white. If one knows a large number of applicants who have gone this route, one is not going to list names on DCUM. LOL.

It would be irrational for UVA to reject in-state kids with very high stats just because those kids consider UVA to be their safeties. First, even for kids with very high stats, it is not easy to get into Ivies or similarly ranked schools. Many kids will inevitably not get in, and many of those kids living in Virginia will choose UVA (just like may top students in California who do not get into Ivies will attend Berkeley or UCLA). In fact, if a student has not withdrawn their UVA application by January, it means that the student did not get into any Ivy thorough ED. The probability that the student will get into Ivies through RD would not be high enough for UVA consider rejecting the kid to protect the yield. Second, there are families who do not want to pay for Ivies, and it would be difficult for UVA to predict which families think that Ivies are worth the additional costs. UVA would not want to lose out on the kids with very high stats who do not want to pay $300k for college education. Indeed, Naviance data do not support that UVA rejects in-state kids with very high stats to protect the yield. I just checked the Naviance data for a FCPS high school, and they show that every single student with 4.5+ GPA and 1570+ SAT was accepted.

Thank you for this. Excellent analysis.

No one really knows without real data. Naviance is probably the best source. Is there any evidence there?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the people who cry “yield protection!” just don’t understand how competitive these schools have gotten or that their kid is one of many strong applicants. UVA doesn’t have to play the yield game. Top students, especially instate, choose to attend.

This is simply not true. A lot of them do decide to attend, sure. But for many headed to Ivies, UVA is just a safety school - and UVA knows this.

Hah! The parents may think that but they are in for a rude shock. My UVA kid chose UVA over an Ivy and never looked back. Also turned down Georgia Tech, aerospace, for UVA. You may be surprised when your kid gets deferred or waitlisted for ivies. I know of only one person who turned down UVa for an Ivy

Um, ok. I wasn't talking about my kid, or yours. Plenty of kids do indeed get into Ivies and wouldn't give UVA a second thought. You seem oddly defensive that this is so.

+1

UVA knows this = yield protection.

I do not understand why other PP thinks that everything is documented, in black and white. If one knows a large number of applicants who have gone this route, one is not going to list names on DCUM. LOL.

It would be irrational for UVA to reject in-state kids with very high stats just because those kids consider UVA to be their safeties. First, even for kids with very high stats, it is not easy to get into Ivies or similarly ranked schools. Many kids will inevitably not get in, and many of those kids living in Virginia will choose UVA (just like may top students in California who do not get into Ivies will attend Berkeley or UCLA). In fact, if a student has not withdrawn their UVA application by January, it means that the student did not get into any Ivy thorough ED. The probability that the student will get into Ivies through RD would not be high enough for UVA consider rejecting the kid to protect the yield. Second, there are families who do not want to pay for Ivies, and it would be difficult for UVA to predict which families think that Ivies are worth the additional costs. UVA would not want to lose out on the kids with very high stats who do not want to pay $300k for college education. Indeed, Naviance data do not support that UVA rejects in-state kids with very high stats to protect the yield. I just checked the Naviance data for a FCPS high school, and they show that every single student with 4.5+ GPA and 1570+ SAT was accepted.

Thank you for this. Excellent analysis.

No one really knows without real data. Naviance is probably the best source. Is there any evidence there?

It depends on the FCPS school/peer group/fellow applicants.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the people who cry “yield protection!” just don’t understand how competitive these schools have gotten or that their kid is one of many strong applicants. UVA doesn’t have to play the yield game. Top students, especially instate, choose to attend.

This is simply not true. A lot of them do decide to attend, sure. But for many headed to Ivies, UVA is just a safety school - and UVA knows this.

Hah! The parents may think that but they are in for a rude shock. My UVA kid chose UVA over an Ivy and never looked back. Also turned down Georgia Tech, aerospace, for UVA. You may be surprised when your kid gets deferred or waitlisted for ivies. I know of only one person who turned down UVa for an Ivy

Um, ok. I wasn't talking about my kid, or yours. Plenty of kids do indeed get into Ivies and wouldn't give UVA a second thought. You seem oddly defensive that this is so.

+1

UVA knows this = yield protection.

I do not understand why other PP thinks that everything is documented, in black and white. If one knows a large number of applicants who have gone this route, one is not going to list names on DCUM. LOL.

