Thanksgiving with two vegan guests; please help me plan!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP,

You sound kind. I recommend you talk to them before finalizing your plans and make sure what you’re planning to do will actually be something that works for them and is appreciated. I was assigned to bring desserts one year, and my husband’s side of the family includes one gluten free person and one gluten free/dairy free person. I thought I was doing a nice thing by special ordering very beautiful expensive gf/df personal apple pies from a local bakery that is fully gf (no cross contamination). It was an inconvenient place for me to go while simultaneously trying to bake regular desserts and pack my family to travel. Both people I bought the desserts for didn’t eat them or even taste them to be polite! The gf/df person packed her own fruit for dessert and the gf person just ate vanilla ice cream I had brought to serve with the pies. Lesson learned was that sometimes people with dietary restrictions are actually even more complex and disordered/picky about food than their restriction category indicates, so you may want to check if they even like mushrooms or potatoes or whatever so you don’t go to the trouble unless it will be eaten/appreciated.

Not liking pumpkin pie is not "disordered" or picky -- most people don't like it. Literally every single year I wonder why we serve it at Thanksgiving. But they were probably used to having such serious diarrhea after eating food brought by well intentioned relatives that they've learned the hard way not to eat it.

NP. In that case, they should not even make their dietary restrictions or choices known to other people. If you are going to share that kind of information—which is helpful to most hosts—you should be prepared to graciously eat what is offered, like a guest. Knowing that holiday meals often include contributions from others, you should be prepared for the fact that other people will likely have gone literally out of their way for you. If you have “learned the hard way” not to eat this or that when people are just trying to be helpful and welcoming, bring your own food or be prepared to eat before or after. Honestly, there is no pleasing or accommodating picky, particular, difficult people who honestly CHOOSE to be ridiculous.

I am not a picky eater. I eat everything. I'm simply saying that the extreme negative reactions to people's dietary restrictions are weird -- weirder then the dietary restrictions. It is not "disordered" to not like pumpkin pie. It also would not be reasonable for a guest allergic to gluten and dairy to say, "Sorry, no, I've had too much diarrhea. This time I'll pass." The normal thing would just be to not eat it. Sounds like the host delegated pies to the PP and told her about the two guests with dietary restrictions. I doubt the guests with restrictions asked that PP directly. Just guessing tho.

It was apple pies, not a pumpkin pie (which I agree is gross and I am not picky and have no dietary restrictions). Both guests eat and enjoy apples, have eaten things of this type in the past, and weren’t too full for dessert (as I mentioned, one ate ice cream, the other pulled out a big fruit salad she packed for herself). They were being rude, picky and disordered by refusing the pies, which were beautiful and appetizing-looking. I am not saying they needed to eat the pies if they would prefer to eat something else. I’m just saying that *sometimes* other wacky food issues accompany people who choose to follow restrictive diets in the first place. And even when you go out of your way to make a nice meal for these people in spite of the extra work, they may actually not appreciate any of your efforts or actually prefer fruit and salad. The only way to know is to ask.

You're the one with the wacky issues. You got your feelings hurt because you went out of your way to get the special pies and and instead of the praise you expected, no one ate them. That is a totally understandable reaction. It's not understandable to label the people who didn't want them "disordered". I made a delicious dish for a swim team banquet one year and hardly anyone touched it. I was hurt. But I didn't call the entire swim team and their parents, wacky, picky and disordered. Such is life.

And BTW people who are gf and df do not CHOOSE to follow restrictive diets. They get severe diarrhea if they eat gluten or dairy. How can anyone not know this in 2022?

NP. A lot of people with eating disorders do, in fact, self-diagnose food allergies as a way to disguise their disorder. This is a well-known fact. I challenge you to do research. Another way that people with eating disorders hide their disorder is extreme training like for a marathon. That way, it’s always “oh sorry I can’t, I’m training for the marathon” rather than “I can’t enjoy foods like that because I am afraid of them and have to feel in control.” Of course some people do have real allergies or really are lactose intolerant, etc. But a lot of people use that kind of thing as an excuse to hide the disorder. This includes veganism. I’m not saying all vegans have eating disorders; I am saying that many people with eating disorders use a vegan diet (or gluten free, etc.) as a shield.

This sounds like an exhausting way to go through life -- assuming people are actually hiding a disorder. Oh brother.

DP. But it’s a fact. There’s research. I actually feel bad for these people. Society makes it hard to admit the disorder and therefore get treatment.

I’m the PP who posted the information that dietary restrictions, self-diagnosed “allergies” and extreme training (marathons, triathlons) are medically proven “masks” for disordered eating. I hope it goes without saying that I, too, feel very bad for those who suffer from eating disorders, and I was only trying to provide information and context. Very strict diets like veganism, constant big-event training and self-diagnosed food restrictions are red flags, and I wish more people would know that these are actually things to look out for. Again, of course people can be healthy and choose to be vegan or choose to train for athletic events, etc. I’m just saying that these can be clues, so be on the lookout if you suspect that someone may be suffering and may need help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP,

You sound kind. I recommend you talk to them before finalizing your plans and make sure what you’re planning to do will actually be something that works for them and is appreciated. I was assigned to bring desserts one year, and my husband’s side of the family includes one gluten free person and one gluten free/dairy free person. I thought I was doing a nice thing by special ordering very beautiful expensive gf/df personal apple pies from a local bakery that is fully gf (no cross contamination). It was an inconvenient place for me to go while simultaneously trying to bake regular desserts and pack my family to travel. Both people I bought the desserts for didn’t eat them or even taste them to be polite! The gf/df person packed her own fruit for dessert and the gf person just ate vanilla ice cream I had brought to serve with the pies. Lesson learned was that sometimes people with dietary restrictions are actually even more complex and disordered/picky about food than their restriction category indicates, so you may want to check if they even like mushrooms or potatoes or whatever so you don’t go to the trouble unless it will be eaten/appreciated.

