New OPM memo on RTO

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not the PP, but I personally work with Feds who do play Pickleball and do other workout stuff during telework.

And what do you think that means? Do you know their exact work hours/restrictions/total time clocked on the day you saw them playing? IF you see a time card that says they were working when they were not working, then you can talk.

+1. Even if they were out there at 10 am, PP has no idea what are core hours, what hours they flexed etc. Maybe they were getting in hours in the middle of the night ffs. I've certainly done that when I can’t sleep. And really, it's no different than having a dr appt and flexing hours around that instead of taking leave.

The general public doesn't view people surfing or playing pickleball during working hours favorably.

Complain all you want but everyone with half a brain and no vested interest in telework knows that it isn't acceptable behavior.

No evidence that this is a widespread phenomenon, or even something that actually happened. Try again.

Which is it?

Half the posters here talk about how they or their SO go and run errands everyday during telework and the other half claims it doesn't happen and everyone is working during core hours.

Obviously people are doing it and idgaf if they worked 60 hours, if you’re a public servant you don’t go surfing at 10am on a Tuesday. If you want to do that go find a private employer who is ok with it. These firings can’t happen quicker.

Where’s the proof this is happening

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not the PP, but I personally work with Feds who do play Pickleball and do other workout stuff during telework.

I worked with people in the office who used to regularly take 60-90 minutes to go to the gym or go for a run during “lunch.” This isn’t a telework issue.

I would also occasionally run an errand or, you know, go out to lunch during lunch, or go for a walk on a nice day when I worked in the office. Being chained to your computer is not a TW requirement.

Mostly DOD feds I know are the ones exercising during the day.

Yes - they have the ability to do this and it's approved 100%. They have to do it during the day. A lot agencies don't allow employees to stop working early to get their workout in.

Correct. They’ve had this flexibility for many years. Wish all agencies did.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not the PP, but I personally work with Feds who do play Pickleball and do other workout stuff during telework.

And what do you think that means? Do you know their exact work hours/restrictions/total time clocked on the day you saw them playing? IF you see a time card that says they were working when they were not working, then you can talk.

+1. Even if they were out there at 10 am, PP has no idea what are core hours, what hours they flexed etc. Maybe they were getting in hours in the middle of the night ffs. I've certainly done that when I can’t sleep. And really, it's no different than having a dr appt and flexing hours around that instead of taking leave.

The general public doesn't view people surfing or playing pickleball during working hours favorably.

Complain all you want but everyone with half a brain and no vested interest in telework knows that it isn't acceptable behavior.

No evidence that this is a widespread phenomenon, or even something that actually happened. Try again.

Which is it?

Half the posters here talk about how they or their SO go and run errands everyday during telework and the other half claims it doesn't happen and everyone is working during core hours.

Obviously people are doing it and idgaf if they worked 60 hours, if you’re a public servant you don’t go surfing at 10am on a Tuesday. If you want to do that go find a private employer who is ok with it. These firings can’t happen quicker.

Where’s the proof this is happening

Should start with DoD. They are the ones who get to exercise on work time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not the PP, but I personally work with Feds who do play Pickleball and do other workout stuff during telework.

And what do you think that means? Do you know their exact work hours/restrictions/total time clocked on the day you saw them playing? IF you see a time card that says they were working when they were not working, then you can talk.

+1. Even if they were out there at 10 am, PP has no idea what are core hours, what hours they flexed etc. Maybe they were getting in hours in the middle of the night ffs. I've certainly done that when I can’t sleep. And really, it's no different than having a dr appt and flexing hours around that instead of taking leave.

The general public doesn't view people surfing or playing pickleball during working hours favorably.

Complain all you want but everyone with half a brain and no vested interest in telework knows that it isn't acceptable behavior.

No evidence that this is a widespread phenomenon, or even something that actually happened. Try again.

Which is it?

Half the posters here talk about how they or their SO go and run errands everyday during telework and the other half claims it doesn't happen and everyone is working during core hours.

Obviously people are doing it and idgaf if they worked 60 hours, if you’re a public servant you don’t go surfing at 10am on a Tuesday. If you want to do that go find a private employer who is ok with it. These firings can’t happen quicker.

Where’s the proof this is happening

Should start with DoD. They are the ones who get to exercise on work time.

So you have no proof of the surfing friends in Hawaii. Thanks for confirming.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not the PP, but I personally work with Feds who do play Pickleball and do other workout stuff during telework.

And what do you think that means? Do you know their exact work hours/restrictions/total time clocked on the day you saw them playing? IF you see a time card that says they were working when they were not working, then you can talk.

