5yo hit and killed in Brookland last night

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread is disgusting. If you knew this family you wouldn’t be making all these assumptions. This is a local family, many of us know them and their little girl. They lost their only child and you are here blaming them so you can feel Better with yourself. I hope that the family never see this thread. Have some empathy.

But also have some empathy for the driver —who police think did nothing wrong and will probably be haunted the rest of his life. We had a family friend who committed suicide a year after hitting a toddler who farted into the street. He was cleared legally, but couldn’t forget the sights and sounds.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread is disgusting. If you knew this family you wouldn’t be making all these assumptions. This is a local family, many of us know them and their little girl. They lost their only child and you are here blaming them so you can feel Better with yourself. I hope that the family never see this thread. Have some empathy.

But also have some empathy for the driver —who police think did nothing wrong and will probably be haunted the rest of his life. We had a family friend who committed suicide a year after hitting a toddler who farted into the street. He was cleared legally, but couldn’t forget the sights and sounds.

+1

I also feel sorry for all involved.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a very careful driver, but the one time I almost hit a child was while driving a van. It is up very high and children can actually be well below the dashboard. In my case, a child ran around the back of their parked car while the mother was getting a sibling out of the other side. I slammed on the brakes instantly. The child fell, but I hadn’t hit him. He was just startled. He was crying and I was crying. The mom was very shaken, too, but emphasized it wasn’t my fault. It was a long time before I felt comfortable restarting the van and leaving the scene.

Then maybe ordinary consumer use of vans and other vehicles that put drivers high above the street should probably be illegal.

Not the PP, but I have a vivid memory of my next door neighbor running out into the street from between 2 cars. He was tiny, and there was a van driving down the street and the single reason my neighbor didn't get killed is because my dad screamed, "STOP STOP" and the van slammed on the breaks. Their window was open and they heard my dad. They didn't see the kid, but they stopped JUST in time. They got out and it took a long time for them to leave. My neighbor was completely fine - he was 4ish and didn't understand what happened. The adults were all terrified and shaken.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This problem with this thread is that (some of) the people are commenting are airing their grievances on bike safety, others are fighting for car/bike friendly policies.

Some of us are neighbors. Brookland is close knit and small. Almost all new Moms have a cohort in a new Mom group that meets at places like Sidamo (past), MSM, in the grass at TT, in the kids section at Barnes and Noble and more.

We also know the streets. We know that people FLY through the neighborhood, especially on Monroe, Newton, Franklin, 14th, Michigan and Otis. Everyone has a story of a close call. We've advocated for Safe Street, speed bumps.

We know that there's bad blind Hill by Bunker Hill Park. And across from MMBDA at Irving.

We know this might have been an "accident" and might have been a "tragedy" but that doesn't matter to this family

And we are heartbroken that if we didn't know this family, we know their faces and their child.

So again, take your armchair commentary to fairfaxunderground and let the family grieve. If you can't give grace to adults, give it to kindergartners who have been with her, some since they were born, some since they entered a new school in PK3.

I hope you work hard with DDOT and your ANC to get traffic calming. I’m so sorry for this family.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A five year old on a scooter or bike should be on the sidewalk or right next to a parent. Unless the van was driving on the sidewalk, I don't know why you would assume it was the driver's fault.

The child was in a crosswalk. There's no way for a driver to kill her unless they ran the stop sign. Even if the child got out ahead of her parents, an attentive driver who stopped at the sign would STILL have been able to stop.

That’s so obviously untrue. Have you really never once see a kid <5 yrs blast into the road (crosswalk) without stopping?? You know, barreling at a good clip down the ADA sidewalk ramp? Scooters are the most common method of this but I also see balance bikes and just plain running full bore.

Yes. Drivers need to to yield. Always. If you cannot reasonably see a thing to *yield to* though, it makes it pretty hard. Even at 5 mph

A 42” tall child fast approaching from your right if you’re in a tall van at dusk-darkness is almost impossible to see.

Peace to her family

I agree this is how accidents happen with biking/scooting on the sidewalk. But this does not exonerate cars that whip around corners without stopping. If the van had come to a full stop before turning, the girl would not be dead.

Why don't you read the accounts of the incident before spouting such stupid sh!t?

