The death of Allie Hart and the need for safer streets

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If I recall correctly, this child was riding her bike and was coming down a hill and just zipped into the intersection with dad far behind. I am a careful and slooow driver but bikes on the sidewalk are always tricky because they’re moving so much faster than pedestrians.

Read the article, please.

I did. It says she was in the intersection with her father and nothing about the bike, which we know she was riding. The article is not an accident report.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kids do dart out into the street though. When I walk with my young kids, I hold their hand. I don't let them bike or scooter because of this very scenario.

I feel very bad for her parents but I believe it was a tragic accident and that the driver didn't do anything wrong. You need to hold your young child's hand at all times on busy roads and intersections.

People don't "dart".

Also, as you say, kids are kids. They predictably behave in unpredictable ways. Why should we have to hold our young children's hands at all times, lest they be killed? Why shouldn't it be safe for kids to bike or scooter in their own neighborhoods? Why is it acceptable for streets to be unsafe - deadly - for children?

This kid sure darted. But hey, look at this driver - who is presumably talking to someone either in the car or on a cell phone, and moving at speed, who somehow avoids said darting kid anyway. Kudos to driver in this video for being aware. https://tinyurl.com/57vkrvk5

The driver who killed Allie either ran her over from a stop or rolled through a stop to do it. Either way, inexcusable to be that oblivious to surroundings. And yet... nada on charges.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If I recall correctly, this child was riding her bike and was coming down a hill and just zipped into the intersection with dad far behind. I am a careful and slooow driver but bikes on the sidewalk are always tricky because they’re moving so much faster than pedestrians.

Read the article, please.

I did. It says she was in the intersection with her father and nothing about the bike, which we know she was riding. The article is not an accident report.

You read the article, and that was your takeaway? Wow.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If I recall correctly, this child was riding her bike and was coming down a hill and just zipped into the intersection with dad far behind. I am a careful and slooow driver but bikes on the sidewalk are always tricky because they’re moving so much faster than pedestrians.

Read the article, please.

I did. It says she was in the intersection with her father and nothing about the bike, which we know she was riding. The article is not an accident report.

You read the article, and that was your takeaway? Wow.

Why are you being obtuse? I made a comment that the child rode into the intersection without stopping. You told me to read the article, which said nothing about how the accident actually happened.

I agree we need safer streets, and I know there are lots of tools that can be implemented to help pedestrians cross safely. I also think bikes (and the horrid motorized scooters) don’t belong on sidewalks, in general, because drivers are looking for pedestrians, not other vehicles. Obviously kids need to ride on the sidewalk, but they need to have a parent RIGHT there to make sure they’re safe when they are in the intersection.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There was a thread about this article on the DC sub-Reddit. One poster summed up the current situation quite well:

“As a parent of a similar-aged child, in the next neighborhood over, who always rides a bike, this is easily my biggest fear. Its probably the one thing i have actual wake-up-in-the-night nightmares about.

I don't know that this specific accident fits this, but my observation is the issue is entirely cultural and i severely doubt infrastructure improvements will do anything to stop it.

It's not run-of-the-mill speeding or distracted driving. In our area, it feels like about 1 in 100 drivers are absolute garbage human beings. Just complete c*nts. They blow thru cross walks while youre trying to cross with a kid and then yell at you; they pull into the opposite lane to go around cars to take a right on red with someone walking. They blow thru red lights 2 seconds late and flip you off. they accelerate through no left turn intersections and want to fight if you happen to be crossing.

I had some going 50 mph in residential eckington who went around me and then stopped in the middle of the road to fight (no provocation on my part).

a neighbor from a few blocks over got his eye socket broken in a road rage incident where he was a pedestrian.

there was a head-on collision at morning rush hour this Tuesday because some jerkoff was flying the wrong way up a one-way residential trying to get to rhode island ave.

i could go on and on. they almost always have Maryland plates, and they almost always are the most ignorant a**holes I've ever encountered. the main characters in their own stories, seemingly completely oblivious that you can change a families life in a split second because they're insanely irresponsible with a fast moving thousand pound piece of metal.

i really have no solution. but i can say its very taxing to have to be constantly hyper vigilant.”

And this is exactly why you have to have your eyes or hands on your kids at all times. This isn’t going to change anytime soon.

Are you serious?! THIS is the lesson you draw from this?

