Pelosi and Taiwan

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are republicans so upset that Pelosi stood up to China?

I have a question for you.
Who is she representing?

There’s been a long tradition of US delegations visiting Taipei. Who was Lindsey Graham representing last April?

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/05/30/politics/us-congressional-delegation-visit-taiwan/index.html

The question remains the same.
Who are they representing?
Conducting Foreign Policy for USA shouldn’t be their business.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wish it would have been a surprise visit in a way, but good on Pelosi. She's still too old and needs to pass the mantle, but she is savvy as hE#L.

China should be reminded that the US is no longer occupied with wars in Afghanistan and Iraq and that we can play a long game too.

Except we can’t play the long game, at all. We’re good at sound bites and political theater but we’re a paper tiger compared to China.

The US military would disagree. As would our allies in Australia and Eastern Asia.

NP. The same US military that is 0 for 5 (6?) over the last twenty years?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wish it would have been a surprise visit in a way, but good on Pelosi. She's still too old and needs to pass the mantle, but she is savvy as hE#L.

China should be reminded that the US is no longer occupied with wars in Afghanistan and Iraq and that we can play a long game too.

Except we can’t play the long game, at all. We’re good at sound bites and political theater but we’re a paper tiger compared to China.

Really? When has China proven its mettle? Who are their savvy proven military leaders? China hasn't had any practical military experience in 40+ years.

Well, they can make things and we don’t.
Can we fight China without Chinese import?
If Covid-19 was a sign we can’t make essential items here without Chinese imports.

[Anonymous]

I hate Pelosi but I have no problem with her demonstrating our support for Taiwan and our allies in the Pacific.

After we deal with Covid, our next priority as a country should be to completely wean ourselves off China and encourage the rest of the world to do the same.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are republicans so upset that Pelosi stood up to China?

I'm a republican and am very pleased she went. I was worried after the threats from China she would back down. Glad she didn't

Isn’t conducting international relations the domain of the presidency?

Yes. And the Secretary of State. The US public didn't elect pelosi to represent the country in international affairs.

May be our constitution is wrong if it guides the the Speaker is 3rd in succession for presidency and expect her to not represent the country until that kind of crisis happen!

She needs to stay in her job description lane .

So you would forbid all CODELS? Do you have any idea how many there are? Tons every single congressional break. Many with MILAIR. Spouses often accompany to “nicer” destinations. Both parties are big on traveling.

Unless they have permission from the State Department to represent USA they should be considered private citizens conducting private matter.

That’s not how the U.S. government works. Congress can and should visit countries in which we have interests and alliances. Every President says he will stand up to China and every one backs down. Pelosi visiting Taiwan is not provocative or controversial except to the PRC and the people who suck up to the PRC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are republicans so upset that Pelosi stood up to China?

I have a question for you.
Who is she representing?

There’s been a long tradition of US delegations visiting Taipei. Who was Lindsey Graham representing last April?

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/05/30/politics/us-congressional-delegation-visit-taiwan/index.html

The question remains the same.
Who are they representing?
Conducting Foreign Policy for USA shouldn’t be their business.

They aren’t conducting foreign policy. That’s dopey.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are republicans so upset that Pelosi stood up to China?

I'm a republican and am very pleased she went. I was worried after the threats from China she would back down. Glad she didn't

Isn’t conducting international relations the domain of the presidency?

Yes. And the Secretary of State. The US public didn't elect pelosi to represent the country in international affairs.

May be our constitution is wrong if it guides the the Speaker is 3rd in succession for presidency and expect her to not represent the country until that kind of crisis happen!

She needs to stay in her job description lane .

So you would forbid all CODELS? Do you have any idea how many there are? Tons every single congressional break. Many with MILAIR. Spouses often accompany to “nicer” destinations. Both parties are big on traveling.

Unless they have permission from the State Department to represent USA they should be considered private citizens conducting private matter.

That’s not how the U.S. government works. Congress can and should visit countries in which we have interests and alliances. Every President says he will stand up to China and every one backs down. Pelosi visiting Taiwan is not provocative or controversial except to the PRC and the people who suck up to the PRC.

How do you stand up to China after becoming practically dependent on Chinese import ?
Probably this is all about expanding our weapon sales to Taiwan .

