William and Mary

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I am confused about the data on here. Kid has perfect 4.0 unweighted (so that would mean all A’s) and a ton of AP classes if weighted GPA is a 4.7. From a good Montgomery County school. And test scores are 1570, with good extra curriculars (I am going to take that to mean a leadership position and long term involvement in some activity).

And the OOS and In-state admit rates are about 10% difference (40% and 30% roughly). Wouldn’t this kid have a decent shot? There are posters who said kids got in with a 1360 SAT and another with a C.

I understand ED would be a surer bet, instate is better, and the kid needs to demonstrate interest, but wouldn’t RD at least be considered a match?

I understood the public schools give a 4 for a B in an advanced class. So not necessarily straight As. I know, those of us with unweighted scores don’t get this. That is not straight a stats, right OP?

I'm OP. Yes, straight As from MCPS school.

This is just personal observation, but it seems like WM takes so many kids from NOVA publics and has so few OOS slots that they have higher standards from DC-MD kids than kids from other areas of the country. It’s like they don’t want to be a DMV majority/ regional school, and the NOVA part of that equation is not negotiable. They want to be a national U, so regional diversity plays a role. So a NY or CA (or Midwest!) kid may be more attractive than a MoCo kid. I don’t have numbers to back that up, but it tracks with what I’ve seen.

Remember, a WM class is 1600-1700 kids. Last year, they took 66 kids from MD. The whole state, not just MoCo.

https://www.wm.edu/admission/undergraduateadmission/facts-figures/class-profile/

This makes sense to me (unforunately, as an MCPS parent). OP's stats seem good enough for OOS RD ... but maybe not from Maryland. Maybe yes from other less represented states. Ugh.

They are certainly good enough, but just like those stats are good enough for Harvard, that doesn't mean that the student will get in. There is just a lot of competition, so there is a certain element of luck involved.

This. It’s a teach still. And OP has et mentioned whether or not the most rigorous box will be checked off. Also I’m not seeing stellar EVs. W&am likes to see a well-rounded applicant so looks for community service, Eagle Scout, national awards etc. grapes and Sat/Act don’t cut it alone.

Let’s not go overboard here. Most kids anywhere do not have Eagle Scout and National level awards, and they certainly are not necessary to gain admittance at W&M or at UVA, both excellent schools. Agree that being well rounded is a good thing but that can mean being a strong student plus … enjoying running and spending a lot of time babysitting … or being on the swim team and enjoying reading … or yes it can mean national science award winner … or a million variations.


O

OP said "not amazing ECs" which probably means zero. W&M wants to see stellar ECs. Period. You can be contrary all you want, but that's what they want to see.

[Anonymous]

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You are readings things into my post I did not say, nor think. Nowhere did I claim their 'the most' or 'the only".
Of course there are polite kids at hundreds of other schools too (would be silly to claim differently) , but can't one be happy and share a positive event?

Not everything is a competition in life.

+1

+1. I appreciated your post. My DC applied ED to William & Mary and I enjoyed reading about the polite kids at the school.

Me too. It was a cute story. Some folks just like to be mad.

DP, but the Hogworts Express is a feel good NOVA- WM tradition— and it’s one that I looks forward to. It’s unusual to have a large number of kids all coming home to the same station via railroad in 2023– but man does it beat sitting on 95 to Williamsburg and back. There are hundreds of parents waiting eagerly for the train to arrive so they can see their kid. Then hundreds of kids pouring off the train, still talking with friends and roomates they had travelled with. Lots of hugging. Families reunited for the holidays. It a great way to start a break or holiday. And yes, I’m glad that my kid has kind peers— and that the kids represent the school well.

I have to agree it’s hard to see what about this antidote about an informal WM/ NOVA tradition pisses some people off. Of course other schools have kids who are kind and polite. And of course other schools have feel good traditiona, formal and informal. But, this thread is about WM.

FYI - there are TONS of VCU, ODU, CNU and NSU kids on that train as well.

