Diversity of schools - can this work both ways? Am I being unreasonable?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Asian families prioritize high-performing schools over diverse schools everywhere they live in this country. The fact that few DCPS and DCPCS middle and high schools can attract any should be a wake-up call to all stakeholders.

no stereotyping or anything.

. Are you a first or 2nd gen Asian immigrant? If not, pipe down. What do you know about the stereotyping of Asians in this country. Racism bothers us little. As an immigrant group, we’re more focused on academic achievement than any other. DC public schools are too political for almost all is us past elementary in Upper NW and Cap Hill. The rigor, challenge and respect for Asian cultures and languages just isn’t there. Even BASIS and Walls struggle to attract Asian families.

Can you expound on this? It's continually frustrating that all DE&I efforts seem to focus on AAs and gay people.

I'll give you an example. There's no DC public MS or HS that teaches Asian languages to an advanced level. Almost every UMC friendly option pushes Spanish, Latin or beginning Chinese on your kid. Wait a minute, you say, what about YuYing and DCI? The truth is that their Mandarin programs are weak to the point of being laughable. There are essentially no native speakers and very few parents supplement for Chinese seriously, so standards for speaking are abysmal. At BASIS, students can't even study Chinese until 8th grade and native speakers of tough Asian languages are forced to choose between studying a new language from 8th grade or taking beginning Chinese, even if they're already fluent (all but ensuring that native speakers will wind up weak in both the new language and Chinese, which requires the learning of 3000+ characters for basic literacy).

In the DC burbs, middle schools and high schools celebrate and support Asian immigrants who excel at learning their own languages, or at least leave them alone to get on with it. There are schools in Fairfax teaching half a dozen Asian languages to an advanced level, a year or two past AP study. In DC public schools, we're just not very welcome past elementary, explaining why there are so few of us.

You think Asians aren't in DCPS because they don't offer Asian languages? Wouldn't it make more sense that Asian languages aren't taught because the Asian population in DC is far lower than in Fairfax? Your logic seems backward to me. Look at the population of DC. I'm pretty sure young Asian people aren't leaving in droves when they have kids. It's more that there are less to begin with. Tons of white people leave DC too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Asian families prioritize high-performing schools over diverse schools everywhere they live in this country. The fact that few DCPS and DCPCS middle and high schools can attract any should be a wake-up call to all stakeholders.

no stereotyping or anything.

. Are you a first or 2nd gen Asian immigrant? If not, pipe down. What do you know about the stereotyping of Asians in this country. Racism bothers us little. As an immigrant group, we’re more focused on academic achievement than any other. DC public schools are too political for almost all is us past elementary in Upper NW and Cap Hill. The rigor, challenge and respect for Asian cultures and languages just isn’t there. Even BASIS and Walls struggle to attract Asian families.

Can you expound on this? It's continually frustrating that all DE&I efforts seem to focus on AAs and gay people.

I'll give you an example. There's no DC public MS or HS that teaches Asian languages to an advanced level. Almost every UMC friendly option pushes Spanish, Latin or beginning Chinese on your kid. Wait a minute, you say, what about YuYing and DCI? The truth is that their Mandarin programs are weak to the point of being laughable. There are essentially no native speakers and very few parents supplement for Chinese seriously, so standards for speaking are abysmal. At BASIS, students can't even study Chinese until 8th grade and native speakers of tough Asian languages are forced to choose between studying a new language from 8th grade or taking beginning Chinese, even if they're already fluent (all but ensuring that native speakers will wind up weak in both the new language and Chinese, which requires the learning of 3000+ characters for basic literacy).

In the DC burbs, middle schools and high schools celebrate and support Asian immigrants who excel at learning their own languages, or at least leave them alone to get on with it. There are schools in Fairfax teaching half a dozen Asian languages to an advanced level, a year or two past AP study. In DC public schools, we're just not very welcome past elementary, explaining why there are so few of us.

You think Asians aren't in DCPS because they don't offer Asian languages? Wouldn't it make more sense that Asian languages aren't taught because the Asian population in DC is far lower than in Fairfax? Your logic seems backward to me. Look at the population of DC. I'm pretty sure young Asian people aren't leaving in droves when they have kids. It's more that there are less to begin with. Tons of white people leave DC too.

ya, i'm also an asian immigrant (child of immigrants) and I just dont think we can direct anger at D.C. for not catering to a group that barely exists, population-wise. if I wanted to do what immigrants in my parents generation did (live in the suburbs in an area with a great school district and lots of immigrants), i could have done that. For new immigrants, it's a very logical way to give your kids the best shot at getting into a fantastic college and then climbing into American society from there.

