Grand Jury report on LCPS sexual assault cases is unsealed

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There was an email sent by a TA that raised concerns over student behaviors that she/he saw. The dept. chair claims to be confused and thought it could just be that the TA was afraid of Covid and illness. But didn’t care enough to clarify. Informed the case manager who also didn’t talk to the TA to ask any questions. The AP says it’s just a classroom management problem, but didn’t offer to do help or do anything. I guess the lowly paid assistant was supposed to handle all that.

It’s commonplace for admins to throw teachers and assistants under the bus and ignore problems. In my experience, I have met very very few admins who actually cared about their employees. But what is shocking to me is that the TA was ignored by other teachers. Teachers - who are also low paid, and constantly disrespected by admins, students and parents - didn’t care about the fellow TA’s concerns at all. They brushed it off. No one even offered to give the TA support, or to even tell them to talk to a counselor who could talk to the student, anything. They did nothing for another staff member who was low on the totem pole like they are.

As far as the administrators - what did they know about the previous issues? I assume the principal at least would know what was going on. No one warned the teachers or TAs involved? They just threw the student in their classes without any guidance? That’s not surprising at all. Because they don’t have to deal with the student, they don’t care. How can any teacher or TA continue to work for these people? These admins who knowingly put them in a horrible situation without warning while they themselves are armed with way more information and knowledge about the danger that is walking around in their school.

Also, who was the person who got fired? Was it the TA? Another teacher? Admin?

The person who got fired and the reason Ziegler has misdemeanor charges has nothing to do with the stone bridge assault case. A teacher at Rosa Lee Carter elementary reported that a disabled 5th grader had groped her multiple times. When nothing was done she spoke at the school board meeting about it. She was later reprimanded and fired. For that reason, Ziegler was charged with retaliation and intimidation. That teacher currently has a suit against him/LCPS/her former principal.

So as employees we have learned you’re damned if you do report student concerns and damned if you don’t. Nothing will be done about it either but somehow if something ends up happening with that student, it’ll end up coming back on us. Good to know.

And that is why he will be exonerated. She wasn’t fired in retaliation. She was fired for violating student privacy rights.

Agree. These are such weak charges. I think the entire case will fall apart in an embarrassing way. The superintendent may have made serious mistakes and shown poor leadership under the circumstances, but not seeing the basis for criminal prosecution here. It just seems like a politically motivated attack on a school system the administration was already targeting. And highly suspicious that no law enforcement is being held accountable for their role.

[Anonymous]

yikes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:While I am totally enraged with LCPS, I am also enraged with the Sherriff’s and court’s handling of this as well. The boy’s grandmother told them she didn’t think they understood how bad it was and that the boy was a “sociopath.” The court said he couldn’t return to Stone Bridge but it was fine to send him somewhere else? He anally raped a girl!!

Yeah. This is the thing that got to me too.

What if gets a gun? What next could happen?

This is just… it’s bad.

[Anonymous]

This whole situation brings up a number of tricky questions, especially surrounding the rights of the accused.

1) What should happen to a student who has been observed to be acting in an inappropriate manner, but not in a rule-breaking way?

2) What should happen if the school has been contacted by family with concerns about the student's behavior?

3) What should happen to a student who is accused of a serious crime?

I'm not sure that I have a good answer for any of these. I'm not exonerating LCPS or the cops, clearly there were serious mistakes made, but I empathize a bit with their plight, in that you can't just kick a kid out of school for questionable behavior. And for #3, what if it was later found that the first encounter was consensual all the way through? Does the student get to come back?

Remember, under the Title IX rules instituted under the Trump administration, the accused are presumed to be innocent throughout the disciplinary process.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This whole situation brings up a number of tricky questions, especially surrounding the rights of the accused.

1) What should happen to a student who has been observed to be acting in an inappropriate manner, but not in a rule-breaking way?

2) What should happen if the school has been contacted by family with concerns about the student's behavior?

3) What should happen to a student who is accused of a serious crime?

I'm not sure that I have a good answer for any of these. I'm not exonerating LCPS or the cops, clearly there were serious mistakes made, but I empathize a bit with their plight, in that you can't just kick a kid out of school for questionable behavior. And for #3, what if it was later found that the first encounter was consensual all the way through? Does the student get to come back?

Remember, under the Title IX rules instituted under the Trump administration, the accused are presumed to be innocent throughout the disciplinary process.