Not liking pumpkin pie is not "disordered" or picky -- most people don't like it. Literally every single year I wonder why we serve it at Thanksgiving. But they were probably used to having such serious diarrhea after eating food brought by well intentioned relatives that they've learned the hard way not to eat it.

NP. In that case, they should not even make their dietary restrictions or choices known to other people. If you are going to share that kind of information—which is helpful to most hosts—you should be prepared to graciously eat what is offered, like a guest. Knowing that holiday meals often include contributions from others, you should be prepared for the fact that other people will likely have gone literally out of their way for you. If you have “learned the hard way” not to eat this or that when people are just trying to be helpful and welcoming, bring your own food or be prepared to eat before or after. Honestly, there is no pleasing or accommodating picky, particular, difficult people who honestly CHOOSE to be ridiculous.

I am not a picky eater. I eat everything. I'm simply saying that the extreme negative reactions to people's dietary restrictions are weird -- weirder then the dietary restrictions. It is not "disordered" to not like pumpkin pie. It also would not be reasonable for a guest allergic to gluten and dairy to say, "Sorry, no, I've had too much diarrhea. This time I'll pass." The normal thing would just be to not eat it. Sounds like the host delegated pies to the PP and told her about the two guests with dietary restrictions. I doubt the guests with restrictions asked that PP directly. Just guessing tho.

It was apple pies, not a pumpkin pie (which I agree is gross and I am not picky and have no dietary restrictions). Both guests eat and enjoy apples, have eaten things of this type in the past, and weren’t too full for dessert (as I mentioned, one ate ice cream, the other pulled out a big fruit salad she packed for herself). They were being rude, picky and disordered by refusing the pies, which were beautiful and appetizing-looking. I am not saying they needed to eat the pies if they would prefer to eat something else. I’m just saying that *sometimes* other wacky food issues accompany people who choose to follow restrictive diets in the first place. And even when you go out of your way to make a nice meal for these people in spite of the extra work, they may actually not appreciate any of your efforts or actually prefer fruit and salad. The only way to know is to ask.

You're the one with the wacky issues. You got your feelings hurt because you went out of your way to get the special pies and and instead of the praise you expected, no one ate them. That is a totally understandable reaction. It's not understandable to label the people who didn't want them "disordered". I made a delicious dish for a swim team banquet one year and hardly anyone touched it. I was hurt. But I didn't call the entire swim team and their parents, wacky, picky and disordered. Such is life.

And BTW people who are gf and df do not CHOOSE to follow restrictive diets. They get severe diarrhea if they eat gluten or dairy. How can anyone not know this in 2022?

They weren’t worried about diarrhea! They ate various parts of the rest of the meal that were cooked by others in regular kitchens that they didn’t cook/supervise themselves. They also didn’t say anything to the effect of “thank you so much for thinking of me and getting this beautiful pie.” They just awkwardly left it sitting on the table for all to stare at. When my husband asked if maybe they wanted to have it packed up to take home with their leftovers, they couldn’t even politely do that. They just suggested we either eat it ourselves or throw it away. You can continue to defend them because evidently no gluten free person could ever be rude or impolite in your mind. But this idea that they acted this way to avoid diarrhea doesn’t really apply to the OP’s guests anyway, but the foods they do eat and appreciate are relevant, which was my point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It seems awfully early for the suck it vegans posters to be out.

Nope, vegans suck 24/7/365

I'd much rather be vegan than hateful.

NP

That’s a real Sophie’s choice, there…

LOL

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP,

You sound kind. I recommend you talk to them before finalizing your plans and make sure what you’re planning to do will actually be something that works for them and is appreciated. I was assigned to bring desserts one year, and my husband’s side of the family includes one gluten free person and one gluten free/dairy free person. I thought I was doing a nice thing by special ordering very beautiful expensive gf/df personal apple pies from a local bakery that is fully gf (no cross contamination). It was an inconvenient place for me to go while simultaneously trying to bake regular desserts and pack my family to travel. Both people I bought the desserts for didn’t eat them or even taste them to be polite! The gf/df person packed her own fruit for dessert and the gf person just ate vanilla ice cream I had brought to serve with the pies. Lesson learned was that sometimes people with dietary restrictions are actually even more complex and disordered/picky about food than their restriction category indicates, so you may want to check if they even like mushrooms or potatoes or whatever so you don’t go to the trouble unless it will be eaten/appreciated.

Not liking pumpkin pie is not "disordered" or picky -- most people don't like it. Literally every single year I wonder why we serve it at Thanksgiving. But they were probably used to having such serious diarrhea after eating food brought by well intentioned relatives that they've learned the hard way not to eat it.

NP. In that case, they should not even make their dietary restrictions or choices known to other people. If you are going to share that kind of information—which is helpful to most hosts—you should be prepared to graciously eat what is offered, like a guest. Knowing that holiday meals often include contributions from others, you should be prepared for the fact that other people will likely have gone literally out of their way for you. If you have “learned the hard way” not to eat this or that when people are just trying to be helpful and welcoming, bring your own food or be prepared to eat before or after. Honestly, there is no pleasing or accommodating picky, particular, difficult people who honestly CHOOSE to be ridiculous.

