Why would you buy a high-end gas car now?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are you under the impression that the electricity just wills its way in to existence?

+1000

When you plug in your smugmobile, where do you think the power comes from? Unicorns?

When you wash your shiny smugwagon, what do you think powered the plants that created the shiny space doors?

When you enjoy “fart mode” in your smugsedan, what do you think is powering the cloud storage for all the tech that lets your car engage in flatulence for your own entertainment?

p.s. I’m an concerned about climate change as anyone, and I try to do my part. But PART of my part is learning what helps and what’s hype. Right now…you fell for the hype, and you’re being smug about being duped.

No, sorry, you're wrong. Obviously, electricity needs to be generated, and that comes with an emissions cost. But per mile driven, even accounting for that, electric cars are emitting less than gas cars. They're emitting even less if you're charging off solar panels at your house, as a lot of EV owners are. And the electric grid can get cleaner and cleaner; gas cars are not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Whatever the naysayers argue, electric cars will replace the gas cars in the next 5-10 years, that is taking over 50% of the car sales market. Everyone can have their own reasoning, rage anxiety, being fond of noise etc., whatever floats your boat. But the truth is electric cars are better, higher performance and to a degree cheaper (total cost of ownership).

It’s pretty clear where things are going regarding cars. If I were to buy a car today, unless I will hold it for over 10 years, I’d go electric just so it doesn’t depreciate in value considerably.

Agree with this post if you had said next 20-30 years.

When the change to electric will happen it will be very fast. Think about how fast people switched to smart phones, it only took a few years.

US electric vehicle market share is 2.5%

Norway electric vehicle market share 10 years ago was 1.6%, today it is over 90%.

Only because the tax on gas powered cars is like 100% in Norway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Whatever the naysayers argue, electric cars will replace the gas cars in the next 5-10 years, that is taking over 50% of the car sales market. Everyone can have their own reasoning, rage anxiety, being fond of noise etc., whatever floats your boat. But the truth is electric cars are better, higher performance and to a degree cheaper (total cost of ownership).

It’s pretty clear where things are going regarding cars. If I were to buy a car today, unless I will hold it for over 10 years, I’d go electric just so it doesn’t depreciate in value considerably.

Agree with this post if you had said next 20-30 years.

When the change to electric will happen it will be very fast. Think about how fast people switched to smart phones, it only took a few years.

US electric vehicle market share is 2.5%

Norway electric vehicle market share 10 years ago was 1.6%, today it is over 90%.

Only because the tax on gas powered cars is like 100% in Norway.

How about:
European Union: 10%
China : 6%


Any doublt it only goes up from here? how soon till its 50%?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are getting ready to buy a Porsche. The car it is replacing is 10 years old and wont last until the EVs come out (2023 at the earliest). And we regularly drive 500 miles to our 2nd home (doing it again in 2 weeks) so we need at least 1 gas or hybrid car to make that drive without having the worry about recharging. I think they are projecting that the EV Macan will have a range around 200 miles. I sat in a Taycan recently and it was not comfortable, nor is the design practical for us to haul things.

We do plan to get a EV for a second car when that car needs to be replaced.

Do you regularly make a 500-mile drive in your gas car without having to stop to refuel? Where is your vacation home? I'd bet there's a very convenient way to charge it on the way there.

Refueling takes 5 minutes. And we can actually make it 500 miles on a full tank, although we usually have to stop once to go to the bathroom. A 200 mile range means 2 recharging stops, and normally we don't stop for more than 10-15 minutes total in a trip.

The fast charging stations only take like 10-15 minutes to charge your car fully. So 5 minutes would charge it partially.

Yeah, you don’t need to charge to full, just charge enough to get you to the next place where you’ll charge (so either the next fast charging station or home). We drove our EV to New York recently. Stopped once to charge on the way there, for 18 minutes. Stopped twice on the way home to charge, for 20 and 22 minutes. Plugged it in when we got home, and it was ready to go the next morning with a full “tank.” Can’t do that with our gas car, which now mostly just sits at home.