+1. Even if they were out there at 10 am, PP has no idea what are core hours, what hours they flexed etc. Maybe they were getting in hours in the middle of the night ffs. I've certainly done that when I can’t sleep. And really, it's no different than having a dr appt and flexing hours around that instead of taking leave.

The general public doesn't view people surfing or playing pickleball during working hours favorably.

Complain all you want but everyone with half a brain and no vested interest in telework knows that it isn't acceptable behavior.

No evidence that this is a widespread phenomenon, or even something that actually happened. Try again.

Which is it?

Half the posters here talk about how they or their SO go and run errands everyday during telework and the other half claims it doesn't happen and everyone is working during core hours.

Obviously people are doing it and idgaf if they worked 60 hours, if you’re a public servant you don’t go surfing at 10am on a Tuesday. If you want to do that go find a private employer who is ok with it. These firings can’t happen quicker.

Where’s the proof this is happening

Should start with DoD. They are the ones who get to exercise on work time.

I used to have this at a different job. It was 3 hours a week, recorded on my time card, and I had to fill out an exercise plan explaining what I would be doing. Supervisor signed off. Approval could be revoked, and also I was expected to skip it when we had a hot deadline.

People are following the rules. Not their fault you don't like the rules.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not the PP, but I personally work with Feds who do play Pickleball and do other workout stuff during telework.

And what do you think that means? Do you know their exact work hours/restrictions/total time clocked on the day you saw them playing? IF you see a time card that says they were working when they were not working, then you can talk.

+1. Even if they were out there at 10 am, PP has no idea what are core hours, what hours they flexed etc. Maybe they were getting in hours in the middle of the night ffs. I've certainly done that when I can’t sleep. And really, it's no different than having a dr appt and flexing hours around that instead of taking leave.

The general public doesn't view people surfing or playing pickleball during working hours favorably.

Complain all you want but everyone with half a brain and no vested interest in telework knows that it isn't acceptable behavior.

No evidence that this is a widespread phenomenon, or even something that actually happened. Try again.

Which is it?

Half the posters here talk about how they or their SO go and run errands everyday during telework and the other half claims it doesn't happen and everyone is working during core hours.

Obviously people are doing it and idgaf if they worked 60 hours, if you’re a public servant you don’t go surfing at 10am on a Tuesday. If you want to do that go find a private employer who is ok with it. These firings can’t happen quicker.

Where’s the proof this is happening

Should start with DoD. They are the ones who get to exercise on work time.

I used to have this at a different job. It was 3 hours a week, recorded on my time card, and I had to fill out an exercise plan explaining what I would be doing. Supervisor signed off. Approval could be revoked, and also I was expected to skip it when we had a hot deadline.

People are following the rules. Not their fault you don't like the rules.

It may not be their fault, but it’s about to become their problem.

[Anonymous]

wtf is up with you? Are Feds criminals or something? Like is the next step shipping then off to the gulags? I have had a really great career helping people who truly appreciate my service. Promoting a false image of do nothing public servants, and using them as scapegoats will backfire when the public that benefits from their work suddenly realizes things aren’t getting better, and are actually getting worse. Seems silly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not the PP, but I personally work with Feds who do play Pickleball and do other workout stuff during telework.

And what do you think that means? Do you know their exact work hours/restrictions/total time clocked on the day you saw them playing? IF you see a time card that says they were working when they were not working, then you can talk.

+1. Even if they were out there at 10 am, PP has no idea what are core hours, what hours they flexed etc. Maybe they were getting in hours in the middle of the night ffs. I've certainly done that when I can’t sleep. And really, it's no different than having a dr appt and flexing hours around that instead of taking leave.

The general public doesn't view people surfing or playing pickleball during working hours favorably.

Complain all you want but everyone with half a brain and no vested interest in telework knows that it isn't acceptable behavior.

No evidence that this is a widespread phenomenon, or even something that actually happened. Try again.

Which is it?

Half the posters here talk about how they or their SO go and run errands everyday during telework and the other half claims it doesn't happen and everyone is working during core hours.

Obviously people are doing it and idgaf if they worked 60 hours, if you’re a public servant you don’t go surfing at 10am on a Tuesday. If you want to do that go find a private employer who is ok with it. These firings can’t happen quicker.

Where’s the proof this is happening

Should start with DoD. They are the ones who get to exercise on work time.

DoD operates on very different shifts. Shipyards open at 6 AM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:wtf is up with you? Are Feds criminals or something? Like is the next step shipping then off to the gulags? I have had a really great career helping people who truly appreciate my service. Promoting a false image of do nothing public servants, and using them as scapegoats will backfire when the public that benefits from their work suddenly realizes things aren’t getting better, and are actually getting worse. Seems silly.

