NYU Prof fired because his class was too hard

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Orgo has ALWAYS been a weed out class--from medical school and from chemistry as a major. When I took it, the average was a C.
I don't know the specifics of this guy but it's hardly new for many people to fail organic chemistry.

A “C” is, by definition, average.

would you go to just an "average" doctor?

The "C"s from organic chemistry don't get into med school, so...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When you purposely don’t ask for SAT scores to back door diversify and juke your US News data — you get a campus full of over-confident deluded midwit kids who had 4 years of fake As from high school. They can’t handle high-level university coursework; they lack the study skills, the reading speed, the dedication, maybe even the IQ. And many of them are shameless cheaters because practically everyone cheated at their high school for fake As.

The boomer professor is a scapegoat.

He’s actually Post War; not a Boomer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Orgo has ALWAYS been a weed out class--from medical school and from chemistry as a major. When I took it, the average was a C.
I don't know the specifics of this guy but it's hardly new for many people to fail organic chemistry.

A “C” is, by definition, average.

would you go to just an "average" doctor?

The "C"s from organic chemistry don't get into med school, so...

But those NYU students wanted the professor get fired so that they can get a better grade to go to medical school, right?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Orgo has ALWAYS been a weed out class--from medical school and from chemistry as a major. When I took it, the average was a C.
I don't know the specifics of this guy but it's hardly new for many people to fail organic chemistry.

A “C” is, by definition, average.

would you go to just an "average" doctor?

The "C"s from organic chemistry don't get into med school, so...

But those NYU students wanted the professor get fired so that they can get a better grade to go to medical school, right?

Probably so. It's the new entitlement that average students should be admitted to med school. That's why the Bell curve works. That's why there should be a lot of "C"s given, if necessary.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Orgo has ALWAYS been a weed out class--from medical school and from chemistry as a major. When I took it, the average was a C.
I don't know the specifics of this guy but it's hardly new for many people to fail organic chemistry.

A “C” is, by definition, average.

would you go to just an "average" doctor?

Some of them have to be average by definition.

[Anonymous]

Way back in the 20th Century my husband took Professor Jones's class at Princeton. He remembers Jones fondly, but was astonished to learn that he is still teaching. DH also noted that even when Jones was in his prime, there was no way the class average on a midterm would have been 30%, as the NYT reports it was for Jones's class at NYU last spring. DH's guess is that 60-70% would have been more likely. Our two sons, both of whom have taken organic chemistry within the past five years (one is now a med student and the other is now applying to med school) opined that a professor whose students are averaging 30% on the second of two midterms is not a very good teacher. I tend to agree with them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When you purposely don’t ask for SAT scores to back door diversify and juke your US News data — you get a campus full of over-confident deluded midwit kids who had 4 years of fake As from high school. They can’t handle high-level university coursework; they lack the study skills, the reading speed, the dedication, maybe even the IQ. And many of them are shameless cheaters because practically everyone cheated at their high school for fake As.

The boomer professor is a scapegoat.

He’s actually Post War; not a Boomer.

He's post-war and an emeritus professor with an excellent reputation. Those were the best professors I ever had, and yes, they were harder.

This situation says way more about current NYU students and parents than it does about the professor. I am so glad my dh and I both left academe; we make more money, have better work life balance, and don't have to deal with these institutions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Orgo has ALWAYS been a weed out class--from medical school and from chemistry as a major. When I took it, the average was a C.
I don't know the specifics of this guy but it's hardly new for many people to fail organic chemistry.

A “C” is, by definition, average.

would you go to just an "average" doctor?

Most of them are. That’s the thing about average.

Based on the current trend, you will not get an "average" doctor, You will get an incompetent doctor in about 8 years.

Based on the old trend, rich average white dudes, we currently have too many average doctors.

Now we have top students going to med school based on skills, not who they know.

PP, really curious what your profession is? You does not have a clue how one becomes a doctor in the old trend. I think you are confused medical schools with law schools/business schools.

I’m an engineer making medical devices.

Doctors are not really smart people. They had parents willing to pay for med school, they were good at memorizing and taking tests, they are just “good students”.

If you are really sick you will not go to the doctor closest to your house. You will go to Hopkins, or medstar or md Anderson (if you are smart). Why because you know the good doctors end up there.

10% are amazing
10% more are great
10% more are pretty good most the time
The rest leave much to be desired.

What are the source of your "amazing" "great" "pretty good" doctor %s? ? You do not know a thing about MDs. Please do not make people laugh at you.

