Is the IB diploma worth it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Reposting due to coding issue.

PP's presumption is that college-level gen eds are equal to APs. That's a judgment error. At a good university they are better (regardless of said university's AP granting policies which can be fairly disconnected from course quality in any direction). Many STEM majors have fumbled while accelerating based on good AP scores.

They are not that different. If UVA is fine with AP Calculus BC and IB HL Math, then I’ll take yes for an answer. In what way do you think the college classes are better? It’s the same syllabus, often the same textbook, exams have comparable difficulty. Some college classes are huge and most interaction is with the TA anyways.

People just invent reasons to believe IB or AP for that matter, confer them some intangible advantage. Most of it is just wishful thinking.

What is your evidence for your presumption?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It makes me sad to think of the kids forced into doing the IB diploma program by their parents who for other reasons don't stand out. So many end up at JMU and VCU with kids who didn't do the IBDP and they wonder why they had a miserable high school experience compared to most of their peers when it didn't really pay off.

My kid did IB and I didn't force him. None of his peers were forced either. The kids who are intelligent and motivated to get into a good college are well aware that IB is a good way to do that if they're at an IB school. Their motivation is internal, not external.

And it did pay off. Those IB kids are at UVA or W&M or great OOS schools, not JMU or VCU.

100%. My daughter knew since middle school she wanted IBDP, and her peers were similarly motivated. She thought ToK was the most engaging class in her hs years. Currently at UVA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:UVA values 4 HS years of a foreign language. At our IB-only school, kids who took the IB classes and better-than-IB stem generally stopped with foreign language in 10th grade. Almost everyone taking IB foreign language was a diploma candidate.

At UVA preference is given to applicants with 2 year of foreign language, 4 years is encouraged, but it’s going to depend on major, stems doesn’t “value” foreign language much. MIT recommends two, Caltech has no requirements. The value of knowing a foreign language besides English is greatly diminished in the age of translation with a click, and I’m saying it as someone who is fluent in three languages.

As another poster mentioned, many kids don’t do the diploma because they’d rather load up on steam instead of foreign language. It doesn’t hurt their admissions chances.

+1

Foreign language requirement is the biggest reason kids opt out of getting the IBDP.

I don't know if that's true, but, I actually wished American schools taught a FL earlier on.

My IBDP DC did Spanish, passed the biliteracy test, and I think it's awesome. They now want to learn my parents' language ( I don't speak it well myself) and have studied some on their own.

My other DC didn't do IBDP and dropped the FL as soon as they could. I understand why they dropped it, but I told them that they would regret not knowing another language later on as an adult. They want to learn my parents' language but they never make any effort to learn it even when I offer.

Learning a FL uses a different part of your brain. I think more kids should learn a FL earlier on.

Put this discussion in the context of IBDP being worth the effort. If you’re not into languages or lack talent, then having to take foreign language for IBDP means a lot of effort for something you don’t care about, potentially tanking your gpa, and the missed opportunity of taking classes that are a better foundation for intended major and career.

Not everyone needs to do a foreign language, who cares what part of the brain is used the end goal is to be a productive member of society, however it gets done. For these students IBDP is not worth it.

Depends on the end goal. It's true that IBDP is not for everyone, but no one can say that it isn't challenging. It's great for critical thinking, analysis and writing.

I have one IBDP kid and one not. The one not would not be able to hack it. My IBDP DC is a dual STEM major.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would not do it just to try to gain an edge in college admissions. If the student is looking for a challenge, wants to improve their writing skills and wants to explore the IB curriculum, then they should do the diploma. I think if they just do it because they think it will help them with college admissions, they're not going to enjoy it.

Yet that's exactly why kids are doing it. The exam results are not that impressive btw

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would not do it just to try to gain an edge in college admissions. If the student is looking for a challenge, wants to improve their writing skills and wants to explore the IB curriculum, then they should do the diploma. I think if they just do it because they think it will help them with college admissions, they're not going to enjoy it.

Yet that's exactly why kids are doing it. The exam results are not that impressive btw

Depends on where you live.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid did full IB. Now at UVA. Classes seemed manageable until the spring of senior year. Then it got stressful, which was unfortunately timed in the context of college admissions all in. By the end of the year, taking 15+ IB exams wasn’t exactly fun. No basis of comparison to say whether the classes and whole environment were more beneficial to my kid. I think time will tell on that.