NP. I can’t even believe I’m weighing in on this, but ODU and NSU kids would not get on the train in Williamsburg. The trains that leave Norfolk are not the same ones that go through W’burg. But I’m sure their students are very polite, too. Ok, carry on.

Yes, they are. And PP was taking about them getting off the train in ALX, not on (see “crying parents”).

No, they’re not. I live in Norfolk and take the train frequently. While ODU and NSU kids can definitely get off the train on ALX, they would not be on the same train as the W&M kids who got on in W’burg. Completely different tracks until you get to Richmond.

Also, UVA students? Why on earth would a UVA student drive 2 hours to get on a train in W’burg when there’s one that leaves right from Charlottesville? Again, different tracks.

Well, first they wouldn't drive because they were training up to DC and would have had to leave car in Williamsburg. And to answer the question, to visit friends and girlfriend. UVA students aren't allowed to go to Williamsburg?

In the context of this ridiculous thread, your one UVA student on the train means nothing. In general, UVA students would not be on that particular train to get home for Thanksgiving.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does an MCPS/W cluster boy with a 4.0/4.7 GPA and 1570 SAT, good but not amazing ECs and no other hooks have a chance of getting in RD at William and Mary?
Thanks.

OP, the entering class last year at the 75th percentile had a 4.51 and a 1520, so you are looking at the top 25% of the enrolled class. https://research.schev.edu//enrollment/B10_FreshmenProfile.asp. The stats are higher for accepted because a number of accepted students peel off for UVA, privates and other OOS publics. That's all good but you must check with the college advisor and find out if they are checking off the "most rigorous" box and you need to get some ECS. W&M is not a safety for anyone anymore. Good luck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am confused about the data on here. Kid has perfect 4.0 unweighted (so that would mean all A’s) and a ton of AP classes if weighted GPA is a 4.7. From a good Montgomery County school. And test scores are 1570, with good extra curriculars (I am going to take that to mean a leadership position and long term involvement in some activity).

And the OOS and In-state admit rates are about 10% difference (40% and 30% roughly). Wouldn’t this kid have a decent shot? There are posters who said kids got in with a 1360 SAT and another with a C.

I understand ED would be a surer bet, instate is better, and the kid needs to demonstrate interest, but wouldn’t RD at least be considered a match?

I understood the public schools give a 4 for a B in an advanced class. So not necessarily straight As. I know, those of us with unweighted scores don’t get this. That is not straight a stats, right OP?

I'm OP. Yes, straight As from MCPS school.

This is just personal observation, but it seems like WM takes so many kids from NOVA publics and has so few OOS slots that they have higher standards from DC-MD kids than kids from other areas of the country. It’s like they don’t want to be a DMV majority/ regional school, and the NOVA part of that equation is not negotiable. They want to be a national U, so regional diversity plays a role. So a NY or CA (or Midwest!) kid may be more attractive than a MoCo kid. I don’t have numbers to back that up, but it tracks with what I’ve seen.

Remember, a WM class is 1600-1700 kids. Last year, they took 66 kids from MD. The whole state, not just MoCo.

https://www.wm.edu/admission/undergraduateadmission/facts-figures/class-profile/

This makes sense to me (unforunately, as an MCPS parent). OP's stats seem good enough for OOS RD ... but maybe not from Maryland. Maybe yes from other less represented states. Ugh.

They are certainly good enough, but just like those stats are good enough for Harvard, that doesn't mean that the student will get in. There is just a lot of competition, so there is a certain element of luck involved.

This. It’s a teach still. And OP has et mentioned whether or not the most rigorous box will be checked off. Also I’m not seeing stellar EVs. W&am likes to see a well-rounded applicant so looks for community service, Eagle Scout, national awards etc. grapes and Sat/Act don’t cut it alone.

