Midwife charged in DC? Karen Carr, CPM...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Was in the courtroom. Mom transferred at 38th weeks to KC. Mom was dead set on home birth. No guessing here. Mom was planning on a home birth even when her baby was head down. This mom had life trauma driving her decisions. That is the story. This is fact, as announced by prosecution. She sought out an experienced home birth midwife to attend her head down baby and her breech baby, despite knowing all the risks. This was not an innocent consumer. She came to all the providers involved with the informed choice of birthing her baby at home. End of story.

Whose head was down? The baby's? The above post does not make any sense.

Yes, sorry, baby was head down, or in the "right" position and then turned to breech. So, she sought home birth care when her baby was "head down" and then when baby changed and her home birth midwives told her that they don't do breech, she sought out OTHER home birth midwives to attend her.

[Anonymous]

Didn't this woman also have a doula? If it's true that the woman had an irrational fear of hospitals because of her mother's death, then her doula also failed her. Being a doula is not only about rubbing backs and holding legs. It's about helping mothers address fears that get in the way of a healthy birth and give them access to resources...like perinatal psychologists...to help them get through their fears. Very sad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

In response to the bolded area above, No , of course the EMT will not be able to magically unstick the poor baby. However, the EMT can start an IV, give oxygen to the mom and transfer the mom to the hospital immediately. THE EMT can notify the hospital to have resources available upon arrival.

How would any of that have helped the baby? The mom was not hemorrhaging or stroking out. Baby was stuck. No EMT could have fixed that. Karen Carr's resuscitation training and equipment is equal to that of an EMT...an ambu bag, oxygen tank, etc. I agree that 911 should have been called the minute baby wasn't born with the next push, but all they could have done once they got there is stand around and watch.

The mother needed an IV and O2 in preparation for EMERGENCY procedures done in a hospital. The EMT would have transported the mother to the HOSPITAL where attempts would have been made to surgically incise the cervix or take the baby by C-section. There was HOPE for that baby.

I think you are WILLFULLY trying to convince yourself that everything was done for that child. It wasn't .

And I think you are willfully trying to convince yourself that medical care would have saved the baby, because that is your particular philosophical foundation. In my opinion, cutting up the moms cervix would not have helped the baby and could have severely damaged the mom permanently. Zavanelli is extremely dangerous and only rarely produces a healthy mom and baby. Had she been in a hospital for this birth, I would bet that there would not even be a doctor who had ever seen or performed Zavanelli. Being at home, even if 911 were called the minute the baby was realized to be stuck (4 or 5 minutes in already), by the time they got her to the hospital and into an OR, it would have still been 20 minutes. No matter what, outcome would not have been good.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Didn't this woman also have a doula? If it's true that the woman had an irrational fear of hospitals because of her mother's death, then her doula also failed her. Being a doula is not only about rubbing backs and holding legs. It's about helping mothers address fears that get in the way of a healthy birth and give them access to resources...like perinatal psychologists...to help them get through their fears. Very sad.

You are kidding right? You must not be an experienced birth worker. There is no way a doula can help a mom erase a life trauma so that she can make different decisions. The role of the doula is to discuss fears and support the mother's informed decisions. Sometimes they even have to support the mother's uninformed decisons. Supporting her choice, continuity of care, emotional support....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Didn't this woman also have a doula? If it's true that the woman had an irrational fear of hospitals because of her mother's death, then her doula also failed her. Being a doula is not only about rubbing backs and holding legs. It's about helping mothers address fears that get in the way of a healthy birth and give them access to resources...like perinatal psychologists...to help them get through their fears. Very sad.

Who are YOU to say that this woman's fear was "irrational"? Many, many people have experienced first hand some pretty awful things at the hands of doctors, in hospitals. You have no right to claim that you know better than them, just how rational or irrational that fear may be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Didn't this woman also have a doula? If it's true that the woman had an irrational fear of hospitals because of her mother's death, then her doula also failed her. Being a doula is not only about rubbing backs and holding legs. It's about helping mothers address fears that get in the way of a healthy birth and give them access to resources...like perinatal psychologists...to help them get through their fears. Very sad.