Yes. Voting against their own interests and turning those who help them into the enemy.
I think critical thinking is sorely lacking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not the PP, but I personally work with Feds who do play Pickleball and do other workout stuff during telework.

And what do you think that means? Do you know their exact work hours/restrictions/total time clocked on the day you saw them playing? IF you see a time card that says they were working when they were not working, then you can talk.

+1. Even if they were out there at 10 am, PP has no idea what are core hours, what hours they flexed etc. Maybe they were getting in hours in the middle of the night ffs. I've certainly done that when I can’t sleep. And really, it's no different than having a dr appt and flexing hours around that instead of taking leave.

The general public doesn't view people surfing or playing pickleball during working hours favorably.

Complain all you want but everyone with half a brain and no vested interest in telework knows that it isn't acceptable behavior.

No evidence that this is a widespread phenomenon, or even something that actually happened. Try again.

Which is it?

Half the posters here talk about how they or their SO go and run errands everyday during telework and the other half claims it doesn't happen and everyone is working during core hours.

Obviously people are doing it and idgaf if they worked 60 hours, if you’re a public servant you don’t go surfing at 10am on a Tuesday. If you want to do that go find a private employer who is ok with it. These firings can’t happen quicker.

Where’s the proof this is happening

Should start with DoD. They are the ones who get to exercise on work time.

ANY agency with a flexible work schedule option -like mine- will allow you to work out "during work time" so long as you make up that time. Why is this a problem?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not the PP, but I personally work with Feds who do play Pickleball and do other workout stuff during telework.

And what do you think that means? Do you know their exact work hours/restrictions/total time clocked on the day you saw them playing? IF you see a time card that says they were working when they were not working, then you can talk.

+1. Even if they were out there at 10 am, PP has no idea what are core hours, what hours they flexed etc. Maybe they were getting in hours in the middle of the night ffs. I've certainly done that when I can’t sleep. And really, it's no different than having a dr appt and flexing hours around that instead of taking leave.

The general public doesn't view people surfing or playing pickleball during working hours favorably.

Complain all you want but everyone with half a brain and no vested interest in telework knows that it isn't acceptable behavior.

No evidence that this is a widespread phenomenon, or even something that actually happened. Try again.

Which is it?

Half the posters here talk about how they or their SO go and run errands everyday during telework and the other half claims it doesn't happen and everyone is working during core hours.

Obviously people are doing it and idgaf if they worked 60 hours, if you’re a public servant you don’t go surfing at 10am on a Tuesday. If you want to do that go find a private employer who is ok with it. These firings can’t happen quicker.

Wah wah wah. "I can't have flexibility so NOBODY can!" says PP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not the PP, but I personally work with Feds who do play Pickleball and do other workout stuff during telework.

And what do you think that means? Do you know their exact work hours/restrictions/total time clocked on the day you saw them playing? IF you see a time card that says they were working when they were not working, then you can talk.

+1. Even if they were out there at 10 am, PP has no idea what are core hours, what hours they flexed etc. Maybe they were getting in hours in the middle of the night ffs. I've certainly done that when I can’t sleep. And really, it's no different than having a dr appt and flexing hours around that instead of taking leave.

The general public doesn't view people surfing or playing pickleball during working hours favorably.

Complain all you want but everyone with half a brain and no vested interest in telework knows that it isn't acceptable behavior.

No evidence that this is a widespread phenomenon, or even something that actually happened. Try again.

Which is it?

Half the posters here talk about how they or their SO go and run errands everyday during telework and the other half claims it doesn't happen and everyone is working during core hours.

Obviously people are doing it and idgaf if they worked 60 hours, if you’re a public servant you don’t go surfing at 10am on a Tuesday. If you want to do that go find a private employer who is ok with it. These firings can’t happen quicker.

Where’s the proof this is happening

Should start with DoD. They are the ones who get to exercise on work time.

ANY agency with a flexible work schedule option -like mine- will allow you to work out "during work time" so long as you make up that time. Why is this a problem?

Because some bad faith Twitter user might take a picture of it and trick the rubes into thinking Feds spend 8 hours a day at the pool. And that’s very upsetting for those people! It doesn’t matter if what they believe is untrue. You need to be chained to your desk so they feel better.

[Anonymous]

Fellow feds - stop defending bad actors.