I am not a picky eater. I eat everything. I'm simply saying that the extreme negative reactions to people's dietary restrictions are weird -- weirder then the dietary restrictions. It is not "disordered" to not like pumpkin pie. It also would not be reasonable for a guest allergic to gluten and dairy to say, "Sorry, no, I've had too much diarrhea. This time I'll pass." The normal thing would just be to not eat it. Sounds like the host delegated pies to the PP and told her about the two guests with dietary restrictions. I doubt the guests with restrictions asked that PP directly. Just guessing tho.

It was apple pies, not a pumpkin pie (which I agree is gross and I am not picky and have no dietary restrictions). Both guests eat and enjoy apples, have eaten things of this type in the past, and weren’t too full for dessert (as I mentioned, one ate ice cream, the other pulled out a big fruit salad she packed for herself). They were being rude, picky and disordered by refusing the pies, which were beautiful and appetizing-looking. I am not saying they needed to eat the pies if they would prefer to eat something else. I’m just saying that *sometimes* other wacky food issues accompany people who choose to follow restrictive diets in the first place. And even when you go out of your way to make a nice meal for these people in spite of the extra work, they may actually not appreciate any of your efforts or actually prefer fruit and salad. The only way to know is to ask.

You're the one with the wacky issues. You got your feelings hurt because you went out of your way to get the special pies and and instead of the praise you expected, no one ate them. That is a totally understandable reaction. It's not understandable to label the people who didn't want them "disordered". I made a delicious dish for a swim team banquet one year and hardly anyone touched it. I was hurt. But I didn't call the entire swim team and their parents, wacky, picky and disordered. Such is life.

And BTW people who are gf and df do not CHOOSE to follow restrictive diets. They get severe diarrhea if they eat gluten or dairy. How can anyone not know this in 2022?

NP. A lot of people with eating disorders do, in fact, self-diagnose food allergies as a way to disguise their disorder. This is a well-known fact. I challenge you to do research. Another way that people with eating disorders hide their disorder is extreme training like for a marathon. That way, it’s always “oh sorry I can’t, I’m training for the marathon” rather than “I can’t enjoy foods like that because I am afraid of them and have to feel in control.” Of course some people do have real allergies or really are lactose intolerant, etc. But a lot of people use that kind of thing as an excuse to hide the disorder. This includes veganism. I’m not saying all vegans have eating disorders; I am saying that many people with eating disorders use a vegan diet (or gluten free, etc.) as a shield.

This sounds like an exhausting way to go through life -- assuming people are actually hiding a disorder. Oh brother.

DP. But it’s a fact. There’s research. I actually feel bad for these people. Society makes it hard to admit the disorder and therefore get treatment.

It also makes it really difficult to be diagnosed. My blood tests are from after I remove those things from my diet that were making me incredibly unwell. So one paper I don’t have any food sensitivities. But if you want to spend 24 hours with me with a loaf of bread and some cheese… Better bring the bleach and gloves for the bathroom. Also if you could continue to come for about a month to help me treat the blistering hives that would be amazing. OK thanks bye

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just found out that my cousin and her new husband are vegan. They live far away, so they can’t bring anything for Thanksgiving. I’m hosting 16 total, and I’d say the other 14 guests (this count includes my family) are very traditional eaters. The only other factor is nut allergies, but that’s my kids so I naturally work that into the menu. I think the other guests are pretty traditional and expect the usual fare. I’m happy to do some extra work, but I’d love to pinch-hit with vegan store-bought items from Wegmans, if anyone happens to know of anything good.

Appetizers could be:
Veggies/chips with homemade French onion dip and hummus as the vegan option
Maybe shot glasses of vegan vichyssoise?

Dinner of:
Turkey, gravy
Mashed potatoes

Could make vegan versions of:
Mashed potatoes (small side dish that I would keep by and then add butter and cream/milk to the majority of the pot)
Burgundy mushrooms (I usually make with butter but I think I can easily make these vegan)
Dressing (easy enough to use vegetable stock instead of chicken stock, but I might get dinged by the majority for this as I think it wont’ t taste as good)
Cranberry sauce
Roasted vegetables
Maybe some type of roll? Does anyone know of a good vegan bread mix or cornbread mix or some such?

Dessert:
Traditional versions of pumpkin pie, apple pie and pecan pie
I could make apple pie filling for vegans and just have that warm in a crock pot?
Maybe add some kind of vegan brownie? Need help with dessert ideas

Is the above enough food for the vegans? They can make a plate of that, right?

make pumpkin pie vegan with canned coconut cream https://www.noracooks.com/vegan-pumpkin-pie/
WF actually has some awesome vegan desserts and any vegan bakery will have vegan treats around the holidays. If you are in VA/MD, Elizabeths counter in Alexandria may have thanksgiving related items and their donuts are AWESSSSSSOOOMMEEE

Vegan mashed potatoes are easy- use veggie stock and vegan butter. miyokos is great. You can make cornbread vegan. Bakeries sell vegan rolls.

-non vegan whose son was DF for 4 years, which meant basically vegan bakeries were our go-tos

No, OP is doing enough cooking and baking and does not need to make an entire vegan pumpkin pie for two people. She’s already making apple, so making more of the filling and omitting butter and setting it aside in a crock pot is only a little bit of extra work. If the vegans are concerned they can order a vegan dessert and ship it to OP’s house; living far away is no excuse not to contribute to a meal, especially when you are the difficult one.

