Teacher might quit

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Honest question: do frustrated teachers wish that schools had more punishment options for students?

It honestly feels like the carrot isn't appealing enough, and the stick isn't punitive enough under the current system

More punishment options? I would love just ONE option.

There are none. When a kid has a meltdown in my classroom, I am told to ignore it. I am also told to tell all of the other kids to ignore it. We are supposed to ignore and carry on.

It's impossible to do so. Kids can't ignore it and I certainly can't ignore it AND also teach AND also not really ignore it and watch the kid to make sure they don't hurt themselves or another kid.

We had to abandon the classroom 4 times this year over one extremely disruptive kid. My classroom has been destroyed by this kid twice.

Other than meetings with the parents and increasing the kid's para time, there are no repercussions. However, I don't know about most schools, but at mine, we are short on paras and they are splitting their time between students. Very few students or classrooms get a fulltime para.

Honestly, if you're a parent whose kid's class has a disruptive child, PLEASE complain!!! Complain nonstop to the admins at the school. The teacher can do nothing but with enough complaints, the admins can do something! Your kids are getting subpar education because of these disruptive kids. How is the rights of one kid greater than the rights of the other 19?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honest question: do frustrated teachers wish that schools had more punishment options for students?

It honestly feels like the carrot isn't appealing enough, and the stick isn't punitive enough under the current system

I think teachers wish there were options, period.

I wish we had more options and more "bodies in the room" help with kids who need more support. And, when a kid is a danger to themselves or others, or completely disrupt the educational process for others, if that support doesn't help enough, I don't want it to take months or years before that child is placed in a special education setting. Punishment doesn't work very well. But yeah, when kids bring in weapons, I want them out. Period. When kids assault teachers, I want them out.

That shouldn't even have to be said!!

Right? And yet a fellow teacher was hit by an unruly kid. The kid also assaulted the SRO. More police units were called as well... and nothing happened. The school system doesn't want the optics of having a CHILD detained by the police. The admins pretty much played the "if you pursue this incident, can you be sure that you did everything correctly in your power to try to stop the kid's escalation?" card. Basically, if you want to press charges, go ahead, but know that we are going to be looking for a way to blame this on you. I don't know what the admins had to do/promise to keep the assaulted SRO from going forth with anything. Maybe it was the child's age (12) that prevented them from their own charges.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honest question: do frustrated teachers wish that schools had more punishment options for students?

It honestly feels like the carrot isn't appealing enough, and the stick isn't punitive enough under the current system

I think teachers wish there were options, period.

I wish we had more options and more "bodies in the room" help with kids who need more support. And, when a kid is a danger to themselves or others, or completely disrupt the educational process for others, if that support doesn't help enough, I don't want it to take months or years before that child is placed in a special education setting. Punishment doesn't work very well. But yeah, when kids bring in weapons, I want them out. Period. When kids assault teachers, I want them out.

That shouldn't even have to be said!!

Right? And yet a fellow teacher was hit by an unruly kid. The kid also assaulted the SRO. More police units were called as well... and nothing happened. The school system doesn't want the optics of having a CHILD detained by the police. The admins pretty much played the "if you pursue this incident, can you be sure that you did everything correctly in your power to try to stop the kid's escalation?" card. Basically, if you want to press charges, go ahead, but know that we are going to be looking for a way to blame this on you. I don't know what the admins had to do/promise to keep the assaulted SRO from going forth with anything. Maybe it was the child's age (12) that prevented them from their own charges.

My DW is an ES teacher. She was told by students that another student had a knife and had threatened to stab someone. She took the knife, but the only thing that happened was a meeting with the parents and admin. The threat wasn't seen as serious since she had heard second hand the threat about stabbing a particular student.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honest question: do frustrated teachers wish that schools had more punishment options for students?

It honestly feels like the carrot isn't appealing enough, and the stick isn't punitive enough under the current system

More punishment options? I would love just ONE option.