Because initial police reports of bike/ped accidents are notorious for being wrong and letting the driver off. And because I don’t believe that the vehicle could have accelerated that quickly if they came to a full stop; and if it did floor it through the intersection after stopping, that is equally reckless. And drivers need to look both ways before driving thru crosswalks.

Sometimes everyone is doing their best and terrible things still happen. I highly doubt that you come to a complete 5 second stop and look both ways at Every Single Intersection. As drivers, we are conditioned to look for adult pedestrians moving at a predictable pace, which is why cyclists/power scooters using the sidewalk can be so dangerous. The same goes for a child moving quickly/unpredictably on a bike at dusk.

drivers need to look to see if anyone is entering the crosswalk before barrelling through. It’s not hard.

Once again, no one was “barreling through.” Read the police report. It’s not hard.

The police report is “preliminary” and the reports almost always exonerate drivers ex ante unless there’s video evidence against them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A five year old on a scooter or bike should be on the sidewalk or right next to a parent. Unless the van was driving on the sidewalk, I don't know why you would assume it was the driver's fault.

The child was in a crosswalk. There's no way for a driver to kill her unless they ran the stop sign. Even if the child got out ahead of her parents, an attentive driver who stopped at the sign would STILL have been able to stop.

That’s so obviously untrue. Have you really never once see a kid <5 yrs blast into the road (crosswalk) without stopping?? You know, barreling at a good clip down the ADA sidewalk ramp? Scooters are the most common method of this but I also see balance bikes and just plain running full bore.

Yes. Drivers need to to yield. Always. If you cannot reasonably see a thing to *yield to* though, it makes it pretty hard. Even at 5 mph

A 42” tall child fast approaching from your right if you’re in a tall van at dusk-darkness is almost impossible to see.

Peace to her family

I agree this is how accidents happen with biking/scooting on the sidewalk. But this does not exonerate cars that whip around corners without stopping. If the van had come to a full stop before turning, the girl would not be dead.

Why don't you read the accounts of the incident before spouting such stupid sh!t?

Because initial police reports of bike/ped accidents are notorious for being wrong and letting the driver off. And because I don’t believe that the vehicle could have accelerated that quickly if they came to a full stop; and if it did floor it through the intersection after stopping, that is equally reckless. And drivers need to look both ways before driving thru crosswalks.

Sometimes everyone is doing their best and terrible things still happen. I highly doubt that you come to a complete 5 second stop and look both ways at Every Single Intersection. As drivers, we are conditioned to look for adult pedestrians moving at a predictable pace, which is why cyclists/power scooters using the sidewalk can be so dangerous. The same goes for a child moving quickly/unpredictably on a bike at dusk.

drivers need to look to see if anyone is entering the crosswalk before barrelling through. It’s not hard.

Once again, no one was “barreling through.” Read the police report. It’s not hard.

The police report is “preliminary” and the reports almost always exonerate drivers ex ante unless there’s video evidence against them.

As they should. The driver has a reasonable expectation that cyclists will be following the rules of the road.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A five year old on a scooter or bike should be on the sidewalk or right next to a parent. Unless the van was driving on the sidewalk, I don't know why you would assume it was the driver's fault.

The child was in a crosswalk. There's no way for a driver to kill her unless they ran the stop sign. Even if the child got out ahead of her parents, an attentive driver who stopped at the sign would STILL have been able to stop.

That’s so obviously untrue. Have you really never once see a kid <5 yrs blast into the road (crosswalk) without stopping?? You know, barreling at a good clip down the ADA sidewalk ramp? Scooters are the most common method of this but I also see balance bikes and just plain running full bore.

Yes. Drivers need to to yield. Always. If you cannot reasonably see a thing to *yield to* though, it makes it pretty hard. Even at 5 mph

A 42” tall child fast approaching from your right if you’re in a tall van at dusk-darkness is almost impossible to see.

Peace to her family

I agree this is how accidents happen with biking/scooting on the sidewalk. But this does not exonerate cars that whip around corners without stopping. If the van had come to a full stop before turning, the girl would not be dead.

Why don't you read the accounts of the incident before spouting such stupid sh!t?