It would be irrational for UVA to reject in-state kids with very high stats just because those kids consider UVA to be their safeties. First, even for kids with very high stats, it is not easy to get into Ivies or similarly ranked schools. Many kids will inevitably not get in, and many of those kids living in Virginia will choose UVA (just like may top students in California who do not get into Ivies will attend Berkeley or UCLA). In fact, if a student has not withdrawn their UVA application by January, it means that the student did not get into any Ivy thorough ED. The probability that the student will get into Ivies through RD would not be high enough for UVA consider rejecting the kid to protect the yield. Second, there are families who do not want to pay for Ivies, and it would be difficult for UVA to predict which families think that Ivies are worth the additional costs. UVA would not want to lose out on the kids with very high stats who do not want to pay $300k for college education. Indeed, Naviance data do not support that UVA rejects in-state kids with very high stats to protect the yield. I just checked the Naviance data for a FCPS high school, and they show that every single student with 4.5+ GPA and 1570+ SAT was accepted.

Thank you for this. Excellent analysis.

No one really knows without real data. Naviance is probably the best source. Is there any evidence there?

It depends on the FCPS school/peer group/fellow applicants.

It would show up as rejections on the upper end of the area where admission is otherwise likely. In other words, there would be three bands: the reject/waitlist band, the accept band, and the "yield protect" band, going from lower stats to higher. Even then you would have to control for other factors like bad essays and references. I kind of doubt any Virginia public has that kind of pattern.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:10-12 APs?! Jeez. Sounds impossible to get in.

Nah. My kid hit that pretty easily, without being some overstressed, study at midnight, brilliant academic rockstar.

10: World History and Human Geo
11: APUSH, European, English Lang, Latin
12: Macro, Micro, English Lit, US Gov, Comp Gov

That’s 11. Clearly a humanities kid. Not doing anything special at her HS— in fact, stood out in her class for avoiding AP STEM classes (took non-AP Calc) and piling on the humanities. The key for her was going for literally every AP in her area of interest and not struggling for a year (maybe with tutoring) to pull out a kinda okay grade in math or science.

34 ACT, which hits Langley’s media

Attending WM. Did not apply to UVA.

WM is much, much easier to get into.

Not in the last couple of years. Our HS had 4.3+/1500s locked out last year. RD admission was a bloodbath— and that’s looking at the top 10-15% of the class. They will take different kids though. UVA wants the APs across all five core subjects, cares more aBout GPA than test scores and doesn’t cut ED much of a break. WM really likes ED applicants considers test scores more (or did pre-COVID) and likes the the interesting, pointy kids like PP who went very deep In some areas and less so in another. Different schools, different admissions philosophies.

I know ED apps to WM were up 25% this year over last. So it’s going to be another tough year for admissions.

The fact that WM is selective does not mean it is as selective as UVA.

Okay. UVA wins. Grand Pooh nah school of the World. But if it takes 11 APs to get into WM, seems like 10-12 is low for UVA. Probably more like 14. And if 4.3/1500s are bEIng rejected, from WM, you woUld need 4.4-4.5 for UVA. Yes?

Yes, it is statistically more difficult to get into UVAz the 75th percentile of enrolled students last year had a 4.53 gpa, ACT of 34 and sat of 1520. That’s the stats for enrolled, not admitted students (stats of admitted are higher -some students pick Ivies or SLACs over UVA). W&Ms stats are slightly lower across the board

At the 75th percentile, both W&M and UVA were at 1520 for SAT and 34 for ACT last year. GPA was 4.53 at UVA and 4.51 at W&M.

OK, Two can play the game of selective statistics While those two SAT and ACT figures are the same, W&M comes under UVA in five other categories: UVA median GPA for enrolled students was a 4.40 and a 4.33 for W&M. UVA bottom 25th percentile was a 4.24 and a 4.15 for W&M. UVA median SAT was a 1470 and W&M had a 1460 . The bottom 25th percentile had a 1400 at UVA and a 1375 at W&M. And of course GPA at the 75th percentile is a 4.53 and 4.52 at W&M.

The PP had cited 75th percentile for UVA and did not provide for W&M. Just pointing out they are pretty much the same at the 75th.

But you chose only two categories out of nine. The other seven have W&M below UVA, statistically. This goes to a PPs comment that it is more difficult to get into W&M. It is not

No PP said that. You made that up.

+1. I said my DD has a friend who got into UVA but not WM. But that’s one kid is a sea of applications.

