Admission process transparency

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It doesn’t matter in that it’s a private school that you are applying to that has the right to share however little or much it chooses. They are not receiving any kind of federal funds, so no disclosure requirement.

It would be great if they published data, but they don’t and they won’t. Because their class sizes are so much smaller than even the smallest college, data can be misleading as well.

In a nutshell, they feel like they are doing a good job of building classes. The parents agree enough to keep their kids in the schools. And prospective parents agree enough that most of them have many times the number of applications than they have spots. It’s working for the only constituencies that matter and is unlikely to change.

There are enough private schools to land somewhere. People get upset about being rejected from Sidwell, STA/NCS, GDS, Maret, Potomac, and the more competitive schools then want to demand transparency.

Go where your DC is wanted. Forget the rest

I agree with that. I am not requesting the right of admission, but the right of receiving information, by the way.

You don’t have "the right of receiving information"

Correct, which is why I'm requesting it. Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit I guess

You are requesting the right?

Yes

If you have rights, you don’t have to request them.

What are you asking for?

lol George Wallace has entered the chat

Do you request the right to free speech?

Yes - when it’s being infringed.

Wrong. You demand it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It doesn’t matter in that it’s a private school that you are applying to that has the right to share however little or much it chooses. They are not receiving any kind of federal funds, so no disclosure requirement.

It would be great if they published data, but they don’t and they won’t. Because their class sizes are so much smaller than even the smallest college, data can be misleading as well.

In a nutshell, they feel like they are doing a good job of building classes. The parents agree enough to keep their kids in the schools. And prospective parents agree enough that most of them have many times the number of applications than they have spots. It’s working for the only constituencies that matter and is unlikely to change.

There are enough private schools to land somewhere. People get upset about being rejected from Sidwell, STA/NCS, GDS, Maret, Potomac, and the more competitive schools then want to demand transparency.

Go where your DC is wanted. Forget the rest

I agree with that. I am not requesting the right of admission, but the right of receiving information, by the way.

You don’t have "the right of receiving information"

Correct, which is why I'm requesting it. Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit I guess

You are requesting the right?

Yes

If you have rights, you don’t have to request them.

What are you asking for?

lol George Wallace has entered the chat

Do you request the right to free speech?

Yes - when it’s being infringed.

Wrong. You demand it.

Potato potahto

[Anonymous]

In some ways Europe is at a more advanced stage than the US :

https://www.iiep.unesco.org/en/articles/european-countries-step-transparency-education-open-school-data-says-new-council-europe-and-iiep?utm_source=chatgpt.com

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:In some ways Europe is at a more advanced stage than the US :

https://www.iiep.unesco.org/en/articles/european-countries-step-transparency-education-open-school-data-says-new-council-europe-and-iiep?utm_source=chatgpt.com

Does this discuss private schools in Europe?

[Anonymous]

The process of apply to HS is not exhausting. Good grief, people have no idea what hardship really entails.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It doesn’t matter in that it’s a private school that you are applying to that has the right to share however little or much it chooses. They are not receiving any kind of federal funds, so no disclosure requirement.

It would be great if they published data, but they don’t and they won’t. Because their class sizes are so much smaller than even the smallest college, data can be misleading as well.

In a nutshell, they feel like they are doing a good job of building classes. The parents agree enough to keep their kids in the schools. And prospective parents agree enough that most of them have many times the number of applications than they have spots. It’s working for the only constituencies that matter and is unlikely to change.

That is true in theory, except that private schools receive significant tax exemptions. For example, non-profit organizations also receive tax exemptions, but in return they must publicly disclose data about their operations. Likewise, when you rent an apartment, the landlord cannot reject your application based on opaque reasons, and the applicant has the right to ask for and obtain information. How can anyone be protected against racial discrimination in school admissions if the system remains so opaque?

You have made these same comparisons before in other threads, many people have explained why they are different. You are not learning or convincing anyone else. Why do you persist?

Just because you don't have a good argument or don't agree doesn't mean that OP can't make their points. This is a message board where people are supposed to debate and express their thoughts on things after all. You should try it.

This same OP starts dozens of nonsense threads and then argues with everyone until it gets locked or people tire of her. Always some accusation of discrimination and unfairness that makes no sense. My thoughts are that this OP should find a new hobby.

I'm sorry you think it's nonsense to want transparency in the admissions process. It's an exhausting process, and we have the right to know so we don't get so tired applying to all these schools

Stop applying to these schools then, they don’t want you and it makes you tired.