Because initial police reports of bike/ped accidents are notorious for being wrong and letting the driver off. And because I don’t believe that the vehicle could have accelerated that quickly if they came to a full stop; and if it did floor it through the intersection after stopping, that is equally reckless. And drivers need to look both ways before driving thru crosswalks.

Sometimes everyone is doing their best and terrible things still happen. I highly doubt that you come to a complete 5 second stop and look both ways at Every Single Intersection. As drivers, we are conditioned to look for adult pedestrians moving at a predictable pace, which is why cyclists/power scooters using the sidewalk can be so dangerous. The same goes for a child moving quickly/unpredictably on a bike at dusk.

drivers need to look to see if anyone is entering the crosswalk before barrelling through. It’s not hard.

Once again, no one was “barreling through.” Read the police report. It’s not hard.

The police report is “preliminary” and the reports almost always exonerate drivers ex ante unless there’s video evidence against them.

I don't know about video, but there were multiple witnesses who saw it happen, including one who did CPR on the child.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread is disgusting. If you knew this family you wouldn’t be making all these assumptions. This is a local family, many of us know them and their little girl. They lost their only child and you are here blaming them so you can feel Better with yourself. I hope that the family never see this thread. Have some empathy.

But also have some empathy for the driver —who police think did nothing wrong and will probably be haunted the rest of his life. We had a family friend who committed suicide a year after hitting a toddler who farted into the street. He was cleared legally, but couldn’t forget the sights and sounds.

goddam autocorrect.

[Anonymous]

This is so tragic.

I hope that everyone remembers this when they are tempted to text or mess with their phone while driving. So many parents do this at school drop off. Kid out of the car then pull up something on the phone while pulling out into the traffic lane. Reminder that a split second of inattention can end a life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A five year old on a scooter or bike should be on the sidewalk or right next to a parent. Unless the van was driving on the sidewalk, I don't know why you would assume it was the driver's fault.

The child was in a crosswalk. There's no way for a driver to kill her unless they ran the stop sign. Even if the child got out ahead of her parents, an attentive driver who stopped at the sign would STILL have been able to stop.

That’s so obviously untrue. Have you really never once see a kid <5 yrs blast into the road (crosswalk) without stopping?? You know, barreling at a good clip down the ADA sidewalk ramp? Scooters are the most common method of this but I also see balance bikes and just plain running full bore.

Yes. Drivers need to to yield. Always. If you cannot reasonably see a thing to *yield to* though, it makes it pretty hard. Even at 5 mph

A 42” tall child fast approaching from your right if you’re in a tall van at dusk-darkness is almost impossible to see.

Peace to her family

I agree this is how accidents happen with biking/scooting on the sidewalk. But this does not exonerate cars that whip around corners without stopping. If the van had come to a full stop before turning, the girl would not be dead.

Why don't you read the accounts of the incident before spouting such stupid sh!t?

Because initial police reports of bike/ped accidents are notorious for being wrong and letting the driver off. And because I don’t believe that the vehicle could have accelerated that quickly if they came to a full stop; and if it did floor it through the intersection after stopping, that is equally reckless. And drivers need to look both ways before driving thru crosswalks.

Sometimes everyone is doing their best and terrible things still happen. I highly doubt that you come to a complete 5 second stop and look both ways at Every Single Intersection. As drivers, we are conditioned to look for adult pedestrians moving at a predictable pace, which is why cyclists/power scooters using the sidewalk can be so dangerous. The same goes for a child moving quickly/unpredictably on a bike at dusk.

drivers need to look to see if anyone is entering the crosswalk before barrelling through. It’s not hard.

Once again, no one was “barreling through.” Read the police report. It’s not hard.

The police report is “preliminary” and the reports almost always exonerate drivers ex ante unless there’s video evidence against them.

As they should. The driver has a reasonable expectation that cyclists will be following the rules of the road.

what? no. drivers don’t have a presumption of no-fault.

[Anonymous]

Gofundme shared by a family friend: https://www.gofundme.com/f/ygkq9h-support-for-the-hart-family

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A five year old on a scooter or bike should be on the sidewalk or right next to a parent. Unless the van was driving on the sidewalk, I don't know why you would assume it was the driver's fault.

