William and Mary

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I am confused about the data on here. Kid has perfect 4.0 unweighted (so that would mean all A’s) and a ton of AP classes if weighted GPA is a 4.7. From a good Montgomery County school. And test scores are 1570, with good extra curriculars (I am going to take that to mean a leadership position and long term involvement in some activity).

And the OOS and In-state admit rates are about 10% difference (40% and 30% roughly). Wouldn’t this kid have a decent shot? There are posters who said kids got in with a 1360 SAT and another with a C.

I understand ED would be a surer bet, instate is better, and the kid needs to demonstrate interest, but wouldn’t RD at least be considered a match?

I understood the public schools give a 4 for a B in an advanced class. So not necessarily straight As. I know, those of us with unweighted scores don’t get this. That is not straight a stats, right OP?

I'm OP. Yes, straight As from MCPS school.

This is just personal observation, but it seems like WM takes so many kids from NOVA publics and has so few OOS slots that they have higher standards from DC-MD kids than kids from other areas of the country. It’s like they don’t want to be a DMV majority/ regional school, and the NOVA part of that equation is not negotiable. They want to be a national U, so regional diversity plays a role. So a NY or CA (or Midwest!) kid may be more attractive than a MoCo kid. I don’t have numbers to back that up, but it tracks with what I’ve seen.

Remember, a WM class is 1600-1700 kids. Last year, they took 66 kids from MD. The whole state, not just MoCo.

https://www.wm.edu/admission/undergraduateadmission/facts-figures/class-profile/

This makes sense to me (unforunately, as an MCPS parent). OP's stats seem good enough for OOS RD ... but maybe not from Maryland. Maybe yes from other less represented states. Ugh.

They are certainly good enough, but just like those stats are good enough for Harvard, that doesn't mean that the student will get in. There is just a lot of competition, so there is a certain element of luck involved.

This. It’s a teach still. And OP has et mentioned whether or not the most rigorous box will be checked off. Also I’m not seeing stellar EVs. W&am likes to see a well-rounded applicant so looks for community service, Eagle Scout, national awards etc. grapes and Sat/Act don’t cut it alone.

Let’s not go overboard here. Most kids anywhere do not have Eagle Scout and National level awards, and they certainly are not necessary to gain admittance at W&M or at UVA, both excellent schools. Agree that being well rounded is a good thing but that can mean being a strong student plus … enjoying running and spending a lot of time babysitting … or being on the swim team and enjoying reading … or yes it can mean national science award winner … or a million variations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When does interest tracking begin? For example, our sophomore has taken a few tours when we were visiting somewhere. Once their email is in the system, does that mean the tracking has begun?

Great idea to tour starting sophomore year. You might want to over time keep engaging with the schools that become of real interest and even re-tour, interview, go to interested student days in jr or sr year. Some colleges from what I hear want to see touring in junior or senior year - so just in case, keep that in mind...

[Anonymous]

We live in the NE and love that Amtrak is an option. Makes me feel like mine might really like traveling that way, with other students.
Thanks for the tip about student fares!
Parents might be a little tense bc of ED decisions for this and other schools coming out.
Me too. Going to clean out a closet or two. Keeping busy and not talking out loud about it :}

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When does interest tracking begin? For example, our sophomore has taken a few tours when we were visiting somewhere. Once their email is in the system, does that mean the tracking has begun?

Great idea to tour starting sophomore year. You might want to over time keep engaging with the schools that become of real interest and even re-tour, interview, go to interested student days in jr or sr year. Some colleges from what I hear want to see touring in junior or senior year - so just in case, keep that in mind...

Certainly, demonstrated interest is important to certain schools (check the common data set to see which ones consider it). But as for in-person touring, Could you say which colleges want a detour? Or provide further info? I am surprised that colleges are prioritizing kids making multiple pricy visits to campus where they have to take off school or work. I have heard most don’t care if you tour in-person because it is a barrier for some families. Definitely do online tours and show up at anything in town if you are interested. But I sort of have a hard time believing that a kid who wasn’t able to tour but demonstrated interest in other ways would be dinged. I also think as long as you show sufficient demonstrated interest, the other factors of your app are more important. In other words, they will take a more rigorous kid who demonstrated interest over a less rigorous kid who toured twice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When does interest tracking begin? For example, our sophomore has taken a few tours when we were visiting somewhere. Once their email is in the system, does that mean the tracking has begun?