NP, Not sure why you are so shocked, you cannot trust the drivers, even when safety changes are made. You should always follow Defensive driving, defensive biking, defensive walking, etc.

Poster: Drivers are terrible, the roads are violent and dangerous.
Possible response 1: Yes, we need to make the roads safe.
Possible response 2: That's why you have to keep a firm grip on your children!

Response 1 and 2 are correct.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If I recall correctly, this child was riding her bike and was coming down a hill and just zipped into the intersection with dad far behind. I am a careful and slooow driver but bikes on the sidewalk are always tricky because they’re moving so much faster than pedestrians.

Read the article, please.

I did. It says she was in the intersection with her father and nothing about the bike, which we know she was riding. The article is not an accident report.

You read the article, and that was your takeaway? Wow.

Why are you being obtuse? I made a comment that the child rode into the intersection without stopping. You told me to read the article, which said nothing about how the accident actually happened.

I agree we need safer streets, and I know there are lots of tools that can be implemented to help pedestrians cross safely. I also think bikes (and the horrid motorized scooters) don’t belong on sidewalks, in general, because drivers are looking for pedestrians, not other vehicles. Obviously kids need to ride on the sidewalk, but they need to have a parent RIGHT there to make sure they’re safe when they are in the intersection.

This is an article about a child who was killed by a driver while she was bicycling in the crosswalk, and you want to make this about things parents should do to prevent drivers from killing their children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If I recall correctly, this child was riding her bike and was coming down a hill and just zipped into the intersection with dad far behind. I am a careful and slooow driver but bikes on the sidewalk are always tricky because they’re moving so much faster than pedestrians.

Read the article, please.

I did. It says she was in the intersection with her father and nothing about the bike, which we know she was riding. The article is not an accident report.

You read the article, and that was your takeaway? Wow.

Why are you being obtuse? I made a comment that the child rode into the intersection without stopping. You told me to read the article, which said nothing about how the accident actually happened.

I agree we need safer streets, and I know there are lots of tools that can be implemented to help pedestrians cross safely. I also think bikes (and the horrid motorized scooters) don’t belong on sidewalks, in general, because drivers are looking for pedestrians, not other vehicles. Obviously kids need to ride on the sidewalk, but they need to have a parent RIGHT there to make sure they’re safe when they are in the intersection.

This is an article about a child who was killed by a driver while she was bicycling in the crosswalk, and you want to make this about things parents should do to prevent drivers from killing their children.

Honestly, Allie is a poor example for this article. I get why they write about her, because it’s unbearably tragic, but her story hasn’t got much to do with the innovations they are talking about, other than the possibility of self braking cars that sense pedestrians. But she wouldn’t have been saved by a lower speed limit, since the driver was obviously not going very fast. It would have been better to focus on deaths that could have been prevented.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If I recall correctly, this child was riding her bike and was coming down a hill and just zipped into the intersection with dad far behind. I am a careful and slooow driver but bikes on the sidewalk are always tricky because they’re moving so much faster than pedestrians.

Read the article, please.

I did. It says she was in the intersection with her father and nothing about the bike, which we know she was riding. The article is not an accident report.

You read the article, and that was your takeaway? Wow.

Why are you being obtuse? I made a comment that the child rode into the intersection without stopping. You told me to read the article, which said nothing about how the accident actually happened.

I agree we need safer streets, and I know there are lots of tools that can be implemented to help pedestrians cross safely. I also think bikes (and the horrid motorized scooters) don’t belong on sidewalks, in general, because drivers are looking for pedestrians, not other vehicles. Obviously kids need to ride on the sidewalk, but they need to have a parent RIGHT there to make sure they’re safe when they are in the intersection.

This is an article about a child who was killed by a driver while she was bicycling in the crosswalk, and you want to make this about things parents should do to prevent drivers from killing their children.

Honestly, Allie is a poor example for this article. I get why they write about her, because it’s unbearably tragic, but her story hasn’t got much to do with the innovations they are talking about, other than the possibility of self braking cars that sense pedestrians. But she wouldn’t have been saved by a lower speed limit, since the driver was obviously not going very fast. It would have been better to focus on deaths that could have been prevented.

We have no idea how fast the driver was going. A red light camera or pedestrian bump-outs might have helped.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If I recall correctly, this child was riding her bike and was coming down a hill and just zipped into the intersection with dad far behind. I am a careful and slooow driver but bikes on the sidewalk are always tricky because they’re moving so much faster than pedestrians.

