What is the real reason MCPS uses Lottery for Middle School Magnet Program

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just realized. Does the school system realize that if the children outside of the Magnet program outperform the Magnet kids by a significant factor, how that will be perceived by college admission boards? That would be exceptionally embarrassing, especially to the kids within the program.

Do you really think that today all Magnet kids outperform all of their peers? There are really gifted kids at no Magnet schools who for whatever reason aren’t in Magnets but still kick a$$ on tests, grades, AP, etc and go to top colleges. The Magnet is a very specific track for kids who want that track. It’s purpose shouldn’t be to create a cadre of kids who “outperform” other kids. … unless you want the county to inky invest in the Magnet and throw other kids the scraps, which it sounds like many of these crazed posters infuriated about the lottery do.

I do not know if they perform better or worse but how do you know to be sure? Why not MCPS release data for parents to see? What is their to hide?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The programs used to look for kids who were true outliers. Now we seem to think that the top 25% are outliers and need special programs. If we want to have a program for the top 25% in can be in every school. No need for any lottery based magnet. It is compact math + a high reading group + enrichment.

Yep, these programs as we knew them are no more...

I know right? We cannot game the system anymore.
Oh well, time to move to VA

May be the games just started at MCPS lowering the standards for all

Or maybe the county is tired of the enormous investment of time, money, and resources dedicated to programs that are demanded by and largely for wealthy whites people. Maybe they are interested in simplifying the process to A) root out bias in selection for these programs and B) expand by a tiny bit the group from which students are pulled into the magnet.

You want your kid to be in an “elite” environment where only the top 1% get in - apply to Sidwell or Maret. Stop using the public schools as a means to suck resources out for a tiny percentage of the population who already tend to be privileged children. As a tax payer I’m happy to see the magnet lottery and glad to see some equity brought to the equation of these programs.

The CES and magnet programs were dominated by Asians who took a 40% hit in acceptance rates when they switched to the home school method a few years ago. So much for your tirade against whites.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just realized. Does the school system realize that if the children outside of the Magnet program outperform the Magnet kids by a significant factor, how that will be perceived by college admission boards? That would be exceptionally embarrassing, especially to the kids within the program.

Do you really think that today all Magnet kids outperform all of their peers? There are really gifted kids at no Magnet schools who for whatever reason aren’t in Magnets but still kick a$$ on tests, grades, AP, etc and go to top colleges. The Magnet is a very specific track for kids who want that track. It’s purpose shouldn’t be to create a cadre of kids who “outperform” other kids. … unless you want the county to inky invest in the Magnet and throw other kids the scraps, which it sounds like many of these crazed posters infuriated about the lottery do.

Thread is about how lottery system and random selection of some students over others help fully meet the needs of all kids. May be you are reading too much into what people post on this thread. Do you have anything to contribute?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The programs used to look for kids who were true outliers. Now we seem to think that the top 25% are outliers and need special programs. If we want to have a program for the top 25% in can be in every school. No need for any lottery based magnet. It is compact math + a high reading group + enrichment.

Yep, these programs as we knew them are no more...

I know right? We cannot game the system anymore.
Oh well, time to move to VA

May be the games just started at MCPS lowering the standards for all

Or maybe the county is tired of the enormous investment of time, money, and resources dedicated to programs that are demanded by and largely for wealthy whites people. Maybe they are interested in simplifying the process to A) root out bias in selection for these programs and B) expand by a tiny bit the group from which students are pulled into the magnet.

You want your kid to be in an “elite” environment where only the top 1% get in - apply to Sidwell or Maret. Stop using the public schools as a means to suck resources out for a tiny percentage of the population who already tend to be privileged children. As a tax payer I’m happy to see the magnet lottery and glad to see some equity brought to the equation of these programs.

The CES and magnet programs were dominated by Asians who took a 40% hit in acceptance rates when they switched to the home school method a few years ago. So much for your tirade against whites.

Some on this thread always look at everything in life through the lens of race unfortunately. They continuously bring up race and feel really good when some of the students are put at a disadvantage to benefit others. They find satisfaction and miss the larger picture ie; futue of the nation and our responsibility as a society to support every kid in what they do best to help them reach their potential.

[Anonymous]

With more than 160,000 students I imagine MCPS has a WHOLE LOT MORE on its plate than this. Using the oft repeated "99%" standard it sounds like this ENDLESS debate is about MAYBE 1600 of students? Less than half of 1% of the students MCPS works with?

One of these mornings or afternoons go and watch a county school bus load and unload a dozen SEVERELY SEVERELY SEVERELY handicapped children in wheelchairs.
Watch the county feed kids that don't get enoughto eat at home.
Watch them graduate kids whose parents are in jail or dead and manage to get some of them into college

Then drive home and

Hug your child because you can
Feed your child another healthy meal
Kick or throw a ball around with them because they can control their limbs

And hopefully... Hopefully... HOPEFULLY.... experience a moment of peace because you are blessed

[Anonymous]

As someone who works in equity and education policy, I was supportive of the changes MCPS made 3-4 years ago, even though those changes made it harder for my own kids to access the MS magnets.

