Is it time for private school vouchers in Montgomery County?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many students wouldn't last a month in private school. They actually enforce rules there. They will take your kid's phone out of his hand and keep it. They have mandatory detention after school. My kid skipped a virtual class last month and got a week of after-school detention at his private school. They don't care if your kid already has after-school plans. Student's grades wouldn't be inflated anymore either. No retakes there. Late work gets a 0.

Don't know about that but this whole thread is preposterous. Almost nobody in Moco would vote this nonsense.

What I think is preposterous is the grade inflation and the lack of teaching basic core skills in MCPS. Parents want choices because MCPS is just passing students along who can’t write and do math.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would you take your child out of MCPS if there was a private school voucher program so Montgomery County residents had school choice?

Sure, if you want to ruin any chance of an average family getting their kids a great education.

yeah, giving families MORE choice really ruins that

Again, please provide a list of secular private schools that will accept the voucher for the entire tuition.
Maybe add to that the number of available openings.
Are you really suggesting that if ALL families want private school choices, the options are there?

why would there be a list for something that does not yet exist?

An earlier poster suggested an amount per student that would transfer with the student as a voucher. Even as a ball park guideline, surely those who champion vouchers can compare this amount with the tuition and fees that area secular private schools charge.

Cheapest Catholic school in the county is St Jude’s in Rockville at about $10k. Once you start looking for schools to accommodate dyslexia, ADHD or other issues the tuition is $50k.

[Anonymous]

Also want to note that teachers in private schools get paid MUCH less than public schools. Like $20k less. Benefits also aren’t great. So if you’re shifting populations to be served by lower wages that isn’t great for the economy of the county IMO

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Also want to note that teachers in private schools get paid MUCH less than public schools. Like $20k less. Benefits also aren’t great. So if you’re shifting populations to be served by lower wages that isn’t great for the economy of the county IMO

If more kids with SN go to these privates that don't pay as much, and the teachers are expected to provide those special services, and aides, and what not, the cost will go up.

Most private schools can determine which kid they want, and kick out the kids they don't. They can curate their student body. Do people really think that if only you had a school voucher that you'd be able to get your kid into a private school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Students are not "customers." They are students.

One reason, Kenny, that you have this Federalist internship, is someone took a stab at educating you, patted you on the back, and encouraged your hopes and dreams. I'm not sure how familiar you are with America, but we have a vision here, imperfectly realized, that education is the great equalizer. It's what gives every child in this nation the tools they need for success.

In practice, as with everything, nothing is so simple.

But your facile notions of how markets work, how children are "customers," how teachers are suddenly failing but will magically be enabled by some kind of fairydust private school... Run by Catholics, no less! I mean, I'd be laughing hysterically if it wasn't for you being serious.

I am genuinely sorry you've been misled.

These posters are just outside agitators. There's no way they even live here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would you take your child out of MCPS if there was a private school voucher program so Montgomery County residents had school choice?

Sure, if you want to ruin any chance of an average family getting their kids a great education.

Wait, what? Average kids in MCPS are not getting a 'great education'. Not on your life. Most are barely even getting an 'adequate education'.

Says an anonymous DCUM poster

No. That’s what the recent MCAP scores show. It’s what data on the MCPS website itself shows.

They showed that MCPS was doing far better than any other county in the state which is to their credit but these nutjobs only want to see problems to justify their fantasy of destroying anything that serves the common good like public schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Also want to note that teachers in private schools get paid MUCH less than public schools. Like $20k less. Benefits also aren’t great. So if you’re shifting populations to be served by lower wages that isn’t great for the economy of the county IMO

Privates don’t have the mid year attrition and vacancies like MCPS. They must be doing something right to be fully staffed.

[Anonymous]

The reality is that school choice, whether vouchers or more likely charters, is an inevitability at this point. A matter of when not if. It will be the legacy of Brenda Wolff’s leadership as President of the BOE.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would you take your child out of MCPS if there was a private school voucher program so Montgomery County residents had school choice?

Sure, if you want to ruin any chance of an average family getting their kids a great education.

yeah, giving families MORE choice really ruins that

Again, please provide a list of secular private schools that will accept the voucher for the entire tuition.
Maybe add to that the number of available openings.
Are you really suggesting that if ALL families want private school choices, the options are there?

why would there be a list for something that does not yet exist?