You are kidding right? You must not be an experienced birth worker. There is no way a doula can help a mom erase a life trauma so that she can make different decisions. The role of the doula is to discuss fears and support the mother's informed decisions. Sometimes they even have to support the mother's uninformed decisons. Supporting her choice, continuity of care, emotional support....

Who says her fear is irrational? In this particular case, the mother was an informed consumer. She was not irrational. She weighed the odds and lost.

[Anonymous]

It sounds like she has needed therapy since her awful experience as a teenager. Shame she didn't get it sooner or her husband didn't come to his senses. So frustrated at their combined ignorance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It sounds like she has needed therapy since her awful experience as a teenager. Shame she didn't get it sooner or her husband didn't come to his senses. So frustrated at their combined ignorance.

So you have access to her records? How do you know she hasn't been in therapy for years?

[Anonymous]

Maybe she has been in therapy, but it obviously hasn't worked. Things happen in life. Get help to get over them and move on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Maybe she has been in therapy, but it obviously hasn't worked. Things happen in life. Get help to get over them and move on.

Ignorant statement at best. Do you think this mother will ever get over the death of her baby? Should she just get over it? Oh, right, therapy....

[Anonymous]

I'm not talking about the death of her baby. I'm talking about her teenage experience some 30 years ago.

http://www.panhala.net/Archive/The_Journey.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

In response to the bolded area above, No , of course the EMT will not be able to magically unstick the poor baby. However, the EMT can start an IV, give oxygen to the mom and transfer the mom to the hospital immediately. THE EMT can notify the hospital to have resources available upon arrival.

How would any of that have helped the baby? The mom was not hemorrhaging or stroking out. Baby was stuck. No EMT could have fixed that. Karen Carr's resuscitation training and equipment is equal to that of an EMT...an ambu bag, oxygen tank, etc. I agree that 911 should have been called the minute baby wasn't born with the next push, but all they could have done once they got there is stand around and watch.

The mother needed an IV and O2 in preparation for EMERGENCY procedures done in a hospital. The EMT would have transported the mother to the HOSPITAL where attempts would have been made to surgically incise the cervix or take the baby by C-section. There was HOPE for that baby.

I think you are WILLFULLY trying to convince yourself that everything was done for that child. It wasn't .

And I think you are willfully trying to convince yourself that medical care would have saved the baby, because that is your particular philosophical foundation. In my opinion, cutting up the moms cervix would not have helped the baby and could have severely damaged the mom permanently. Zavanelli is extremely dangerous and only rarely produces a healthy mom and baby. Had she been in a hospital for this birth, I would bet that there would not even be a doctor who had ever seen or performed Zavanelli. Being at home, even if 911 were called the minute the baby was realized to be stuck (4 or 5 minutes in already), by the time they got her to the hospital and into an OR, it would have still been 20 minutes. No matter what, outcome would not have been good.

Honestly curious here, what is your opinion based on? Professional experience, studies, anecdotal data?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm not talking about the death of her baby. I'm talking about her teenage experience some 30 years ago.

http://www.panhala.net/Archive/The_Journey.html

I know you were. I was just pointing out that some life trauma is big and that no amount of therapy or hiring a super-doula will produce the effect of "getting over it."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm not talking about the death of her baby. I'm talking about her teenage experience some 30 years ago.

http://www.panhala.net/Archive/The_Journey.html

Did the birth mother write that poem?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm not talking about the death of her baby. I'm talking about her teenage experience some 30 years ago.

http://www.panhala.net/Archive/The_Journey.html

Did the birth mother write that poem?

Yikes, just found out the poet was born in 1935 so obviously not the birth mother. What relevance does that poem have to this situation?