The grand jury report points out, there was no title IX investigation until very late.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This whole situation brings up a number of tricky questions, especially surrounding the rights of the accused.

1) What should happen to a student who has been observed to be acting in an inappropriate manner, but not in a rule-breaking way?

2) What should happen if the school has been contacted by family with concerns about the student's behavior?

3) What should happen to a student who is accused of a serious crime?

I'm not sure that I have a good answer for any of these. I'm not exonerating LCPS or the cops, clearly there were serious mistakes made, but I empathize a bit with their plight, in that you can't just kick a kid out of school for questionable behavior. And for #3, what if it was later found that the first encounter was consensual all the way through? Does the student get to come back?

Remember, under the Title IX rules instituted under the Trump administration, the accused are presumed to be innocent throughout the disciplinary process.

I think there has not been enough scrutiny on the admins at that school. The superintendent is the one in the spotlight but the ones running the school basically left their teachers and assistants out to dry.

They’re the ones who knew about the situation and allowed their employees, who knew nothing of the events, to handle a student who had to leave a previous school due to serious accusations. They didn’t give them any support despite having knowledge that the teachers and TAs don’t have any access to.

Did the superintendent forced this school to accept the transfer? Did he force them to ignore the TA? There was the art teacher who reported that 2 female students asked to be moved away because they felt uncomfortable. Did anything else happen? Did anyone follow up with those students who felt uncomfortable?

What is very concerning is that the AP’s response to the TA’s email is that “it’s a classroom management issue.” Basically washing his hands of the situation and implying that the TA is supposed to be able to handle that. If that’s the case, then what is their job? If an employee describes an inappropriate incident that made them feel uncomfortable, and all they get is an admin saying “Not my problem. You just need to have better classroom management skills!” Imagine how demoralizing it is. You bought up concerns and now you’re told it is a YOU problem because you don’t have classroom management skills. Did the superintendent force this AP to ignore the TA and make it sound like it was their fault the kids are acting like that? I doubt it. They acted on their own accord and decided they didn’t care about their employee’s concerns.

Is that why the other TA who went into the bathroom didn’t notify anyone? Because there is a culture of admins ignoring inappropriate behavior?

I think the case doesn’t just highlight issues around the rights of the accused, it also highlights how the people who are lowest on the totem pole like subs, TAs, and teachers are often forced to deal with the toughest situations on their own with no support. And then they get ignored when they voice concerns so they have to continue working in an uncomfortable environment. Meanwhile, where were the administrators?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There was an email sent by a TA that raised concerns over student behaviors that she/he saw. The dept. chair claims to be confused and thought it could just be that the TA was afraid of Covid and illness. But didn’t care enough to clarify. Informed the case manager who also didn’t talk to the TA to ask any questions. The AP says it’s just a classroom management problem, but didn’t offer to do help or do anything. I guess the lowly paid assistant was supposed to handle all that.

It’s commonplace for admins to throw teachers and assistants under the bus and ignore problems. In my experience, I have met very very few admins who actually cared about their employees. But what is shocking to me is that the TA was ignored by other teachers. Teachers - who are also low paid, and constantly disrespected by admins, students and parents - didn’t care about the fellow TA’s concerns at all. They brushed it off. No one even offered to give the TA support, or to even tell them to talk to a counselor who could talk to the student, anything. They did nothing for another staff member who was low on the totem pole like they are.

As far as the administrators - what did they know about the previous issues? I assume the principal at least would know what was going on. No one warned the teachers or TAs involved? They just threw the student in their classes without any guidance? That’s not surprising at all. Because they don’t have to deal with the student, they don’t care. How can any teacher or TA continue to work for these people? These admins who knowingly put them in a horrible situation without warning while they themselves are armed with way more information and knowledge about the danger that is walking around in their school.

Also, who was the person who got fired? Was it the TA? Another teacher? Admin?

The guy who calls when school is closed for snow.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This whole situation brings up a number of tricky questions, especially surrounding the rights of the accused.

1) What should happen to a student who has been observed to be acting in an inappropriate manner, but not in a rule-breaking way?

2) What should happen if the school has been contacted by family with concerns about the student's behavior?

3) What should happen to a student who is accused of a serious crime?

I'm not sure that I have a good answer for any of these. I'm not exonerating LCPS or the cops, clearly there were serious mistakes made, but I empathize a bit with their plight, in that you can't just kick a kid out of school for questionable behavior. And for #3, what if it was later found that the first encounter was consensual all the way through? Does the student get to come back?