I have had two kids go through this, and seen their friends do it as well. IME (and I haven’t dug through the stats for a couple of years), WM is definitely easier to get into ED than UVA. WM gives a strong ED preference. UVA does not. (It also easier for men to get into WM than UVA always, but let’s see what SCOTUS’s affirmative action case says. That could change). WM ED is getting interesting, though, because the secret is out and kids are watching peers rejections and trying to lock down a top tier state school. WM had a 25% increase in ED apps over last year, but only a 10% increase in admissions (presumably this is ED1 only.

In the RD pool *for instate* WM vs UVA, it seems like admissions is pretty close. I know a lot of kids who got into.both or rejected by both in RD. Not a lot of in WM not UVA.

I don’t have a handle on how the UVA EA pool plays into this though.

Uh, the affirmative action case is about race, not gender. It will have zero impact on male/female ratios.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the people who cry “yield protection!” just don’t understand how competitive these schools have gotten or that their kid is one of many strong applicants. UVA doesn’t have to play the yield game. Top students, especially instate, choose to attend.

This is simply not true. A lot of them do decide to attend, sure. But for many headed to Ivies, UVA is just a safety school - and UVA knows this.

Hah! The parents may think that but they are in for a rude shock. My UVA kid chose UVA over an Ivy and never looked back. Also turned down Georgia Tech, aerospace, for UVA. You may be surprised when your kid gets deferred or waitlisted for ivies. I know of only one person who turned down UVa for an Ivy

Um, ok. I wasn't talking about my kid, or yours. Plenty of kids do indeed get into Ivies and wouldn't give UVA a second thought. You seem oddly defensive that this is so.

+1

UVA knows this = yield protection.

I do not understand why other PP thinks that everything is documented, in black and white. If one knows a large number of applicants who have gone this route, one is not going to list names on DCUM. LOL.

I don't even follow your logic here. If someone chooses Ivy over UVA, that means they got into both. Yield protection means a school rejects their top applicants, assuming the student is using them as a safety. UVA doesn't do yield protection.

The weighted GPA thread from a few weeks ago showed that a lot of people don't realize that the GPAs are going up to 4.8 or 5.0 now, so the "4.0" people crying yield protection are talking about students who might be in the middle of the pack, not at the top.

This. And no one has come up with any proof that UVA engages in yield protections those few that do are parents of top stats kids who didn’t get in. UVA is actively trying to increase its number of URMs so something has to give. There are only 4,000 seats in a class. Last year 52 percent of the offers went to persons of color. The accepted class jumped to 14 percent black, a jump of over 8 percent. To achieve this you must dig down into the applicant class and seek out URMs and first generations. That all means fewer high stat white miss get offers

Where are you getting this information? I’m looking at 9,503 accepted and 955 were black. 3,900+ to white kids.

https://ira.virginia.edu/university-stats-facts/undergraduate-admissions

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the people who cry “yield protection!” just don’t understand how competitive these schools have gotten or that their kid is one of many strong applicants. UVA doesn’t have to play the yield game. Top students, especially instate, choose to attend.

This is simply not true. A lot of them do decide to attend, sure. But for many headed to Ivies, UVA is just a safety school - and UVA knows this.

Hah! The parents may think that but they are in for a rude shock. My UVA kid chose UVA over an Ivy and never looked back. Also turned down Georgia Tech, aerospace, for UVA. You may be surprised when your kid gets deferred or waitlisted for ivies. I know of only one person who turned down UVa for an Ivy

Um, ok. I wasn't talking about my kid, or yours. Plenty of kids do indeed get into Ivies and wouldn't give UVA a second thought. You seem oddly defensive that this is so.

+1

UVA knows this = yield protection.

I do not understand why other PP thinks that everything is documented, in black and white. If one knows a large number of applicants who have gone this route, one is not going to list names on DCUM. LOL.

I don't even follow your logic here. If someone chooses Ivy over UVA, that means they got into both. Yield protection means a school rejects their top applicants, assuming the student is using them as a safety. UVA doesn't do yield protection.

The weighted GPA thread from a few weeks ago showed that a lot of people don't realize that the GPAs are going up to 4.8 or 5.0 now, so the "4.0" people crying yield protection are talking about students who might be in the middle of the pack, not at the top.

This. And no one has come up with any proof that UVA engages in yield protections those few that do are parents of top stats kids who didn’t get in. UVA is actively trying to increase its number of URMs so something has to give. There are only 4,000 seats in a class. Last year 52 percent of the offers went to persons of color. The accepted class jumped to 14 percent black, a jump of over 8 percent. To achieve this you must dig down into the applicant class and seek out URMs and first generations. That all means fewer high stat white miss get offers

Where are you getting this information? I’m looking at 9,503 accepted and 955 were black. 3,900+ to white kids.

https://ira.virginia.edu/university-stats-facts/undergraduate-admissions

Persons of color will include Asians

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the people who cry “yield protection!” just don’t understand how competitive these schools have gotten or that their kid is one of many strong applicants. UVA doesn’t have to play the yield game. Top students, especially instate, choose to attend.