An earlier poster suggested an amount per student that would transfer with the student as a voucher. Even as a ball park guideline, surely those who champion vouchers can compare this amount with the tuition and fees that area secular private schools charge.

Cheapest Catholic school in the county is St Jude’s in Rockville at about $10k. Once you start looking for schools to accommodate dyslexia, ADHD or other issues the tuition is $50k.

Thank you! So the cheapest secular school is likely to be much more than that, and, as you’ve pointed out, schools with special services and smaller classes will be much more. So vouchers will be subsidizing the higher income families at the expense of the rest. I get that that’s the goal. Fortunately voters will get that too.

I wonder if all these voucher happy parents realize that schools don’t have to take their kids. They also don’t have to keep their kids enrolled if they’d rather fill the slot with another student who seems like a better fit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'll be damned if my tax dollars go to private schools that pump out a bunch of Kavanaugh's and Youngkin's like the white supremacist factory that many of them are

Setting aside the politics, Both of the men you quoted are very successful in their life and are doing really well. Who wouldn't want their child to be as successful as these two successful people on planet earth?

Both men are propped-up vessels for whatever mobster is currently cutting them a check. I don't raise my American children to kiss Russian ass.

Are you suggesting that a supreme court judge is paid by a mobster and is in bed with Putin?

Well, someone paid off his credit card debt, didn't they? But yes, isn't this known?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Great way to shift wealth towards the wealthy while reducing effectiveness for the rest by decimating economies of scale. It's a win-win for the self-centered, with the added bonuses of 1) being able to note the resulting degradation of public education as a support for the "need" to continue voucher programs and 2) being able to subsidize single-view religious teaching.

But, hey, there's always one or two edge cases from the rest to whom they can point as benefitting. "See, in America, anyone can get ahead. Let the invisible hand of the market do its thing!"

What a crock...

Ha ha! What are the "economies of scale" that provide benefits to MCPS consumers? The top notch curriculum generated by their Central Office? School lunches? Of, never mind, subsidized by the Feds. HR? Talk to the applicants who don't hear back for months. Etc. Your whole logic is disjointed. If public schools are left with fewer high needs students perhaps they can specialize.

I think it would be the opposite it would be most likely that the highest needs students will be the ones who don't get school choice because only a few select schools cater to students with IEPs and there aren't a lot of private schools with esol programs

Students with disabilities are a very diverse population of students with various special needs. Very few students would need services that would be the equivalent to a 100% pull out from a general education environment. Also, some private school students still qualify for MCPS special education services.

I was frustrated with the treatment and lack of support for one child that I transferred him out of MCPS to a non-parochial private school that had about 12 students per class and a disability support counselor. My child thrived because the teachers had time to give him the attention he needed. Much of what would have been considered special education services to learn organizational, time management, and study skills was woven into the universal design of their curriculum. My son’s school also offered a supervised study hall period in the library so the disability support counselor would have periodic checks which help with the transition to the school. The school took the educational data for my child, the MCPS plan, had one meeting with my child and myself, and fully implemented our agreed to plan. A truly positive and rewarding experience.

I would say, before we chose the private we selected, we looked at other schools. Not all privates had the ability to meet my son’s needs and schools like Lab and McLean were not the least restrictive environment for my child. Privates are not one size fits all institutions, however when there’s a good fit, the environment is an appropriate remedy when MCPS doesn’t have the resources to implement a child’s IEP.

Even if they don’t need pull out support, they still require something more than the status quo. Whether that is additional time on test, smaller classes, or different curriculum, all of which comes at a cost. Lets take smaller classes for instance. Many kids, special ed or neuro typical could benefit from smaller classes. But that requires more space, more teachers, etc etc. So yes a smaller private can offer this, but its not necessarily less expensive or less resource intensive.

Much of Special Education would benefit all students. That’s why a universal design of implementing a plan for a disabled child is a best practice in education. Any general education teacher will say class size is key as far as how well they can meet the needs of all students.

As is, MCPS is at a low point in meeting the needs of students with disabilities. Complaints and law suits are on the rise and MCPS is wasting funds for noncompliance. How do they dig themselves out of the mess left over from ignoring students with disabilities for the past two years?

A voucher system would provide a mechanism to allow students who MCPS doesn’t meet their needs to go elsewhere. This could be aimed at disabled students who have needs for more attention and support, but it could also be exceptional students who need more enrichment but didn’t get chosen in the magnet school lottery process.