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are republicans so upset that Pelosi stood up to China?

I have a question for you.
Who is she representing?

There’s been a long tradition of US delegations visiting Taipei. Who was Lindsey Graham representing last April?

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/05/30/politics/us-congressional-delegation-visit-taiwan/index.html

The question remains the same.
Who are they representing?
Conducting Foreign Policy for USA shouldn’t be their business.

They aren’t conducting foreign policy. That’s dopey.

If it looks like a duck…

[Anonymous]

Annnnd look at that. Pelosi's idiocy and hubris have set off a s storm. Taiwan paying the price because of.dumb Pelosi trying to play POTUS.

[Anonymous]

Pelosi setting off a modern day Bay of Pigs powder keg. What a moron.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Annnnd look at that. Pelosi's idiocy and hubris have set off a s storm. Taiwan paying the price because of.dumb Pelosi trying to play POTUS.

No way did Pelosi do this alone. Shes not AOC. This had to have been coordinated. Pelosi is on the team.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why are republicans so upset that Pelosi stood up to China?

I have a question for you.
Who is she representing?

There’s been a long tradition of US delegations visiting Taipei. Who was Lindsey Graham representing last April?

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/05/30/politics/us-congressional-delegation-visit-taiwan/index.html

The question remains the same.
Who are they representing?
Conducting Foreign Policy for USA shouldn’t be their business.

They aren’t conducting foreign policy. That’s dopey.

Yeah they are. This effectively ends strategic ambiguity. And they are stating foreign policy positions.

[Anonymous]

Taiwanese here.
It's pretty obvious she didn't have to quarantine like everybody else who enters Taiwan. Pulling on her white political privilege. This alone pisses me off.
As a rep of CA, I wonder how this will go down with the substantial Chinese population there.

To everybody who wants to talk about Taiwan independence - if Taiwan declares independence it has lost its claim on being the true China. I don't know if any of you can remember but Taiwan was considered Republic of China after the Japanese lost WWII. It was recognized as the true China until Nixon reversed course. Since then it has been in a strange limbo land. To divorce itself from being China with its 5K years of history would make it just another island with a bunch of Chinese expats like Malaysia, Singapore, Vietnam.... former vassal states.

There is a LOT of cross straits relationships - marriages, businesses, tourism (China's a huge clientele base), entertainment. A fair number of Taiwanese have been decamping for China recently because of its sluggish economy and Mainland businesses willing to pay 3-4X more for the talent. One of my TSMC cousins is just this economic migrant to China. Another TSMC head honcho cousin works heavily with Japan. I also have an IL aunt who is from the Mainland. There are loads of Taiwanese businesses with factories in China (as well as 2nd/3rd wives with Mainland progeny there too - one of my mother's Taiwanese friends is in just this Chinese soap opera situation). Any rising entertainment star knows it is far more lucrative to be in China than Taiwan. Your average Taiwanese is focused on business and stability, not political ideology.
If the US hadn't been subsidizing Taiwan's defenses for so long and so heavily, they would have told Pelosi to get lost already. But the US has bought Taiwan's accommodation. Pelosi is the old moneybags aunt you don't really want around but you put up with for a short while.

The people who are hung up about the political stalemate are the KMT soldiers who lost to Mao and decamped to Taiwan. They have been and their children ones in the political arena today. Kind of like the Cubans in Miami who shake their fists about Castro. My father was a former KMT and I remember having to recite lessons about Sun Yat Sen and Chiang Kai Shek. The politicos in Taiwan will not give up its claim to being the true China anytime soon. If it does, it is tantamount to admitting defeat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Taiwanese here.
It's pretty obvious she didn't have to quarantine like everybody else who enters Taiwan. Pulling on her white political privilege. This alone pisses me off.
As a rep of CA, I wonder how this will go down with the substantial Chinese population there.

To everybody who wants to talk about Taiwan independence - if Taiwan declares independence it has lost its claim on being the true China. I don't know if any of you can remember but Taiwan was considered Republic of China after the Japanese lost WWII. It was recognized as the true China until Nixon reversed course. Since then it has been in a strange limbo land. To divorce itself from being China with its 5K years of history would make it just another island with a bunch of Chinese expats like Malaysia, Singapore, Vietnam.... former vassal states.