Stop with all of these nonsense threads OP, you are getting nowhere and your signature formula of question about inequality + tireless arguing about your rights + sarcasm toward everyone who disagrees with you = thread getting locked or abandoned. There is a reason people don’t want you in their community

Why do private schools parents get so threatened whenever someone points out something about their system that's not ideal?

It is not ideal for you, but the system works great for others. Your repeated arguments against a system you don’t understand are ineffective and just show your ignorance.

When all you have left are ad hominem attacks, you're losing

Not the PP, but his or her post is pretty much spot on.

Don't like the rules of the game? Don't play.

Admissions decisions are frequently much more subjective than objective and are in response to the many needs of the constituencies on campus. It's a combination of art and science and transparency isn't going to work.

If there is nothing to hide, the best policy is always transparency. As a previous poster mention, the process is draining and if you have information that you don’t satisfy some criteria in advance, you apply for another school. It saves time and energy to everyone.

But the system is indifferent to your time and energy.

The Admissions Department is charged with and measured against generating as many Applications as they can. They try their best not to discourage anyone from applying.

The school wants to select a class from the largest possible pool of applicants.

And it’s also true that early on in the process even they can’t tell what the real odds are that any applicant will be offered Admission. It depends on so many things as they try to construct a class composed of enough full-pays, legacies, athletes, theater kids, academic stars, etc. to make the thing go.

It’s easy to understand why anyone might not want to invest a lot of time and energy in an effort where the odds are against them.

These is one group that might be able to give you your odds, if they are willing to do so. And that’s the HOS at your current school IF the school has a long track record of having students apply to the schools you are interested in. They have the history of acceptances and rejections as a guide and they also know your son or daughter. They could easily guess as to whether they are a shoo-in, a maybe or a low probability. They could —- if they wanted —- even discuss your DC’s chances with the school’s Admissions Department and get a feel.

But that exchange of information could be a two-edged sword for you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In some ways Europe is at a more advanced stage than the US :

https://www.iiep.unesco.org/en/articles/european-countries-step-transparency-education-open-school-data-says-new-council-europe-and-iiep?utm_source=chatgpt.com

Does this discuss private schools in Europe?

Read it and you can tell everyone later.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It doesn’t matter in that it’s a private school that you are applying to that has the right to share however little or much it chooses. They are not receiving any kind of federal funds, so no disclosure requirement.

It would be great if they published data, but they don’t and they won’t. Because their class sizes are so much smaller than even the smallest college, data can be misleading as well.

In a nutshell, they feel like they are doing a good job of building classes. The parents agree enough to keep their kids in the schools. And prospective parents agree enough that most of them have many times the number of applications than they have spots. It’s working for the only constituencies that matter and is unlikely to change.

That is true in theory, except that private schools receive significant tax exemptions. For example, non-profit organizations also receive tax exemptions, but in return they must publicly disclose data about their operations. Likewise, when you rent an apartment, the landlord cannot reject your application based on opaque reasons, and the applicant has the right to ask for and obtain information. How can anyone be protected against racial discrimination in school admissions if the system remains so opaque?

You have made these same comparisons before in other threads, many people have explained why they are different. You are not learning or convincing anyone else. Why do you persist?

Just because you don't have a good argument or don't agree doesn't mean that OP can't make their points. This is a message board where people are supposed to debate and express their thoughts on things after all. You should try it.

This same OP starts dozens of nonsense threads and then argues with everyone until it gets locked or people tire of her. Always some accusation of discrimination and unfairness that makes no sense. My thoughts are that this OP should find a new hobby.

I'm sorry you think it's nonsense to want transparency in the admissions process. It's an exhausting process, and we have the right to know so we don't get so tired applying to all these schools

Stop applying to these schools then, they don’t want you and it makes you tired.

Stop with all of these nonsense threads OP, you are getting nowhere and your signature formula of question about inequality + tireless arguing about your rights + sarcasm toward everyone who disagrees with you = thread getting locked or abandoned. There is a reason people don’t want you in their community

Why do private schools parents get so threatened whenever someone points out something about their system that's not ideal?

It is not ideal for you, but the system works great for others. Your repeated arguments against a system you don’t understand are ineffective and just show your ignorance.

When all you have left are ad hominem attacks, you're losing

Not the PP, but his or her post is pretty much spot on.

Don't like the rules of the game? Don't play.

Admissions decisions are frequently much more subjective than objective and are in response to the many needs of the constituencies on campus. It's a combination of art and science and transparency isn't going to work.

If there is nothing to hide, the best policy is always transparency. As a previous poster mention, the process is draining and if you have information that you don’t satisfy some criteria in advance, you apply for another school. It saves time and energy to everyone.

But the system is indifferent to your time and energy.