Read the article, please.

I did. It says she was in the intersection with her father and nothing about the bike, which we know she was riding. The article is not an accident report.

You read the article, and that was your takeaway? Wow.

Why are you being obtuse? I made a comment that the child rode into the intersection without stopping. You told me to read the article, which said nothing about how the accident actually happened.

I agree we need safer streets, and I know there are lots of tools that can be implemented to help pedestrians cross safely. I also think bikes (and the horrid motorized scooters) don’t belong on sidewalks, in general, because drivers are looking for pedestrians, not other vehicles. Obviously kids need to ride on the sidewalk, but they need to have a parent RIGHT there to make sure they’re safe when they are in the intersection.

This is an article about a child who was killed by a driver while she was bicycling in the crosswalk, and you want to make this about things parents should do to prevent drivers from killing their children.

Honestly, Allie is a poor example for this article. I get why they write about her, because it’s unbearably tragic, but her story hasn’t got much to do with the innovations they are talking about, other than the possibility of self braking cars that sense pedestrians. But she wouldn’t have been saved by a lower speed limit, since the driver was obviously not going very fast. It would have been better to focus on deaths that could have been prevented.

False. Here is the type of design that protects pedestrians and bikers: https://bicycledutch.wordpress.com/2018/02/20/a-common-urban-intersection-in-the-netherlands/

[Anonymous]

A red light camera would not have helped, but the bump outs would. We should have those around the schools at a minimum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If I recall correctly, this child was riding her bike and was coming down a hill and just zipped into the intersection with dad far behind. I am a careful and slooow driver but bikes on the sidewalk are always tricky because they’re moving so much faster than pedestrians.

Read the article, please.

I did. It says she was in the intersection with her father and nothing about the bike, which we know she was riding. The article is not an accident report.

You read the article, and that was your takeaway? Wow.

Why are you being obtuse? I made a comment that the child rode into the intersection without stopping. You told me to read the article, which said nothing about how the accident actually happened.

I agree we need safer streets, and I know there are lots of tools that can be implemented to help pedestrians cross safely. I also think bikes (and the horrid motorized scooters) don’t belong on sidewalks, in general, because drivers are looking for pedestrians, not other vehicles. Obviously kids need to ride on the sidewalk, but they need to have a parent RIGHT there to make sure they’re safe when they are in the intersection.

This is an article about a child who was killed by a driver while she was bicycling in the crosswalk, and you want to make this about things parents should do to prevent drivers from killing their children.

Honestly, Allie is a poor example for this article. I get why they write about her, because it’s unbearably tragic, but her story hasn’t got much to do with the innovations they are talking about, other than the possibility of self braking cars that sense pedestrians. But she wouldn’t have been saved by a lower speed limit, since the driver was obviously not going very fast. It would have been better to focus on deaths that could have been prevented.

False. Here is the type of design that protects pedestrians and bikers: https://bicycledutch.wordpress.com/2018/02/20/a-common-urban-intersection-in-the-netherlands/

Unfortunately the article being discussed doesn’t mention these at all.

[Anonymous]

I think the person who mentioned the gig economy is onto something - we have uber drivers and door dashers who are incentivized to speed and make rash decisions and the infernal Amazon prime deliveries who are either double parked or driving like bats out of hell.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If I recall correctly, this child was riding her bike and was coming down a hill and just zipped into the intersection with dad far behind. I am a careful and slooow driver but bikes on the sidewalk are always tricky because they’re moving so much faster than pedestrians.

Read the article, please.

I did. It says she was in the intersection with her father and nothing about the bike, which we know she was riding. The article is not an accident report.

You read the article, and that was your takeaway? Wow.

Why are you being obtuse? I made a comment that the child rode into the intersection without stopping. You told me to read the article, which said nothing about how the accident actually happened.

I agree we need safer streets, and I know there are lots of tools that can be implemented to help pedestrians cross safely. I also think bikes (and the horrid motorized scooters) don’t belong on sidewalks, in general, because drivers are looking for pedestrians, not other vehicles. Obviously kids need to ride on the sidewalk, but they need to have a parent RIGHT there to make sure they’re safe when they are in the intersection.

This is an article about a child who was killed by a driver while she was bicycling in the crosswalk, and you want to make this about things parents should do to prevent drivers from killing their children.