Remember, under the Title IX rules instituted under the Trump administration, the accused are presumed to be innocent throughout the disciplinary process.

I think there has not been enough scrutiny on the admins at that school. The superintendent is the one in the spotlight but the ones running the school basically left their teachers and assistants out to dry.

They’re the ones who knew about the situation and allowed their employees, who knew nothing of the events, to handle a student who had to leave a previous school due to serious accusations. They didn’t give them any support despite having knowledge that the teachers and TAs don’t have any access to.

Did the superintendent forced this school to accept the transfer? Did he force them to ignore the TA? There was the art teacher who reported that 2 female students asked to be moved away because they felt uncomfortable. Did anything else happen? Did anyone follow up with those students who felt uncomfortable?

What is very concerning is that the AP’s response to the TA’s email is that “it’s a classroom management issue.” Basically washing his hands of the situation and implying that the TA is supposed to be able to handle that. If that’s the case, then what is their job? If an employee describes an inappropriate incident that made them feel uncomfortable, and all they get is an admin saying “Not my problem. You just need to have better classroom management skills!” Imagine how demoralizing it is. You bought up concerns and now you’re told it is a YOU problem because you don’t have classroom management skills. Did the superintendent force this AP to ignore the TA and make it sound like it was their fault the kids are acting like that? I doubt it. They acted on their own accord and decided they didn’t care about their employee’s concerns.

Is that why the other TA who went into the bathroom didn’t notify anyone? Because there is a culture of admins ignoring inappropriate behavior?

I think the case doesn’t just highlight issues around the rights of the accused, it also highlights how the people who are lowest on the totem pole like subs, TAs, and teachers are often forced to deal with the toughest situations on their own with no support. And then they get ignored when they voice concerns so they have to continue working in an uncomfortable environment. Meanwhile, where were the administrators?

AGREE!!! I think a huge part of the blame lies with BOTH of these principals for doing almost nothing. IANAL but seems criminally negligent to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This whole situation brings up a number of tricky questions, especially surrounding the rights of the accused.

1) What should happen to a student who has been observed to be acting in an inappropriate manner, but not in a rule-breaking way?

2) What should happen if the school has been contacted by family with concerns about the student's behavior?

3) What should happen to a student who is accused of a serious crime?

I'm not sure that I have a good answer for any of these. I'm not exonerating LCPS or the cops, clearly there were serious mistakes made, but I empathize a bit with their plight, in that you can't just kick a kid out of school for questionable behavior. And for #3, what if it was later found that the first encounter was consensual all the way through? Does the student get to come back?

Remember, under the Title IX rules instituted under the Trump administration, the accused are presumed to be innocent throughout the disciplinary process.

I think there has not been enough scrutiny on the admins at that school. The superintendent is the one in the spotlight but the ones running the school basically left their teachers and assistants out to dry.

They’re the ones who knew about the situation and allowed their employees, who knew nothing of the events, to handle a student who had to leave a previous school due to serious accusations. They didn’t give them any support despite having knowledge that the teachers and TAs don’t have any access to.

Did the superintendent forced this school to accept the transfer? Did he force them to ignore the TA? There was the art teacher who reported that 2 female students asked to be moved away because they felt uncomfortable. Did anything else happen? Did anyone follow up with those students who felt uncomfortable?

What is very concerning is that the AP’s response to the TA’s email is that “it’s a classroom management issue.” Basically washing his hands of the situation and implying that the TA is supposed to be able to handle that. If that’s the case, then what is their job? If an employee describes an inappropriate incident that made them feel uncomfortable, and all they get is an admin saying “Not my problem. You just need to have better classroom management skills!” Imagine how demoralizing it is. You bought up concerns and now you’re told it is a YOU problem because you don’t have classroom management skills. Did the superintendent force this AP to ignore the TA and make it sound like it was their fault the kids are acting like that? I doubt it. They acted on their own accord and decided they didn’t care about their employee’s concerns.

Is that why the other TA who went into the bathroom didn’t notify anyone? Because there is a culture of admins ignoring inappropriate behavior?

I think the case doesn’t just highlight issues around the rights of the accused, it also highlights how the people who are lowest on the totem pole like subs, TAs, and teachers are often forced to deal with the toughest situations on their own with no support. And then they get ignored when they voice concerns so they have to continue working in an uncomfortable environment. Meanwhile, where were the administrators?

AGREE!!! I think a huge part of the blame lies with BOTH of these principals for doing almost nothing. IANAL but seems criminally negligent to me.