Great idea to tour starting sophomore year. You might want to over time keep engaging with the schools that become of real interest and even re-tour, interview, go to interested student days in jr or sr year. Some colleges from what I hear want to see touring in junior or senior year - so just in case, keep that in mind...

Certainly, demonstrated interest is important to certain schools (check the common data set to see which ones consider it). But as for in-person touring, Could you say which colleges want a detour? Or provide further info? I am surprised that colleges are prioritizing kids making multiple pricy visits to campus where they have to take off school or work. I have heard most don’t care if you tour in-person because it is a barrier for some families. Definitely do online tours and show up at anything in town if you are interested. But I sort of have a hard time believing that a kid who wasn’t able to tour but demonstrated interest in other ways would be dinged. I also think as long as you show sufficient demonstrated interest, the other factors of your app are more important. In other words, they will take a more rigorous kid who demonstrated interest over a less rigorous kid who toured twice.

*retour

[Anonymous]

What you're saying makes a lot of sense and could be right. FWIW, I've heard that visits prior to junior year are sometimes not weighed as heavily as those done in the last two years of HS. Also that if you live no more than a few hours drive, the favored way to show interest is to go in person. Also to interview at admissions if they offer that, as W&M does. If they have an interest day for jrs or srs, try to attend. That's what I have heard even though it seems more fair to show interest virtually, if that's what the student is able to do. As you say there a lot of ways to show interest without visiting, and to layer interest with an in person visit plus several virtual offerings, I would imagine helps a lot. Hope this helps.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This thread about the W&M train is going to rank up there with lightly fried tuna for most absurd

Lol. Have a Senior at W&M. Has been the perfect fit. Train is incredibly convenient. Kid rides the Metro from Union Station, though sounds nice to see the kids piling out. You can get a round-trip ticket for $38

Best of luck to kids applying, hoping to go to W&M. As they say, those who come here belong here. No truer statement for my kid.

I want to voice the same. Parent of a freshman here. Good Luck to everybody who has WM as their first choice. It is an amazing place.
DD made it thru the beginning college adjustments (I have to take notes differently? changing my learning style? Where are my peeps? Not home cooking!) and feels happy there.

[Anonymous]

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You are readings things into my post I did not say, nor think. Nowhere did I claim their 'the most' or 'the only".
Of course there are polite kids at hundreds of other schools too (would be silly to claim differently) , but can't one be happy and share a positive event?

Not everything is a competition in life.

+1

+1. I appreciated your post. My DC applied ED to William & Mary and I enjoyed reading about the polite kids at the school.

Me too. It was a cute story. Some folks just like to be mad.

DP, but the Hogworts Express is a feel good NOVA- WM tradition— and it’s one that I looks forward to. It’s unusual to have a large number of kids all coming home to the same station via railroad in 2023– but man does it beat sitting on 95 to Williamsburg and back. There are hundreds of parents waiting eagerly for the train to arrive so they can see their kid. Then hundreds of kids pouring off the train, still talking with friends and roomates they had travelled with. Lots of hugging. Families reunited for the holidays. It a great way to start a break or holiday. And yes, I’m glad that my kid has kind peers— and that the kids represent the school well.

I have to agree it’s hard to see what about this antidote about an informal WM/ NOVA tradition pisses some people off. Of course other schools have kids who are kind and polite. And of course other schools have feel good traditiona, formal and informal. But, this thread is about WM.

FYI - there are TONS of VCU, ODU, CNU and NSU kids on that train as well.

NP. I can’t even believe I’m weighing in on this, but ODU and NSU kids would not get on the train in Williamsburg. The trains that leave Norfolk are not the same ones that go through W’burg. But I’m sure their students are very polite, too. Ok, carry on.

Yes, they are. And PP was taking about them getting off the train in ALX, not on (see “crying parents”).

No, they’re not. I live in Norfolk and take the train frequently. While ODU and NSU kids can definitely get off the train on ALX, they would not be on the same train as the W&M kids who got on in W’burg. Completely different tracks until you get to Richmond.