Let’s not go overboard here. Most kids anywhere do not have Eagle Scout and National level awards, and they certainly are not necessary to gain admittance at W&M or at UVA, both excellent schools. Agree that being well rounded is a good thing but that can mean being a strong student plus … enjoying running and spending a lot of time babysitting … or being on the swim team and enjoying reading … or yes it can mean national science award winner … or a million variations.


O

OP said "not amazing ECs" which probably means zero. W&M wants to see stellar ECs. Period. You can be contrary all you want, but that's what they want to see.

I'll tell that to the numerous kids we know who are current students (first through last years) who were fine students in HS and did typical, not even close to amazing/stellar, ECs (unless you consider marching band/and chorus stellar ECs).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am confused about the data on here. Kid has perfect 4.0 unweighted (so that would mean all A’s) and a ton of AP classes if weighted GPA is a 4.7. From a good Montgomery County school. And test scores are 1570, with good extra curriculars (I am going to take that to mean a leadership position and long term involvement in some activity).

And the OOS and In-state admit rates are about 10% difference (40% and 30% roughly). Wouldn’t this kid have a decent shot? There are posters who said kids got in with a 1360 SAT and another with a C.

I understand ED would be a surer bet, instate is better, and the kid needs to demonstrate interest, but wouldn’t RD at least be considered a match?

I understood the public schools give a 4 for a B in an advanced class. So not necessarily straight As. I know, those of us with unweighted scores don’t get this. That is not straight a stats, right OP?

I'm OP. Yes, straight As from MCPS school.

This is just personal observation, but it seems like WM takes so many kids from NOVA publics and has so few OOS slots that they have higher standards from DC-MD kids than kids from other areas of the country. It’s like they don’t want to be a DMV majority/ regional school, and the NOVA part of that equation is not negotiable. They want to be a national U, so regional diversity plays a role. So a NY or CA (or Midwest!) kid may be more attractive than a MoCo kid. I don’t have numbers to back that up, but it tracks with what I’ve seen.

Remember, a WM class is 1600-1700 kids. Last year, they took 66 kids from MD. The whole state, not just MoCo.

https://www.wm.edu/admission/undergraduateadmission/facts-figures/class-profile/

This makes sense to me (unforunately, as an MCPS parent). OP's stats seem good enough for OOS RD ... but maybe not from Maryland. Maybe yes from other less represented states. Ugh.

They are certainly good enough, but just like those stats are good enough for Harvard, that doesn't mean that the student will get in. There is just a lot of competition, so there is a certain element of luck involved.

This. It’s a teach still. And OP has et mentioned whether or not the most rigorous box will be checked off. Also I’m not seeing stellar EVs. W&am likes to see a well-rounded applicant so looks for community service, Eagle Scout, national awards etc. grapes and Sat/Act don’t cut it alone.

Let’s not go overboard here. Most kids anywhere do not have Eagle Scout and National level awards, and they certainly are not necessary to gain admittance at W&M or at UVA, both excellent schools. Agree that being well rounded is a good thing but that can mean being a strong student plus … enjoying running and spending a lot of time babysitting … or being on the swim team and enjoying reading … or yes it can mean national science award winner … or a million variations.


O

OP said "not amazing ECs" which probably means zero. W&M wants to see stellar ECs. Period. You can be contrary all you want, but that's what they want to see.

I'll tell that to the numerous kids we know who are current students (first through last years) who were fine students in HS and did typical, not even close to amazing/stellar, ECs (unless you consider marching band/and chorus stellar ECs).

4 years of band in HS (more like 8-9 on the same instrument unusually), plus private lessons (many UMC kids take these), plus Marching Band, which is 40 hours a week in August and then 20+ and a commitment 1 or both days of most weekends, plus a band leadership position, plus maybe all district or even all state, plus maybe pep band or pit orchestra for drama, etc, etc. “Band” can add up. It may not be a “stellar,” but band can be a “solid” or even “impressive” EC. My kid got into WM with the primary EC of band with the above profile (district band, section leader).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am confused about the data on here. Kid has perfect 4.0 unweighted (so that would mean all A’s) and a ton of AP classes if weighted GPA is a 4.7. From a good Montgomery County school. And test scores are 1570, with good extra curriculars (I am going to take that to mean a leadership position and long term involvement in some activity).