This is simply not true. A lot of them do decide to attend, sure. But for many headed to Ivies, UVA is just a safety school - and UVA knows this.

Hah! The parents may think that but they are in for a rude shock. My UVA kid chose UVA over an Ivy and never looked back. Also turned down Georgia Tech, aerospace, for UVA. You may be surprised when your kid gets deferred or waitlisted for ivies. I know of only one person who turned down UVa for an Ivy

Um, ok. I wasn't talking about my kid, or yours. Plenty of kids do indeed get into Ivies and wouldn't give UVA a second thought. You seem oddly defensive that this is so.

+1

UVA knows this = yield protection.

I do not understand why other PP thinks that everything is documented, in black and white. If one knows a large number of applicants who have gone this route, one is not going to list names on DCUM. LOL.

It would be irrational for UVA to reject in-state kids with very high stats just because those kids consider UVA to be their safeties. First, even for kids with very high stats, it is not easy to get into Ivies or similarly ranked schools. Many kids will inevitably not get in, and many of those kids living in Virginia will choose UVA (just like may top students in California who do not get into Ivies will attend Berkeley or UCLA). In fact, if a student has not withdrawn their UVA application by January, it means that the student did not get into any Ivy thorough ED. The probability that the student will get into Ivies through RD would not be high enough for UVA consider rejecting the kid to protect the yield. Second, there are families who do not want to pay for Ivies, and it would be difficult for UVA to predict which families think that Ivies are worth the additional costs. UVA would not want to lose out on the kids with very high stats who do not want to pay $300k for college education. Indeed, Naviance data do not support that UVA rejects in-state kids with very high stats to protect the yield. I just checked the Naviance data for a FCPS high school, and they show that every single student with 4.5+ GPA and 1570+ SAT was accepted.

Thank you for this. Excellent analysis.

+1 which supports the conclusion that UVA does not yield protect

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the people who cry “yield protection!” just don’t understand how competitive these schools have gotten or that their kid is one of many strong applicants. UVA doesn’t have to play the yield game. Top students, especially instate, choose to attend.

This is simply not true. A lot of them do decide to attend, sure. But for many headed to Ivies, UVA is just a safety school - and UVA knows this.

Hah! The parents may think that but they are in for a rude shock. My UVA kid chose UVA over an Ivy and never looked back. Also turned down Georgia Tech, aerospace, for UVA. You may be surprised when your kid gets deferred or waitlisted for ivies. I know of only one person who turned down UVa for an Ivy

Um, ok. I wasn't talking about my kid, or yours. Plenty of kids do indeed get into Ivies and wouldn't give UVA a second thought. You seem oddly defensive that this is so.

+1

UVA knows this = yield protection.

I do not understand why other PP thinks that everything is documented, in black and white. If one knows a large number of applicants who have gone this route, one is not going to list names on DCUM. LOL.

It would be irrational for UVA to reject in-state kids with very high stats just because those kids consider UVA to be their safeties. First, even for kids with very high stats, it is not easy to get into Ivies or similarly ranked schools. Many kids will inevitably not get in, and many of those kids living in Virginia will choose UVA (just like may top students in California who do not get into Ivies will attend Berkeley or UCLA). In fact, if a student has not withdrawn their UVA application by January, it means that the student did not get into any Ivy thorough ED. The probability that the student will get into Ivies through RD would not be high enough for UVA consider rejecting the kid to protect the yield. Second, there are families who do not want to pay for Ivies, and it would be difficult for UVA to predict which families think that Ivies are worth the additional costs. UVA would not want to lose out on the kids with very high stats who do not want to pay $300k for college education. Indeed, Naviance data do not support that UVA rejects in-state kids with very high stats to protect the yield. I just checked the Naviance data for a FCPS high school, and they show that every single student with 4.5+ GPA and 1570+ SAT was accepted.

Thank you for this. Excellent analysis.

No one really knows without real data. Naviance is probably the best source. Is there any evidence there?

The PP above said quite clearly at the end that Maviance data indicates that every student with a 4.5 etc is accepted. So no yield protection

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the people who cry “yield protection!” just don’t understand how competitive these schools have gotten or that their kid is one of many strong applicants. UVA doesn’t have to play the yield game. Top students, especially instate, choose to attend.

