UVA with Jefferson Scholarship vs Harvard

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Never heard of the Jefferson scholarship, but I have certainly heard of Harvard. As has everyone all around the world.

I'd take Harvard unless it would be impossible financially.

+1

You would have to put Jefferson Scholarship on your resume for the rest of your life, and always preface your alma mater with explanation of Jefferson Scholarship.

Harvard is very generous with FA. See if you can get some aid.

People do put Jefferson scholarship on their resume for the rest of their lives, it is that prestigious.

Prestigious or not, you don't have a choice but to put it on the resume and explain it in order to match the Harvard name. Vast majority of lay people have no idea what a Jefferson scholarship is.

It’s one of the most prestigious scholarships in the US. Google it

It may be most of the most prestigious scholarships in the US considering the top universities don't provide any merit scholarships to begin with.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Never heard of the Jefferson scholarship, but I have certainly heard of Harvard. As has everyone all around the world.

I'd take Harvard unless it would be impossible financially.

+1

You would have to put Jefferson Scholarship on your resume for the rest of your life, and always preface your alma mater with explanation of Jefferson Scholarship.

Harvard is very generous with FA. See if you can get some aid.

People do put Jefferson scholarship on their resume for the rest of their lives, it is that prestigious.

Prestigious or not, you don't have a choice but to put it on the resume and explain it in order to match the Harvard name. Vast majority of lay people have no idea what a Jefferson scholarship is.

Employers care very little about where there applicants went to college.....

https://chronicle-assets.s3.amazonaws.com/5/items/biz/pdf/Employers%20Survey.pdf

see page 27

Flat out wrong. The average employer may not, the elite, highest paying firms do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How much is the different? 300k?

If you have it saved up for college, yes Harvard is worth the difference given your kid is a go-getter and takes advantage of the opportunities presented by Harvard.

If its loans, how much loan? $100k may be reasonable if your child is majoring in CS, but not reasonable at all if wanting to go to graduate school or majoring in the humanities with no interest in consulting or finance.

And by opportunities presented at Harvard, I don't mean networking with future politicians or titans of industry. Those doors are generally entirely closed to anyone other than the wealthy and already well-connected. I'm talking about practical benefits like recruitment from elite finance/consulting/tech firms. Tech is more meritocratic but Harvard brand still holds quite a sway, especially in algorithmic trading firms.

A student at Harvard with a 3.0 in History with no impressive extracurriculars would get invited for elite consulting/finance firms while the same student at UVA would need a 3.8+ GPA from McIntire to even get a preliminary interview. Many elite firms don't even recruit at UVA.

This is so, so true. All the finance guys I know from Harvard studied Government, History, and even Art History. One was busted cheating on a test and Harvard put him on probation for a year and made him graduate one year late. All of them went on to very well-paid careers in finance, no need to take a break for an MBA. They made partner at Goldman, became lead traders, went into buy-side, or private equity. They are now starting to retire in their mid-40s.

It's a f#cking racket.

It's a racket because high finance and consulting is a racket. What these firms do is not easily differentiable (or, they don't do anything of substance), but they need to convince clients to invest their money with them or sell clients services. Clients are more at ease seeing those from top undergrads working on their cases and handling their investments.

Imagine a corporation is looking for consulting firms to do some study on some industry subject. The work itself is trivial, but it's much easier to convince the company to hire McKinsey and charge a high billing rate when the McKinsey team handling the case is entirely composed of Ivy grads. Throw in students from Case Western, Boston College, Northeastern and the case to go with McKinsey just isn't quite as strong. The latter group very well could do as good of a job as the Ivy grads, but clients are swayed by degrees.

This is also true for the elite law firms. Telling clients that your firm has the best attorneys to handle a case with millions on the line because your firm only hires from Yale and Harvard is a great pitch. Now throw UVA, UNC, UT-Austin, Boston University etc. into the mix and the pitch isn't as great.

Same for tech startups. There's not much to go by when raising money and ergo VCs will go with educational background of the founders. MIT, Stanford are obviously the gold standard but a school Harvard is always a safe bet for investors.

UVA is the #8 law school, Harvard #4. Clients are credentialist, too. They know the rankings.

Legal clients who are credentialist are just as wrong when choosing an attorney as they are when choosing colleges for their kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Different point of view to consider....