The bully steps in and encourages the OP to not be nice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP,

You sound kind. I recommend you talk to them before finalizing your plans and make sure what you’re planning to do will actually be something that works for them and is appreciated. I was assigned to bring desserts one year, and my husband’s side of the family includes one gluten free person and one gluten free/dairy free person. I thought I was doing a nice thing by special ordering very beautiful expensive gf/df personal apple pies from a local bakery that is fully gf (no cross contamination). It was an inconvenient place for me to go while simultaneously trying to bake regular desserts and pack my family to travel. Both people I bought the desserts for didn’t eat them or even taste them to be polite! The gf/df person packed her own fruit for dessert and the gf person just ate vanilla ice cream I had brought to serve with the pies. Lesson learned was that sometimes people with dietary restrictions are actually even more complex and disordered/picky about food than their restriction category indicates, so you may want to check if they even like mushrooms or potatoes or whatever so you don’t go to the trouble unless it will be eaten/appreciated.

Not liking pumpkin pie is not "disordered" or picky -- most people don't like it. Literally every single year I wonder why we serve it at Thanksgiving. But they were probably used to having such serious diarrhea after eating food brought by well intentioned relatives that they've learned the hard way not to eat it.

NP. In that case, they should not even make their dietary restrictions or choices known to other people. If you are going to share that kind of information—which is helpful to most hosts—you should be prepared to graciously eat what is offered, like a guest. Knowing that holiday meals often include contributions from others, you should be prepared for the fact that other people will likely have gone literally out of their way for you. If you have “learned the hard way” not to eat this or that when people are just trying to be helpful and welcoming, bring your own food or be prepared to eat before or after. Honestly, there is no pleasing or accommodating picky, particular, difficult people who honestly CHOOSE to be ridiculous.

I am not a picky eater. I eat everything. I'm simply saying that the extreme negative reactions to people's dietary restrictions are weird -- weirder then the dietary restrictions. It is not "disordered" to not like pumpkin pie. It also would not be reasonable for a guest allergic to gluten and dairy to say, "Sorry, no, I've had too much diarrhea. This time I'll pass." The normal thing would just be to not eat it. Sounds like the host delegated pies to the PP and told her about the two guests with dietary restrictions. I doubt the guests with restrictions asked that PP directly. Just guessing tho.

It was apple pies, not a pumpkin pie (which I agree is gross and I am not picky and have no dietary restrictions). Both guests eat and enjoy apples, have eaten things of this type in the past, and weren’t too full for dessert (as I mentioned, one ate ice cream, the other pulled out a big fruit salad she packed for herself). They were being rude, picky and disordered by refusing the pies, which were beautiful and appetizing-looking. I am not saying they needed to eat the pies if they would prefer to eat something else. I’m just saying that *sometimes* other wacky food issues accompany people who choose to follow restrictive diets in the first place. And even when you go out of your way to make a nice meal for these people in spite of the extra work, they may actually not appreciate any of your efforts or actually prefer fruit and salad. The only way to know is to ask.

You're the one with the wacky issues. You got your feelings hurt because you went out of your way to get the special pies and and instead of the praise you expected, no one ate them. That is a totally understandable reaction. It's not understandable to label the people who didn't want them "disordered". I made a delicious dish for a swim team banquet one year and hardly anyone touched it. I was hurt. But I didn't call the entire swim team and their parents, wacky, picky and disordered. Such is life.

And BTW people who are gf and df do not CHOOSE to follow restrictive diets. They get severe diarrhea if they eat gluten or dairy. How can anyone not know this in 2022?

They weren’t worried about diarrhea! They ate various parts of the rest of the meal that were cooked by others in regular kitchens that they didn’t cook/supervise themselves. They also didn’t say anything to the effect of “thank you so much for thinking of me and getting this beautiful pie.” They just awkwardly left it sitting on the table for all to stare at. When my husband asked if maybe they wanted to have it packed up to take home with their leftovers, they couldn’t even politely do that. They just suggested we either eat it ourselves or throw it away. You can continue to defend them because evidently no gluten free person could ever be rude or impolite in your mind. But this idea that they acted this way to avoid diarrhea doesn’t really apply to the OP’s guests anyway, but the foods they do eat and appreciate are relevant, which was my point.

You’re still ruminating.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just found out that my cousin and her new husband are vegan. They live far away, so they can’t bring anything for Thanksgiving. I’m hosting 16 total, and I’d say the other 14 guests (this count includes my family) are very traditional eaters. The only other factor is nut allergies, but that’s my kids so I naturally work that into the menu. I think the other guests are pretty traditional and expect the usual fare. I’m happy to do some extra work, but I’d love to pinch-hit with vegan store-bought items from Wegmans, if anyone happens to know of anything good.

Appetizers could be:
Veggies/chips with homemade French onion dip and hummus as the vegan option
Maybe shot glasses of vegan vichyssoise?

Dinner of:
Turkey, gravy
Mashed potatoes

Could make vegan versions of:
Mashed potatoes (small side dish that I would keep by and then add butter and cream/milk to the majority of the pot)
Burgundy mushrooms (I usually make with butter but I think I can easily make these vegan)
Dressing (easy enough to use vegetable stock instead of chicken stock, but I might get dinged by the majority for this as I think it wont’ t taste as good)
Cranberry sauce
Roasted vegetables
Maybe some type of roll? Does anyone know of a good vegan bread mix or cornbread mix or some such?

Dessert:
Traditional versions of pumpkin pie, apple pie and pecan pie
I could make apple pie filling for vegans and just have that warm in a crock pot?
Maybe add some kind of vegan brownie? Need help with dessert ideas

Is the above enough food for the vegans? They can make a plate of that, right?

make pumpkin pie vegan with canned coconut cream https://www.noracooks.com/vegan-pumpkin-pie/
WF actually has some awesome vegan desserts and any vegan bakery will have vegan treats around the holidays. If you are in VA/MD, Elizabeths counter in Alexandria may have thanksgiving related items and their donuts are AWESSSSSSOOOMMEEE

Vegan mashed potatoes are easy- use veggie stock and vegan butter. miyokos is great. You can make cornbread vegan. Bakeries sell vegan rolls.