That's BS. No kid takes 15 IB exams end of senior year. Try again fool

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Isn't there an AP Research seminar course? Is it similar to IBDP's Theory of Knowledge (TOK) class?

I live in the hinterlands. I haven't heard of high schools here offering AP Seminar. Or some of the other new courses (AP Pre-Calc).

My younger child is taking AP classes but there's no unified perspective or method across AP classes. I have a hard time understanding what added value AP Seminar would have compared to TOK.

What unified perspective do you want across APs? They are supposed to be introductory college classes not Unified Theory of Everything. As if IB classes have that feature beyond some empty drivel from marketing materials.

AP Seminar can be taken as English 10, so kids are doing more challenging work early. You may not understand the added value of AP Seminar but many colleges like MIT do and give college credits. Unlike TOK that doesn’t get any.

You're awfully touchy about the value of AP's expansion of their product line. They are clearly trying to push as many courses as possible so that en masse the set more or less becomes a program of study.

DMV goes so hard on this stuff. Until DCUM, I had never even heard of kids self-studying APs when they weren't taking the class at all.

My kid did not take TOK because at our school it's taught before school and he was not getting the diploma. But the kids who took it really found it enriching. And that is the true purpose of advanced high school education. Intellectual development. Not trying to pack in credits so you can go to college for fewer total years. Which itself can be an anti-intellectual decision, even if cost-effective.

The point is to evaluate the worth of the IBDP. AP has something similar with their Capstone, about the same number of kids as IBDP do it, research paper, 3-4 advanced classes.

Nobody in their right mind thinks the Capstone diploma moves the needle on admissions, yet, in this thread people claim IBDP is “well regarded” by AOs, and that it drastically improves odds at top universities. That’s clearly not true.

Let’s not make TOK into something that it’s not, ie intelectual development, advanced high school education, lol at the bold words. If getting general ed classes out of the way is anti-intellectual, then I’m down.

People like AP and IB because they provide rigorous coursework compared to honors and regular classes. How do you know the classes are good? Because a third independent party, colleges, say so in the form of giving credit.

New AP courses like Seminar, and Research, are a step above English 10. I’d rather my kid does Seminar instead of regular classes. I appreciate the fact that 9-10th graders have access to advanced classes, even if less demanding.

When it comes to diploma, IB, AP or even DE with their AA degree, I haven’t seen any evidence it’s better for admissions than the grades received separately for the exams. But I see a lot of parents rationalize it as “my kid did it, it was hard, it must worth something, colleges will love IBDP”.

AP is a walk in the park compared to the full IB. The AP exams are Mickey-Mouse against the IB exams and demands of the full IB. My kid did both.

You’re just proving my point, your argument is just “my kid did it, it’s good”. Most colleges give the same credit to AP and IB classes, so I’d rather go by that objective measure instead of your subjective anecdote. I get you’re a proud parent but don’t get carried away thinking the path your kid took is the only one worth taking.

dp. AP writing is nothing compared to IB writing requirements. That said, IBDP is not for everyone. It does require a lot more work.

In what sense and what class? Can you give specifics on how the IB writing requirements are better? There’s a lot of writing in AP English and History, essays due every week. I’m having a hard time believing the IB class is so much better, yet colleges don’t seem to see it that way.

You are having a hard time for a reason. Because it is not "so much better."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would not do it just to try to gain an edge in college admissions. If the student is looking for a challenge, wants to improve their writing skills and wants to explore the IB curriculum, then they should do the diploma. I think if they just do it because they think it will help them with college admissions, they're not going to enjoy it.

Yet that's exactly why kids are doing it. The exam results are not that impressive btw

For what? To end up at college with loads of students that thrived in the IB program even if you hated it? The workload and the stress does not get any lighter in college. It increases.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UVA values 4 HS years of a foreign language. At our IB-only school, kids who took the IB classes and better-than-IB stem generally stopped with foreign language in 10th grade. Almost everyone taking IB foreign language was a diploma candidate.

At UVA preference is given to applicants with 2 year of foreign language, 4 years is encouraged, but it’s going to depend on major, stems doesn’t “value” foreign language much. MIT recommends two, Caltech has no requirements. The value of knowing a foreign language besides English is greatly diminished in the age of translation with a click, and I’m saying it as someone who is fluent in three languages.