There is a LOT of cross straits relationships - marriages, businesses, tourism (China's a huge clientele base), entertainment. A fair number of Taiwanese have been decamping for China recently because of its sluggish economy and Mainland businesses willing to pay 3-4X more for the talent. One of my TSMC cousins is just this economic migrant to China. Another TSMC head honcho cousin works heavily with Japan. I also have an IL aunt who is from the Mainland. There are loads of Taiwanese businesses with factories in China (as well as 2nd/3rd wives with Mainland progeny there too - one of my mother's Taiwanese friends is in just this Chinese soap opera situation). Any rising entertainment star knows it is far more lucrative to be in China than Taiwan. Your average Taiwanese is focused on business and stability, not political ideology.
If the US hadn't been subsidizing Taiwan's defenses for so long and so heavily, they would have told Pelosi to get lost already. But the US has bought Taiwan's accommodation. Pelosi is the old moneybags aunt you don't really want around but you put up with for a short while.

The people who are hung up about the political stalemate are the KMT soldiers who lost to Mao and decamped to Taiwan. They have been and their children ones in the political arena today. Kind of like the Cubans in Miami who shake their fists about Castro. My father was a former KMT and I remember having to recite lessons about Sun Yat Sen and Chiang Kai Shek. The politicos in Taiwan will not give up its claim to being the true China anytime soon. If it does, it is tantamount to admitting defeat.

Follow up - what does it mean to "support Taiwan"? I wonder how this is translated to the Chinese.

Does it mean to recognize it as the true China which negates the 1979 recognition of the Mainland is China?
Or just give it armaments?
The question nobody is asking is what Taiwan really wants.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Taiwanese here.
It's pretty obvious she didn't have to quarantine like everybody else who enters Taiwan. Pulling on her white political privilege. This alone pisses me off.
As a rep of CA, I wonder how this will go down with the substantial Chinese population there.

To everybody who wants to talk about Taiwan independence - if Taiwan declares independence it has lost its claim on being the true China. I don't know if any of you can remember but Taiwan was considered Republic of China after the Japanese lost WWII. It was recognized as the true China until Nixon reversed course. Since then it has been in a strange limbo land. To divorce itself from being China with its 5K years of history would make it just another island with a bunch of Chinese expats like Malaysia, Singapore, Vietnam.... former vassal states.

There is a LOT of cross straits relationships - marriages, businesses, tourism (China's a huge clientele base), entertainment. A fair number of Taiwanese have been decamping for China recently because of its sluggish economy and Mainland businesses willing to pay 3-4X more for the talent. One of my TSMC cousins is just this economic migrant to China. Another TSMC head honcho cousin works heavily with Japan. I also have an IL aunt who is from the Mainland. There are loads of Taiwanese businesses with factories in China (as well as 2nd/3rd wives with Mainland progeny there too - one of my mother's Taiwanese friends is in just this Chinese soap opera situation). Any rising entertainment star knows it is far more lucrative to be in China than Taiwan. Your average Taiwanese is focused on business and stability, not political ideology.
If the US hadn't been subsidizing Taiwan's defenses for so long and so heavily, they would have told Pelosi to get lost already. But the US has bought Taiwan's accommodation. Pelosi is the old moneybags aunt you don't really want around but you put up with for a short while.

The people who are hung up about the political stalemate are the KMT soldiers who lost to Mao and decamped to Taiwan. They have been and their children ones in the political arena today. Kind of like the Cubans in Miami who shake their fists about Castro. My father was a former KMT and I remember having to recite lessons about Sun Yat Sen and Chiang Kai Shek. The politicos in Taiwan will not give up its claim to being the true China anytime soon. If it does, it is tantamount to admitting defeat.

Follow up - what does it mean to "support Taiwan"? I wonder how this is translated to the Chinese.

Does it mean to recognize it as the true China which negates the 1979 recognition of the Mainland is China?
Or just give it armaments?
The question nobody is asking is what Taiwan really wants.

One thing Taiwan doesn't want is to suffer the betrayal and fate of Hong Kong as it got folded into the PRC.