The Admissions Department is charged with and measured against generating as many Applications as they can. They try their best not to discourage anyone from applying.

The school wants to select a class from the largest possible pool of applicants.

And it’s also true that early on in the process even they can’t tell what the real odds are that any applicant will be offered Admission. It depends on so many things as they try to construct a class composed of enough full-pays, legacies, athletes, theater kids, academic stars, etc. to make the thing go.

It’s easy to understand why anyone might not want to invest a lot of time and energy in an effort where the odds are against them.

These is one group that might be able to give you your odds, if they are willing to do so. And that’s the HOS at your current school IF the school has a long track record of having students apply to the schools you are interested in. They have the history of acceptances and rejections as a guide and they also know your son or daughter. They could easily guess as to whether they are a shoo-in, a maybe or a low probability. They could —- if they wanted —- even discuss your DC’s chances with the school’s Admissions Department and get a feel.

But that exchange of information could be a two-edged sword for you.

Interesting concept. There could be discrimination in an admission process but there is no chance to check if there are safeguards in the process for discrimination. Legally the system should not be indifferent to discrimination.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Having a child applying to 9th grade , I can see where OP is coming from.

The admissions process is EXHAUSTING for both the parents and the kids. I have literally been to one school FIVE times already for various admissions events (tours, interview, dropping off DC for a shadow day, athletics event, parent coffee...) and that is just ONE school. DC is applying to six schools and this has been like a full time job. They are applying to six schools just to make sure they can get into one because nothing is guaranteed and we have no idea what the schools really want.

I just wish schools would give some loose guidelines as to what they are looking for for me to know if my child even has a shot at that school. That way we don't waste our time or the admissions teams time.

The problem is that I believe that the performance of the admissions team is based on how many applications they get. They have every incentive to encourage you to apply even though they know your child does not stand a chance.

I'm sorry this thread is getting derailed as it is a good topic. We are also applying to private schools and it is taking up most of my non working time, between the visits and shadow days and essays and applications and the test prep. But what are really the chances of being admitted at this or that school? Deep inside I'm aware there must goals the school is looking for in an incoming class, this % for athletes, this % for black students, this % for other non white students, this % for legacies, so does it really mean out of a hypothetical 30 open seats in an expansion year, we're really competing for one of five seats, not 30? Those would be the true odds.

And of course we're always worried whether we're doing enough during the admissions process. Is just filling out the applications fine or do schools still somehow expect more from us without explicitly saying so? Do they keep records of how often we visit the campus? But other than the open house and shadow day, what else is there?

I only figured this out after applying 3 times. Now finally figured out some ideas to improve the chance, but the chances are still extremely low, especially for lower grades. I do wonder if family from American education system or people who themselves went to private school have an advantage as they know how to “talk” or advocate their family better than international ones, besides all the usual hooks.

But my only point is keep trying as there are just not enough spots for all the qualified kids. And there will never be transparent because I imagine the admission is also dynamic.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It doesn’t matter in that it’s a private school that you are applying to that has the right to share however little or much it chooses. They are not receiving any kind of federal funds, so no disclosure requirement.

It would be great if they published data, but they don’t and they won’t. Because their class sizes are so much smaller than even the smallest college, data can be misleading as well.

In a nutshell, they feel like they are doing a good job of building classes. The parents agree enough to keep their kids in the schools. And prospective parents agree enough that most of them have many times the number of applications than they have spots. It’s working for the only constituencies that matter and is unlikely to change.

There are enough private schools to land somewhere. People get upset about being rejected from Sidwell, STA/NCS, GDS, Maret, Potomac, and the more competitive schools then want to demand transparency.

Go where your DC is wanted. Forget the rest

I agree with that. I am not requesting the right of admission, but the right of receiving information, by the way.

You don’t have "the right of receiving information"

Correct, which is why I'm requesting it. Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit I guess

You are requesting the right?

Yes

If you have rights, you don’t have to request them.

What are you asking for?

lol George Wallace has entered the chat

Do you request the right to free speech?

Yes - when it’s being infringed.

Wrong. You demand it.

Went from George Wallace to William Wallace real quick

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It doesn’t matter in that it’s a private school that you are applying to that has the right to share however little or much it chooses. They are not receiving any kind of federal funds, so no disclosure requirement.

It would be great if they published data, but they don’t and they won’t. Because their class sizes are so much smaller than even the smallest college, data can be misleading as well.

In a nutshell, they feel like they are doing a good job of building classes. The parents agree enough to keep their kids in the schools. And prospective parents agree enough that most of them have many times the number of applications than they have spots. It’s working for the only constituencies that matter and is unlikely to change.

