Is it time for private school vouchers in Montgomery County?

[Anonymous]

Right now would be the perfect time to get vouchers on the ballot for the November election. MCPS and the Board of Ed do not put students first in any action that they take. They kept students virtual for 18 months. For those of us that have children with disabilities, MCPS is not truthful and honest at school meetings.

MCPS is so far down the rabbit hole of taking money then wasting it that it would be better to take tax dollars to institutions that put students first. The educational gap between MCPS and private schools is widening because MCPS has lowered its standards and expectations. The 50% rule and no due dates are two examples.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No, as most private schools are $50K, so even $10K barely makes a dent. They aren't going to have vouchers so keep dreaming. And, we don't have enough private schools with space to make that work.

Exactly. No one can explain how private school vouchers would works. Also, there will be more demand than supply if vouchers become widely available.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, as most private schools are $50K, so even $10K barely makes a dent. They aren't going to have vouchers so keep dreaming. And, we don't have enough private schools with space to make that work.

Exactly. No one can explain how private school vouchers would works. Also, there will be more demand than supply if vouchers become widely available.

The high demand would reflect how broken MCPS has become. We are now operating at PG County levels based on the resumes of Central Office staff.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Right now would be the perfect time to get vouchers on the ballot for the November election. MCPS and the Board of Ed do not put students first in any action that they take. They kept students virtual for 18 months. For those of us that have children with disabilities, MCPS is not truthful and honest at school meetings.

MCPS is so far down the rabbit hole of taking money then wasting it that it would be better to take tax dollars to institutions that put students first. The educational gap between MCPS and private schools is widening because MCPS has lowered its standards and expectations. The 50% rule and no due dates are two examples.

You have to admire the way they stay on message like the good little beta bots they are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, as most private schools are $50K, so even $10K barely makes a dent. They aren't going to have vouchers so keep dreaming. And, we don't have enough private schools with space to make that work.

Exactly. No one can explain how private school vouchers would works. Also, there will be more demand than supply if vouchers become widely available.

The high demand would reflect how broken MCPS has become. We are now operating at PG County levels based on the resumes of Central Office staff.

... Kenny gets bold and throws in a racist dog whistle.

[Anonymous]

Most private schools are pretty full these days so what would be the point of vouchers?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also want to note that teachers in private schools get paid MUCH less than public schools. Like $20k less. Benefits also aren’t great. So if you’re shifting populations to be served by lower wages that isn’t great for the economy of the county IMO

Privates don’t have the mid year attrition and vacancies like MCPS. They must be doing something right to be fully staffed.

"I'm going to post this generalized, unverifiable " fact" now to prove that I'm using "facts" in my presentation."

--Kenny on his college essay. And also now.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Would you take your child out of MCPS if there was a private school voucher program so Montgomery County residents had school choice?

Sure, if you want to ruin any chance of an average family getting their kids a great education.

Wait, what? Average kids in MCPS are not getting a 'great education'. Not on your life. Most are barely even getting an 'adequate education'.

Says an anonymous DCUM poster

No. That’s what the recent MCAP scores show. It’s what data on the MCPS website itself shows.

They showed that MCPS was doing far better than any other county in the state which is to their credit but these nutjobs only want to see problems to justify their fantasy of destroying anything that serves the common good like public schools.

How did HCPS do? I'm guessing, they did better than MCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:Students are not "customers." They are students.

One reason, Kenny, that you have this Federalist internship, is someone took a stab at educating you, patted you on the back, and encouraged your hopes and dreams. I'm not sure how familiar you are with America, but we have a vision here, imperfectly realized, that education is the great equalizer. It's what gives every child in this nation the tools they need for success.

In practice, as with everything, nothing is so simple.

But your facile notions of how markets work, how children are "customers," how teachers are suddenly failing but will magically be enabled by some kind of fairydust private school... Run by Catholics, no less! I mean, I'd be laughing hysterically if it wasn't for you being serious.

I am genuinely sorry you've been misled.

These posters are just outside agitators. There's no way they even live here.