It is completely negligent. They are nowhere to be found besides the response to the email where the AP pushed all the responsibilities onto the TA claiming it was a classroom management problem. That’s the only thing they did. It is hard to not put the majority of the blame on them when they ignored a cry for help from a TA. They were in charge of running this school, and yet here they didn’t do anything.

If they were smart, they could pretend to do “something.” Even if the gestures were meaningless, they could have offered to do something. They could say, “let me talk to the student.” Or “let me have the counselor talk to them.” Or “let me come in and observe your class, and I can give you some strategies on how to handle these things.” At least then, they could have said, “well, I tried to help.”

But they are so lazy that the only thing they did for this TA was say that it’s a classroom management problem. Basically, it’s not their problem at all. There’s nothing they can do to help. Or if there were, they’re not going to waste time following up on a complaint made by an assistant. The way everyone treated the assistant was horrible. Not just the admin, but the teachers didn’t give a hoot. The department chair claiming to be “confused” and thinking that the TA was afraid of Covid was just hilarious. Nope, this TA can’t possibly be concerned about the inappropriate behaviors because they were inappropriate. They must be concerned about the behaviors because they’re afraid of getting sick!! What kind of logic is this??

The superintendent had nothing to do with how this incident was handled at the school level. He had other issues, but I doubt he forced the admins and the other teachers to ignore the email. Or to come up with dumb reasons as to why no one cared enough about a fellow employee to follow up on her complaint.

I don’t know how all these people got off without any scrutiny on their actions and inactions. All the discussions are centered on the superintendent, but I think the vast majority of blame should be on the administrators of the school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not sure these criminal charges will stick. And the public information officer charged with perjury? It seems very politically motivated by Youngkin/Miyares. Guess we’ll see.

Agree. And will make the next guy's job that much harder (and finding him/her).

Between attacks on teachers and now criminal charges against school administrators, who on earth would want to work in the VA public education system right now? It’s all part of Youngkin’s strategy to dismantle public schools and privatize education.

If that school system involves protecting sexual predators I see nothing wrong with dismantling said system. I have one kid in public school and one in private. The private will toss your ass without so much as a refund right out of the school for behavior wayy lees that sexual assault. That’s the way it should be. If you are a predator or even severely disruptive you need to be warehoused a school with all the other low life losers going down the road to nowhere to be a nobody.

[Anonymous]

If you saw the kind of nonsense the CA has been pulling since she's been elected, you wouldn't talk to her either. Ask the partners of the people she's not charging for DV how they feel when the partner comes right back and injures them again.

[Anonymous]

so what are schools supposed to do with kids like this, whose own mother and grandmother warned the school about?

and when does this known sociopath get released?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:so what are schools supposed to do with kids like this, whose own mother and grandmother warned the school about?

and when does this known sociopath get released?

They used to be able to transfer them to the alternative school.

My neighbor was the AP at the alternative school for years. Rules there were different. When the students were mouthy, the teachers were mouthy right back. Teachers were never left alone with students. Students were never left alone. Bathrooms were locked. Classrooms were locked when not in use. When a student physically assaulted a teacher or another student, the police were called and charges were pressed.

We need to go back to that. We need to go back to not believing that everyone deserves a free public education.

If a student can't behave in a normal school classroom, send 'em out.

I would have saved thousands on therapy for my kid who suffered from PTSD and anxiety due to a maniac kid in her classroom in 4th grade. They had to evacuate the classroom weekly. He destroyed property on more than one occasion. He also hit the teacher multiple times. My kid was basically so anxious all day waiting for one of his outbursts to happen that she made herself sick with a constant upset stomach. There was nothing the school could do according to them. The admins all said their hands were tied.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This whole situation brings up a number of tricky questions, especially surrounding the rights of the accused.

1) What should happen to a student who has been observed to be acting in an inappropriate manner, but not in a rule-breaking way?

2) What should happen if the school has been contacted by family with concerns about the student's behavior?

3) What should happen to a student who is accused of a serious crime?

I'm not sure that I have a good answer for any of these. I'm not exonerating LCPS or the cops, clearly there were serious mistakes made, but I empathize a bit with their plight, in that you can't just kick a kid out of school for questionable behavior. And for #3, what if it was later found that the first encounter was consensual all the way through? Does the student get to come back?

Remember, under the Title IX rules instituted under the Trump administration, the accused are presumed to be innocent throughout the disciplinary process.