That is true in theory, except that private schools receive significant tax exemptions. For example, non-profit organizations also receive tax exemptions, but in return they must publicly disclose data about their operations. Likewise, when you rent an apartment, the landlord cannot reject your application based on opaque reasons, and the applicant has the right to ask for and obtain information. How can anyone be protected against racial discrimination in school admissions if the system remains so opaque?

You have made these same comparisons before in other threads, many people have explained why they are different. You are not learning or convincing anyone else. Why do you persist?

Just because you don't have a good argument or don't agree doesn't mean that OP can't make their points. This is a message board where people are supposed to debate and express their thoughts on things after all. You should try it.

Well, empirically, you don't have the right to know. Keep your kid in public if it's too much to get your head around.

This same OP starts dozens of nonsense threads and then argues with everyone until it gets locked or people tire of her. Always some accusation of discrimination and unfairness that makes no sense. My thoughts are that this OP should find a new hobby.

I'm sorry you think it's nonsense to want transparency in the admissions process. It's an exhausting process, and we have the right to know so we don't get so tired applying to all these schools

[Anonymous]

Some of the schools in my city have earlier deadlines for sibling applications and/or a separate 'play-date' visit day for TK/K Sibling applying. So they have a firm picture of how many are applying and how many are admissible before the general population application deadline - yet they won't share any numbers and have applicants taking off from work & pulling kids out of school to apply for a spot that may not be numerically possible.

[Anonymous]

It's pretty well accepted that admissions rate to the most competitive schools are between 5% and 20% depending on the entry year. Maret has in their school profile that theirs is 12% across the school - likely higher in the lower school and lower in the upper school.

It's reasonable to extrapolate that St. Albans, GDS, NCS, Potomac and Sidwell are roughly roughly roughly in the same general ballpark.

Now that you know that, has it changed your strategy on applying?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Some of the schools in my city have earlier deadlines for sibling applications and/or a separate 'play-date' visit day for TK/K Sibling applying. So they have a firm picture of how many are applying and how many are admissible before the general population application deadline - yet they won't share any numbers and have applicants taking off from work & pulling kids out of school to apply for a spot that may not be numerically possible.

It would be better for everyone to release that information.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Having a child applying to 9th grade , I can see where OP is coming from.

The admissions process is EXHAUSTING for both the parents and the kids. I have literally been to one school FIVE times already for various admissions events (tours, interview, dropping off DC for a shadow day, athletics event, parent coffee...) and that is just ONE school. DC is applying to six schools and this has been like a full time job. They are applying to six schools just to make sure they can get into one because nothing is guaranteed and we have no idea what the schools really want.

I just wish schools would give some loose guidelines as to what they are looking for for me to know if my child even has a shot at that school. That way we don't waste our time or the admissions teams time.

The problem is that I believe that the performance of the admissions team is based on how many applications they get. They have every incentive to encourage you to apply even though they know your child does not stand a chance.

I'm sorry this thread is getting derailed as it is a good topic. We are also applying to private schools and it is taking up most of my non working time, between the visits and shadow days and essays and applications and the test prep. But what are really the chances of being admitted at this or that school? Deep inside I'm aware there must goals the school is looking for in an incoming class, this % for athletes, this % for black students, this % for other non white students, this % for legacies, so does it really mean out of a hypothetical 30 open seats in an expansion year, we're really competing for one of five seats, not 30? Those would be the true odds.

And of course we're always worried whether we're doing enough during the admissions process. Is just filling out the applications fine or do schools still somehow expect more from us without explicitly saying so? Do they keep records of how often we visit the campus? But other than the open house and shadow day, what else is there?

+1 It's so annoying to be spending so much time on something when you don't even know if what you're doing is helping or what the best way to approach it is.

Welcome to the real world. Have you applied college? fellowships? faculty positions?

I was smart enough to avoid academia, so never applied to fellowships or faculty positions. but I did apply to college, yes. And it was great to have tons of data released by the schools I was applying to about average SAT scores, GPA, admissions rates, race breakdowns, geographic breakdowns, etc. Thanks for proving my point that private schools should do the same!

"smart enough to avoid academia" sounds tasteless. Maybe there are more one one way of "being smart"? This attitude won't get you very far.

My point is for any highly competitive school it is not possible to know what criterion they use per cycle because it might be dynamic.
All you have to realize is after legacy, siblings, big donors, athletes, VIPs, music superstars, there are maybe 1 spot left for 30 excellent candidates.
So get use to it? Maybe it is more productive to figure out how to be happy with where your kids can get in.