-non vegan whose son was DF for 4 years, which meant basically vegan bakeries were our go-tos

Haha I just had a flashback on how my vegan friend always tries to tell me how her vegan stuff is soooo yummy. Please OP don’t go for this advice! Even my 12 yo would know something’s wrong with this year’s menu lol

She prob doesn’t know how to cook and your palate is blown out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP,

You sound kind. I recommend you talk to them before finalizing your plans and make sure what you’re planning to do will actually be something that works for them and is appreciated. I was assigned to bring desserts one year, and my husband’s side of the family includes one gluten free person and one gluten free/dairy free person. I thought I was doing a nice thing by special ordering very beautiful expensive gf/df personal apple pies from a local bakery that is fully gf (no cross contamination). It was an inconvenient place for me to go while simultaneously trying to bake regular desserts and pack my family to travel. Both people I bought the desserts for didn’t eat them or even taste them to be polite! The gf/df person packed her own fruit for dessert and the gf person just ate vanilla ice cream I had brought to serve with the pies. Lesson learned was that sometimes people with dietary restrictions are actually even more complex and disordered/picky about food than their restriction category indicates, so you may want to check if they even like mushrooms or potatoes or whatever so you don’t go to the trouble unless it will be eaten/appreciated.

Not liking pumpkin pie is not "disordered" or picky -- most people don't like it. Literally every single year I wonder why we serve it at Thanksgiving. But they were probably used to having such serious diarrhea after eating food brought by well intentioned relatives that they've learned the hard way not to eat it.

NP. In that case, they should not even make their dietary restrictions or choices known to other people. If you are going to share that kind of information—which is helpful to most hosts—you should be prepared to graciously eat what is offered, like a guest. Knowing that holiday meals often include contributions from others, you should be prepared for the fact that other people will likely have gone literally out of their way for you. If you have “learned the hard way” not to eat this or that when people are just trying to be helpful and welcoming, bring your own food or be prepared to eat before or after. Honestly, there is no pleasing or accommodating picky, particular, difficult people who honestly CHOOSE to be ridiculous.

I am not a picky eater. I eat everything. I'm simply saying that the extreme negative reactions to people's dietary restrictions are weird -- weirder then the dietary restrictions. It is not "disordered" to not like pumpkin pie. It also would not be reasonable for a guest allergic to gluten and dairy to say, "Sorry, no, I've had too much diarrhea. This time I'll pass." The normal thing would just be to not eat it. Sounds like the host delegated pies to the PP and told her about the two guests with dietary restrictions. I doubt the guests with restrictions asked that PP directly. Just guessing tho.

It was apple pies, not a pumpkin pie (which I agree is gross and I am not picky and have no dietary restrictions). Both guests eat and enjoy apples, have eaten things of this type in the past, and weren’t too full for dessert (as I mentioned, one ate ice cream, the other pulled out a big fruit salad she packed for herself). They were being rude, picky and disordered by refusing the pies, which were beautiful and appetizing-looking. I am not saying they needed to eat the pies if they would prefer to eat something else. I’m just saying that *sometimes* other wacky food issues accompany people who choose to follow restrictive diets in the first place. And even when you go out of your way to make a nice meal for these people in spite of the extra work, they may actually not appreciate any of your efforts or actually prefer fruit and salad. The only way to know is to ask.

You're the one with the wacky issues. You got your feelings hurt because you went out of your way to get the special pies and and instead of the praise you expected, no one ate them. That is a totally understandable reaction. It's not understandable to label the people who didn't want them "disordered". I made a delicious dish for a swim team banquet one year and hardly anyone touched it. I was hurt. But I didn't call the entire swim team and their parents, wacky, picky and disordered. Such is life.

And BTW people who are gf and df do not CHOOSE to follow restrictive diets. They get severe diarrhea if they eat gluten or dairy. How can anyone not know this in 2022?

They weren’t worried about diarrhea! They ate various parts of the rest of the meal that were cooked by others in regular kitchens that they didn’t cook/supervise themselves. They also didn’t say anything to the effect of “thank you so much for thinking of me and getting this beautiful pie.” They just awkwardly left it sitting on the table for all to stare at. When my husband asked if maybe they wanted to have it packed up to take home with their leftovers, they couldn’t even politely do that. They just suggested we either eat it ourselves or throw it away. You can continue to defend them because evidently no gluten free person could ever be rude or impolite in your mind. But this idea that they acted this way to avoid diarrhea doesn’t really apply to the OP’s guests anyway, but the foods they do eat and appreciate are relevant, which was my point.

And I’m sorry. I’m going to hijack this post one more time. The one who ate the ice cream instead does this with lots of gifts. She loved the ice cream so much that I brought that when she had a job promotion, I sent her a few pints via the ice cream company’s website as a gift/surprise. Instead of expressing any of the typical things you would express, she pouted and told me that her ice cream actually somehow arrived melted and could I call the company for her to express the problem and re-order it for her? Ok, sorry to go off track. Resume helping OP!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: Vegan here: First, thank you for your consideration. That is very kind of you to try to accommodate. Some easy options are baked potatoes or baked sweet potatoes. You can roast veggies quite easily too. Some great options for this are brussel sprouts and asparagus. Roasted butternut squash is also great. Butternut squash or pumpkin soup are other options.