And the OOS and In-state admit rates are about 10% difference (40% and 30% roughly). Wouldn’t this kid have a decent shot? There are posters who said kids got in with a 1360 SAT and another with a C.

I understand ED would be a surer bet, instate is better, and the kid needs to demonstrate interest, but wouldn’t RD at least be considered a match?

I understood the public schools give a 4 for a B in an advanced class. So not necessarily straight As. I know, those of us with unweighted scores don’t get this. That is not straight a stats, right OP?

I'm OP. Yes, straight As from MCPS school.

This is just personal observation, but it seems like WM takes so many kids from NOVA publics and has so few OOS slots that they have higher standards from DC-MD kids than kids from other areas of the country. It’s like they don’t want to be a DMV majority/ regional school, and the NOVA part of that equation is not negotiable. They want to be a national U, so regional diversity plays a role. So a NY or CA (or Midwest!) kid may be more attractive than a MoCo kid. I don’t have numbers to back that up, but it tracks with what I’ve seen.

Remember, a WM class is 1600-1700 kids. Last year, they took 66 kids from MD. The whole state, not just MoCo.

https://www.wm.edu/admission/undergraduateadmission/facts-figures/class-profile/

This makes sense to me (unforunately, as an MCPS parent). OP's stats seem good enough for OOS RD ... but maybe not from Maryland. Maybe yes from other less represented states. Ugh.

They are certainly good enough, but just like those stats are good enough for Harvard, that doesn't mean that the student will get in. There is just a lot of competition, so there is a certain element of luck involved.

This. It’s a teach still. And OP has et mentioned whether or not the most rigorous box will be checked off. Also I’m not seeing stellar EVs. W&am likes to see a well-rounded applicant so looks for community service, Eagle Scout, national awards etc. grapes and Sat/Act don’t cut it alone.

Let’s not go overboard here. Most kids anywhere do not have Eagle Scout and National level awards, and they certainly are not necessary to gain admittance at W&M or at UVA, both excellent schools. Agree that being well rounded is a good thing but that can mean being a strong student plus … enjoying running and spending a lot of time babysitting … or being on the swim team and enjoying reading … or yes it can mean national science award winner … or a million variations.


O

OP said "not amazing ECs" which probably means zero. W&M wants to see stellar ECs. Period. You can be contrary all you want, but that's what they want to see.

I'll tell that to the numerous kids we know who are current students (first through last years) who were fine students in HS and did typical, not even close to amazing/stellar, ECs (unless you consider marching band/and chorus stellar ECs).

4 years of band in HS (more like 8-9 on the same instrument unusually), plus private lessons (many UMC kids take these), plus Marching Band, which is 40 hours a week in August and then 20+ and a commitment 1 or both days of most weekends, plus a band leadership position, plus maybe all district or even all state, plus maybe pep band or pit orchestra for drama, etc, etc. “Band” can add up. It may not be a “stellar,” but band can be a “solid” or even “impressive” EC. My kid got into WM with the primary EC of band with the above profile (district band, section leader).

My kid does most of that and a few other school activities, a bunch of honor societies and a few summer activities and I would also describe them as good but not amazing ECs. I have no idea why the PP thinks that means the kid has zero ECs.

[Anonymous]

Because PP just makes st up

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:On the Saturday evening AmTrak from Williamsburg (1 block from campus) to Alexandria (AKA, the Hogworts Express), the Conductor announced a welcome home the 450 W& M students they were dropping off. Kids also came home Friday evening, Sat am, and there were two trains Sunday. And, of course, some kids drove and some were picked up.

Contrast this with 35 kids a year from MoCo.

What makes you think that there weren't MoCo kids getting off in Alexandria too? I live in MoCo and it's pretty much 50-50 to me on whether I'd prefer to do a train pick up at Union Station vs Alexandria....