Map out a potential 4 yr plan for two programs.

An Economics degree at Harvard will be a different experience than a degree from a Business school program (at any university). Business schools will require pre-professional courses in Accounting, Finance, Operations, Bus Law, Marketing etc and that will include case studies and group project work. A liberal arts economics degree will focus more on topics, theories, applications and can be supplemented with quantitative analyses in econometrics etc. are will likely have more room (freed by not taking business core) for studying other liberal arts, math, or science courses.

Both are useful degrees (even if the intended career is business) but functionally they present themselves differently in the "process" of getting to the final degree.

If the intended career is business, is it better to just go to UVA that actually has a business program? For example, if Wall Street isn't the goal, will an economics degree be as useful as a business degree?

The economics degree may or may not be as useful, but the Harvard name on the resume is definitely going to be more useful in getting interviews and jobs at high-paying companies, whether at Wall Street or outside.

Students who were admissible to Harvard but turned down due to lack of space will have the same opportunities in life as those who were admitted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Never heard of the Jefferson scholarship, but I have certainly heard of Harvard. As has everyone all around the world.

I'd take Harvard unless it would be impossible financially.

+1

You would have to put Jefferson Scholarship on your resume for the rest of your life, and always preface your alma mater with explanation of Jefferson Scholarship.

Harvard is very generous with FA. See if you can get some aid.

People do put Jefferson scholarship on their resume for the rest of their lives, it is that prestigious.

Prestigious or not, you don't have a choice but to put it on the resume and explain it in order to match the Harvard name. Vast majority of lay people have no idea what a Jefferson scholarship is.

Employers care very little about where there applicants went to college.....

https://chronicle-assets.s3.amazonaws.com/5/items/biz/pdf/Employers%20Survey.pdf

see page 27

Flat out wrong. The average employer may not, the elite, [b]highest paying firms do.

So many DCUMers’ and thei spawn’s sole motivation is a high HHI. It’s amazing to me how Potomac Fever works. Few come here to make a difference, most come to make a difference in their bottom line. Sad. Oh well

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UVA Business is not guranteed

For a Jefferson Scholar it is all but guaranteed. Being a Jefferson Scholar is a very big deal at UVA

McIntire is not going to accept an applicant with C's in their transcript and a 3.0 because of their high school performance, which is what the Jefferson Scholar is based on.

um show me a Jefferson Scholar with Cs on their transcript or a 3.0...they aren't just some scrub kids who party and don't study. They are literally the cream of the crop UVA student. Pretty sure something very dramatic will have to happen for them to suddenly not be able to perform in college. And yes, if that happens, they likely won't get into McIntire. It would be a tremendous fall from grace for a Jefferson Scholar to fall flat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Never heard of the Jefferson scholarship, but I have certainly heard of Harvard. As has everyone all around the world.

I'd take Harvard unless it would be impossible financially.

It’s a full ride to UVa

Full ride plus a large stipend plus plus funding for unpaid internships plus funded study abroad over your junior year summer


https://www.jeffersonscholars.org/scholarship

+1. It's a very big deal. And a big deal on campus. Everyone knows who are the Jefferson Scholars. My DS competed for it but was passed over after the regional interviews.

I’m trying to imagine this.

Why is that difficult? There are only 4,000 in a class at UVA. The Jefferson Scholars regularly meet off campus at their center and do activities together.

Only 4K

Not the PP but it’s not a huge school. I think there are what 20 Jefferson scholars?

I agree. It’s a big deal. And everyone knows which students are the Jefferson Scholars.

I seriously doubt anyone knows who is a Jefferson Scholar. And I doubt having 99% of the school looking at you with envy is of much help if they knew, anyhow.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

+1 The question is not whether Harvard is "better" than UVa. The question is whether your kid wants to be a regular student student at Harvard or one of the top 20 in the class at UVA. Jefferson Scholarship is more than just a free college education. For example, at UVA, Jefferson Scholars hold the prestige positions such as the student representative to the Board of Visitors and the best research positions. From a job perspective, Jefferson Scholars attend private events with UVa's most successful alumni. Also, Jefferson Scholars are all Echols Scholars and have no area/major requirements and have priority in scheduling classes, which allows students get into classes with desired professors and get better recommendations for graduate schools.