Here are some great web sites for reference:

https://www.bakerita.com/gluten-free-vegan-thanksgiving-recipes/

https://thevegan8.com/the-vegan-8-thanksgiving-roundup-all-recipes-vegan-gluten-free-and-oil-free-2/

https://www.eatingbyelaine.com/ultimate-vegan-thanksgiving-recipe-roundup/

https://veganhuggs.com/vegan-gluten-free-thanksgiving-recipes/

These are great. Thank you!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP,

You sound kind. I recommend you talk to them before finalizing your plans and make sure what you’re planning to do will actually be something that works for them and is appreciated. I was assigned to bring desserts one year, and my husband’s side of the family includes one gluten free person and one gluten free/dairy free person. I thought I was doing a nice thing by special ordering very beautiful expensive gf/df personal apple pies from a local bakery that is fully gf (no cross contamination). It was an inconvenient place for me to go while simultaneously trying to bake regular desserts and pack my family to travel. Both people I bought the desserts for didn’t eat them or even taste them to be polite! The gf/df person packed her own fruit for dessert and the gf person just ate vanilla ice cream I had brought to serve with the pies. Lesson learned was that sometimes people with dietary restrictions are actually even more complex and disordered/picky about food than their restriction category indicates, so you may want to check if they even like mushrooms or potatoes or whatever so you don’t go to the trouble unless it will be eaten/appreciated.

Not liking pumpkin pie is not "disordered" or picky -- most people don't like it. Literally every single year I wonder why we serve it at Thanksgiving. But they were probably used to having such serious diarrhea after eating food brought by well intentioned relatives that they've learned the hard way not to eat it.

NP. In that case, they should not even make their dietary restrictions or choices known to other people. If you are going to share that kind of information—which is helpful to most hosts—you should be prepared to graciously eat what is offered, like a guest. Knowing that holiday meals often include contributions from others, you should be prepared for the fact that other people will likely have gone literally out of their way for you. If you have “learned the hard way” not to eat this or that when people are just trying to be helpful and welcoming, bring your own food or be prepared to eat before or after. Honestly, there is no pleasing or accommodating picky, particular, difficult people who honestly CHOOSE to be ridiculous.

I am not a picky eater. I eat everything. I'm simply saying that the extreme negative reactions to people's dietary restrictions are weird -- weirder then the dietary restrictions. It is not "disordered" to not like pumpkin pie. It also would not be reasonable for a guest allergic to gluten and dairy to say, "Sorry, no, I've had too much diarrhea. This time I'll pass." The normal thing would just be to not eat it. Sounds like the host delegated pies to the PP and told her about the two guests with dietary restrictions. I doubt the guests with restrictions asked that PP directly. Just guessing tho.

It was apple pies, not a pumpkin pie (which I agree is gross and I am not picky and have no dietary restrictions). Both guests eat and enjoy apples, have eaten things of this type in the past, and weren’t too full for dessert (as I mentioned, one ate ice cream, the other pulled out a big fruit salad she packed for herself). They were being rude, picky and disordered by refusing the pies, which were beautiful and appetizing-looking. I am not saying they needed to eat the pies if they would prefer to eat something else. I’m just saying that *sometimes* other wacky food issues accompany people who choose to follow restrictive diets in the first place. And even when you go out of your way to make a nice meal for these people in spite of the extra work, they may actually not appreciate any of your efforts or actually prefer fruit and salad. The only way to know is to ask.

You're the one with the wacky issues. You got your feelings hurt because you went out of your way to get the special pies and and instead of the praise you expected, no one ate them. That is a totally understandable reaction. It's not understandable to label the people who didn't want them "disordered". I made a delicious dish for a swim team banquet one year and hardly anyone touched it. I was hurt. But I didn't call the entire swim team and their parents, wacky, picky and disordered. Such is life.

And BTW people who are gf and df do not CHOOSE to follow restrictive diets. They get severe diarrhea if they eat gluten or dairy. How can anyone not know this in 2022?

They weren’t worried about diarrhea! They ate various parts of the rest of the meal that were cooked by others in regular kitchens that they didn’t cook/supervise themselves. They also didn’t say anything to the effect of “thank you so much for thinking of me and getting this beautiful pie.” They just awkwardly left it sitting on the table for all to stare at. When my husband asked if maybe they wanted to have it packed up to take home with their leftovers, they couldn’t even politely do that. They just suggested we either eat it ourselves or throw it away. You can continue to defend them because evidently no gluten free person could ever be rude or impolite in your mind. But this idea that they acted this way to avoid diarrhea doesn’t really apply to the OP’s guests anyway, but the foods they do eat and appreciate are relevant, which was my point.

You’re still ruminating.

And you are still trying to gaslight me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just found out that my cousin and her new husband are vegan. They live far away, so they can’t bring anything for Thanksgiving. I’m hosting 16 total, and I’d say the other 14 guests (this count includes my family) are very traditional eaters. The only other factor is nut allergies, but that’s my kids so I naturally work that into the menu. I think the other guests are pretty traditional and expect the usual fare. I’m happy to do some extra work, but I’d love to pinch-hit with vegan store-bought items from Wegmans, if anyone happens to know of anything good.

Appetizers could be:
Veggies/chips with homemade French onion dip and hummus as the vegan option
Maybe shot glasses of vegan vichyssoise?

Dinner of:
Turkey, gravy
Mashed potatoes

Could make vegan versions of:
Mashed potatoes (small side dish that I would keep by and then add butter and cream/milk to the majority of the pot)
Burgundy mushrooms (I usually make with butter but I think I can easily make these vegan)
Dressing (easy enough to use vegetable stock instead of chicken stock, but I might get dinged by the majority for this as I think it wont’ t taste as good)
Cranberry sauce
Roasted vegetables
Maybe some type of roll? Does anyone know of a good vegan bread mix or cornbread mix or some such?