Ita. They may not be interns from the Federalist, but we all know Daily Caller used to troll these boards regularly pre-Trump and their elevation to the status of "news," at which point they began trolling the country.

There is no reason to assume everyone posting is doing so because of personal opinion, although that should be the intent.

So instead they are MCPS employees on here who defend the indefensible - 11 million in outside counsel paid to fight kids on IEPs. Two years of ignoring FAPE directly and a culture of distaste for children on IEPs. I would rather be tested like customer if my kid got appropriate services than an MCPS pawn for your pension. Disgraceful that you would defend this utterly repugnant system. Love Kenny (who is actually a 30 year resident of the county)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Students are not "customers." They are students.

One reason, Kenny, that you have this Federalist internship, is someone took a stab at educating you, patted you on the back, and encouraged your hopes and dreams. I'm not sure how familiar you are with America, but we have a vision here, imperfectly realized, that education is the great equalizer. It's what gives every child in this nation the tools they need for success.

In practice, as with everything, nothing is so simple.

But your facile notions of how markets work, how children are "customers," how teachers are suddenly failing but will magically be enabled by some kind of fairydust private school... Run by Catholics, no less! I mean, I'd be laughing hysterically if it wasn't for you being serious.

I am genuinely sorry you've been misled.

These posters are just outside agitators. There's no way they even live here.

Ita. They may not be interns from the Federalist, but we all know Daily Caller used to troll these boards regularly pre-Trump and their elevation to the status of "news," at which point they began trolling the country.

There is no reason to assume everyone posting is doing so because of personal opinion, although that should be the intent.

So instead they are MCPS employees on here who defend the indefensible - 11 million in outside counsel paid to fight kids on IEPs. Two years of ignoring FAPE directly and a culture of distaste for children on IEPs. I would rather be tested like customer if my kid got appropriate services than an MCPS pawn for your pension. Disgraceful that you would defend this utterly repugnant system. Love Kenny (who is actually a 30 year resident of the county)

NP - Love back to you Kenny.

MCPS wants to constantly fight parents who have children with disabilities rather than collaborating at team meetings on the data at the table. They refuse to address problems even when the data is there and even if parents get appropriate goals and objectives on an IEP.

MCPS uses disgusting tactics that are discriminatory and retaliatory to keep parents in check who advocate for their children. They waste millions of dollars ($11 million per PP) on outside legal representation by a firm that hasn’t had to compete for the contract in decades. Now, MCPS wants to pay $500,000 for a communications firm contract?

Waste, waste, and more waste of tax payer money while the education standards keep getting lowered. I have a child that gets passing report card grades for the last two years but he is failing most unit tests in math. There’s no attempts to fill in gaps. A tutor we hired said he has Algebra gaps causing the problems so that was a course my child took two years before the pandemic.

Parents want their children to be educated. Right now MCPS is not putting the education of students first. If you are happy, stay. For those of us that would like our tax dollars to actually go to teaching our children, we would like to take the funds elsewhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Students are not "customers." They are students.

One reason, Kenny, that you have this Federalist internship, is someone took a stab at educating you, patted you on the back, and encouraged your hopes and dreams. I'm not sure how familiar you are with America, but we have a vision here, imperfectly realized, that education is the great equalizer. It's what gives every child in this nation the tools they need for success.

In practice, as with everything, nothing is so simple.

But your facile notions of how markets work, how children are "customers," how teachers are suddenly failing but will magically be enabled by some kind of fairydust private school... Run by Catholics, no less! I mean, I'd be laughing hysterically if it wasn't for you being serious.

I am genuinely sorry you've been misled.

These posters are just outside agitators. There's no way they even live here.

Ita. They may not be interns from the Federalist, but we all know Daily Caller used to troll these boards regularly pre-Trump and their elevation to the status of "news," at which point they began trolling the country.

There is no reason to assume everyone posting is doing so because of personal opinion, although that should be the intent.