Or the question is whether your kid wants to be surrounded by 6,000 students more intelligent than Jefferson Scholars, with far more opportunities presented than to Jefferson Scholars, or bump it with 20,000 other, most from some underdeveloped rural county in Virginia.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How much is the different? 300k?

If you have it saved up for college, yes Harvard is worth the difference given your kid is a go-getter and takes advantage of the opportunities presented by Harvard.

If its loans, how much loan? $100k may be reasonable if your child is majoring in CS, but not reasonable at all if wanting to go to graduate school or majoring in the humanities with no interest in consulting or finance.

And by opportunities presented at Harvard, I don't mean networking with future politicians or titans of industry. Those doors are generally entirely closed to anyone other than the wealthy and already well-connected. I'm talking about practical benefits like recruitment from elite finance/consulting/tech firms. Tech is more meritocratic but Harvard brand still holds quite a sway, especially in algorithmic trading firms.

A student at Harvard with a 3.0 in History with no impressive extracurriculars would get invited for elite consulting/finance firms while the same student at UVA would need a 3.8+ GPA from McIntire to even get a preliminary interview. Many elite firms don't even recruit at UVA.

This is so, so true. All the finance guys I know from Harvard studied Government, History, and even Art History. One was busted cheating on a test and Harvard put him on probation for a year and made him graduate one year late. All of them went on to very well-paid careers in finance, no need to take a break for an MBA. They made partner at Goldman, became lead traders, went into buy-side, or private equity. They are now starting to retire in their mid-40s.

It's a f#cking racket.

The saying that the college does not matter or that it only matters for the first job is such a lie.

Yeah, it does not matter if you want an average life with a 9-5 making $70k a year and a mountain of mortgage, bills and future college tuition to worry about.

If you want to be wealthy, work at elite firms, work in upper management or comfortably retire in your early 40s or even 30s, certain colleges make those doors wide open for you. With most colleges, you have a better chance of winning the lottery than achieving such outcomes.

C'mon, man. You can't just make stuff up and expect people to believe you.

Here's where the CEOs of 100 recognizable US companies went to college.....

https://lesshighschoolstress.com/business/

Here's the upper management at top biotech firms.....

https://lesshighschoolstress.com/biotech-pharma/

And top tech firms.....

https://lesshighschoolstress.com/lists/tech/

This doesn’t seem to say what you think is says. For tech companies,

“Over all 10 companies, 23% of those who did complete their undergraduate studies in the US attended MC25 colleges, which is a bit lower than the percentage in most of the fields listed.”

I would say that having nearly a quarter of your management coming from 25 colleges is impressive from a numbers standpoint. It’s possible to get there from a non t25 school but it is far more helpful to have gone to a t25 school. And tech is the field where it is least helpful.

[Anonymous]

OP - did your child apply with the understanding that your family could afford to be full pay at Harvard? That's the only relevant question. DC decides.

Lol that’s not how life or money works

It works this way at our house ~ signed, parent of 2 who have graduated college

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We prefer to hire state college grads over Ivy. We've learned they are simply better on the job. If presented with a resume from UVA and a resume from Harvard and everything else was the same we would hire the UVA grad.

I always giggle at this. You don’t mean state schools, you mean like 3 state schools out of hundreds.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How much is the different? 300k?

If you have it saved up for college, yes Harvard is worth the difference given your kid is a go-getter and takes advantage of the opportunities presented by Harvard.

If its loans, how much loan? $100k may be reasonable if your child is majoring in CS, but not reasonable at all if wanting to go to graduate school or majoring in the humanities with no interest in consulting or finance.

And by opportunities presented at Harvard, I don't mean networking with future politicians or titans of industry. Those doors are generally entirely closed to anyone other than the wealthy and already well-connected. I'm talking about practical benefits like recruitment from elite finance/consulting/tech firms. Tech is more meritocratic but Harvard brand still holds quite a sway, especially in algorithmic trading firms.

A student at Harvard with a 3.0 in History with no impressive extracurriculars would get invited for elite consulting/finance firms while the same student at UVA would need a 3.8+ GPA from McIntire to even get a preliminary interview. Many elite firms don't even recruit at UVA.