Dessert:
Traditional versions of pumpkin pie, apple pie and pecan pie
I could make apple pie filling for vegans and just have that warm in a crock pot?
Maybe add some kind of vegan brownie? Need help with dessert ideas

Is the above enough food for the vegans? They can make a plate of that, right?

make pumpkin pie vegan with canned coconut cream https://www.noracooks.com/vegan-pumpkin-pie/
WF actually has some awesome vegan desserts and any vegan bakery will have vegan treats around the holidays. If you are in VA/MD, Elizabeths counter in Alexandria may have thanksgiving related items and their donuts are AWESSSSSSOOOMMEEE

Vegan mashed potatoes are easy- use veggie stock and vegan butter. miyokos is great. You can make cornbread vegan. Bakeries sell vegan rolls.

-non vegan whose son was DF for 4 years, which meant basically vegan bakeries were our go-tos

No, OP is doing enough cooking and baking and does not need to make an entire vegan pumpkin pie for two people. She’s already making apple, so making more of the filling and omitting butter and setting it aside in a crock pot is only a little bit of extra work. If the vegans are concerned they can order a vegan dessert and ship it to OP’s house; living far away is no excuse not to contribute to a meal, especially when you are the difficult one.

it wouldnt be separate nitwit. everything can be made vegan using substitutes. everything using butter can use vegan butter. anything use chix stock can use veggie stock.

Nobody wants “vegan substitutes” that irritate the bowels on Thanksgiving. Thanksgiving is for traditional, indulgent food with real ingredients. It’s one special day of the year with pies front and center, and that shouldn’t be messed with just because two people choose to follow an absurd diet.

If your bowels are that easily irritated then you must be disordered. No one's bowels are actually irritated, ever. It's all in your mind, and you are "the difficult one."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP,

You sound kind. I recommend you talk to them before finalizing your plans and make sure what you’re planning to do will actually be something that works for them and is appreciated. I was assigned to bring desserts one year, and my husband’s side of the family includes one gluten free person and one gluten free/dairy free person. I thought I was doing a nice thing by special ordering very beautiful expensive gf/df personal apple pies from a local bakery that is fully gf (no cross contamination). It was an inconvenient place for me to go while simultaneously trying to bake regular desserts and pack my family to travel. Both people I bought the desserts for didn’t eat them or even taste them to be polite! The gf/df person packed her own fruit for dessert and the gf person just ate vanilla ice cream I had brought to serve with the pies. Lesson learned was that sometimes people with dietary restrictions are actually even more complex and disordered/picky about food than their restriction category indicates, so you may want to check if they even like mushrooms or potatoes or whatever so you don’t go to the trouble unless it will be eaten/appreciated.

Not liking pumpkin pie is not "disordered" or picky -- most people don't like it. Literally every single year I wonder why we serve it at Thanksgiving. But they were probably used to having such serious diarrhea after eating food brought by well intentioned relatives that they've learned the hard way not to eat it.

NP. In that case, they should not even make their dietary restrictions or choices known to other people. If you are going to share that kind of information—which is helpful to most hosts—you should be prepared to graciously eat what is offered, like a guest. Knowing that holiday meals often include contributions from others, you should be prepared for the fact that other people will likely have gone literally out of their way for you. If you have “learned the hard way” not to eat this or that when people are just trying to be helpful and welcoming, bring your own food or be prepared to eat before or after. Honestly, there is no pleasing or accommodating picky, particular, difficult people who honestly CHOOSE to be ridiculous.

I am not a picky eater. I eat everything. I'm simply saying that the extreme negative reactions to people's dietary restrictions are weird -- weirder then the dietary restrictions. It is not "disordered" to not like pumpkin pie. It also would not be reasonable for a guest allergic to gluten and dairy to say, "Sorry, no, I've had too much diarrhea. This time I'll pass." The normal thing would just be to not eat it. Sounds like the host delegated pies to the PP and told her about the two guests with dietary restrictions. I doubt the guests with restrictions asked that PP directly. Just guessing tho.

It was apple pies, not a pumpkin pie (which I agree is gross and I am not picky and have no dietary restrictions). Both guests eat and enjoy apples, have eaten things of this type in the past, and weren’t too full for dessert (as I mentioned, one ate ice cream, the other pulled out a big fruit salad she packed for herself). They were being rude, picky and disordered by refusing the pies, which were beautiful and appetizing-looking. I am not saying they needed to eat the pies if they would prefer to eat something else. I’m just saying that *sometimes* other wacky food issues accompany people who choose to follow restrictive diets in the first place. And even when you go out of your way to make a nice meal for these people in spite of the extra work, they may actually not appreciate any of your efforts or actually prefer fruit and salad. The only way to know is to ask.

You're the one with the wacky issues. You got your feelings hurt because you went out of your way to get the special pies and and instead of the praise you expected, no one ate them. That is a totally understandable reaction. It's not understandable to label the people who didn't want them "disordered". I made a delicious dish for a swim team banquet one year and hardly anyone touched it. I was hurt. But I didn't call the entire swim team and their parents, wacky, picky and disordered. Such is life.

And BTW people who are gf and df do not CHOOSE to follow restrictive diets. They get severe diarrhea if they eat gluten or dairy. How can anyone not know this in 2022?

NP. A lot of people with eating disorders do, in fact, self-diagnose food allergies as a way to disguise their disorder. This is a well-known fact. I challenge you to do research. Another way that people with eating disorders hide their disorder is extreme training like for a marathon. That way, it’s always “oh sorry I can’t, I’m training for the marathon” rather than “I can’t enjoy foods like that because I am afraid of them and have to feel in control.” Of course some people do have real allergies or really are lactose intolerant, etc. But a lot of people use that kind of thing as an excuse to hide the disorder. This includes veganism. I’m not saying all vegans have eating disorders; I am saying that many people with eating disorders use a vegan diet (or gluten free, etc.) as a shield.