Thank you for your post. I found DCUM around the time that COVID hit, so, relatively recently. I’ve been troubled by the nastiness, the often casual racism, and the trolling, which often seems gratuitous. I really appreciate this reminder that much of this is deliberate, and that these efforts to foster discord and distrust are not, for the most part, coming from people that are actually my neighbors.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Great way to shift wealth towards the wealthy while reducing effectiveness for the rest by decimating economies of scale. It's a win-win for the self-centered, with the added bonuses of 1) being able to note the resulting degradation of public education as a support for the "need" to continue voucher programs and 2) being able to subsidize single-view religious teaching.

But, hey, there's always one or two edge cases from the rest to whom they can point as benefitting. "See, in America, anyone can get ahead. Let the invisible hand of the market do its thing!"

What a crock...

Ha ha! What are the "economies of scale" that provide benefits to MCPS consumers? The top notch curriculum generated by their Central Office? School lunches? Of, never mind, subsidized by the Feds. HR? Talk to the applicants who don't hear back for months. Etc. Your whole logic is disjointed. If public schools are left with fewer high needs students perhaps they can specialize.

I think it would be the opposite it would be most likely that the highest needs students will be the ones who don't get school choice because only a few select schools cater to students with IEPs and there aren't a lot of private schools with esol programs

Students with disabilities are a very diverse population of students with various special needs. Very few students would need services that would be the equivalent to a 100% pull out from a general education environment. Also, some private school students still qualify for MCPS special education services.

I was frustrated with the treatment and lack of support for one child that I transferred him out of MCPS to a non-parochial private school that had about 12 students per class and a disability support counselor. My child thrived because the teachers had time to give him the attention he needed. Much of what would have been considered special education services to learn organizational, time management, and study skills was woven into the universal design of their curriculum. My son’s school also offered a supervised study hall period in the library so the disability support counselor would have periodic checks which help with the transition to the school. The school took the educational data for my child, the MCPS plan, had one meeting with my child and myself, and fully implemented our agreed to plan. A truly positive and rewarding experience.

I would say, before we chose the private we selected, we looked at other schools. Not all privates had the ability to meet my son’s needs and schools like Lab and McLean were not the least restrictive environment for my child. Privates are not one size fits all institutions, however when there’s a good fit, the environment is an appropriate remedy when MCPS doesn’t have the resources to implement a child’s IEP.

Even if they don’t need pull out support, they still require something more than the status quo. Whether that is additional time on test, smaller classes, or different curriculum, all of which comes at a cost. Lets take smaller classes for instance. Many kids, special ed or neuro typical could benefit from smaller classes. But that requires more space, more teachers, etc etc. So yes a smaller private can offer this, but its not necessarily less expensive or less resource intensive.

Much of Special Education would benefit all students. That’s why a universal design of implementing a plan for a disabled child is a best practice in education. Any general education teacher will say class size is key as far as how well they can meet the needs of all students.

As is, MCPS is at a low point in meeting the needs of students with disabilities. Complaints and law suits are on the rise and MCPS is wasting funds for noncompliance. How do they dig themselves out of the mess left over from ignoring students with disabilities for the past two years?

A voucher system would provide a mechanism to allow students who MCPS doesn’t meet their needs to go elsewhere. This could be aimed at disabled students who have needs for more attention and support, but it could also be exceptional students who need more enrichment but didn’t get chosen in the magnet school lottery process.

If enrollment declines in MCPS schools, it would lower the staffing and infrastructure needs of the entire school system. Less size, less bureaucracy, and focus for what MCPS does best - the middle 50% of students.

You know it's not well advertised by mcps but there are ways to get mcps to pay the private school tuition of a student who is not being well served in public education. I have some friends who took that route and their daughter is in private school that services students with IEPs. However this took a lot of time and advocacy and documentation

The only way to get private special education placement at public expense is to hire an attorney (at around $500 per hour) and take MCPS to Due Process. A huge gamble for parents, most do not have the $50,000 to $75,000 for the risk. MCPS legal fees do not get paid out of the MCPS budget. They are paid out of the Montgomery County Government Budget so the sky is the limit as they fight a prolonged legal battle against a disabled child.