Lots of cars can go to New York and back without stopping to refuel or recharge. https://www.cars.com/articles/top-10-vehicles-with-the-longest-driving-range-1420698377103/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Whatever the naysayers argue, electric cars will replace the gas cars in the next 5-10 years, that is taking over 50% of the car sales market. Everyone can have their own reasoning, rage anxiety, being fond of noise etc., whatever floats your boat. But the truth is electric cars are better, higher performance and to a degree cheaper (total cost of ownership).

It’s pretty clear where things are going regarding cars. If I were to buy a car today, unless I will hold it for over 10 years, I’d go electric just so it doesn’t depreciate in value considerably.

I just bought a Toyota hybrid. My hybrid might be a dinosaur in 5 years, but your electric car will be too since tech is changing so rapidly.

I don't think depreciation is a great argument for buying electric right now. I think you buy what works for your own situation and hope for the best.

Why hope if you can make an daycares estimate. Depreciation matters if you want to sell the car after 5 years and get a new car see this example
Tesla 3, $35k, depreciation 35%.
Prius, $25k, depreciation 50%.

You lost about the same amount in depreciation after 5 years, but I am betting the cost of maintenance and fuel was higher for the Prius. On top of that you used a luxury car with the Tesla with a lot of features and not a very nice car for the Prius, which is quite ugly and doesn’t drive that well.

Of course you need to consider other costs like insurance, taxes, rebates, etc, maintenance and so on, so say you are about to buy a new car.

I would choose a bare bones Tesla 3 over a Prius any day (and I have). I think it’s hard to make an argument for a Prius under these conditions.
It’s even harder to make the same argument for a BMW, Mercedes, Lexus or Audi, which is why Tesla is absolutely clobbering them in the small/medium luxury segment.

So Tesla doesn’t directly compete exactly with Prius on the cost, but it does compete for the same customers and typically wins them over. If you check which cars are the most traded in for a Tesla, that’s Honda, Toyota and Ford, plus the luxury brand I mentioned before.

I didn’t buy a Prius. I bought a 2-year-old Toyota Avalon hybrid limited. And I love it. I’m guessing whoever traded it in bought a Tesla, but I felt more comfortable with the reliability of a Toyota—and we do a ton of long road trips. I guess since I bought used (and not luxury) this thread isn’t really about me. I just know that aside from Tesla, electric cars do see some pretty significant depreciation. It was a factor for me when I was car shopping.

I used to buy a lot of cars that were 2 year old from rental fleets. Still, I’d guess a new Avalon is not that much of a better deal comparable with a Tesla 3 or Y.

I think the reliability of Tesla is as good as any. I’ve had Toyotas, Mazda, Hyundai, and Teslas, used them up to 10 years. Anecdotal Toyota was the worst because I had to change the shocks, by the time I sold the second Toyota there were some metal shavings in the oil bath that I couldn’t figure the cause, nothing on the rest. I was taking care with regular maintenance: oil, filters, breakers, tires. This maintenance is 0 for Tesla and about $2k a year for the other brands. Also, interacting with the Tesla dealership is a pleasure, while for Toyota I hated it, they always try to sell you stuff, recall things etc. at Tesla even when they Gad to upgrade the car computer, they gave me a Uber voucher to move around.

We’ve had a great experience with all our Toyotas. I’d never buy from a rental fleet though. Anyway, my only point was that people are assessing their individual needs. I care very much about the environment but also have a kid who plays travel hockey,. We have to be able to leave on Saturday morning and be back Sunday night and not take long stops to charge or we’d be getting back super late. My car was $29k and a Tesla long range of similar vintage would have been $43k. We could have bought a big suv but I wanted to get good gas mileage. This car gets 45mpg so we can get to most places without stopping at all. So this was our choice. Everyone has a huge range of individual needs. When we replace our other car, it will be electric.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Yeah, you don’t need to charge to full, just charge enough to get you to the next place where you’ll charge (so either the next fast charging station or home). We drove our EV to New York recently. Stopped once to charge on the way there, for 18 minutes. Stopped twice on the way home to charge, for 20 and 22 minutes. Plugged it in when we got home, and it was ready to go the next morning with a full “tank.” Can’t do that with our gas car, which now mostly just sits at home.