This is so, so true. All the finance guys I know from Harvard studied Government, History, and even Art History. One was busted cheating on a test and Harvard put him on probation for a year and made him graduate one year late. All of them went on to very well-paid careers in finance, no need to take a break for an MBA. They made partner at Goldman, became lead traders, went into buy-side, or private equity. They are now starting to retire in their mid-40s.

It's a f#cking racket.

The saying that the college does not matter or that it only matters for the first job is such a lie.

Yeah, it does not matter if you want an average life with a 9-5 making $70k a year and a mountain of mortgage, bills and future college tuition to worry about.

If you want to be wealthy, work at elite firms, work in upper management or comfortably retire in your early 40s or even 30s, certain colleges make those doors wide open for you. With most colleges, you have a better chance of winning the lottery than achieving such outcomes.

C'mon, man. You can't just make stuff up and expect people to believe you.

Here's where the CEOs of 100 recognizable US companies went to college.....

https://lesshighschoolstress.com/business/

Here's the upper management at top biotech firms.....

https://lesshighschoolstress.com/biotech-pharma/

And top tech firms.....

https://lesshighschoolstress.com/lists/tech/

This doesn’t seem to say what you think is says. For tech companies,

“Over all 10 companies, 23% of those who did complete their undergraduate studies in the US attended MC25 colleges, which is a bit lower than the percentage in most of the fields listed.”

I would say that having nearly a quarter of your management coming from 25 colleges is impressive from a numbers standpoint. It’s possible to get there from a non t25 school but it is far more helpful to have gone to a t25 school. And tech is the field where it is least helpful.

But it's not because they went to the 't25' school' that they got where they are. It's because of who they are as a person. Why are successful people so willing to ascribe their success to something other than their own awesomeness, which can be nurtured at hundreds of schools rather than just the few so many seem to think are critical to future success? The top students at lower-ranked colleges, those who are just as capable as the few who were admitted to the 't25', achieve just as highly despite the 'handicap' you seem to think they have.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How much is the different? 300k?

If you have it saved up for college, yes Harvard is worth the difference given your kid is a go-getter and takes advantage of the opportunities presented by Harvard.

If its loans, how much loan? $100k may be reasonable if your child is majoring in CS, but not reasonable at all if wanting to go to graduate school or majoring in the humanities with no interest in consulting or finance.

And by opportunities presented at Harvard, I don't mean networking with future politicians or titans of industry. Those doors are generally entirely closed to anyone other than the wealthy and already well-connected. I'm talking about practical benefits like recruitment from elite finance/consulting/tech firms. Tech is more meritocratic but Harvard brand still holds quite a sway, especially in algorithmic trading firms.

A student at Harvard with a 3.0 in History with no impressive extracurriculars would get invited for elite consulting/finance firms while the same student at UVA would need a 3.8+ GPA from McIntire to even get a preliminary interview. Many elite firms don't even recruit at UVA.

This is so, so true. All the finance guys I know from Harvard studied Government, History, and even Art History. One was busted cheating on a test and Harvard put him on probation for a year and made him graduate one year late. All of them went on to very well-paid careers in finance, no need to take a break for an MBA. They made partner at Goldman, became lead traders, went into buy-side, or private equity. They are now starting to retire in their mid-40s.

It's a f#cking racket.

The saying that the college does not matter or that it only matters for the first job is such a lie.

Yeah, it does not matter if you want an average life with a 9-5 making $70k a year and a mountain of mortgage, bills and future college tuition to worry about.

If you want to be wealthy, work at elite firms, work in upper management or comfortably retire in your early 40s or even 30s, certain colleges make those doors wide open for you. With most colleges, you have a better chance of winning the lottery than achieving such outcomes.

C'mon, man. You can't just make stuff up and expect people to believe you.

Here's where the CEOs of 100 recognizable US companies went to college.....

https://lesshighschoolstress.com/business/

Here's the upper management at top biotech firms.....

https://lesshighschoolstress.com/biotech-pharma/

And top tech firms.....

https://lesshighschoolstress.com/lists/tech/

This doesn’t seem to say what you think is says. For tech companies,

“Over all 10 companies, 23% of those who did complete their undergraduate studies in the US attended MC25 colleges, which is a bit lower than the percentage in most of the fields listed.”