With that said, the newest changes are really terrible, both in terms of equity and in terms of serving the needs of children who learn differently.

Getting rid of the CoGAT is maybe the worst possible decision from an equity perspective. CoGAT was one of the only ways to find kids who had aptitude but not exposure to the material. By screening the lottery by grades and MAPs, MCPS is essentially gatekeeping for kids with involved parents who expose them to above-grade-level material.

Moreover, a lottery that is not accompanied by accelerated programming at home schools is poisonous for kids who actually NEED differentiated/accelerated instruction in order to remain engaged in school. There are kids who in fact learn differently, and up until now MCPS seemed to be willing to do the work to find those kids (which includes kids from URM groups whose aptitude was not always apparent from grades and MAP scores).

Basically, this is a mess and the folks in charge should be ashamed of themselves.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:With more than 160,000 students I imagine MCPS has a WHOLE LOT MORE on its plate than this. Using the oft repeated "99%" standard it sounds like this ENDLESS debate is about MAYBE 1600 of students? Less than half of 1% of the students MCPS works with?

One of these mornings or afternoons go and watch a county school bus load and unload a dozen SEVERELY SEVERELY SEVERELY handicapped children in wheelchairs.
Watch the county feed kids that don't get enoughto eat at home.
Watch them graduate kids whose parents are in jail or dead and manage to get some of them into college

Then drive home and

Hug your child because you can
Feed your child another healthy meal
Kick or throw a ball around with them because they can control their limbs

And hopefully... Hopefully... HOPEFULLY.... experience a moment of peace because you are blessed

Ok. so you will ingnore the needs of 1600 kids just because you have more kids in the school system? If you are tired, perhaps, time for you to step away from the thread. your intention to discourage others from discussing this important topic, which by the way will have significant impact on future generations to come, is very apparent.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As someone who works in equity and education policy, I was supportive of the changes MCPS made 3-4 years ago, even though those changes made it harder for my own kids to access the MS magnets.

With that said, the newest changes are really terrible, both in terms of equity and in terms of serving the needs of children who learn differently.

Getting rid of the CoGAT is maybe the worst possible decision from an equity perspective. CoGAT was one of the only ways to find kids who had aptitude but not exposure to the material. By screening the lottery by grades and MAPs, MCPS is essentially gatekeeping for kids with involved parents who expose them to above-grade-level material.

Moreover, a lottery that is not accompanied by accelerated programming at home schools is poisonous for kids who actually NEED differentiated/accelerated instruction in order to remain engaged in school. There are kids who in fact learn differently, and up until now MCPS seemed to be willing to do the work to find those kids (which includes kids from URM groups whose aptitude was not always apparent from grades and MAP scores).

Basically, this is a mess and the folks in charge should be ashamed of themselves.

How does random picking of kids through lottery address any of the issues you stated above? There is no objectivity and transparency in the process. This looks like an effort and process designed to disadvantage some students and promote others lowering the entire standard of education. This will only provide psychological satisfaction to some segments and fail to meet any objectives including equity by the way. Without solid programs at all levels to meet the needs of students, MCPS is merely creating an appearance of equity in classrooms but not equity in academic performance shaping the future.

Bigger question is does any of the BOE members have their kids in MCPS system now? if not, then they are sitting their making decisions which will not impact their own kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone who works in equity and education policy, I was supportive of the changes MCPS made 3-4 years ago, even though those changes made it harder for my own kids to access the MS magnets.

With that said, the newest changes are really terrible, both in terms of equity and in terms of serving the needs of children who learn differently.

Getting rid of the CoGAT is maybe the worst possible decision from an equity perspective. CoGAT was one of the only ways to find kids who had aptitude but not exposure to the material. By screening the lottery by grades and MAPs, MCPS is essentially gatekeeping for kids with involved parents who expose them to above-grade-level material.

Moreover, a lottery that is not accompanied by accelerated programming at home schools is poisonous for kids who actually NEED differentiated/accelerated instruction in order to remain engaged in school. There are kids who in fact learn differently, and up until now MCPS seemed to be willing to do the work to find those kids (which includes kids from URM groups whose aptitude was not always apparent from grades and MAP scores).

Basically, this is a mess and the folks in charge should be ashamed of themselves.

How does random picking of kids through lottery address any of the issues you stated above? There is no objectivity and transparency in the process. This looks like an effort and process designed to disadvantage some students and promote others lowering the entire standard of education. This will only provide psychological satisfaction to some segments and fail to meet any objectives including equity by the way. Without solid programs at all levels to meet the needs of students, MCPS is merely creating an appearance of equity in classrooms but not equity in academic performance shaping the future.