Honestly, Allie is a poor example for this article. I get why they write about her, because it’s unbearably tragic, but her story hasn’t got much to do with the innovations they are talking about, other than the possibility of self braking cars that sense pedestrians. But she wouldn’t have been saved by a lower speed limit, since the driver was obviously not going very fast. It would have been better to focus on deaths that could have been prevented.

False. Here is the type of design that protects pedestrians and bikers: https://bicycledutch.wordpress.com/2018/02/20/a-common-urban-intersection-in-the-netherlands/

Unfortunately the article being discussed doesn’t mention these at all.

OK well let’s discuss this one?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There was a thread about this article on the DC sub-Reddit. One poster summed up the current situation quite well:

“As a parent of a similar-aged child, in the next neighborhood over, who always rides a bike, this is easily my biggest fear. Its probably the one thing i have actual wake-up-in-the-night nightmares about.

I don't know that this specific accident fits this, but my observation is the issue is entirely cultural and i severely doubt infrastructure improvements will do anything to stop it.

It's not run-of-the-mill speeding or distracted driving. In our area, it feels like about 1 in 100 drivers are absolute garbage human beings. Just complete c*nts. They blow thru cross walks while youre trying to cross with a kid and then yell at you; they pull into the opposite lane to go around cars to take a right on red with someone walking. They blow thru red lights 2 seconds late and flip you off. they accelerate through no left turn intersections and want to fight if you happen to be crossing.

I had some going 50 mph in residential eckington who went around me and then stopped in the middle of the road to fight (no provocation on my part).

a neighbor from a few blocks over got his eye socket broken in a road rage incident where he was a pedestrian.

there was a head-on collision at morning rush hour this Tuesday because some jerkoff was flying the wrong way up a one-way residential trying to get to rhode island ave.

i could go on and on. they almost always have Maryland plates, and they almost always are the most ignorant a**holes I've ever encountered. the main characters in their own stories, seemingly completely oblivious that you can change a families life in a split second because they're insanely irresponsible with a fast moving thousand pound piece of metal.

i really have no solution. but i can say its very taxing to have to be constantly hyper vigilant.”

And this is exactly why you have to have your eyes or hands on your kids at all times. This isn’t going to change anytime soon.

Are you serious?! THIS is the lesson you draw from this?

NP, Not sure why you are so shocked, you cannot trust the drivers, even when safety changes are made. You should always follow Defensive driving, defensive biking, defensive walking, etc.

Poster: Drivers are terrible, the roads are violent and dangerous.
Possible response 1: Yes, we need to make the roads safe.
Possible response 2: That's why you have to keep a firm grip on your children!

Response 1 and 2 are correct.

Agree. It’s not an either/or.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If I recall correctly, this child was riding her bike and was coming down a hill and just zipped into the intersection with dad far behind. I am a careful and slooow driver but bikes on the sidewalk are always tricky because they’re moving so much faster than pedestrians.

Read the article, please.

I did. It says she was in the intersection with her father and nothing about the bike, which we know she was riding. The article is not an accident report.

You read the article, and that was your takeaway? Wow.

Why are you being obtuse? I made a comment that the child rode into the intersection without stopping. You told me to read the article, which said nothing about how the accident actually happened.

I agree we need safer streets, and I know there are lots of tools that can be implemented to help pedestrians cross safely. I also think bikes (and the horrid motorized scooters) don’t belong on sidewalks, in general, because drivers are looking for pedestrians, not other vehicles. Obviously kids need to ride on the sidewalk, but they need to have a parent RIGHT there to make sure they’re safe when they are in the intersection.

This is an article about a child who was killed by a driver while she was bicycling in the crosswalk, and you want to make this about things parents should do to prevent drivers from killing their children.

Honestly, Allie is a poor example for this article. I get why they write about her, because it’s unbearably tragic, but her story hasn’t got much to do with the innovations they are talking about, other than the possibility of self braking cars that sense pedestrians. But she wouldn’t have been saved by a lower speed limit, since the driver was obviously not going very fast. It would have been better to focus on deaths that could have been prevented.

False. Here is the type of design that protects pedestrians and bikers: https://bicycledutch.wordpress.com/2018/02/20/a-common-urban-intersection-in-the-netherlands/

How do we fit this into existing smaller roads? I like it, but how do you fit this into a regular residential DC street?