There are none. When a kid has a meltdown in my classroom, I am told to ignore it. I am also told to tell all of the other kids to ignore it. We are supposed to ignore and carry on.

It's impossible to do so. Kids can't ignore it and I certainly can't ignore it AND also teach AND also not really ignore it and watch the kid to make sure they don't hurt themselves or another kid.

We had to abandon the classroom 4 times this year over one extremely disruptive kid. My classroom has been destroyed by this kid twice.

Other than meetings with the parents and increasing the kid's para time, there are no repercussions. However, I don't know about most schools, but at mine, we are short on paras and they are splitting their time between students. Very few students or classrooms get a fulltime para.

Honestly, if you're a parent whose kid's class has a disruptive child, PLEASE complain!!! Complain nonstop to the admins at the school. The teacher can do nothing but with enough complaints, the admins can do something! Your kids are getting subpar education because of these disruptive kids. How is the rights of one kid greater than the rights of the other 19?

Are you one of those Howard County teachers that wants to kick children with special needs out of school? Your message strongly implies that. Or at least that don't you don't agree with the policy of LRE.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honest question: do frustrated teachers wish that schools had more punishment options for students?

It honestly feels like the carrot isn't appealing enough, and the stick isn't punitive enough under the current system

More punishment options? I would love just ONE option.

There are none. When a kid has a meltdown in my classroom, I am told to ignore it. I am also told to tell all of the other kids to ignore it. We are supposed to ignore and carry on.

It's impossible to do so. Kids can't ignore it and I certainly can't ignore it AND also teach AND also not really ignore it and watch the kid to make sure they don't hurt themselves or another kid.

We had to abandon the classroom 4 times this year over one extremely disruptive kid. My classroom has been destroyed by this kid twice.

Other than meetings with the parents and increasing the kid's para time, there are no repercussions. However, I don't know about most schools, but at mine, we are short on paras and they are splitting their time between students. Very few students or classrooms get a fulltime para.

Honestly, if you're a parent whose kid's class has a disruptive child, PLEASE complain!!! Complain nonstop to the admins at the school. The teacher can do nothing but with enough complaints, the admins can do something! Your kids are getting subpar education because of these disruptive kids. How is the rights of one kid greater than the rights of the other 19?

Are you one of those Howard County teachers that wants to kick children with special needs out of school? Your message strongly implies that. Or at least that don't you don't agree with the policy of LRE.

Does special needs always equate with violent in your mind?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honest question: do frustrated teachers wish that schools had more punishment options for students?

It honestly feels like the carrot isn't appealing enough, and the stick isn't punitive enough under the current system

I think teachers wish there were options, period.

I wish we had more options and more "bodies in the room" help with kids who need more support. And, when a kid is a danger to themselves or others, or completely disrupt the educational process for others, if that support doesn't help enough, I don't want it to take months or years before that child is placed in a special education setting. Punishment doesn't work very well. But yeah, when kids bring in weapons, I want them out. Period. When kids assault teachers, I want them out.

Hello fellow teacher. 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

And another round of applause from another fellow teacher! 👏👏👏

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honest question: do frustrated teachers wish that schools had more punishment options for students?

It honestly feels like the carrot isn't appealing enough, and the stick isn't punitive enough under the current system

More punishment options? I would love just ONE option.

There are none. When a kid has a meltdown in my classroom, I am told to ignore it. I am also told to tell all of the other kids to ignore it. We are supposed to ignore and carry on.

It's impossible to do so. Kids can't ignore it and I certainly can't ignore it AND also teach AND also not really ignore it and watch the kid to make sure they don't hurt themselves or another kid.

We had to abandon the classroom 4 times this year over one extremely disruptive kid. My classroom has been destroyed by this kid twice.

Other than meetings with the parents and increasing the kid's para time, there are no repercussions. However, I don't know about most schools, but at mine, we are short on paras and they are splitting their time between students. Very few students or classrooms get a fulltime para.