Lots of cars can go to New York and back without stopping to refuel or recharge. https://www.cars.com/articles/top-10-vehicles-with-the-longest-driving-range-1420698377103/

True, but I meant we can't refuel the gas car at home. (But the gas car also can't get to New York and back without stopping for gas, it has a 10-gallon tank and gets about 35 mpg on the highway; it's 10 years old.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Whatever the naysayers argue, electric cars will replace the gas cars in the next 5-10 years, that is taking over 50% of the car sales market. Everyone can have their own reasoning, rage anxiety, being fond of noise etc., whatever floats your boat. But the truth is electric cars are better, higher performance and to a degree cheaper (total cost of ownership).

It’s pretty clear where things are going regarding cars. If I were to buy a car today, unless I will hold it for over 10 years, I’d go electric just so it doesn’t depreciate in value considerably.

I just bought a Toyota hybrid. My hybrid might be a dinosaur in 5 years, but your electric car will be too since tech is changing so rapidly.

I don't think depreciation is a great argument for buying electric right now. I think you buy what works for your own situation and hope for the best.

Why hope if you can make an daycares estimate. Depreciation matters if you want to sell the car after 5 years and get a new car see this example
Tesla 3, $35k, depreciation 35%.
Prius, $25k, depreciation 50%.

You lost about the same amount in depreciation after 5 years, but I am betting the cost of maintenance and fuel was higher for the Prius. On top of that you used a luxury car with the Tesla with a lot of features and not a very nice car for the Prius, which is quite ugly and doesn’t drive that well.

Of course you need to consider other costs like insurance, taxes, rebates, etc, maintenance and so on, so say you are about to buy a new car.

I would choose a bare bones Tesla 3 over a Prius any day (and I have). I think it’s hard to make an argument for a Prius under these conditions.
It’s even harder to make the same argument for a BMW, Mercedes, Lexus or Audi, which is why Tesla is absolutely clobbering them in the small/medium luxury segment.

So Tesla doesn’t directly compete exactly with Prius on the cost, but it does compete for the same customers and typically wins them over. If you check which cars are the most traded in for a Tesla, that’s Honda, Toyota and Ford, plus the luxury brand I mentioned before.

I didn’t buy a Prius. I bought a 2-year-old Toyota Avalon hybrid limited. And I love it. I’m guessing whoever traded it in bought a Tesla, but I felt more comfortable with the reliability of a Toyota—and we do a ton of long road trips. I guess since I bought used (and not luxury) this thread isn’t really about me. I just know that aside from Tesla, electric cars do see some pretty significant depreciation. It was a factor for me when I was car shopping.

I used to buy a lot of cars that were 2 year old from rental fleets. Still, I’d guess a new Avalon is not that much of a better deal comparable with a Tesla 3 or Y.

I think the reliability of Tesla is as good as any. I’ve had Toyotas, Mazda, Hyundai, and Teslas, used them up to 10 years. Anecdotal Toyota was the worst because I had to change the shocks, by the time I sold the second Toyota there were some metal shavings in the oil bath that I couldn’t figure the cause, nothing on the rest. I was taking care with regular maintenance: oil, filters, breakers, tires. This maintenance is 0 for Tesla and about $2k a year for the other brands. Also, interacting with the Tesla dealership is a pleasure, while for Toyota I hated it, they always try to sell you stuff, recall things etc. at Tesla even when they Gad to upgrade the car computer, they gave me a Uber voucher to move around.

We’ve had a great experience with all our Toyotas. I’d never buy from a rental fleet though. Anyway, my only point was that people are assessing their individual needs. I care very much about the environment but also have a kid who plays travel hockey,. We have to be able to leave on Saturday morning and be back Sunday night and not take long stops to charge or we’d be getting back super late. My car was $29k and a Tesla long range of similar vintage would have been $43k. We could have bought a big suv but I wanted to get good gas mileage. This car gets 45mpg so we can get to most places without stopping at all. So this was our choice. Everyone has a huge range of individual needs. When we replace our other car, it will be electric.

