Why is Math the Super Accelerated Subject?

[Anonymous]

Does anyone know of any podcasts or opinion pieces on this topic? I find it both fascinating, and, as the parent of a bright kid who loves science but is much more talented in other subjects, frustrating.

I have this in the college section, as we hear again and again kids need to "max rigor" to be competitive for top colleges.

But max rigor in your humanities are freshmen level courses (AP English, APUSH) that any reasonably hard working stem kid could do if they were so motivated. Back in my day, hitting AP Calc AB was the top possible path for 99% of kids in math. But now, AP Calc BC is the new AB and, there are a ton of kids hitting that level in 11th or even 10th grade.

What's unique about math that makes this possible? And, how does it make sense that to max rigor in math and math alone, you need to be on an accelerated pathway from middle school.

I'm totally a STEM person who graduated high school in the early 90's, so I find this change both fascinating and baffling and wonder what people more plugged in than me have to say about it.

(My kid, on the other hand, is only now coming into her own in math and science. After a rough start, she is loving honors pre calc and AP Bio as a junior. But she will realistically "only" get into AB next year even though she will graduate with a dozen AP's and is planning to apply as a humanities major so she is a competitive candidate)

[Anonymous]

Math teachers are asking this too. Anyone who tried to take an AP English class as a freshman would be laughed at, but we are pushing AP math to that level. No one would try to skip Spanish 2 and go from 1 to 3, but everyone tries to skip prealgebra and jump to algebra 1 earlier.

I don’t know why we are only accelerating one subject.

[Anonymous]

Because it is the one subject where the ed policy trend folks have not been able to deny that pure ability coupled with hard study is actually at the core. Everything else they can dumb down and decelerate by redefining outcomes. They try with math (see SF) but seem to have failed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Math teachers are asking this too. Anyone who tried to take an AP English class as a freshman would be laughed at, but we are pushing AP math to that level. No one would try to skip Spanish 2 and go from 1 to 3, but everyone tries to skip prealgebra and jump to algebra 1 earlier.

I don’t know why we are only accelerating one subject.

I think the opposite is true - some kids are ready for AP English much earlier and could accelerate in language studies too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know of any podcasts or opinion pieces on this topic? I find it both fascinating, and, as the parent of a bright kid who loves science but is much more talented in other subjects, frustrating.

I have this in the college section, as we hear again and again kids need to "max rigor" to be competitive for top colleges.

But max rigor in your humanities are freshmen level courses (AP English, APUSH) that any reasonably hard working stem kid could do if they were so motivated. Back in my day, hitting AP Calc AB was the top possible path for 99% of kids in math. But now, AP Calc BC is the new AB and, there are a ton of kids hitting that level in 11th or even 10th grade.

What's unique about math that makes this possible? And, how does it make sense that to max rigor in math and math alone, you need to be on an accelerated pathway from middle school.

I'm totally a STEM person who graduated high school in the early 90's, so I find this change both fascinating and baffling and wonder what people more plugged in than me have to say about it.

(My kid, on the other hand, is only now coming into her own in math and science. After a rough start, she is loving honors pre calc and AP Bio as a junior. But she will realistically "only" get into AB next year even though she will graduate with a dozen AP's and is planning to apply as a humanities major so she is a competitive candidate)

Calc BC in 11th was the standard in my mid-90s HS for the “smart kids” - probably around 10-15 yearly.

[Anonymous]

I think some of it is that math is more linear.

Let's say that your school's 9th grade curriculum is early World History. It's not like a kid can be "finished" with that. There are adults with PhD's who are still finding things about World History to study and explore. Similarly, if your freshman English class is studying personal narratives, there is always more work to be done, always room for improvement. So, theoretically, even the very brightest kids can find ways to engage and grow in these topics. Acceleration makes less sense than enrichment.

But in math, there is a point at which there is no longer work on solving systems of linear equations that is meaningful. So, it makes sense to move on to the next thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone know of any podcasts or opinion pieces on this topic? I find it both fascinating, and, as the parent of a bright kid who loves science but is much more talented in other subjects, frustrating.

I have this in the college section, as we hear again and again kids need to "max rigor" to be competitive for top colleges.

But max rigor in your humanities are freshmen level courses (AP English, APUSH) that any reasonably hard working stem kid could do if they were so motivated. Back in my day, hitting AP Calc AB was the top possible path for 99% of kids in math. But now, AP Calc BC is the new AB and, there are a ton of kids hitting that level in 11th or even 10th grade.

What's unique about math that makes this possible? And, how does it make sense that to max rigor in math and math alone, you need to be on an accelerated pathway from middle school.

I'm totally a STEM person who graduated high school in the early 90's, so I find this change both fascinating and baffling and wonder what people more plugged in than me have to say about it.