I would say that having nearly a quarter of your management coming from 25 colleges is impressive from a numbers standpoint. It’s possible to get there from a non t25 school but it is far more helpful to have gone to a t25 school. And tech is the field where it is least helpful.

But it's not because they went to the 't25' school' that they got where they are. It's because of who they are as a person. Why are successful people so willing to ascribe their success to something other than their own awesomeness, which can be nurtured at hundreds of schools rather than just the few so many seem to think are critical to future success? The top students at lower-ranked colleges, those who are just as capable as the few who were admitted to the 't25', achieve just as highly despite the 'handicap' you seem to think they have.

I wouldn't have been pushed to succeed if I had gone to my state U (comparable to UVA) instead of my T10 school. It's a whole different level of critical thinking at T10 vs. State U.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How much is the different? 300k?

If you have it saved up for college, yes Harvard is worth the difference given your kid is a go-getter and takes advantage of the opportunities presented by Harvard.

If its loans, how much loan? $100k may be reasonable if your child is majoring in CS, but not reasonable at all if wanting to go to graduate school or majoring in the humanities with no interest in consulting or finance.

And by opportunities presented at Harvard, I don't mean networking with future politicians or titans of industry. Those doors are generally entirely closed to anyone other than the wealthy and already well-connected. I'm talking about practical benefits like recruitment from elite finance/consulting/tech firms. Tech is more meritocratic but Harvard brand still holds quite a sway, especially in algorithmic trading firms.

A student at Harvard with a 3.0 in History with no impressive extracurriculars would get invited for elite consulting/finance firms while the same student at UVA would need a 3.8+ GPA from McIntire to even get a preliminary interview. Many elite firms don't even recruit at UVA.

This is so, so true. All the finance guys I know from Harvard studied Government, History, and even Art History. One was busted cheating on a test and Harvard put him on probation for a year and made him graduate one year late. All of them went on to very well-paid careers in finance, no need to take a break for an MBA. They made partner at Goldman, became lead traders, went into buy-side, or private equity. They are now starting to retire in their mid-40s.

It's a f#cking racket.

The saying that the college does not matter or that it only matters for the first job is such a lie.

Yeah, it does not matter if you want an average life with a 9-5 making $70k a year and a mountain of mortgage, bills and future college tuition to worry about.

If you want to be wealthy, work at elite firms, work in upper management or comfortably retire in your early 40s or even 30s, certain colleges make those doors wide open for you. With most colleges, you have a better chance of winning the lottery than achieving such outcomes.

C'mon, man. You can't just make stuff up and expect people to believe you.

Here's where the CEOs of 100 recognizable US companies went to college.....

https://lesshighschoolstress.com/business/

Here's the upper management at top biotech firms.....

https://lesshighschoolstress.com/biotech-pharma/

And top tech firms.....

https://lesshighschoolstress.com/lists/tech/

This doesn’t seem to say what you think is says. For tech companies,

“Over all 10 companies, 23% of those who did complete their undergraduate studies in the US attended MC25 colleges, which is a bit lower than the percentage in most of the fields listed.”

I would say that having nearly a quarter of your management coming from 25 colleges is impressive from a numbers standpoint. It’s possible to get there from a non t25 school but it is far more helpful to have gone to a t25 school. And tech is the field where it is least helpful.

But it's not because they went to the 't25' school' that they got where they are. It's because of who they are as a person. Why are successful people so willing to ascribe their success to something other than their own awesomeness, which can be nurtured at hundreds of schools rather than just the few so many seem to think are critical to future success? The top students at lower-ranked colleges, those who are just as capable as the few who were admitted to the 't25', achieve just as highly despite the 'handicap' you seem to think they have.

I wouldn't have been pushed to succeed if I had gone to my state U (comparable to UVA) instead of my T10 school. It's a whole different level of critical thinking at T10 vs. State U.

Jefferson Scholars are obviously self-starters.

[Anonymous]

This is in fact a difficult choice. If you have plenty of $, I would lean Harvard. But the Jefferson Scholar credential is is real. If money not a factor, I would let her pick. If it’s a major factor, difficult for family to afford and no Harvard financial aid coming, I would encourage UVA as a Jefferson.