As another poster mentioned, many kids don’t do the diploma because they’d rather load up on steam instead of foreign language. It doesn’t hurt their admissions chances.

+1

Foreign language requirement is the biggest reason kids opt out of getting the IBDP.

+ A million
Typically the students getting full (DP) is because they may want to go to college in a different country that places value in this type of rigor [i][u]. UK likes AP. America likes AP. The rest of the world likes IB.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It makes me sad to think of the kids forced into doing the IB diploma program by their parents who for other reasons don't stand out. So many end up at JMU and VCU with kids who didn't do the IBDP and they wonder why they had a miserable high school experience compared to most of their peers when it didn't really pay off.

My kid did IB and I didn't force him. None of his peers were forced either. The kids who are intelligent and motivated to get into a good college are well aware that IB is a good way to do that if they're at an IB school. Their motivation is internal, not external.

And it did pay off. Those IB kids are at UVA or W&M or great OOS schools, not JMU or VCU.

100%. My daughter knew since middle school she wanted IBDP, and her peers were similarly motivated. She thought ToK was the most engaging class in her hs years. Currently at UVA.

+1
Depends on teacher
Guidelines directions not clear for doing research, classes prior to IBDP does not prep students well

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UVA values 4 HS years of a foreign language. At our IB-only school, kids who took the IB classes and better-than-IB stem generally stopped with foreign language in 10th grade. Almost everyone taking IB foreign language was a diploma candidate.

At UVA preference is given to applicants with 2 year of foreign language, 4 years is encouraged, but it’s going to depend on major, stems doesn’t “value” foreign language much. MIT recommends two, Caltech has no requirements. The value of knowing a foreign language besides English is greatly diminished in the age of translation with a click, and I’m saying it as someone who is fluent in three languages.

As another poster mentioned, many kids don’t do the diploma because they’d rather load up on steam instead of foreign language. It doesn’t hurt their admissions chances.

+1

Foreign language requirement is the biggest reason kids opt out of getting the IBDP.

I don't know if that's true, but, I actually wished American schools taught a FL earlier on.

My IBDP DC did Spanish, passed the biliteracy test, and I think it's awesome. They now want to learn my parents' language ( I don't speak it well myself) and have studied some on their own.

My other DC didn't do IBDP and dropped the FL as soon as they could. I understand why they dropped it, but I told them that they would regret not knowing another language later on as an adult. They want to learn my parents' language but they never make any effort to learn it even when I offer.

Learning a FL uses a different part of your brain. I think more kids should learn a FL earlier on.

Put this discussion in the context of IBDP being worth the effort. If you’re not into languages or lack talent, then having to take foreign language for IBDP means a lot of effort for something you don’t care about, potentially tanking your gpa, and the missed opportunity of taking classes that are a better foundation for intended major and career.

Not everyone needs to do a foreign language, who cares what part of the brain is used the end goal is to be a productive member of society, however it gets done. For these students IBDP is not worth it.

Depends on the end goal. It's true that IBDP is not for everyone, but no one can say that it isn't challenging. It's great for critical thinking, analysis and writing.

I have one IBDP kid and one not. The one not would not be able to hack it. My IBDP DC is a dual STEM major.

Nope. That is not true. There is no time for actual critical thinking, analysis and writing. "Get it done get it done." time management.

[Anonymous]

Do UK schools accept ACT/SAT in lieu of AP or IB, or do you need both? Do you need to report everything your student ever took, such as SAT, ACT and all APs?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UVA values 4 HS years of a foreign language. At our IB-only school, kids who took the IB classes and better-than-IB stem generally stopped with foreign language in 10th grade. Almost everyone taking IB foreign language was a diploma candidate.

At UVA preference is given to applicants with 2 year of foreign language, 4 years is encouraged, but it’s going to depend on major, stems doesn’t “value” foreign language much. MIT recommends two, Caltech has no requirements. The value of knowing a foreign language besides English is greatly diminished in the age of translation with a click, and I’m saying it as someone who is fluent in three languages.

As another poster mentioned, many kids don’t do the diploma because they’d rather load up on steam instead of foreign language. It doesn’t hurt their admissions chances.

+1

Foreign language requirement is the biggest reason kids opt out of getting the IBDP.