Also, UVA students? Why on earth would a UVA student drive 2 hours to get on a train in W’burg when there’s one that leaves right from Charlottesville? Again, different tracks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When does interest tracking begin? For example, our sophomore has taken a few tours when we were visiting somewhere. Once their email is in the system, does that mean the tracking has begun?

Great idea to tour starting sophomore year. You might want to over time keep engaging with the schools that become of real interest and even re-tour, interview, go to interested student days in jr or sr year. Some colleges from what I hear want to see touring in junior or senior year - so just in case, keep that in mind...

Intersting. We would definitely consider going back to local-ish schools, but ones that require long flights we wouldn't visit again unless accepted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What you're saying makes a lot of sense and could be right. FWIW, I've heard that visits prior to junior year are sometimes not weighed as heavily as those done in the last two years of HS. Also that if you live no more than a few hours drive, the favored way to show interest is to go in person. Also to interview at admissions if they offer that, as W&M does. If they have an interest day for jrs or srs, try to attend. That's what I have heard even though it seems more fair to show interest virtually, if that's what the student is able to do. As you say there a lot of ways to show interest without visiting, and to layer interest with an in person visit plus several virtual offerings, I would imagine helps a lot. Hope this helps.

Thanks for taking the time to clarify, PP. I think we are saying the same thing: kids should demonstrate interest in the best way that works for them if the school in which your kid want to attend cares about that stuff. And W&M definitely cares.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What you're saying makes a lot of sense and could be right. FWIW, I've heard that visits prior to junior year are sometimes not weighed as heavily as those done in the last two years of HS. Also that if you live no more than a few hours drive, the favored way to show interest is to go in person. Also to interview at admissions if they offer that, as W&M does. If they have an interest day for jrs or srs, try to attend. That's what I have heard even though it seems more fair to show interest virtually, if that's what the student is able to do. As you say there a lot of ways to show interest without visiting, and to layer interest with an in person visit plus several virtual offerings, I would imagine helps a lot. Hope this helps.

Thanks for taking the time to clarify, PP. I think we are saying the same thing: kids should demonstrate interest in the best way that works for them if the school in which your kid want to attend cares about that stuff. And W&M definitely cares.

You are welcome! I agree with you too. Best of luck to yours. It's a bumpy ride but it's got some positives. Will be happy when this phase is over and we can move on to ordering comforter sets

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When does interest tracking begin? For example, our sophomore has taken a few tours when we were visiting somewhere. Once their email is in the system, does that mean the tracking has begun?

Great idea to tour starting sophomore year. You might want to over time keep engaging with the schools that become of real interest and even re-tour, interview, go to interested student days in jr or sr year. Some colleges from what I hear want to see touring in junior or senior year - so just in case, keep that in mind...

Intersting. We would definitely consider going back to local-ish schools, but ones that require long flights we wouldn't visit again unless accepted.

And that sounds fine. Demonstrate interest, in a *reasonable fashion.* My kid is in state. She: did a self guided tour junior year during COVID (signed in at admissions), interviewed (virtual), went to a Fall Focus Day *because she was deciding between schools for ED* (1/2 day program you can talk to representatives from business, or STEM, or history, IR & government, etc), took the optional essay seriously (and they are clear it’s not optional), and opened emails from WM (and once in while clicked a link in them to a page that she thought would be interesting). Admitted

That’s for ED. She essentially did revisits for schools before applying ED, because she needed to be certain and could not revisit after acceptance and decide not to attend.

For an RD, I can’t imagine more than one visit is needed, especially if you aren’t in state. You can also engage more virtually. For example, have online student lead Zooms about campus life.

For ED, demonstrate that you kid has done enough research to be confident WM their true first choice, and not just the highest ranking school your kid thinks they have a shot at.

For RD, demonstrate that your kid did some research and feels WM would be a good match. Vs, just applying to 15 schools and deciding to only research those they get into. I wouldn’t visit twice for RD, because you can revisit before committing.

[Anonymous]

Actually, my RD kid did exactly the same as your ED kid. Got admitted.