This is simply not true. A lot of them do decide to attend, sure. But for many headed to Ivies, UVA is just a safety school - and UVA knows this.

Hah! The parents may think that but they are in for a rude shock. My UVA kid chose UVA over an Ivy and never looked back. Also turned down Georgia Tech, aerospace, for UVA. You may be surprised when your kid gets deferred or waitlisted for ivies. I know of only one person who turned down UVa for an Ivy

Um, ok. I wasn't talking about my kid, or yours. Plenty of kids do indeed get into Ivies and wouldn't give UVA a second thought. You seem oddly defensive that this is so.

+1

UVA knows this = yield protection.

I do not understand why other PP thinks that everything is documented, in black and white. If one knows a large number of applicants who have gone this route, one is not going to list names on DCUM. LOL.

I don't even follow your logic here. If someone chooses Ivy over UVA, that means they got into both. Yield protection means a school rejects their top applicants, assuming the student is using them as a safety. UVA doesn't do yield protection.

The weighted GPA thread from a few weeks ago showed that a lot of people don't realize that the GPAs are going up to 4.8 or 5.0 now, so the "4.0" people crying yield protection are talking about students who might be in the middle of the pack, not at the top.

This. And no one has come up with any proof that UVA engages in yield protections those few that do are parents of top stats kids who didn’t get in. UVA is actively trying to increase its number of URMs so something has to give. There are only 4,000 seats in a class. Last year 52 percent of the offers went to persons of color. The accepted class jumped to 14 percent black, a jump of over 8 percent. To achieve this you must dig down into the applicant class and seek out URMs and first generations. That all means fewer high stat white miss get offers

Where are you getting this information? I’m looking at 9,503 accepted and 955 were black. 3,900+ to white kids.

https://ira.virginia.edu/university-stats-facts/undergraduate-admissions

Persons of color will include Asians

Correct. Non-Eastern Asians.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the people who cry “yield protection!” just don’t understand how competitive these schools have gotten or that their kid is one of many strong applicants. UVA doesn’t have to play the yield game. Top students, especially instate, choose to attend.

This is simply not true. A lot of them do decide to attend, sure. But for many headed to Ivies, UVA is just a safety school - and UVA knows this.

Hah! The parents may think that but they are in for a rude shock. My UVA kid chose UVA over an Ivy and never looked back. Also turned down Georgia Tech, aerospace, for UVA. You may be surprised when your kid gets deferred or waitlisted for ivies. I know of only one person who turned down UVa for an Ivy

Um, ok. I wasn't talking about my kid, or yours. Plenty of kids do indeed get into Ivies and wouldn't give UVA a second thought. You seem oddly defensive that this is so.

+1

UVA knows this = yield protection.

I do not understand why other PP thinks that everything is documented, in black and white. If one knows a large number of applicants who have gone this route, one is not going to list names on DCUM. LOL.

It would be irrational for UVA to reject in-state kids with very high stats just because those kids consider UVA to be their safeties. First, even for kids with very high stats, it is not easy to get into Ivies or similarly ranked schools. Many kids will inevitably not get in, and many of those kids living in Virginia will choose UVA (just like may top students in California who do not get into Ivies will attend Berkeley or UCLA). In fact, if a student has not withdrawn their UVA application by January, it means that the student did not get into any Ivy thorough ED. The probability that the student will get into Ivies through RD would not be high enough for UVA consider rejecting the kid to protect the yield. Second, there are families who do not want to pay for Ivies, and it would be difficult for UVA to predict which families think that Ivies are worth the additional costs. UVA would not want to lose out on the kids with very high stats who do not want to pay $300k for college education. Indeed, Naviance data do not support that UVA rejects in-state kids with very high stats to protect the yield. I just checked the Naviance data for a FCPS high school, and they show that every single student with 4.5+ GPA and 1570+ SAT was accepted.

Thank you for this. Excellent analysis.

No one really knows without real data. Naviance is probably the best source. Is there any evidence there?

It depends on the FCPS school/peer group/fellow applicants.

It would show up as rejections on the upper end of the area where admission is otherwise likely. In other words, there would be three bands: the reject/waitlist band, the accept band, and the "yield protect" band, going from lower stats to higher. Even then you would have to control for other factors like bad essays and references. I kind of doubt any Virginia public has that kind of pattern.

Would it show up at all if there were less than a few students from that school that were yield protected?

That, and I know of no school that admits to actually yield protecting.