Of course buy what you like.

The point of this discussion is that a lot of the arguments that people bring as an advantage of gas cars are not necessarily so.
Time to charge on a trip: 30 min on a 400 mile trip, it really is insignificant as you’d need to stop or eating, restroom, stretching.
Cost: if you’ll do a calculations for your total cost of ownership, I bet your 29k gas car will cost more than a 35k Tesla 3.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Whatever the naysayers argue, electric cars will replace the gas cars in the next 5-10 years, that is taking over 50% of the car sales market. Everyone can have their own reasoning, rage anxiety, being fond of noise etc., whatever floats your boat. But the truth is electric cars are better, higher performance and to a degree cheaper (total cost of ownership).

It’s pretty clear where things are going regarding cars. If I were to buy a car today, unless I will hold it for over 10 years, I’d go electric just so it doesn’t depreciate in value considerably.

I just bought a Toyota hybrid. My hybrid might be a dinosaur in 5 years, but your electric car will be too since tech is changing so rapidly.

I don't think depreciation is a great argument for buying electric right now. I think you buy what works for your own situation and hope for the best.

Why hope if you can make an daycares estimate. Depreciation matters if you want to sell the car after 5 years and get a new car see this example
Tesla 3, $35k, depreciation 35%.
Prius, $25k, depreciation 50%.

You lost about the same amount in depreciation after 5 years, but I am betting the cost of maintenance and fuel was higher for the Prius. On top of that you used a luxury car with the Tesla with a lot of features and not a very nice car for the Prius, which is quite ugly and doesn’t drive that well.

Of course you need to consider other costs like insurance, taxes, rebates, etc, maintenance and so on, so say you are about to buy a new car.

I would choose a bare bones Tesla 3 over a Prius any day (and I have). I think it’s hard to make an argument for a Prius under these conditions.
It’s even harder to make the same argument for a BMW, Mercedes, Lexus or Audi, which is why Tesla is absolutely clobbering them in the small/medium luxury segment.

So Tesla doesn’t directly compete exactly with Prius on the cost, but it does compete for the same customers and typically wins them over. If you check which cars are the most traded in for a Tesla, that’s Honda, Toyota and Ford, plus the luxury brand I mentioned before.

I didn’t buy a Prius. I bought a 2-year-old Toyota Avalon hybrid limited. And I love it. I’m guessing whoever traded it in bought a Tesla, but I felt more comfortable with the reliability of a Toyota—and we do a ton of long road trips. I guess since I bought used (and not luxury) this thread isn’t really about me. I just know that aside from Tesla, electric cars do see some pretty significant depreciation. It was a factor for me when I was car shopping.

I used to buy a lot of cars that were 2 year old from rental fleets. Still, I’d guess a new Avalon is not that much of a better deal comparable with a Tesla 3 or Y.

I think the reliability of Tesla is as good as any. I’ve had Toyotas, Mazda, Hyundai, and Teslas, used them up to 10 years. Anecdotal Toyota was the worst because I had to change the shocks, by the time I sold the second Toyota there were some metal shavings in the oil bath that I couldn’t figure the cause, nothing on the rest. I was taking care with regular maintenance: oil, filters, breakers, tires. This maintenance is 0 for Tesla and about $2k a year for the other brands. Also, interacting with the Tesla dealership is a pleasure, while for Toyota I hated it, they always try to sell you stuff, recall things etc. at Tesla even when they Gad to upgrade the car computer, they gave me a Uber voucher to move around.

We’ve had a great experience with all our Toyotas. I’d never buy from a rental fleet though. Anyway, my only point was that people are assessing their individual needs. I care very much about the environment but also have a kid who plays travel hockey,. We have to be able to leave on Saturday morning and be back Sunday night and not take long stops to charge or we’d be getting back super late. My car was $29k and a Tesla long range of similar vintage would have been $43k. We could have bought a big suv but I wanted to get good gas mileage. This car gets 45mpg so we can get to most places without stopping at all. So this was our choice. Everyone has a huge range of individual needs. When we replace our other car, it will be electric.