One Tribe!

I think that part was only meant to show the difference and thus competitiveness for OOS kids. So, kudos to your kid I have not skin in this game, being from SE VA and I almost wishing I could be part of this Hogwarts tradition of seeing all those WM kids pouring out of the train

Yeah. I grumble about the crowd. But f you haven’t seen your kid in a couple months, it’s pretty great to see hundreds of kids pouring out of the train talking and laughing with each other and hugging their parents. It’s the moment when it feels like Christmas or Thanksgiving has arrived. We usually get my other kid from the airport. His school is also great and he loves it. But Dulles definitely does not inspire the same happiness and excitement.

DP. Oh, I disagree! I love meeting people - and especially my college kids - at Dulles. So exciting, every single time. One of my kids goes to VT and they have several buses that come up from Blacksburg to Dulles. Same vibe - kids pouring out, everyone hugging, parents eagerly waiting. It's so great when the college kids come home, regardless.

See, that sounds nice. Much less nice— your kid has flown alone from 5 states away, and you are sitting in stop and go traffic for 20 minutes to get from the entrance to the pickup outside baggage claim where the first two lanes of cars have completely stopped and while they wait there for someone, rather than the cell phone lot. Ugh.

PP here - isn’t that the worst? I so wish the police would crack down on those who refuse to wait at the cell phone lot. They make it awful for everyone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
You are readings things into my post I did not say, nor think. Nowhere did I claim their 'the most' or 'the only".
Of course there are polite kids at hundreds of other schools too (would be silly to claim differently) , but can't one be happy and share a positive event?

Not everything is a competition in life.

+1

+1. I appreciated your post. My DC applied ED to William & Mary and I enjoyed reading about the polite kids at the school.

Me too. It was a cute story. Some folks just like to be mad.

DP, but the Hogworts Express is a feel good NOVA- WM tradition— and it’s one that I looks forward to. It’s unusual to have a large number of kids all coming home to the same station via railroad in 2023– but man does it beat sitting on 95 to Williamsburg and back. There are hundreds of parents waiting eagerly for the train to arrive so they can see their kid. Then hundreds of kids pouring off the train, still talking with friends and roomates they had travelled with. Lots of hugging. Families reunited for the holidays. It a great way to start a break or holiday. And yes, I’m glad that my kid has kind peers— and that the kids represent the school well.

I have to agree it’s hard to see what about this antidote about an informal WM/ NOVA tradition pisses some people off. Of course other schools have kids who are kind and polite. And of course other schools have feel good traditiona, formal and informal. But, this thread is about WM.

FYI - there are TONS of VCU, ODU, CNU and NSU kids on that train as well.

Presumably AmTrak knows that on that Saturday evening 450 kids using the student fare got on in Williamsburg and off in ALX. And, of course, some also got off at other VA stations and at Union Station. DD was on the train and said some kids got on from VCU, but she didn’t see ODU, CNU or NSU. They may have had a different holiday schedule for Thanksgiving this year. Plus, DD has several friends at CNU, and none use the train. The WM train to NOVA is such a thing because 95 is so awful and the kids can easily walk to the AmTrak station.

But yes, I’m sure the ODU, NSU, etc. kids are nice and well mannered and make a good impression too. It’s just weird to get defensive and act like anyone is a complement to the students of one college is intended to be a slight to all the other state schools. It like when you tell your six year old that they drew a nice picture and your 5 year old immediately chimes in with “well what about my picture? Is it pretty to? Is it prettier than hers? Which picture do you like better?”

Uh Amtrak knows nothing if the sort and can’t parse out the W&M students from the other students and Tourists!!!!!!

+1
Exactly. Too funny!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am confused about the data on here. Kid has perfect 4.0 unweighted (so that would mean all A’s) and a ton of AP classes if weighted GPA is a 4.7. From a good Montgomery County school. And test scores are 1570, with good extra curriculars (I am going to take that to mean a leadership position and long term involvement in some activity).