We can all agree that telework as benefits but we need to draw a line in the sand somewhere when it comes to being good stewards of tax dollars. Defending surfing or running errands or playing sports at 1000 on a workday is unacceptable and you will never get support from the public or politicians as long as you think it is ok. Going to the gym at your worksite or in your garage is not the same thing as checking off the computer to go enjoy some leisure time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m in the office 5 days a week. Not a fed. The transition is hard but then you will get used to it. And you may even like it. Nothing beats in person interactions. Parents these days are over involved in their kids lives any way. Do you really have to be at every single class event in elementary school. Or every single soccer game?

Do you have a stay at home spouse?

There are many dual Fed families around here, telework and schedule flexibility is a key part of how our lives makes any sense at all. In my household both parents have hour plus commutes. We have to stagger our schedules so that we’re really never home together at the same time during the week because of this. It’s a terrible way to live and raise a family.

NP but that’s par for the course for a dual income couple with young kids. We’ve never had quality adult time in the mornings and afternoons. Actually the dual Fed couples we know are better off than those of us in private bc they rarely log in at night, so they can watch movies together or chat while doing housework after the kids go to sleep.

“Rarely log in at night”. Ok now this thread is just silly.

Right??? I’m a fed manager, please remind me of the last time I didn’t work after hours.

And no it’s not par for the course at all. Most workplaces have some telework and flexibility. It’s not 1995 FFS

True but you also aren’t an hourly employee. You’re a well-paid salaried manager, with good benefits. In the private sector those types of positions often work beyond their official 40 hours, uncompensated.

and they get paid more than OP does and have access to telework.

It’s a complete Russel Vought sadistic fantasy that feds are uniquely bad teleworkers. EVERY high level knowledge job allows (or requires) work from home. Every single one.

So then, go ahead and apply to the private sector. If you all are as amazing as you claim, you will get snatched up

Some will some won’t, since there aren’t enough private firms to absorb all of the workforce in DC. Some of us will move to other cities, some of us will start our own business consulting, etc. none of that’s good for the American people. The best will leave if they can’t have some flexibility. Do you want that? And why?

The best people tend to be mission driven and resilient. Unlikely they will leave so quickly. The best people tend to be focused on the big picture and the long game. They can endure a rocky 4 years. Everyone is replaceable even if we like to think we aren’t. Many young college graduates are chomping at the bit to replace older folk. A wave of retirements might be a boost to the under thirty crowd

It's always been incredibly difficult to recruit recent grads. Tech companies pay much better than the government does. Even universities pay better.

The tech companies are RTO and many are doing RTO to reduce numbers/forced quitting and hiring freezes. There are not as many jobs as people think.

They have in-person requirements, but not 5 days/week. And there are some fully remote positions, too.

This. The norm is 3-4 days RTO for maybe 6 hours each day (with more work in the evening at home, of course). If the government tries to mandate 8.5 hours in-office, that will impose more hardship than 5 days/week for a lot of people.

Amazon is 5 days, Meta varies but is mostly hybrid, and most other tech companies are at least 4 days for revenue generating/product functions with 2-3 days being more the norm for non-revenue generating functions. I would push back on 6 hours being standard though. 9-5 is standard. Someone would be looked askance at if they were in the office from 9-3 everyday and eventually there manager would have a “read the room” discussion with them. That said, I have colleagues in the Bay Area who were told they could be remote when they started so now that they are expected to come in there is more flexibility to leave early, especially with Bay Area traffic.

I think the gap between telework vs RTO that is being discussed is that at the moment, it isn’t clear what the basic telework policy is. E.g., for PP with calls to staff in Asia, is it acceptable to work in the office but then to handle the late night/early morning call from home?

I suspect that most non-hourly workers in the government, at least at higher levels, do work more than 40 hours a week when necessary unless their cintract specifically forbids it. Isn’t the question for many whether no telework literally means no working from another non-office location vs, you work regular office hours but are allowed to connect to work remotely when you have out of normal hours work such as supporting offices in other time zones or you have already worked your normal hours and intend to work additional hours at night or the weekend and would prefer to do it from home?

I know very few white collar workers who are not allowed, even encouraged, to work from home in circumstances such as the above. While I am not a fed, the very poor wording of the documents that have been shared has created unnecessary confusion and concern.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Fellow feds - stop defending bad actors.

We can all agree that telework as benefits but we need to draw a line in the sand somewhere when it comes to being good stewards of tax dollars. Defending surfing or running errands or playing sports at 1000 on a workday is unacceptable and you will never get support from the public or politicians as long as you think it is ok. Going to the gym at your worksite or in your garage is not the same thing as checking off the computer to go enjoy some leisure time.

No one in this thread makes the policies. We don’t have to do anything.