Poor little bunny.

Your itty bitty feeling are hurt.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of the lines in the petition was that grades didn’t reflect effort and time put in. Welcome to the rest of your life, dummies!

Ha! Sorry snowflake, no standards based learning and multiple “retests” and “retakes” like our public high school.

I have no problem with retakes and retests in high school. The purpose is to have them learn the material, is it not?

So when your doctor gets your diagnosis wrong the first time, that’s ok? I mean, maybe he’ll get it the second or third time — it’s only important that they eventually got it right?

Most drs get diagnoses wrong if it’s more than a cold/flu/bacterial infection.

They are trained to treat the most probable cause, that’s not a diagnosis. They treat symptoms. They give you advice or meds and send you in your way. If you’re still sick they send you for more tests. If those come back clean they generally say, yea you’re fine. But you know you are not.

You push for more so they might get you more tests and send you to a specialist.

That’s how doctors work. They know a very narrow portion of medicine. It’s up to the patient to keep at it to get to the root cause.

If you don’t go to a top doctor you’re screwed.

Even people with infertility know, they need $$$ and the top clinic. Cancer … top clinics. Most fifties are useless past a cold or bacterial infection.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Orgo has ALWAYS been a weed out class--from medical school and from chemistry as a major. When I took it, the average was a C.
I don't know the specifics of this guy but it's hardly new for many people to fail organic chemistry.

A “C” is, by definition, average.

would you go to just an "average" doctor?

Most of them are. That’s the thing about average.

Based on the current trend, you will not get an "average" doctor, You will get an incompetent doctor in about 8 years.

Based on the old trend, rich average white dudes, we currently have too many average doctors.

Now we have top students going to med school based on skills, not who they know.

PP, really curious what your profession is? You does not have a clue how one becomes a doctor in the old trend. I think you are confused medical schools with law schools/business schools.

I’m an engineer making medical devices.

Doctors are not really smart people. They had parents willing to pay for med school, they were good at memorizing and taking tests, they are just “good students”.

If you are really sick you will not go to the doctor closest to your house. You will go to Hopkins, or medstar or md Anderson (if you are smart). Why because you know the good doctors end up there.

10% are amazing
10% more are great
10% more are pretty good most the time
The rest leave much to be desired.

What are the source of your "amazing" "great" "pretty good" doctor %s? ? You do not know a thing about MDs. Please do not make people laugh at you.

Poor little bunny.

Your itty bitty feeling are hurt.

DP... this only makes you seem even less reliable, and really immature, too. Maybe you are the one who is butt hurt about something?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:His rate my professor is pretty bad dating back to 2017. Even his high ratings say the TAs teach all the information or you have to teach yourself from the book,

His average is actually pretty middle of the road, but it’s interesting that the scores tend to be either 5 or 1. It looks like the bright students really enjoy his class and the ones who struggled really struggled. The kids who rated him 5 all said reading the textbook was key. The reviews actually back his argument that these kids don’t know how to study. They expect to be spoon fed.

Pre 2020

Professor Jones is very intelligent and definitely knows his materials. However, he's horrible at presenting the materials

Rated 4, you are forced to learn independently.

Super disorganized and poor at explaining concepts. Definitely would not recommend

Rated 5: he's not easy at all and can be a very obnoxious figure

average on every exam was a 55% and a 38% on the final.

Most of the learning takes place during the group problems with the TAs. The lectures are pretty tough to understand

Avoid. Half the class received C. Great lectures but tests are v. difficult; it's impossible to do all 10,000 provided practice q's that can pop up on them. Class test av. was 50. I had an A- with Mahal (she's great), did 2x the work for Jones and still did much worse. It's very hard to gauge if you understand material from the way he tests you.

Rated 3: Lectures aren't clear and tests are designed for you to do bad.

He is one of the rudest people I have ever met

If I cared, I would go through and cut and paste all the 5s that said he was brilliant and a great teacher & those that are complaining just didn’t do the work. There was also clearly an organized effort to post bad reviews when the letter was sent complaining about him, just judging by the timing and language of the complaints. But I really don’t want to waste my time because it’s clear you have some sort of weird obsession with college profs always being the one to blame when students fail.

Very few even the 4’s and 5’s complain about him being rude, you have to teach yourself from the book of use the TAs. Many tell you to avoid him and go to the other teacher.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Organic chemistry is hard? Who knew?