I am very very familiar with that whole vibe and have many family friends who are doing it. we are choosing to live in the city. it's all just different. Our IB school and neighborhood actually does have tons of children of immigrants, like me, many in interracial marriages. But our connection to America and our expectations and what we want for ours kids is just completely different.

[Anonymous]

What would you know? Are you Asian? Are you fluent in an Asian language?

PP pointed out that Asians in DC public middle and high schools are mostly forced to study Spanish, Latin or beginning Chinese (even if they're fluent). That doesn't exactly sound like rolling out the welcome mat to me. Iffy STEM and unserious music instruction can't help either.

In the burbs, students who can test out of languages generally don't have to study them in schools at all. DC wouldn't dream of giving bilingual/biliterate families that kind of recognition or flexibility. Not equitable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Asian families prioritize high-performing schools over diverse schools everywhere they live in this country. The fact that few DCPS and DCPCS middle and high schools can attract any should be a wake-up call to all stakeholders.

Blunt, but true. My parents bought the cheapest house in the best school district so I could go to high-performing schools and I'm not far off. The bar in DC is so low.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Former Soviet Union immigrants are on a par with Asians in achievement in instrumental music. Like Asians, they gravitate to suburban schools with strong math and chess teams and orchestras and bands.

My Asian immigrant parents and grandparents could have absolutely cared less if my siblings and I, and our children, attend public schools with low-income AAs and Latinos. They had far too many of their own problems in East Asia, wars, dictatorship, ancestral lands confiscated, famine etc. Privately, I don't care much myself (and I worked as a Dem Congressional staffer for years). Good white liberals don't really get East Asian immigrants.

They don't get ANY immigrants, they are too busy renaming Latino population into latinx and getting offended on everyone's behalf.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What would you know? Are you Asian? Are you fluent in an Asian language?

PP pointed out that Asians in DC public middle and high schools are mostly forced to study Spanish, Latin or beginning Chinese (even if they're fluent). That doesn't exactly sound like rolling out the welcome mat to me. Iffy STEM and unserious music instruction can't help either.

In the burbs, students who can test out of languages generally don't have to study them in schools at all. DC wouldn't dream of giving bilingual/biliterate families that kind of recognition or flexibility. Not equitable.

You are talking about two different things as though they are the same thing.

The first is whether Asian families like the academics at DC public schools enough. The answer is often no, but that's also true for many families of all races. Lots of white, black, Hispanic families move to the suburbs or pay for private due to dissatisfaction with DC public schools. Agree with the PP who noted that perhaps fewer Asian families start out in DC so there might not be an exodus at school age like there are for other families. Maybe that's because there are larger Asian communities in the suburbs and people gravitate towards being closer to family when they have kids, I don't know? But this is not an issue unique to Asian families -- all DC families have to decide for themselves if the school district meets their needs. Lots of families of all races decide it doesn't, not just Asian families.

But the second thing you are talking about is feeling welcomed in the community. I personally think this issue of what languages are taught is a bit of a red herring here. The points other posters have made about how DCPS totally ignores Asians when talking about inclusivity and diversity is a much bigger deal. But the reason DCPS doesn't offer Chinese or other Asian languages at a younger age or at a higher level is that demand is not high enough, pure and simple. You can't offer classes if not enough kids will take them. Spanish is the most commonly-offered language in DCPS and that's as it should be, it's the most spoken language in the US after English and is also widely spoken by many people in the DMV. Mandarin is not spoken that widely here. Yes, many immigrants speak it but many also don't! I have many many 2nd gen friends from China and Taiwan and none of them speak it. Their parents do but are often not invested in their grandkids speaking it. We do have some friends at Yu Ying but even they acknowledge that they don't mind that much that the immersion aspects of YY aren't that good.

Meanwhile, my friends from Spanish backgrounds all speak it to some degree and very much want their kids to speak it. It's a much bigger thing for them. There is huge demand for Spanish immersion in DC, as evidenced by the long waitlists at many of the immersion schools for PK and K.

I don't think the fact that DCPS doesn't offer many Asian languages from a young age is indicative of much. There just isn't the demand. There is more demand in the suburbs where Asian communities make up a huge percentage of school populations, of course there is more demand and it makes sense they'd offer more of those languages. But I mean most DC high schools don't offer AP calculus. I think that's a much bigger issue than the fact that you can't take an advanced Chinese course in 8th grade, and most of my friends from Chinese/Taiwanese backgrounds would agree.

[Anonymous]

I think different well-meaning people here want different things.

I think some people come and are thrilled with the possibility that initiative and entrepreneurship can get them to the highest rungs of society.