(My kid, on the other hand, is only now coming into her own in math and science. After a rough start, she is loving honors pre calc and AP Bio as a junior. But she will realistically "only" get into AB next year even though she will graduate with a dozen AP's and is planning to apply as a humanities major so she is a competitive candidate)

I’m not sure what you find baffling? As smart as your daughter is, others are smarter than her in Math. The difference is that unlike in other subjects we still allow kids to accelerate to the max of their abilities in MS whereas every other subject has been painfully gutted. Likely because progress and ability in math is more objectively provable, and there a much stronger higher ed and economic need to teach math well. Otherwise no doubt about it, we would have a scenario where kids were not allowed to go beyond pre-algebra in MS.

[Anonymous]

1) Math is rules-based and therefore can be crammed.

2) Sophisticated written expression often depends on reading at an advanced level. Including archaic and ponderous books that are no longer mainstream. This is very time consuming and modern culture works against finding the time for it.

3) Jobs that involve more math in the job (or just higher math level attainment) tend to pay better so there's a reinforcement loop there.

4) Math is still associated with men doing well/specializing in it. So it has a little bit of patriarchal halo.

5) Calculus has evolved into an agreed component of the selective college application arms race. I believe sheer AP count is an equivalent phenomenon.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:1) Math is rules-based and therefore can be crammed.

2) Sophisticated written expression often depends on reading at an advanced level. Including archaic and ponderous books that are no longer mainstream. This is very time consuming and modern culture works against finding the time for it.

3) Jobs that involve more math in the job (or just higher math level attainment) tend to pay better so there's a reinforcement loop there.

4) Math is still associated with men doing well/specializing in it. So it has a little bit of patriarchal halo.

5) Calculus has evolved into an agreed component of the selective college application arms race. I believe sheer AP count is an equivalent phenomenon.

I agree with you about everything except 1. Lots of subjects have a lot of content that could be “crammed” (ie learned) but math is pretty much the only subject where it is still accepted that learning content matters and is a goal. Every other subject has been dumbed down to something akin to personal development goals. To wit the lack of spelling and grammar instruction and the increasing decline in any meaningful volume of reading and writing in humanities classes.

[Anonymous]

My kid is in AP Calc BC in 10th grade. If there was an accelerated pathway for writing, she'd take it. But she can't, because the electives aren't any better than AP Lang and AP Lit (taken respectively in 11th and 12th), so there's no point. The English curriculum in MCPS is really bad. Thank goodness she reads and writes for pleasure, at home. She's in all AP classes for other things like APUSH and AP Physics C. All of it is easy for her.

Math is the one discipline where logical and critical thinking skills are all you need. Maturity and social skills are not needed. If you think about it for half a second, you'll recognize that all other disciplines need some basic level of understanding of human relationships. Very young, immature people can do very well in math. It's truly for anyone with the patience to cogitate.

This is why math, above any other subject, has been prized by scholars over the centuries of human civilization.

[Anonymous]

It's an interesting question. Some kids undoubtedly pick up math more quickly and with better understanding. At the same time, a kids path to higher math classes starts young and I wonder if some very bright kids are not able to developmentally ready for higher math that young - but are capable as older teens and young adults of advanced math studies ...they are just starting behind a step (or more, these days). (The normal bright/smart kids...not the true math whizzes). I dont know the answer and I'm not against tracking, but I do wonder about the developmental aspect.

[Anonymous]

Pp, sorry wrote on my phone and so the writing is a little garbled!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Because it is the one subject where the ed policy trend folks have not been able to deny that pure ability coupled with hard study is actually at the core. Everything else they can dumb down and decelerate by redefining outcomes. They try with math (see SF) but seem to have failed.

Wasn't AP Calculus already a water-down version? How did SF district fail? Couldn't they just water it down further?

[Anonymous]

US is behind many countries in K-12 math education. Learning Calculus BC in 11th grade is considered accelerated here in the US but is merely normal in many part of the world. In contrast, differences in other, non-math subjects aren't so noticeable between US and those countries.

[Anonymous]

Math is more concrete so it is easier to measure whether you know it or not. The skills involved in other areas are more judgment-based.

I was super accelerated in HS in the early 90s. In 6th grade they put me and several others in a 7th grade math class. So we took Calc as juniors. That was very rare - in my very competitive suburban public HS where 30-40 kids went to Ivies each year, only about five of us per year were pushed ahead.

I think the obsession with accelerating kids has gone overboard. The kids are super accelerated and what does this get them when they get to college? Not much. The rush to take countless APs as early as possible is nuts. And it is not because your precious genius snowflake is bored and needs to be challenged more. There are different ways to challenge a child and admissions committees have gotten lazy and let APs be a way for them to measure that.

It is nice that an increasing number of private schools have pushed back at this and abandoned APs. And their kids still get into great schools, and not solely because of money and/or legacy status. I recognize that for some kids, it is a way to save money by getting credits and graduating early, but for many, it is a false badge of perceived intellect. There is no rush.

But I'm sure all of the tiger magnet school parents will bite my head off on this.