The child was in a crosswalk. There's no way for a driver to kill her unless they ran the stop sign. Even if the child got out ahead of her parents, an attentive driver who stopped at the sign would STILL have been able to stop.

That’s so obviously untrue. Have you really never once see a kid <5 yrs blast into the road (crosswalk) without stopping?? You know, barreling at a good clip down the ADA sidewalk ramp? Scooters are the most common method of this but I also see balance bikes and just plain running full bore.

Yes. Drivers need to to yield. Always. If you cannot reasonably see a thing to *yield to* though, it makes it pretty hard. Even at 5 mph

A 42” tall child fast approaching from your right if you’re in a tall van at dusk-darkness is almost impossible to see.

Peace to her family

I agree this is how accidents happen with biking/scooting on the sidewalk. But this does not exonerate cars that whip around corners without stopping. If the van had come to a full stop before turning, the girl would not be dead.

Why don't you read the accounts of the incident before spouting such stupid sh!t?

Because initial police reports of bike/ped accidents are notorious for being wrong and letting the driver off. And because I don’t believe that the vehicle could have accelerated that quickly if they came to a full stop; and if it did floor it through the intersection after stopping, that is equally reckless. And drivers need to look both ways before driving thru crosswalks.

Translation: Because I prefer to believe that the facts that are true are different than those reported, because they suit my preconceived notions. And because I don't have a good grasp of physics.

translation: you have no understanding of the nature of pedestrians/bikers being killed by drivers, which fit predictable patterns. the van should not have been going more than 10mph thru the crosswalk, and a fatality at that speed would be very very rare.

So you have decided, not having been there, about how this happened, not based on any evidence, but because because of "predictable patterns," rather than accept the facts as reported by people that actually were there? As I said, you prefer to believe alternative facts because they fit your preferred narrative. Basically, you are the same as an election denying MAGAite. Congratulations, I guess.

My guess is as good as that police report, yes. And it’s very probable that the van must have been going too fast through the crosswalk. 10 mph would not have killed her. Pedestrian deaths are way up in the US due to reckless driving and poor design. Not sure why I should assume otherwise here.

The speed limit is 10 mph?

you aren’t authorized to drive the speed limit at all times. drivers need to cross intersections very slowly in residential areas - especially when making turns. no, 10mph isn’t guaranteed to save all lives but would go a long way.

You want cars to slow down yo 20 mph at every intersection even if they have a green light. That’s insane.

No, I want them to go slower than 20 mph if they are crossing a crosswalk where peds have the right of way. 20 mph is the speed limit.

+1
My city has lowered the speed limit in all residential neighborhoods to 25, purely for safety. People get in their tanks and drive like there are no consequences. I’m not saying the driver who hit this child was driving like that (and my prayers are with both the family of the child and the driver; this is absolute nightmare fuel and why I drive way more grandma than I do Indy) but in general, people tend to act like they’re in their own responsibility-deflecting machine and can act however the duck they want.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This thread is disgusting. If you knew this family you wouldn’t be making all these assumptions. This is a local family, many of us know them and their little girl. They lost their only child and you are here blaming them so you can feel Better with yourself. I hope that the family never see this thread. Have some empathy.

+1 million. The special interest advocates who are using this as an opportunity to push for change need to stop and give this family some respect and all of us some space to grieve. Stop making this unthinkable tragedy about you. Absolutely disgusting and extremely upsetting. There is a time and a place for pushing for needed changes and this is not it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A five year old on a scooter or bike should be on the sidewalk or right next to a parent. Unless the van was driving on the sidewalk, I don't know why you would assume it was the driver's fault.

exactly right. Less of these events would happen if we taught pedestrians to be defensive more because the cars don’t fall out of the sky. One is in a vehicle so it’s up to you to be more vigilant. You can be right and dead at the same time.
I see way to many distracted pedestrians putting their faith the driver doing the right thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A five year old on a scooter or bike should be on the sidewalk or right next to a parent. Unless the van was driving on the sidewalk, I don't know why you would assume it was the driver's fault.

Of course it is the driver's fault. Don't be an idiot.

Pedestrian accidents are rarely the drivers fault.

True. Pedestrians still have to make sure cars come to a full stop