Many families of students with disabilities, especially after the hell of the last two years, want more than endless meetings that do nothing for their child because MCPS never fully implements an IEP. For some students, smaller classes are better. At the end of the day, as a parent I feel my child has been lied to and cheated by a school system that was quick to say his needs could not be met in an online setting, not give him support and services to get caught up, then was real quick in January to pull the plug again because staffing was needed to babysit not provide the services my child needed. MCPS treats students with disabilities as undesirable afterthoughts. I would be happy to take a pittance of my tax dollars to take my child to an environment that has the resources and who wants to teach him.

I'm not sure which private school. You think had the staff to manage your little snowflake in January, during the height of the covid surge, when many private schools were also virtual... But you're aware there's no law mandating private schools follow any IEPs at all?

Guess what? What matters most is that the child needs are met and the child receives an education.

Thus far, the IEP my child has might as well been written on toilet paper. It has not been followed in 2 years.

Then there’s the dumbing down of the curriculum for my child so the school can say he is making adequate progress. MCPS is passing a child through by lowering the expectations to the point he is not learning basic writing and math skills.

Query: Is the “2 years” that you’re so incensed about the same two years when the rest of Montgomery County and, indeed, the rest of the wold, was struggling with the pandemic? A completely different 2 years? Some overlapping time period?
Guess what? “What’s matters most” is that people were dying. And your kid got the best that concerned administrators and dedicated teachers and a supportive community could provide under frighteningly challenging conditions. Your priorities are self-servingly interesting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The reality is that school choice, whether vouchers or more likely charters, is an inevitability at this point. A matter of when not if. It will be the legacy of Brenda Wolff’s leadership as President of the BOE.

Nah. The reality is that even those of us who support public education, and, perhaps especially those of us who support public education, will want more accountability and perhaps a whole different set of services in return for our tax dollars. Nothing is “inevitable “, and you seem to be misreading the priorities of most county residents — perhaps deliberately.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also want to note that teachers in private schools get paid MUCH less than public schools. Like $20k less. Benefits also aren’t great. So if you’re shifting populations to be served by lower wages that isn’t great for the economy of the county IMO

Privates don’t have the mid year attrition and vacancies like MCPS. They must be doing something right to be fully staffed.

"I'm going to post this generalized, unverifiable " fact" now to prove that I'm using "facts" in my presentation."

--Kenny on his college essay. And also now.

What sources are you using to check private schools openings? Tons of people left during the year, including teachers and Learning Specialists. Just the other week our previous school had a French teacher leave with 2 weeks notice.

Look at AIMS, AISGW, NAIS and Indeed.com to see what jobs are open right now. In private schools they can have anyone teach anything. So a Spanish teacher could be covering classes for a departed French teacher. Kindergarten teachers could pick up a HS English class during their planning period. There also isn’t a union for private schools in this area so teachers are spread very thin covering additional classes and duties.

And they do have mid-year attrition. Used to be just unhappy families leaving during the year or families that knew ahead of time they would be relocating to the area. Now there are things like the mess at Whittle causing families to scramble and try to join new schools for the final trimester.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The reality is that school choice, whether vouchers or more likely charters, is an inevitability at this point. A matter of when not if. It will be the legacy of Brenda Wolff’s leadership as President of the BOE.

Nah. The reality is that even those of us who support public education, and, perhaps especially those of us who support public education, will want more accountability and perhaps a whole different set of services in return for our tax dollars. Nothing is “inevitable “, and you seem to be misreading the priorities of most county residents — perhaps deliberately.

Two charter proposals came before the BOE already this year and the BOE voted both down. One of the proposals was well funded with a million dollar state grant. It should be noted that these charter proposals were sponsored and lead by Black groups. The proposals will keep coming and if the discontent with MCPS continues grow, they will be inevitable

If people cared about public education and believe that school choice will undermine it, they just understand that the only way to protect public education is to take action now to bring MCPS back from the brink.

There is a lot slack available for further deterioration of educational quality. The self-correction needs to happen now.