This was especially interesting in light of discussions over Covid learning loss:

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/03/us/nyu-organic-chemistry-petition.html

“Students were misreading exam questions at an astonishing rate,” he wrote in a grievance to the university, protesting his termination. Grades fell even as he reduced the difficulty of his exams.

The problem was exacerbated by the pandemic, he said. “In the last two years, they fell off a cliff,” he wrote. “We now see single digit scores and even zeros.”

After several years of Covid learning loss, the students not only didn’t study, they didn’t seem to know how to study, Dr. Jones said.

I think the bolded portion is the hidden issue here. The brain processes information differently if you read it on a device vs in print, and it processes information on a computer screen differently from information on a phone. These students probably aren't accustomed to reading print.

Maybe if he formed the class information into a tik Tok video more students would watch and learn something. Did anyone think that kids that grew with the attention span of a gnat, having everything made easier for them, never having to work hard or REALLY put any effort in, had excuses made for them at every turn (can't read print? don't know how to study? lol), would be able to succeed in a hard class. They are waiting for someone to make it easier for them and they want to become doctors? Does anyone see the irony or how ridiculous this is?

Did u even read the article.. he did make them into you tube videos, he doesn’t even teach, he has you watch videos, read his book and do practice exams.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of the lines in the petition was that grades didn’t reflect effort and time put in. Welcome to the rest of your life, dummies!

Ha! Sorry snowflake, no standards based learning and multiple “retests” and “retakes” like our public high school.

I have no problem with retakes and retests in high school. The purpose is to have them learn the material, is it not?

So when your doctor gets your diagnosis wrong the first time, that’s ok? I mean, maybe he’ll get it the second or third time — it’s only important that they eventually got it right?

Most drs get diagnoses wrong if it’s more than a cold/flu/bacterial infection.

They are trained to treat the most probable cause, that’s not a diagnosis. They treat symptoms. They give you advice or meds and send you in your way. If you’re still sick they send you for more tests. If those come back clean they generally say, yea you’re fine. But you know you are not.

You push for more so they might get you more tests and send you to a specialist.

That’s how doctors work. They know a very narrow portion of medicine. It’s up to the patient to keep at it to get to the root cause.

If you don’t go to a top doctor you’re screwed.

Even people with infertility know, they need $$$ and the top clinic. Cancer … top clinics. Most fifties are useless past a cold or bacterial infection.

DP.. maybe but I think the point is that most people *don't want* a doctor who has to keep doing retakes. Wouldn't you want a doctor who can usually diagnose it correctly the first time?

Same for students and test taking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Organic chemistry is hard? Who knew?

This was especially interesting in light of discussions over Covid learning loss:

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/03/us/nyu-organic-chemistry-petition.html

“Students were misreading exam questions at an astonishing rate,” he wrote in a grievance to the university, protesting his termination. Grades fell even as he reduced the difficulty of his exams.

The problem was exacerbated by the pandemic, he said. “In the last two years, they fell off a cliff,” he wrote. “We now see single digit scores and even zeros.”

After several years of Covid learning loss, the students not only didn’t study, they didn’t seem to know how to study, Dr. Jones said.

I think the bolded portion is the hidden issue here. The brain processes information differently if you read it on a device vs in print, and it processes information on a computer screen differently from information on a phone. These students probably aren't accustomed to reading print.

Maybe if he formed the class information into a tik Tok video more students would watch and learn something. Did anyone think that kids that grew with the attention span of a gnat, having everything made easier for them, never having to work hard or REALLY put any effort in, had excuses made for them at every turn (can't read print? don't know how to study? lol), would be able to succeed in a hard class. They are waiting for someone to make it easier for them and they want to become doctors? Does anyone see the irony or how ridiculous this is?

Did u even read the article.. he did make them into you tube videos, he doesn’t even teach, he has you watch videos, read his book and do practice exams.

That was pretty much what our HSers did during the pandemic. Some did fine, others didn't. But at the college level, I would think most students who were "smart" enough to get into NYU could handle learning from watching the videos, read the book and do practice exams.

[Anonymous]

I feel like there has to be a lot more going on there. (And no I'm not going to take the time to get past the paywall to find out what it is).

But the points about learning loss are important. And yet on the other other hand, why are we acknowledging learning loss but not helping students deal with it? There are schools at all levels are doing the same thing, just plowing through as though the kids had actually had good instruction. They should have had all those students take a remedial chemistry class over the summer or something.