Of course buy what you like.

The point of this discussion is that a lot of the arguments that people bring as an advantage of gas cars are not necessarily so.
Time to charge on a trip: 30 min on a 400 mile trip, it really is insignificant as you’d need to stop or eating, restroom, stretching.
Cost: if you’ll do a calculations for your total cost of ownership, I bet your 29k gas car will cost more than a 35k Tesla 3.

I just do not want an electric car. Even if they did everything you said. You do you.

[Anonymous]

Glad we all agree that choice is good. Do whatever you want with your money. Other people on the thread want to hear an informative perspective. You do you too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Glad we all agree that choice is good. Do whatever you want with your money. Other people on the thread want to hear an informative perspective. You do you too.

Shhhhhhh. You are undermining 3/4's of the posts on this site.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sure I think about climate change -- and we have gax taxes presumably to cover tha[i][u]t.

Do you think about climate change of using so much electricity? In MD, 20% of electricity comes from burning coal, and another 40% from natural gas:
https://www.pepco.com/MyAccount/MyBillUsage/Documents/Pepco%20MD%20Enviro%20Fuel%20Mix%20Insert_11.20_ADA.pdf

Only 5.8% of electricity comes from renewable sources.

Your inaccurate assumption highlighted above demolishes the rest of your point.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Whatever the naysayers argue, electric cars will replace the gas cars in the next 5-10 years, that is taking over 50% of the car sales market. Everyone can have their own reasoning, rage anxiety, being fond of noise etc., whatever floats your boat. But the truth is electric cars are better, higher performance and to a degree cheaper (total cost of ownership).

It’s pretty clear where things are going regarding cars. If I were to buy a car today, unless I will hold it for over 10 years, I’d go electric just so it doesn’t depreciate in value considerably.

Virtually all r&d money in the auto industry is in electrification and autonomous driving. No engineering teams are working on the next better gas engine.

I agree. But to the OP's question; today's gas powered cars benefit from over a century of development and the experience of building hundreds of millions of vehicles. A new Mercedes Benz or Lexus or Kia is pretty amazing and will run for hundreds of thousands of miles with basic maintenance. For the foreseeable future, there will be plenty of places to buy gas and get it fixed. You don't have to learn or adapt to anything new in terms of putting energy (gasoline) into your car.

Today, one can argue the difference in quality and performance between gas and electric models. In five years, it will not be close. All the resources are being poured into electric vehicles.

Bottom line: if you like gas-powered cars, "now" might be the best time to buy!

Most people voting with their money choose Tesla over Lexus or Mercedes. The time to buy a high end gas car has passed.

Really? More Teslas are sold than Lexus or Mercedes? Not even close.

It’s actually a lot closer than you realize. Tesla sells almost as many cars as Mercedes and they have far fewer models to choose from.

For 2020, looks like Tesla actually sold more cars than Mercedes (292,000 vs. 274,000), but Mercedes also sold a bunch of passenger vans. Lexus sold 249,000 cars in 2020, so Tesla is already beating that.

There are a lot of Teslas around. More and more every day but I can't help shake the fact that just about everyone I know that has one (and there are a lot) is a complete A'hole. That use to be other cars but they have all migrated to a Tesla. Not sure what that says.

[Anonymous]

You people claiming the demise of gas engine is imminent are wrong. Did Apple kill the mechanical watch? I think there’s always going to be a desire for gas cars.

I also don’t understand what the world does with all the used batteries once these electric cars are obsolete? Sounds like a highly toxic mess?

[Anonymous]

My parents have a hybrid and it’s a nightmare because the battery dies all the time unless you drive it multiple times a week. Now the battery needs to be replaced and it’s two thousand dollars!! No thanks.

[Anonymous]

If we want to continue to exist on this planet, gas engines will need to go away and we’ll need clean electricity.

Obviously we can’t all switch over at once, but any role that we can play in moving this all along is great. Tesla owners being asshooes or whatever really isn’t a great way to pick a car.