Bigger question is does any of the BOE members have their kids in MCPS system now? if not, then they are sitting their making decisions which will not impact their own kids.

PP here. That's my point. The PREVIOUS changes (dropping the at home essay, getting rid of teacher recommendations and consideration of extracurriculars) was good. Getting rid of CoGAT and moving to a lottery is bad. It's bad on an equity axis, and bad on a meeting the needs of gifted kids axis.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone who works in equity and education policy, I was supportive of the changes MCPS made 3-4 years ago, even though those changes made it harder for my own kids to access the MS magnets.

With that said, the newest changes are really terrible, both in terms of equity and in terms of serving the needs of children who learn differently.

Getting rid of the CoGAT is maybe the worst possible decision from an equity perspective. CoGAT was one of the only ways to find kids who had aptitude but not exposure to the material. By screening the lottery by grades and MAPs, MCPS is essentially gatekeeping for kids with involved parents who expose them to above-grade-level material.

Moreover, a lottery that is not accompanied by accelerated programming at home schools is poisonous for kids who actually NEED differentiated/accelerated instruction in order to remain engaged in school. There are kids who in fact learn differently, and up until now MCPS seemed to be willing to do the work to find those kids (which includes kids from URM groups whose aptitude was not always apparent from grades and MAP scores).

Basically, this is a mess and the folks in charge should be ashamed of themselves.

How does random picking of kids through lottery address any of the issues you stated above? There is no objectivity and transparency in the process. This looks like an effort and process designed to disadvantage some students and promote others lowering the entire standard of education. This will only provide psychological satisfaction to some segments and fail to meet any objectives including equity by the way. Without solid programs at all levels to meet the needs of students, MCPS is merely creating an appearance of equity in classrooms but not equity in academic performance shaping the future.

Bigger question is does any of the BOE members have their kids in MCPS system now? if not, then they are sitting their making decisions which will not impact their own kids.

PP here. That's my point. The PREVIOUS changes (dropping the at home essay, getting rid of teacher recommendations and consideration of extracurriculars) was good. Getting rid of CoGAT and moving to a lottery is bad. It's bad on an equity axis, and bad on a meeting the needs of gifted kids axis.

Thank you! Your prospective is really valuable and several of parents that we talk to are now seriously considering private schools as an option so that kids can focus on academic work and not worry about MCPS BOE theatrics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With more than 160,000 students I imagine MCPS has a WHOLE LOT MORE on its plate than this. Using the oft repeated "99%" standard it sounds like this ENDLESS debate is about MAYBE 1600 of students? Less than half of 1% of the students MCPS works with?

One of these mornings or afternoons go and watch a county school bus load and unload a dozen SEVERELY SEVERELY SEVERELY handicapped children in wheelchairs.
Watch the county feed kids that don't get enoughto eat at home.
Watch them graduate kids whose parents are in jail or dead and manage to get some of them into college

Then drive home and

Hug your child because you can
Feed your child another healthy meal
Kick or throw a ball around with them because they can control their limbs

And hopefully... Hopefully... HOPEFULLY.... experience a moment of peace because you are blessed

Ok. so you will ingnore the needs of 1600 kids just because you have more kids in the school system? If you are tired, perhaps, time for you to step away from the thread. your intention to discourage others from discussing this important topic, which by the way will have significant impact on future generations to come, is very apparent.

DP - " The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few"

[Anonymous]

This thread is a self licking ice cream cone.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:With more than 160,000 students I imagine MCPS has a WHOLE LOT MORE on its plate than this. Using the oft repeated "99%" standard it sounds like this ENDLESS debate is about MAYBE 1600 of students? Less than half of 1% of the students MCPS works with?

One of these mornings or afternoons go and watch a county school bus load and unload a dozen SEVERELY SEVERELY SEVERELY handicapped children in wheelchairs.
Watch the county feed kids that don't get enoughto eat at home.
Watch them graduate kids whose parents are in jail or dead and manage to get some of them into college

Then drive home and

Hug your child because you can
Feed your child another healthy meal
Kick or throw a ball around with them because they can control their limbs

And hopefully... Hopefully... HOPEFULLY.... experience a moment of peace because you are blessed

Ok. so you will ingnore the needs of 1600 kids just because you have more kids in the school system? If you are tired, perhaps, time for you to step away from the thread. your intention to discourage others from discussing this important topic, which by the way will have significant impact on future generations to come, is very apparent.

DP - " The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few"

ISn't MCPS BOE suppose to make decisions to meet the needs of all students? So are they making decisions based on the number of students? What happened to no child left behind? You seems to don't care.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This thread is a self licking ice cream cone.

Another troll trying to discourage people from discussing important topic that effects future generation. You are free to step away from this thread though.

[Anonymous]

No one is addressing the point that the county resorted to lottery because of covid (and therefore no Cogats). The point we should be addressing is when they'll get back to using Cogats. I don't think they'll do it in the spring, but they could do it starting the 2022-2023 school year.