And the OOS and In-state admit rates are about 10% difference (40% and 30% roughly). Wouldn’t this kid have a decent shot? There are posters who said kids got in with a 1360 SAT and another with a C.

I understand ED would be a surer bet, instate is better, and the kid needs to demonstrate interest, but wouldn’t RD at least be considered a match?

I understood the public schools give a 4 for a B in an advanced class. So not necessarily straight As. I know, those of us with unweighted scores don’t get this. That is not straight a stats, right OP?

I'm OP. Yes, straight As from MCPS school.

This is just personal observation, but it seems like WM takes so many kids from NOVA publics and has so few OOS slots that they have higher standards from DC-MD kids than kids from other areas of the country. It’s like they don’t want to be a DMV majority/ regional school, and the NOVA part of that equation is not negotiable. They want to be a national U, so regional diversity plays a role. So a NY or CA (or Midwest!) kid may be more attractive than a MoCo kid. I don’t have numbers to back that up, but it tracks with what I’ve seen.

Remember, a WM class is 1600-1700 kids. Last year, they took 66 kids from MD. The whole state, not just MoCo.

https://www.wm.edu/admission/undergraduateadmission/facts-figures/class-profile/

This makes sense to me (unforunately, as an MCPS parent). OP's stats seem good enough for OOS RD ... but maybe not from Maryland. Maybe yes from other less represented states. Ugh.

They are certainly good enough, but just like those stats are good enough for Harvard, that doesn't mean that the student will get in. There is just a lot of competition, so there is a certain element of luck involved.

This. It’s a teach still. And OP has et mentioned whether or not the most rigorous box will be checked off. Also I’m not seeing stellar EVs. W&am likes to see a well-rounded applicant so looks for community service, Eagle Scout, national awards etc. grapes and Sat/Act don’t cut it alone.

Let’s not go overboard here. Most kids anywhere do not have Eagle Scout and National level awards, and they certainly are not necessary to gain admittance at W&M or at UVA, both excellent schools. Agree that being well rounded is a good thing but that can mean being a strong student plus … enjoying running and spending a lot of time babysitting … or being on the swim team and enjoying reading … or yes it can mean national science award winner … or a million variations.


O

OP said "not amazing ECs" which probably means zero. W&M wants to see stellar ECs. Period. You can be contrary all you want, but that's what they want to see.

DP. Not really. We know a few kids at WM and they definitely had average/not stellar ECs while in high school. I agree with the PP who said you’re going overboard here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:On the Saturday evening AmTrak from Williamsburg (1 block from campus) to Alexandria (AKA, the Hogworts Express), the Conductor announced a welcome home the 450 W& M students they were dropping off. Kids also came home Friday evening, Sat am, and there were two trains Sunday. And, of course, some kids drove and some were picked up.

Contrast this with 35 kids a year from MoCo.

What makes you think that there weren't MoCo kids getting off in Alexandria too? I live in MoCo and it's pretty much 50-50 to me on whether I'd prefer to do a train pick up at Union Station vs Alexandria....

One Tribe!

I think that part was only meant to show the difference and thus competitiveness for OOS kids. So, kudos to your kid I have not skin in this game, being from SE VA and I almost wishing I could be part of this Hogwarts tradition of seeing all those WM kids pouring out of the train

Yeah. I grumble about the crowd. But f you haven’t seen your kid in a couple months, it’s pretty great to see hundreds of kids pouring out of the train talking and laughing with each other and hugging their parents. It’s the moment when it feels like Christmas or Thanksgiving has arrived. We usually get my other kid from the airport. His school is also great and he loves it. But Dulles definitely does not inspire the same happiness and excitement.

DP. Oh, I disagree! I love meeting people - and especially my college kids - at Dulles. So exciting, every single time. One of my kids goes to VT and they have several buses that come up from Blacksburg to Dulles. Same vibe - kids pouring out, everyone hugging, parents eagerly waiting. It's so great when the college kids come home, regardless.