I don't know if that's true, but, I actually wished American schools taught a FL earlier on.

My IBDP DC did Spanish, passed the biliteracy test, and I think it's awesome. They now want to learn my parents' language ( I don't speak it well myself) and have studied some on their own.

My other DC didn't do IBDP and dropped the FL as soon as they could. I understand why they dropped it, but I told them that they would regret not knowing another language later on as an adult. They want to learn my parents' language but they never make any effort to learn it even when I offer.

Learning a FL uses a different part of your brain. I think more kids should learn a FL earlier on.

Put this discussion in the context of IBDP being worth the effort. If you’re not into languages or lack talent, then having to take foreign language for IBDP means a lot of effort for something you don’t care about, potentially tanking your gpa, and the missed opportunity of taking classes that are a better foundation for intended major and career.

Not everyone needs to do a foreign language, who cares what part of the brain is used the end goal is to be a productive member of society, however it gets done. For these students IBDP is not worth it.

Depends on the end goal. It's true that IBDP is not for everyone, but no one can say that it isn't challenging. It's great for critical thinking, analysis and writing.

I have one IBDP kid and one not. The one not would not be able to hack it. My IBDP DC is a dual STEM major.

Nope. That is not true. There is no time for actual critical thinking, analysis and writing. "Get it done get it done." time management.

There are only 24 hours in a day. It is fine for there to be academic programs for students that want to invest a lot of time. And it is fine for students that want to invest their time in other pursuits then such a heavy academic load to do so. The IB is a good fit for some students but not all students.

[Anonymous]

For all the talk about how AOs are impressed by IBDP and the very challenging work, most admission results from IB schools are underwhelming, in particular for IB only schools. Some kids from IB magnet do fine, but even there, kids with 4.0 UW GPA, Multivariable, and an assortment of IB and AP classes, end up at UMD in the end. Maybe they weren’t stellar to begin with, but it just feels they would have done better in other settings.

Their mom comes back to report they were “well prepared for college” and “college was easy by comparison”. It’s UMD, and most kids of that caliber end up at more competitive colleges to begin with, where they’re challenged.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:UVA values 4 HS years of a foreign language. At our IB-only school, kids who took the IB classes and better-than-IB stem generally stopped with foreign language in 10th grade. Almost everyone taking IB foreign language was a diploma candidate.

At UVA preference is given to applicants with 2 year of foreign language, 4 years is encouraged, but it’s going to depend on major, stems doesn’t “value” foreign language much. MIT recommends two, Caltech has no requirements. The value of knowing a foreign language besides English is greatly diminished in the age of translation with a click, and I’m saying it as someone who is fluent in three languages.

As another poster mentioned, many kids don’t do the diploma because they’d rather load up on steam instead of foreign language. It doesn’t hurt their admissions chances.

+1

Foreign language requirement is the biggest reason kids opt out of getting the IBDP.

I don't know if that's true, but, I actually wished American schools taught a FL earlier on.

My IBDP DC did Spanish, passed the biliteracy test, and I think it's awesome. They now want to learn my parents' language ( I don't speak it well myself) and have studied some on their own.

My other DC didn't do IBDP and dropped the FL as soon as they could. I understand why they dropped it, but I told them that they would regret not knowing another language later on as an adult. They want to learn my parents' language but they never make any effort to learn it even when I offer.

Learning a FL uses a different part of your brain. I think more kids should learn a FL earlier on.

Put this discussion in the context of IBDP being worth the effort. If you’re not into languages or lack talent, then having to take foreign language for IBDP means a lot of effort for something you don’t care about, potentially tanking your gpa, and the missed opportunity of taking classes that are a better foundation for intended major and career.

Not everyone needs to do a foreign language, who cares what part of the brain is used the end goal is to be a productive member of society, however it gets done. For these students IBDP is not worth it.

Depends on the end goal. It's true that IBDP is not for everyone, but no one can say that it isn't challenging. It's great for critical thinking, analysis and writing.

I have one IBDP kid and one not. The one not would not be able to hack it. My IBDP DC is a dual STEM major.

Nope. That is not true. There is no time for actual critical thinking, analysis and writing. "Get it done get it done." time management.

Not necessarily, some schools make it unnecessarily rigorous, others easily manageable but there are places implementing it right to balance the rigor and the high school experience.