This sounds like an exhausting way to go through life -- assuming people are actually hiding a disorder. Oh brother.

DP. But it’s a fact. There’s research. I actually feel bad for these people. Society makes it hard to admit the disorder and therefore get treatment.

I’m the PP who posted the information that dietary restrictions, self-diagnosed “allergies” and extreme training (marathons, triathlons) are medically proven “masks” for disordered eating. I hope it goes without saying that I, too, feel very bad for those who suffer from eating disorders, and I was only trying to provide information and context. Very strict diets like veganism, constant big-event training and self-diagnosed food restrictions are red flags, and I wish more people would know that these are actually things to look out for. Again, of course people can be healthy and choose to be vegan or choose to train for athletic events, etc. I’m just saying that these can be clues, so be on the lookout if you suspect that someone may be suffering and may need help.

Eating a vegan diet is a clue that someone wants to eat a vegan diet? How does that mean they are suffering or need help?

Bill Clinton went on a vegan diet years and years ago after he had a heart attack. He hasn't had one since. He used to eat famously unhealthy food, like burgers and fries, regularly. Which Bill Clinton was suffering and needed help? The former one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I think what you’ve outlined is just fine. You could add a vegan “ice cream” like tofuti to the apple pie filling if you want to dress it up. For the dishes you’re altering, vegan butter works well and tastes pretty good.

What brand of vegan butter can you recommend?

Miyokos is a tasty vegan butter. Their regular one is cashew based but they also make an oat milk one. Be sure to read the label jic. Earth Balance is another solid option. Both are usually available at regular grocery stores and definitely at Whole Foods, sometimes Trader Joe’s, Target.

Thank you.

No problem. We also use the So Delicious plain UNSWEETENED coconut yogurt (the green label) as a substitute when making things like mashed potatoes. It is a little creamier than plant-based milks and it gives it a nice flavor. It’s good for sauces and curries and I sub it for some of the wet ingredients in baking.

We have dairy, nut, and gluten allergies in our home - though not all same person, so cooking is creative. I was vegetarian when younger and found it helped me with cooking flexibility. You orient from a different place and learn how to substitute with ease.

Oh. Also while it’s not exactly Boursin there is a follow your heart version of Boursin you can get it Wegmans that is amazing. Like a herbed cream cheese. If you got that and some crackers or sliced veggies it would be such a treat. A good pre-meal nosh for vegan guests.

[Anonymous]

And BTW people who are gf and df do not CHOOSE to follow restrictive diets. They get severe diarrhea if they eat gluten or dairy. How can anyone not know this in 2022?

Ahh, I see that you have never visited the DCUM Diet & Exercise forum. Many people are GF and DF because they are afraid to eat a carbohydrate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just found out that my cousin and her new husband are vegan. They live far away, so they can’t bring anything for Thanksgiving. I’m hosting 16 total, and I’d say the other 14 guests (this count includes my family) are very traditional eaters. The only other factor is nut allergies, but that’s my kids so I naturally work that into the menu. I think the other guests are pretty traditional and expect the usual fare. I’m happy to do some extra work, but I’d love to pinch-hit with vegan store-bought items from Wegmans, if anyone happens to know of anything good.

Appetizers could be:
Veggies/chips with homemade French onion dip and hummus as the vegan option
Maybe shot glasses of vegan vichyssoise?

Dinner of:
Turkey, gravy
Mashed potatoes

Could make vegan versions of:
Mashed potatoes (small side dish that I would keep by and then add butter and cream/milk to the majority of the pot)
Burgundy mushrooms (I usually make with butter but I think I can easily make these vegan)
Dressing (easy enough to use vegetable stock instead of chicken stock, but I might get dinged by the majority for this as I think it wont’ t taste as good)
Cranberry sauce
Roasted vegetables
Maybe some type of roll? Does anyone know of a good vegan bread mix or cornbread mix or some such?

Dessert:
Traditional versions of pumpkin pie, apple pie and pecan pie
I could make apple pie filling for vegans and just have that warm in a crock pot?
Maybe add some kind of vegan brownie? Need help with dessert ideas

Is the above enough food for the vegans? They can make a plate of that, right?

make pumpkin pie vegan with canned coconut cream https://www.noracooks.com/vegan-pumpkin-pie/
WF actually has some awesome vegan desserts and any vegan bakery will have vegan treats around the holidays. If you are in VA/MD, Elizabeths counter in Alexandria may have thanksgiving related items and their donuts are AWESSSSSSOOOMMEEE

Vegan mashed potatoes are easy- use veggie stock and vegan butter. miyokos is great. You can make cornbread vegan. Bakeries sell vegan rolls.

-non vegan whose son was DF for 4 years, which meant basically vegan bakeries were our go-tos

No, OP is doing enough cooking and baking and does not need to make an entire vegan pumpkin pie for two people. She’s already making apple, so making more of the filling and omitting butter and setting it aside in a crock pot is only a little bit of extra work. If the vegans are concerned they can order a vegan dessert and ship it to OP’s house; living far away is no excuse not to contribute to a meal, especially when you are the difficult one.

The bully steps in and encourages the OP to not be nice.

OP is already doing lots of nice things: already making extra pie filling for dessert, already making mashed potatoes and putting aside, already modifying her mushroom and stuffing recipes, already making hummus in addition to another dip, asking here for bread or roll recommendations, etc.

Can you honestly read through the actual original post again and say with a straight face that OP should do MORE? Sounds like entitled guests like you are the bullies: do more, hostess, make more, hostess, buy more, hostess!