DC just did not ED because of the price tag and felt it was less likely to get any merit/scholarhip money if doing ED. At that time DC was thinking maybe a 'discount' at another school could maybe sway them? Possibly?
Nah, in the end DC stuck with their first choice, even though it ended up full pay.
In retrospect, we could have been done probably way earlier and saved a bit in application fees, but oh well. It all worked out, so we are happy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Actually, my RD kid did exactly the same as your ED kid. Got admitted.

DC just did not ED because of the price tag and felt it was less likely to get any merit/scholarhip money if doing ED. At that time DC was thinking maybe a 'discount' at another school could maybe sway them? Possibly?
Nah, in the end DC stuck with their first choice, even though it ended up full pay.
In retrospect, we could have been done probably way earlier and saved a bit in application fees, but oh well. It all worked out, so we are happy.

Mine got in ED and had applications pending at 6 of her 9 schools. Was working on the last two. She could have waited to hot submit and saved some money, but she felt better knowing they were completely off her plate. WM was a high match (4.1W GPA, 34 ACT, FCPS, strong upward trend) in the red/green overlap on Naviance. She went with hoping for the best and preparing for the worst. Which is good, because if she had been denied or deferred, it would have been tough to shake off the disappointment and do all the essays for 8 other schools before 1/2 or 1/15 (she was in Rolling Decision at Pitt; all her other schools were SLACs w/ no EA). She also had an ED2 school picked, because her strong first two choices were high matches.

An FYI for parents of ED kids deferred and then put on the WL in March or put on the WL in RD— last year WM offered the entire WL spring admission. Which is smart, because many kids study abroad spring of junior year, so some capacity opens up. They envision this as a seven semester at WM graduation track, and in the fall kids have to either take a FT load of transferable credits at a community college with a certain GPA (maybe 3.0?) or do study away through a specific provider and do a full academic load of transferable credits. It’s a nice plan B for a kid who really wants WM, has the academic credentials, but just misses in the “holistic review”.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:
You are readings things into my post I did not say, nor think. Nowhere did I claim their 'the most' or 'the only".
Of course there are polite kids at hundreds of other schools too (would be silly to claim differently) , but can't one be happy and share a positive event?

Not everything is a competition in life.

+1

+1. I appreciated your post. My DC applied ED to William & Mary and I enjoyed reading about the polite kids at the school.

Me too. It was a cute story. Some folks just like to be mad.

DP, but the Hogworts Express is a feel good NOVA- WM tradition— and it’s one that I looks forward to. It’s unusual to have a large number of kids all coming home to the same station via railroad in 2023– but man does it beat sitting on 95 to Williamsburg and back. There are hundreds of parents waiting eagerly for the train to arrive so they can see their kid. Then hundreds of kids pouring off the train, still talking with friends and roomates they had travelled with. Lots of hugging. Families reunited for the holidays. It a great way to start a break or holiday. And yes, I’m glad that my kid has kind peers— and that the kids represent the school well.

I have to agree it’s hard to see what about this antidote about an informal WM/ NOVA tradition pisses some people off. Of course other schools have kids who are kind and polite. And of course other schools have feel good traditiona, formal and informal. But, this thread is about WM.

FYI - there are TONS of VCU, ODU, CNU and NSU kids on that train as well.

NP. I can’t even believe I’m weighing in on this, but ODU and NSU kids would not get on the train in Williamsburg. The trains that leave Norfolk are not the same ones that go through W’burg. But I’m sure their students are very polite, too. Ok, carry on.

Yes, they are. And PP was taking about them getting off the train in ALX, not on (see “crying parents”).

No, they’re not. I live in Norfolk and take the train frequently. While ODU and NSU kids can definitely get off the train on ALX, they would not be on the same train as the W&M kids who got on in W’burg. Completely different tracks until you get to Richmond.

Also, UVA students? Why on earth would a UVA student drive 2 hours to get on a train in W’burg when there’s one that leaves right from Charlottesville? Again, different tracks.

Well, first they wouldn't drive because they were training up to DC and would have had to leave car in Williamsburg. And to answer the question, to visit friends and girlfriend. UVA students aren't allowed to go to Williamsburg?