I think there has not been enough scrutiny on the admins at that school. The superintendent is the one in the spotlight but the ones running the school basically left their teachers and assistants out to dry.

They’re the ones who knew about the situation and allowed their employees, who knew nothing of the events, to handle a student who had to leave a previous school due to serious accusations. They didn’t give them any support despite having knowledge that the teachers and TAs don’t have any access to.

Did the superintendent forced this school to accept the transfer? Did he force them to ignore the TA? There was the art teacher who reported that 2 female students asked to be moved away because they felt uncomfortable. Did anything else happen? Did anyone follow up with those students who felt uncomfortable?

What is very concerning is that the AP’s response to the TA’s email is that “it’s a classroom management issue.” Basically washing his hands of the situation and implying that the TA is supposed to be able to handle that. If that’s the case, then what is their job? If an employee describes an inappropriate incident that made them feel uncomfortable, and all they get is an admin saying “Not my problem. You just need to have better classroom management skills!” Imagine how demoralizing it is. You bought up concerns and now you’re told it is a YOU problem because you don’t have classroom management skills. Did the superintendent force this AP to ignore the TA and make it sound like it was their fault the kids are acting like that? I doubt it. They acted on their own accord and decided they didn’t care about their employee’s concerns.

Is that why the other TA who went into the bathroom didn’t notify anyone? Because there is a culture of admins ignoring inappropriate behavior?

I think the case doesn’t just highlight issues around the rights of the accused, it also highlights how the people who are lowest on the totem pole like subs, TAs, and teachers are often forced to deal with the toughest situations on their own with no support. And then they get ignored when they voice concerns so they have to continue working in an uncomfortable environment. Meanwhile, where were the administrators?

AGREE!!! I think a huge part of the blame lies with BOTH of these principals for doing almost nothing. IANAL but seems criminally negligent to me.

It is completely negligent. They are nowhere to be found besides the response to the email where the AP pushed all the responsibilities onto the TA claiming it was a classroom management problem. That’s the only thing they did. It is hard to not put the majority of the blame on them when they ignored a cry for help from a TA. They were in charge of running this school, and yet here they didn’t do anything.

If they were smart, they could pretend to do “something.” Even if the gestures were meaningless, they could have offered to do something. They could say, “let me talk to the student.” Or “let me have the counselor talk to them.” Or “let me come in and observe your class, and I can give you some strategies on how to handle these things.” At least then, they could have said, “well, I tried to help.”

But they are so lazy that the only thing they did for this TA was say that it’s a classroom management problem. Basically, it’s not their problem at all. There’s nothing they can do to help. Or if there were, they’re not going to waste time following up on a complaint made by an assistant. The way everyone treated the assistant was horrible. Not just the admin, but the teachers didn’t give a hoot. The department chair claiming to be “confused” and thinking that the TA was afraid of Covid was just hilarious. Nope, this TA can’t possibly be concerned about the inappropriate behaviors because they were inappropriate. They must be concerned about the behaviors because they’re afraid of getting sick!! What kind of logic is this??

The superintendent had nothing to do with how this incident was handled at the school level. He had other issues, but I doubt he forced the admins and the other teachers to ignore the email. Or to come up with dumb reasons as to why no one cared enough about a fellow employee to follow up on her complaint.

I don’t know how all these people got off without any scrutiny on their actions and inactions. All the discussions are centered on the superintendent, but I think the vast majority of blame should be on the administrators of the school.

Ziegler’s blame lies in how this was handled with the public, the families involved, and in joy insuring that principal number 2 was FULLY briefed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not sure these criminal charges will stick. And the public information officer charged with perjury? It seems very politically motivated by Youngkin/Miyares. Guess we’ll see.

Agree. And will make the next guy's job that much harder (and finding him/her).

Between attacks on teachers and now criminal charges against school administrators, who on earth would want to work in the VA public education system right now? It’s all part of Youngkin’s strategy to dismantle public schools and privatize education.

If that school system involves protecting sexual predators I see nothing wrong with dismantling said system. I have one kid in public school and one in private. The private will toss your ass without so much as a refund right out of the school for behavior wayy lees that sexual assault. That’s the way it should be. If you are a predator or even severely disruptive you need to be warehoused a school with all the other low life losers going down the road to nowhere to be a nobody.

I agree. My kids would be in private if I could get my husband to agree. But if we continue down the path we are on, in a generation only poor people and special needs will be in public school.