Honestly, if you're a parent whose kid's class has a disruptive child, PLEASE complain!!! Complain nonstop to the admins at the school. The teacher can do nothing but with enough complaints, the admins can do something! Your kids are getting subpar education because of these disruptive kids. How is the rights of one kid greater than the rights of the other 19?

Are you one of those Howard County teachers that wants to kick children with special needs out of school? Your message strongly implies that. Or at least that don't you don't agree with the policy of LRE.

Does special needs always equate with violent in your mind?

No, but some students with special needs have violent tantrums. Others have nonviolent outbursts. Are you ignoring students and continuing on with class during *violent* tantrums? If so, you should look closely at your professional liability policy through the

You're avoiding the issue, but it is clear you're talking about students that predominantly, if not exclusive, have high support needs and are on IEPs. And your attitude here is really troubling. Rather than saying you need additional supports in place in the classroom to prevent and manage these outbursts, you're saying you need ways to *punish* these kids. Do you really think punishment is going to be effective for these kids?

I think you simply don't want kids with high support needs in your classroom. But that isn't how special education works anymore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honest question: do frustrated teachers wish that schools had more punishment options for students?

It honestly feels like the carrot isn't appealing enough, and the stick isn't punitive enough under the current system

Two thoughts on that:

1) A lot of the behavior last I’m seeing this year isn’t because kids won’t do what they’re told; they can’t. Their learning differences (diagnosed and not) and their psychological conditions (under treatment and not) prevent them from being available to learn. I’ve never seen so many primary school kids with undiagnosed ASD and untreated ADHD, and I had no idea that so many children met the clinical criteria for anxiety. And ALL children are behind socially. We’re trying to teach third-grade material to kids who have the self control and executive functioning of second graders.

2) I’m not into punishing kids, nor is my school. What we DO allow is for children to experience natural consequences for their actions. In the long-term bringing kids into the conversation and connecting consequences to their actions teaches self regulation and pro-social behavior much better than giving everyone detentions and suspensions all the time. But with the number of behaviors popping up this year, it’s hard to think of a consequence, communicate it, follow through on it, and get in touch with the parents. I have multiple students each day who need behavioral support.

Sorry. I'm PP that posted the question. Punishment was probably the wrong word; consequence is what I meant.

It feels like what I hear from DD (4th grade) is that there are no consequences for the students that disrupt the class. And sadly, she is collateral damage; the teacher has no recourse so the disruptors keep disrupting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honest question: do frustrated teachers wish that schools had more punishment options for students?

It honestly feels like the carrot isn't appealing enough, and the stick isn't punitive enough under the current system

Two thoughts on that:

1) A lot of the behavior last I’m seeing this year isn’t because kids won’t do what they’re told; they can’t. Their learning differences (diagnosed and not) and their psychological conditions (under treatment and not) prevent them from being available to learn. I’ve never seen so many primary school kids with undiagnosed ASD and untreated ADHD, and I had no idea that so many children met the clinical criteria for anxiety. And ALL children are behind socially. We’re trying to teach third-grade material to kids who have the self control and executive functioning of second graders.

2) I’m not into punishing kids, nor is my school. What we DO allow is for children to experience natural consequences for their actions. In the long-term bringing kids into the conversation and connecting consequences to their actions teaches self regulation and pro-social behavior much better than giving everyone detentions and suspensions all the time. But with the number of behaviors popping up this year, it’s hard to think of a consequence, communicate it, follow through on it, and get in touch with the parents. I have multiple students each day who need behavioral support.

Sorry. I'm PP that posted the question. Punishment was probably the wrong word; consequence is what I meant.

It feels like what I hear from DD (4th grade) is that there are no consequences for the students that disrupt the class. And sadly, she is collateral damage; the teacher has no recourse so the disruptors keep disrupting.

Yes, pretty much so. Every minute of the day, every day. I’m not exaggerating.

Gr. 3 Teacher

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honest question: do frustrated teachers wish that schools had more punishment options for students?