Other people want to no longer feel slighted.

Some are focused on what's right in front of them, living out traumas, often re-igniting them in the communities around them.

Others feel comfortable enjoying themselves.

Others want schools to be an engine of change for others, but not really for themselves.

Some just want to learn something.

Others just want a credential so that they can join the workforce.

And there are the differences between what kids want and what parents want.

A lot of what we're saying is true for some and not for all.

There are hypocritical white liberals here. There are true believer white liberals here. There are black integrationists here and black parents who fear what integration into DC's mainstream means for their kids. There are assimilated Asian people here and those who are still trying to meet immigrant pressure from families. There are kids who just want to learn as much as they can and there are kids who just want to play video games until they're too tired to play any more. Or basketball or soccer.

All those people are in DC.

If I had what I wanted for my kids, it would be an integrated school where they got taught to fluency in their heritage language, the hardest math class they could test into, get taught creative and essay writing (not English test prep) every day, and all of the most behind kids were in their school too, and they could socialize across all sorts of lines through very diverse sports teams adequately supported by the city, there are no shunned ghetto schools for a permanent underclass, there is a school band starting before middle school, there are creative extracurriculars like theater and science, and no parents were out fighting boundary changes like they own the schools or fundraising for extras.

I don't know how much of that we can get, and I know some of my rant is self-contradictory, but I do wonder why we can't get at least MORE of that. Why DCPS keeps telling us no and shrinking the pie.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What would you know? Are you Asian? Are you fluent in an Asian language?

PP pointed out that Asians in DC public middle and high schools are mostly forced to study Spanish, Latin or beginning Chinese (even if they're fluent). That doesn't exactly sound like rolling out the welcome mat to me. Iffy STEM and unserious music instruction can't help either.

In the burbs, students who can test out of languages generally don't have to study them in schools at all. DC wouldn't dream of giving bilingual/biliterate families that kind of recognition or flexibility. Not equitable.

You are talking about two different things as though they are the same thing.

The first is whether Asian families like the academics at DC public schools enough. The answer is often no, but that's also true for many families of all races. Lots of white, black, Hispanic families move to the suburbs or pay for private due to dissatisfaction with DC public schools. Agree with the PP who noted that perhaps fewer Asian families start out in DC so there might not be an exodus at school age like there are for other families. Maybe that's because there are larger Asian communities in the suburbs and people gravitate towards being closer to family when they have kids, I don't know? But this is not an issue unique to Asian families -- all DC families have to decide for themselves if the school district meets their needs. Lots of families of all races decide it doesn't, not just Asian families.

But the second thing you are talking about is feeling welcomed in the community. I personally think this issue of what languages are taught is a bit of a red herring here. The points other posters have made about how DCPS totally ignores Asians when talking about inclusivity and diversity is a much bigger deal. But the reason DCPS doesn't offer Chinese or other Asian languages at a younger age or at a higher level is that demand is not high enough, pure and simple. You can't offer classes if not enough kids will take them. Spanish is the most commonly-offered language in DCPS and that's as it should be, it's the most spoken language in the US after English and is also widely spoken by many people in the DMV. Mandarin is not spoken that widely here. Yes, many immigrants speak it but many also don't! I have many many 2nd gen friends from China and Taiwan and none of them speak it. Their parents do but are often not invested in their grandkids speaking it. We do have some friends at Yu Ying but even they acknowledge that they don't mind that much that the immersion aspects of YY aren't that good.

Meanwhile, my friends from Spanish backgrounds all speak it to some degree and very much want their kids to speak it. It's a much bigger thing for them. There is huge demand for Spanish immersion in DC, as evidenced by the long waitlists at many of the immersion schools for PK and K.

I don't think the fact that DCPS doesn't offer many Asian languages from a young age is indicative of much. There just isn't the demand. There is more demand in the suburbs where Asian communities make up a huge percentage of school populations, of course there is more demand and it makes sense they'd offer more of those languages. But I mean most DC high schools don't offer AP calculus. I think that's a much bigger issue than the fact that you can't take an advanced Chinese course in 8th grade, and most of my friends from Chinese/Taiwanese backgrounds would agree.

Does anybody know of a DCPS that has more than 1% Asian enrollment? More than one percent that speak a language other than English, Spanish, or Amharic?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What would you know? Are you Asian? Are you fluent in an Asian language?

PP pointed out that Asians in DC public middle and high schools are mostly forced to study Spanish, Latin or beginning Chinese (even if they're fluent). That doesn't exactly sound like rolling out the welcome mat to me. Iffy STEM and unserious music instruction can't help either.