See, that sounds nice. Much less nice— your kid has flown alone from 5 states away, and you are sitting in stop and go traffic for 20 minutes to get from the entrance to the pickup outside baggage claim where the first two lanes of cars have completely stopped and while they wait there for someone, rather than the cell phone lot. Ugh.

PP here - isn’t that the worst? I so wish the police would crack down on those who refuse to wait at the cell phone lot. They make it awful for everyone.

+1. In departures, they stand there and glare at you for the 90 seconds it takes to get your kids bag out and give them a goodbye hug. The only time I went over two minutes because there was a brief “by the way, remember to take A COVID test before your grandparents visit next week” “Im out, where do I get one” “ask student health or go to CVS” exchange, they came over and insisted I move. But I’ve seen folks turn of their cars and sit scrolling for their phones for 10-15 for the entire 10-15 minutes it takes DH to get from the cell phone lot, and then I have to duck through three lanes of traffic to put my bag in the truck while drivers honk.

I had always thought the issue at arrivals was security. In which case, it’s just as easy to blow up the airport from departures.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am confused about the data on here. Kid has perfect 4.0 unweighted (so that would mean all A’s) and a ton of AP classes if weighted GPA is a 4.7. From a good Montgomery County school. And test scores are 1570, with good extra curriculars (I am going to take that to mean a leadership position and long term involvement in some activity).

And the OOS and In-state admit rates are about 10% difference (40% and 30% roughly). Wouldn’t this kid have a decent shot? There are posters who said kids got in with a 1360 SAT and another with a C.

I understand ED would be a surer bet, instate is better, and the kid needs to demonstrate interest, but wouldn’t RD at least be considered a match?

I understood the public schools give a 4 for a B in an advanced class. So not necessarily straight As. I know, those of us with unweighted scores don’t get this. That is not straight a stats, right OP?

I'm OP. Yes, straight As from MCPS school.

This is just personal observation, but it seems like WM takes so many kids from NOVA publics and has so few OOS slots that they have higher standards from DC-MD kids than kids from other areas of the country. It’s like they don’t want to be a DMV majority/ regional school, and the NOVA part of that equation is not negotiable. They want to be a national U, so regional diversity plays a role. So a NY or CA (or Midwest!) kid may be more attractive than a MoCo kid. I don’t have numbers to back that up, but it tracks with what I’ve seen.

Remember, a WM class is 1600-1700 kids. Last year, they took 66 kids from MD. The whole state, not just MoCo.

https://www.wm.edu/admission/undergraduateadmission/facts-figures/class-profile/

This makes sense to me (unforunately, as an MCPS parent). OP's stats seem good enough for OOS RD ... but maybe not from Maryland. Maybe yes from other less represented states. Ugh.

They are certainly good enough, but just like those stats are good enough for Harvard, that doesn't mean that the student will get in. There is just a lot of competition, so there is a certain element of luck involved.

This. It’s a teach still. And OP has et mentioned whether or not the most rigorous box will be checked off. Also I’m not seeing stellar EVs. W&am likes to see a well-rounded applicant so looks for community service, Eagle Scout, national awards etc. grapes and Sat/Act don’t cut it alone.

Let’s not go overboard here. Most kids anywhere do not have Eagle Scout and National level awards, and they certainly are not necessary to gain admittance at W&M or at UVA, both excellent schools. Agree that being well rounded is a good thing but that can mean being a strong student plus … enjoying running and spending a lot of time babysitting … or being on the swim team and enjoying reading … or yes it can mean national science award winner … or a million variations.


O

OP said "not amazing ECs" which probably means zero. W&M wants to see stellar ECs. Period. You can be contrary all you want, but that's what they want to see.

I'll tell that to the numerous kids we know who are current students (first through last years) who were fine students in HS and did typical, not even close to amazing/stellar, ECs (unless you consider marching band/and chorus stellar ECs).