It honestly feels like the carrot isn't appealing enough, and the stick isn't punitive enough under the current system

More punishment options? I would love just ONE option.

There are none. When a kid has a meltdown in my classroom, I am told to ignore it. I am also told to tell all of the other kids to ignore it. We are supposed to ignore and carry on.

It's impossible to do so. Kids can't ignore it and I certainly can't ignore it AND also teach AND also not really ignore it and watch the kid to make sure they don't hurt themselves or another kid.

We had to abandon the classroom 4 times this year over one extremely disruptive kid. My classroom has been destroyed by this kid twice.

Other than meetings with the parents and increasing the kid's para time, there are no repercussions. However, I don't know about most schools, but at mine, we are short on paras and they are splitting their time between students. Very few students or classrooms get a fulltime para.

Honestly, if you're a parent whose kid's class has a disruptive child, PLEASE complain!!! Complain nonstop to the admins at the school. The teacher can do nothing but with enough complaints, the admins can do something! Your kids are getting subpar education because of these disruptive kids. How is the rights of one kid greater than the rights of the other 19?

Are you one of those Howard County teachers that wants to kick children with special needs out of school? Your message strongly implies that. Or at least that don't you don't agree with the policy of LRE.

Does special needs always equate with violent in your mind?

No, but some students with special needs have violent tantrums. Others have nonviolent outbursts. Are you ignoring students and continuing on with class during *violent* tantrums? If so, you should look closely at your professional liability policy through the

You're avoiding the issue, but it is clear you're talking about students that predominantly, if not exclusive, have high support needs and are on IEPs. And your attitude here is really troubling. Rather than saying you need additional supports in place in the classroom to prevent and manage these outbursts, you're saying you need ways to *punish* these kids. Do you really think punishment is going to be effective for these kids?

I think you simply don't want kids with high support needs in your classroom. But that isn't how special education works anymore.

If the kids are repeatedly VIOLENT, that needs to change.

[Anonymous]

Look, I’m an elementary teacher and I concur that the behavior issues we’re seeing this year are more numerous and, sometimes, more serious than in the before times. Children who are constantly disruptive are communicating their need for help. To remain in the classroom they need a behavior plan that is effective for that student and sometimes they need a one-on-one aide. They almost always need mental health and sometimes SPED support too. Punishment does nothing to address the root cause of the problem and can even exacerbate it as they child begins to take on the “bad kid” identity. The problem of continuous behavior issues requires more aids and mental health resources. Most schools are very understaffed in these areas in a normal year. This year? It’s bad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honest question: do frustrated teachers wish that schools had more punishment options for students?

It honestly feels like the carrot isn't appealing enough, and the stick isn't punitive enough under the current system

More punishment options? I would love just ONE option.

There are none. When a kid has a meltdown in my classroom, I am told to ignore it. I am also told to tell all of the other kids to ignore it. We are supposed to ignore and carry on.

It's impossible to do so. Kids can't ignore it and I certainly can't ignore it AND also teach AND also not really ignore it and watch the kid to make sure they don't hurt themselves or another kid.

We had to abandon the classroom 4 times this year over one extremely disruptive kid. My classroom has been destroyed by this kid twice.

Other than meetings with the parents and increasing the kid's para time, there are no repercussions. However, I don't know about most schools, but at mine, we are short on paras and they are splitting their time between students. Very few students or classrooms get a fulltime para.

Honestly, if you're a parent whose kid's class has a disruptive child, PLEASE complain!!! Complain nonstop to the admins at the school. The teacher can do nothing but with enough complaints, the admins can do something! Your kids are getting subpar education because of these disruptive kids. How is the rights of one kid greater than the rights of the other 19?

Are you one of those Howard County teachers that wants to kick children with special needs out of school? Your message strongly implies that. Or at least that don't you don't agree with the policy of LRE.

Does special needs always equate with violent in your mind?