In the burbs, students who can test out of languages generally don't have to study them in schools at all. DC wouldn't dream of giving bilingual/biliterate families that kind of recognition or flexibility. Not equitable.

You are talking about two different things as though they are the same thing.

The first is whether Asian families like the academics at DC public schools enough. The answer is often no, but that's also true for many families of all races. Lots of white, black, Hispanic families move to the suburbs or pay for private due to dissatisfaction with DC public schools. Agree with the PP who noted that perhaps fewer Asian families start out in DC so there might not be an exodus at school age like there are for other families. Maybe that's because there are larger Asian communities in the suburbs and people gravitate towards being closer to family when they have kids, I don't know? But this is not an issue unique to Asian families -- all DC families have to decide for themselves if the school district meets their needs. Lots of families of all races decide it doesn't, not just Asian families.

But the second thing you are talking about is feeling welcomed in the community. I personally think this issue of what languages are taught is a bit of a red herring here. The points other posters have made about how DCPS totally ignores Asians when talking about inclusivity and diversity is a much bigger deal. But the reason DCPS doesn't offer Chinese or other Asian languages at a younger age or at a higher level is that demand is not high enough, pure and simple. You can't offer classes if not enough kids will take them. Spanish is the most commonly-offered language in DCPS and that's as it should be, it's the most spoken language in the US after English and is also widely spoken by many people in the DMV. Mandarin is not spoken that widely here. Yes, many immigrants speak it but many also don't! I have many many 2nd gen friends from China and Taiwan and none of them speak it. Their parents do but are often not invested in their grandkids speaking it. We do have some friends at Yu Ying but even they acknowledge that they don't mind that much that the immersion aspects of YY aren't that good.

Meanwhile, my friends from Spanish backgrounds all speak it to some degree and very much want their kids to speak it. It's a much bigger thing for them. There is huge demand for Spanish immersion in DC, as evidenced by the long waitlists at many of the immersion schools for PK and K.

I don't think the fact that DCPS doesn't offer many Asian languages from a young age is indicative of much. There just isn't the demand. There is more demand in the suburbs where Asian communities make up a huge percentage of school populations, of course there is more demand and it makes sense they'd offer more of those languages. But I mean most DC high schools don't offer AP calculus. I think that's a much bigger issue than the fact that you can't take an advanced Chinese course in 8th grade, and most of my friends from Chinese/Taiwanese backgrounds would agree.

Does anybody know of a DCPS that has more than 1% Asian enrollment? More than one percent that speak a language other than English, Spanish, or Amharic?

Looking.
Murch: 11% Asian
Hearst: 8%
Marie Reed: 8%
Walls: 8%
Mann: 7%
Hardy: 6%
Jackson Reed: 5%
Deal: 4%
Hyde Addison: 4%
Key: 4%
Janney: 4%
Lafayette 3%
Brent 3%
Bannaker: 2%

[Anonymous]

Lumping all Asians together only tells one so much. East Asian immigrants are far and away the toughest to attract and retain, followed by South Asians (Chinese, Korean, Japanese). Central Asians, particularly Afghan refugees, and Southeast Asian immigrants from Indonesia etc. tend to be easier to attract but aren’t as prevalent in DC. Affluent 2nd generation East Asians who still speak their languages at home seem to be the least likely to find DC public schools acceptable. They seldom stick around after the lower ES grades. They also tend to supplement a lot, with tutors, Kumon, Mathnasium etc.

[Anonymous]

16:02, you've done some longitudinal research?

[Anonymous]

We've been in DC public schools in NW since PreK4. We're at Deal this year, leaving for the burbs for more fertile ground for challenging core academics, instrumental music and an Asian language next year. But we're keeping our DC house of 20 years with help from relatives. Most of our bilingual Asian neighborhood pals have already bailed.

[Anonymous]

Asians generally leave DC public schools somewhere along the way. Nothing new, not changing. If anything the exodus is accelerating under Bowser.

This is a school system for AAs, whites and a few Latinos and others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We've been in DC public schools in NW since PreK4. We're at Deal this year, leaving for the burbs for more fertile ground for challenging core academics, instrumental music and an Asian language next year. But we're keeping our DC house of 20 years with help from relatives. Most of our bilingual Asian neighborhood pals have already bailed.

Where are you headed? VA or MD?

It’s nice to know we can always rent out our NW DC house for a mint and move to Fairfax or MoCo for 4-6 years if we are not satisfied with DCPS. Our kid will be in the new Palisades HS in ten years so hopefully the school will be strong by then.

[Anonymous]

apparently not strong enough to become 3 percent Asian, however....the rabbit holes DCUM gets to.