If enrollment declines in MCPS schools, it would lower the staffing and infrastructure needs of the entire school system. Less size, less bureaucracy, and focus for what MCPS does best - the middle 50% of students.

You know it's not well advertised by mcps but there are ways to get mcps to pay the private school tuition of a student who is not being well served in public education. I have some friends who took that route and their daughter is in private school that services students with IEPs. However this took a lot of time and advocacy and documentation

The only way to get private special education placement at public expense is to hire an attorney (at around $500 per hour) and take MCPS to Due Process. A huge gamble for parents, most do not have the $50,000 to $75,000 for the risk. MCPS legal fees do not get paid out of the MCPS budget. They are paid out of the Montgomery County Government Budget so the sky is the limit as they fight a prolonged legal battle against a disabled child.

Many families of students with disabilities, especially after the hell of the last two years, want more than endless meetings that do nothing for their child because MCPS never fully implements an IEP. For some students, smaller classes are better. At the end of the day, as a parent I feel my child has been lied to and cheated by a school system that was quick to say his needs could not be met in an online setting, not give him support and services to get caught up, then was real quick in January to pull the plug again because staffing was needed to babysit not provide the services my child needed. MCPS treats students with disabilities as undesirable afterthoughts. I would be happy to take a pittance of my tax dollars to take my child to an environment that has the resources and who wants to teach him.

I'm not sure which private school. You think had the staff to manage your little snowflake in January, during the height of the covid surge, when many private schools were also virtual... But you're aware there's no law mandating private schools follow any IEPs at all?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Students are not "customers." They are students.

One reason, Kenny, that you have this Federalist internship, is someone took a stab at educating you, patted you on the back, and encouraged your hopes and dreams. I'm not sure how familiar you are with America, but we have a vision here, imperfectly realized, that education is the great equalizer. It's what gives every child in this nation the tools they need for success.

In practice, as with everything, nothing is so simple.

But your facile notions of how markets work, how children are "customers," how teachers are suddenly failing but will magically be enabled by some kind of fairydust private school... Run by Catholics, no less! I mean, I'd be laughing hysterically if it wasn't for you being serious.

I am genuinely sorry you've been misled.

These posters are just outside agitators. There's no way they even live here.

Ita. They may not be interns from the Federalist, but we all know Daily Caller used to troll these boards regularly pre-Trump and their elevation to the status of "news," at which point they began trolling the country.

There is no reason to assume everyone posting is doing so because of personal opinion, although that should be the intent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Great way to shift wealth towards the wealthy while reducing effectiveness for the rest by decimating economies of scale. It's a win-win for the self-centered, with the added bonuses of 1) being able to note the resulting degradation of public education as a support for the "need" to continue voucher programs and 2) being able to subsidize single-view religious teaching.

But, hey, there's always one or two edge cases from the rest to whom they can point as benefitting. "See, in America, anyone can get ahead. Let the invisible hand of the market do its thing!"

What a crock...

Ha ha! What are the "economies of scale" that provide benefits to MCPS consumers? The top notch curriculum generated by their Central Office? School lunches? Of, never mind, subsidized by the Feds. HR? Talk to the applicants who don't hear back for months. Etc. Your whole logic is disjointed. If public schools are left with fewer high needs students perhaps they can specialize.

I think it would be the opposite it would be most likely that the highest needs students will be the ones who don't get school choice because only a few select schools cater to students with IEPs and there aren't a lot of private schools with esol programs

Students with disabilities are a very diverse population of students with various special needs. Very few students would need services that would be the equivalent to a 100% pull out from a general education environment. Also, some private school students still qualify for MCPS special education services.

I was frustrated with the treatment and lack of support for one child that I transferred him out of MCPS to a non-parochial private school that had about 12 students per class and a disability support counselor. My child thrived because the teachers had time to give him the attention he needed. Much of what would have been considered special education services to learn organizational, time management, and study skills was woven into the universal design of their curriculum. My son’s school also offered a supervised study hall period in the library so the disability support counselor would have periodic checks which help with the transition to the school. The school took the educational data for my child, the MCPS plan, had one meeting with my child and myself, and fully implemented our agreed to plan. A truly positive and rewarding experience.