No, but some students with special needs have violent tantrums. Others have nonviolent outbursts. Are you ignoring students and continuing on with class during *violent* tantrums? If so, you should look closely at your professional liability policy through the

You're avoiding the issue, but it is clear you're talking about students that predominantly, if not exclusive, have high support needs and are on IEPs. And your attitude here is really troubling. Rather than saying you need additional supports in place in the classroom to prevent and manage these outbursts, you're saying you need ways to *punish* these kids. Do you really think punishment is going to be effective for these kids?

I think you simply don't want kids with high support needs in your classroom. But that isn't how special education works anymore.

If the kids are repeatedly VIOLENT, that needs to change.

Perhaps, though the earlier poster wasn't primarily complaining about violent outbursts. She was complaining about disruptive outbursts. The fact that she started out with the example of ignoring students was a pretty indication that the violent cases aren't the ones she's most concerned about.

[Anonymous]

Here's my issue with having kids with high needs, with or without an IEP. In some cases, I can meet their needs and hopefully make it a great year for everyone. Sometimes behavior charts work. Sometimes it takes having a social story or a calming corner. Sometimes its preferential seating, finding the student's interest, lots of movement opportunities, checking in with the student, lots of praise, or any number of other strategies that effective teachers use. I'm happy to use these. With some kids, they need all or many of these. That's fine.

What I am not okay with is when I cannot teach the class as a whole because I am literally consumed with the needs of a handful of kids. When I spend 25% of my day doing direct instruction on SEL, or when I'm evacuating the classroom over and over, I'm not okay. And what I'm really not okay with is this: Some kids need a full time aide to come and sit with them the whole day or part of the day. Some kids can be successful in gen ed with that support. When the kid or kids don't get that? (and 99% of the time, they don't) When I'm expected to do what really takes 3-4 people? I'm not okay.

This isn't about not wanting high needs kids or not wanting kids with IEP's. I want ALL my kids to be successful, IEP or not. ICU nurses have smaller caseloads than other nurses. That's because the needs of those patients are higher. I'm fine with kids with high needs, but then I need more support to support those kids. Parents should want me to have the supports I'm asking for because it's in the best interest of those with special needs and those without.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When my teen was in 4th grade, the teacher could not control the class. It was hell for the entire year, they learned practically nothing, and she left teaching at the end of the year.

Strength to the teacher and all the children in her class, OP.

Must be something with 4th grade.One of my kids had a teacher in 4th who cried and guilt tripped the class a lot. She also was friends with many of them on instagram and posted about her mental health issues-I guess to be a role model. She then took a mental leave eventually which was a good idea.

The 4th graders are all on instagram where you live?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here's my issue with having kids with high needs, with or without an IEP. In some cases, I can meet their needs and hopefully make it a great year for everyone. Sometimes behavior charts work. Sometimes it takes having a social story or a calming corner. Sometimes its preferential seating, finding the student's interest, lots of movement opportunities, checking in with the student, lots of praise, or any number of other strategies that effective teachers use. I'm happy to use these. With some kids, they need all or many of these. That's fine.

What I am not okay with is when I cannot teach the class as a whole because I am literally consumed with the needs of a handful of kids. When I spend 25% of my day doing direct instruction on SEL, or when I'm evacuating the classroom over and over, I'm not okay. And what I'm really not okay with is this: Some kids need a full time aide to come and sit with them the whole day or part of the day. Some kids can be successful in gen ed with that support. When the kid or kids don't get that? (and 99% of the time, they don't) When I'm expected to do what really takes 3-4 people? I'm not okay.

This isn't about not wanting high needs kids or not wanting kids with IEP's. I want ALL my kids to be successful, IEP or not. ICU nurses have smaller caseloads than other nurses. That's because the needs of those patients are higher. I'm fine with kids with high needs, but then I need more support to support those kids. Parents should want me to have the supports I'm asking for because it's in the best interest of those with special needs and those without.

Saying you need more support to manage behavioral issues in students with high needs is reasonable. Saying you need ways to punish them is not.