4 years of band in HS (more like 8-9 on the same instrument unusually), plus private lessons (many UMC kids take these), plus Marching Band, which is 40 hours a week in August and then 20+ and a commitment 1 or both days of most weekends, plus a band leadership position, plus maybe all district or even all state, plus maybe pep band or pit orchestra for drama, etc, etc. “Band” can add up. It may not be a “stellar,” but band can be a “solid” or even “impressive” EC. My kid got into WM with the primary EC of band with the above profile (district band, section leader).

I am the PP you are responding to, and I wasn’t knocking band per se (my own kids do band so I am aware of everything you named - but they primarily do band in school so plenty of kids don’t do all of the added pieces you named). My kids also respectively do drama and rowihg, which are also high time commitments but I would not call “stellar ECs” nor would I call most kids’ experiences with band a “stellar EC,” which is what the first poster said is necessary for W&M. That just isn’t true and is misleading and stressful for parents reading these posts. As I said, it is good to be well rounded, but “stellar ECs” are the exception not the norm.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does an MCPS/W cluster boy with a 4.0/4.7 GPA and 1570 SAT, good but not amazing ECs and no other hooks have a chance of getting in RD at William and Mary?
Thanks.

OP, the entering class last year at the 75th percentile had a 4.51 and a 1520, so you are looking at the top 25% of the enrolled class. https://research.schev.edu//enrollment/B10_FreshmenProfile.asp. The stats are higher for accepted because a number of accepted students peel off for UVA, privates and other OOS publics. That's all good but you must check with the college advisor and find out if they are checking off the "most rigorous" box and you need to get some ECS. W&M is not a safety for anyone anymore. Good luck.

I interpret that data differently: only 25% of the class had stats above 4.51 (which is weighted) and a 1520. The median is a 1440 and a 4.3. This kid has a 4.7 and a 1570. Agree: That alone is not a lock - no one is arguing it would be - but those are above average stats for W&M, OOS or not (as we know OOS makes up more than the top quarter of the class).

I am not arguing that W&M is easy but rather trying to lower the temperature on these debates - similar to the people arguing kids with dedicated but local ECs will do okay. No need to fan the flames of nerves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does an MCPS/W cluster boy with a 4.0/4.7 GPA and 1570 SAT, good but not amazing ECs and no other hooks have a chance of getting in RD at William and Mary?
Thanks.

I don't know, but good luck! My son is a freshman this year and he loves the school! I don't think how good they really are is accurately conveyed through admissions and usnews rankings. It's been so beyond expectations this year. There is a coziness and kindness to the school with really smart and focused students. The students even share opportunities with each other. Its a very collaborative place.

+1000
Parent of freshman male. He is so happy there, has made a lot of friends and loves that he gets to talk to his professors when he needs to. He has a study group for the toughest class and says kids help each other. Could not be happier but agree with other posters. Important to visit and see if it’s the right fit for the kid’s personality. Also demonstrate interest and by all means schedule an interview.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does an MCPS/W cluster boy with a 4.0/4.7 GPA and 1570 SAT, good but not amazing ECs and no other hooks have a chance of getting in RD at William and Mary?
Thanks.

I don't know, but good luck! My son is a freshman this year and he loves the school! I don't think how good they really are is accurately conveyed through admissions and usnews rankings. It's been so beyond expectations this year. There is a coziness and kindness to the school with really smart and focused students. The students even share opportunities with each other. Its a very collaborative place.

+1000
Parent of freshman male. He is so happy there, has made a lot of friends and loves that he gets to talk to his professors when he needs to. He has a study group for the toughest class and says kids help each other. Could not be happier but agree with other posters. Important to visit and see if it’s the right fit for the kid’s personality. Also demonstrate interest and by all means schedule an interview.

Are there opportunities at W&M for athletes that are serious about their sports but not good enough for D1? I am the mom of a very athletic son - and being part of a team is important for him even though he is not good enough for D1.