I would say, before we chose the private we selected, we looked at other schools. Not all privates had the ability to meet my son’s needs and schools like Lab and McLean were not the least restrictive environment for my child. Privates are not one size fits all institutions, however when there’s a good fit, the environment is an appropriate remedy when MCPS doesn’t have the resources to implement a child’s IEP.

Even if they don’t need pull out support, they still require something more than the status quo. Whether that is additional time on test, smaller classes, or different curriculum, all of which comes at a cost. Lets take smaller classes for instance. Many kids, special ed or neuro typical could benefit from smaller classes. But that requires more space, more teachers, etc etc. So yes a smaller private can offer this, but its not necessarily less expensive or less resource intensive.

Much of Special Education would benefit all students. That’s why a universal design of implementing a plan for a disabled child is a best practice in education. Any general education teacher will say class size is key as far as how well they can meet the needs of all students.

As is, MCPS is at a low point in meeting the needs of students with disabilities. Complaints and law suits are on the rise and MCPS is wasting funds for noncompliance. How do they dig themselves out of the mess left over from ignoring students with disabilities for the past two years?

A voucher system would provide a mechanism to allow students who MCPS doesn’t meet their needs to go elsewhere. This could be aimed at disabled students who have needs for more attention and support, but it could also be exceptional students who need more enrichment but didn’t get chosen in the magnet school lottery process.

If enrollment declines in MCPS schools, it would lower the staffing and infrastructure needs of the entire school system. Less size, less bureaucracy, and focus for what MCPS does best - the middle 50% of students.

You know it's not well advertised by mcps but there are ways to get mcps to pay the private school tuition of a student who is not being well served in public education. I have some friends who took that route and their daughter is in private school that services students with IEPs. However this took a lot of time and advocacy and documentation

The only way to get private special education placement at public expense is to hire an attorney (at around $500 per hour) and take MCPS to Due Process. A huge gamble for parents, most do not have the $50,000 to $75,000 for the risk. MCPS legal fees do not get paid out of the MCPS budget. They are paid out of the Montgomery County Government Budget so the sky is the limit as they fight a prolonged legal battle against a disabled child.

Many families of students with disabilities, especially after the hell of the last two years, want more than endless meetings that do nothing for their child because MCPS never fully implements an IEP. For some students, smaller classes are better. At the end of the day, as a parent I feel my child has been lied to and cheated by a school system that was quick to say his needs could not be met in an online setting, not give him support and services to get caught up, then was real quick in January to pull the plug again because staffing was needed to babysit not provide the services my child needed. MCPS treats students with disabilities as undesirable afterthoughts. I would be happy to take a pittance of my tax dollars to take my child to an environment that has the resources and who wants to teach him.

I'm not sure which private school. You think had the staff to manage your little snowflake in January, during the height of the covid surge, when many private schools were also virtual... But you're aware there's no law mandating private schools follow any IEPs at all?

Guess what? What matters most is that the child needs are met and the child receives an education.

Thus far, the IEP my child has might as well been written on toilet paper. It has not been followed in 2 years.

Then there’s the dumbing down of the curriculum for my child so the school can say he is making adequate progress. MCPS is passing a child through by lowering the expectations to the point he is not learning basic writing and math skills.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would you take your child out of MCPS if there was a private school voucher program so Montgomery County residents had school choice?

Sure, if you want to ruin any chance of an average family getting their kids a great education.

Wait, what? Average kids in MCPS are not getting a 'great education'. Not on your life. Most are barely even getting an 'adequate education'.

Says an anonymous DCUM poster

No. That’s what the recent MCAP scores show. It’s what data on the MCPS website itself shows.

They showed that MCPS was doing far better than any other county in the state which is to their credit but these nutjobs only want to see problems to justify their fantasy of destroying anything that serves the common good like public schools.

Far better when everyone is in the toilet isn’t better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'll be damned if my tax dollars go to private schools that pump out a bunch of Kavanaugh's and Youngkin's like the white supremacist factory that many of them are

yet I'm sure you'd set your kids to harvard/yale/etc in a heartbeat and have no problems with your "tax dollars" going there

Yet again proving that most private school parents only care about image, stature, and money. None of these things have anything to do with morality and ethics or the lack there of displayed by kavanaugh and youngkin types, coupled with their white supremacy.

Ps most successful people go to non-ivys